If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#91
|
|||
|
|||
Defrag problems
"Aster" wrote in message
... snip Also, according to microsoft, the volume must have at least 15 percent free space for Defrag to completely and adequately defragment it. Defrag uses this space as a sorting area for file fragments. If a volume has less than 15 percent free space, Defrag only partially defragments it. So, if my 20Gb hard drive has only 1.53Gb free space and I have performed defrag, my volume has been just partially defragmented? Partial defragging probably means that free space was not consolidated. In other words, files are no longer fragmented, but free space is. This might mean that the disk becomes fragmented more quickly as you use it. However partial might also mean that larger files were skipped, or were consolidated into a small number of large fragments rather than being fully defragged. |
#92
|
|||
|
|||
Defrag problems
"Jim" wrote in message
... Hi Glen, I know you are long since past this post, but I was curious about why this is so concerning the rearranging of the frequently used programs. Also, is this why ZA firewall and other running programs often must be dropped in order to defrag the HDD? Does this speed up the defrag process without loss of purpose? Does this apply to the win98se defrag program? I don't think this has anything to do with the need to stop other programs running while you defrag - files that are in use will not be moved. The problem with the feature is that it slows down the defrag process considerably. Turning it off makes the defrag run a lot faster. The benefit of the re-arrangment is very limited, and not really worth the extra trouble it makes for defragging. Also, it tends to make changes that are probably unnecessary - you can run defrag two times in close succession and programs will still be shuffled around. That tells me that the re-arranging is somewhat arbitrary. My recomendation is to run it with the option turned on no more than once every siz months, but in practice I find that I leave the option permanently turned off. |
#93
|
|||
|
|||
Defrag problems
"Jim" wrote in message
... Hi Glen, I know you are long since past this post, but I was curious about why this is so concerning the rearranging of the frequently used programs. Also, is this why ZA firewall and other running programs often must be dropped in order to defrag the HDD? Does this speed up the defrag process without loss of purpose? Does this apply to the win98se defrag program? I don't think this has anything to do with the need to stop other programs running while you defrag - files that are in use will not be moved. The problem with the feature is that it slows down the defrag process considerably. Turning it off makes the defrag run a lot faster. The benefit of the re-arrangment is very limited, and not really worth the extra trouble it makes for defragging. Also, it tends to make changes that are probably unnecessary - you can run defrag two times in close succession and programs will still be shuffled around. That tells me that the re-arranging is somewhat arbitrary. My recomendation is to run it with the option turned on no more than once every siz months, but in practice I find that I leave the option permanently turned off. |
#94
|
|||
|
|||
Defrag problems
Jeff Richards wrote:
"Jim" wrote in message ... Hi Glen, I know you are long since past this post, but I was curious about why this is so concerning the rearranging of the frequently used programs. Also, is this why ZA firewall and other running programs often must be dropped in order to defrag the HDD? Does this speed up the defrag process without loss of purpose? Does this apply to the win98se defrag program? I don't think this has anything to do with the need to stop other programs running while you defrag - files that are in use will not be moved. Somewhat relatedly I have noticed that when I run Defrag it sometimes gets interrupted and has to restart again (even w/o me doing anything). Perhaps ZA firewall interrupts it more than others. I don't think it takes much to interrupt Defrag, however, as I don't have ZA, and more often than not, when I use Defrag (even using WinME defrag), it goes for so long, and then restarts. Evidently if something is in any way accessing the disk during the time its defragging, it may need to restart. |
#95
|
|||
|
|||
Defrag problems
Jeff Richards wrote:
"Jim" wrote in message ... Hi Glen, I know you are long since past this post, but I was curious about why this is so concerning the rearranging of the frequently used programs. Also, is this why ZA firewall and other running programs often must be dropped in order to defrag the HDD? Does this speed up the defrag process without loss of purpose? Does this apply to the win98se defrag program? I don't think this has anything to do with the need to stop other programs running while you defrag - files that are in use will not be moved. Somewhat relatedly I have noticed that when I run Defrag it sometimes gets interrupted and has to restart again (even w/o me doing anything). Perhaps ZA firewall interrupts it more than others. I don't think it takes much to interrupt Defrag, however, as I don't have ZA, and more often than not, when I use Defrag (even using WinME defrag), it goes for so long, and then restarts. Evidently if something is in any way accessing the disk during the time its defragging, it may need to restart. |
#96
|
|||
|
|||
Defrag problems
"MEB" wrote in message ... On 01/08/2010 06:42 AM, Aster wrote: "Bill Blanton" wrote in message ... On 1/6/2010 05:47, Aster wrote: Also, according to microsoft, the volume must have at least 15 percent free space for Defrag to completely and adequately defragment it. Defrag uses this space as a sorting area for file fragments. If a volume has less than 15 percent free space, Defrag only partially defragments it. So, if my 20Gb hard drive has only 1.53Gb free space and I have performed defrag, my volume has been just partially defragmented? If you only have 1.5GB free it's either time to move some data off, or buy another drive. If you're thinking that defrag is going to speed up your system considerably, it won't. Far better to look at what processes are running in the background. It was mentioned that Scandisk reported bad clusters. In that case stay away from any defrag utility. Defrag is for healthy disks. --------------- still not clear, has been my volume fully defragged, or just some partially? Canno check this, since there is no 'Analyze' disk option, like win XP has. Uhm, here's what I found in Win9X in similar situations: 1. *IF* I had *disabled virtual memory* and thereby deleted the swap file upon re-boot before the scandisk/defrag, then yes, during the first run, though it took even longer. This frees up MORE space, though it can only be done on computers in which there is sufficient memory and limited background apps. The reason is to place the swap in contiguous blocks rather than scattered around the disk, and the extra time comes from moving all those files to fill in the now blanked/freed areas. The swap is then placed at the end of the used file area when re-enabled. The warning you refer to [15%] comes from the necessity to ensure there IS available swap space/area sufficient to run "not only" scandisk/defrag, but also for large and/or numerous applications being run and being swapped, *particularly* if you have not disabled what you can for the scandisk/defrag operations [hence why it is recommended to limit these background applications during the activities]. A. *IF* you have lots of memory, then you can limit the swap to a small area (or disable it) and *force* Windows to use physical memory instead. 2. *IF* leaving memory control in the hands of Windows during scandisk/defrag, then expect it will constantly warn about disk changes, at least until you tell it not to warn you again. Also note: A. you haven't really defragmented the disk completely/thoroughly [due to the non-contiguous swap areas]; 1. this is fine for normal usage, however, it is good idea to do a *thorough* scandisk and defrag on your disk(s) "every once in awhile" [depending upon your usage and/or needs]. 3. Remember, many application's files may expand during usage so the defrag actually only lasts for a relatively short time period as these are moved around the disk to free areas, leaving small previously claimed "file" areas as freed, which may be filled in with smaller files from other applications or otherwise (as in parts of files or similar) starting the fragmentation process again. 4. *IF* installing and un-installing are part of your normal usage, EXPECT the disk to be severely fragmented. The systems being used in this fashion REQUIRE scandisk and defrag or other disk maintenance tools be used more frequently. -- MEB http://peoplescounsel.org/ref/windows-main.htm Windows Info, Diagnostics, Security, Networking http://peoplescounsel.org The "real world" of Law, Justice, and Government --------------- How to disable virtual memory? Aster |
#97
|
|||
|
|||
Defrag problems
"MEB" wrote in message ... On 01/08/2010 06:42 AM, Aster wrote: "Bill Blanton" wrote in message ... On 1/6/2010 05:47, Aster wrote: Also, according to microsoft, the volume must have at least 15 percent free space for Defrag to completely and adequately defragment it. Defrag uses this space as a sorting area for file fragments. If a volume has less than 15 percent free space, Defrag only partially defragments it. So, if my 20Gb hard drive has only 1.53Gb free space and I have performed defrag, my volume has been just partially defragmented? If you only have 1.5GB free it's either time to move some data off, or buy another drive. If you're thinking that defrag is going to speed up your system considerably, it won't. Far better to look at what processes are running in the background. It was mentioned that Scandisk reported bad clusters. In that case stay away from any defrag utility. Defrag is for healthy disks. --------------- still not clear, has been my volume fully defragged, or just some partially? Canno check this, since there is no 'Analyze' disk option, like win XP has. Uhm, here's what I found in Win9X in similar situations: 1. *IF* I had *disabled virtual memory* and thereby deleted the swap file upon re-boot before the scandisk/defrag, then yes, during the first run, though it took even longer. This frees up MORE space, though it can only be done on computers in which there is sufficient memory and limited background apps. The reason is to place the swap in contiguous blocks rather than scattered around the disk, and the extra time comes from moving all those files to fill in the now blanked/freed areas. The swap is then placed at the end of the used file area when re-enabled. The warning you refer to [15%] comes from the necessity to ensure there IS available swap space/area sufficient to run "not only" scandisk/defrag, but also for large and/or numerous applications being run and being swapped, *particularly* if you have not disabled what you can for the scandisk/defrag operations [hence why it is recommended to limit these background applications during the activities]. A. *IF* you have lots of memory, then you can limit the swap to a small area (or disable it) and *force* Windows to use physical memory instead. 2. *IF* leaving memory control in the hands of Windows during scandisk/defrag, then expect it will constantly warn about disk changes, at least until you tell it not to warn you again. Also note: A. you haven't really defragmented the disk completely/thoroughly [due to the non-contiguous swap areas]; 1. this is fine for normal usage, however, it is good idea to do a *thorough* scandisk and defrag on your disk(s) "every once in awhile" [depending upon your usage and/or needs]. 3. Remember, many application's files may expand during usage so the defrag actually only lasts for a relatively short time period as these are moved around the disk to free areas, leaving small previously claimed "file" areas as freed, which may be filled in with smaller files from other applications or otherwise (as in parts of files or similar) starting the fragmentation process again. 4. *IF* installing and un-installing are part of your normal usage, EXPECT the disk to be severely fragmented. The systems being used in this fashion REQUIRE scandisk and defrag or other disk maintenance tools be used more frequently. -- MEB http://peoplescounsel.org/ref/windows-main.htm Windows Info, Diagnostics, Security, Networking http://peoplescounsel.org The "real world" of Law, Justice, and Government --------------- How to disable virtual memory? Aster |
#98
|
|||
|
|||
Defrag problems
"Jeff Richards" wrote in message ... I don't think Scandisk Thorough is worth bothering with at all. It stresses the hard disk, without really giving you much feedback about what it found or fixed. A good hard disk drive diagnostic will provide much more useful information about the state of your drive without significantly more stress. You should run it whenever you suspect problem, but if everything seems OK, I guess about every six months is a reasonable compromise. -- Jeff Richards ---------------------------------------- "Aster" wrote in message ... snip As I told, defragging works and I managed to defrag disk from Safe mode. Also: does is make sense run Thorough Scandisk test if Standard test is OK? ----------- Is there good hard disk diagnostic utility without stressing harddrive? |
#99
|
|||
|
|||
Defrag problems
On 01/12/2010 06:21 AM, Aster wrote:
"MEB" wrote in message ... On 01/08/2010 06:42 AM, Aster wrote: "Bill Blanton" wrote in message ... On 1/6/2010 05:47, Aster wrote: Also, according to microsoft, the volume must have at least 15 percent free space for Defrag to completely and adequately defragment it. Defrag uses this space as a sorting area for file fragments. If a volume has less than 15 percent free space, Defrag only partially defragments it. So, if my 20Gb hard drive has only 1.53Gb free space and I have performed defrag, my volume has been just partially defragmented? If you only have 1.5GB free it's either time to move some data off, or buy another drive. If you're thinking that defrag is going to speed up your system considerably, it won't. Far better to look at what processes are running in the background. It was mentioned that Scandisk reported bad clusters. In that case stay away from any defrag utility. Defrag is for healthy disks. --------------- still not clear, has been my volume fully defragged, or just some partially? Canno check this, since there is no 'Analyze' disk option, like win XP has. Uhm, here's what I found in Win9X in similar situations: 1. *IF* I had *disabled virtual memory* and thereby deleted the swap file upon re-boot before the scandisk/defrag, then yes, during the first run, though it took even longer. This frees up MORE space, though it can only be done on computers in which there is sufficient memory and limited background apps. The reason is to place the swap in contiguous blocks rather than scattered around the disk, and the extra time comes from moving all those files to fill in the now blanked/freed areas. The swap is then placed at the end of the used file area when re-enabled. The warning you refer to [15%] comes from the necessity to ensure there IS available swap space/area sufficient to run "not only" scandisk/defrag, but also for large and/or numerous applications being run and being swapped, *particularly* if you have not disabled what you can for the scandisk/defrag operations [hence why it is recommended to limit these background applications during the activities]. A. *IF* you have lots of memory, then you can limit the swap to a small area (or disable it) and *force* Windows to use physical memory instead. 2. *IF* leaving memory control in the hands of Windows during scandisk/defrag, then expect it will constantly warn about disk changes, at least until you tell it not to warn you again. Also note: A. you haven't really defragmented the disk completely/thoroughly [due to the non-contiguous swap areas]; 1. this is fine for normal usage, however, it is good idea to do a *thorough* scandisk and defrag on your disk(s) "every once in awhile" [depending upon your usage and/or needs]. 3. Remember, many application's files may expand during usage so the defrag actually only lasts for a relatively short time period as these are moved around the disk to free areas, leaving small previously claimed "file" areas as freed, which may be filled in with smaller files from other applications or otherwise (as in parts of files or similar) starting the fragmentation process again. 4. *IF* installing and un-installing are part of your normal usage, EXPECT the disk to be severely fragmented. The systems being used in this fashion REQUIRE scandisk and defrag or other disk maintenance tools be used more frequently. -- MEB How to disable virtual memory? Aster Control Panel - System - Performance - Remember you MUST have sufficient memory installed AND you need to stop as many startup programs, power management, screen savers, etc., as possible to ensure there is no disk activity other than from scandisk/defrag, and which would require swap access. Alternatively, *IF* you have sufficient physical memory, then you could create a ram drive and place a small manually configured swap area there. I always use sysinternals' AUTORUNS to disable whatever programs from starting. NOTE though, that you must be careful about what you disable as a large percentage of the shown are part of the required system internal [hence sysinternals] workings and disabling them can stop Windows from loading at all. -- MEB http://peoplescounsel.org/ref/windows-main.htm Windows Info, Diagnostics, Security, Networking http://peoplescounsel.org The "real world" of Law, Justice, and Government ___--- |
#100
|
|||
|
|||
Defrag problems
On 01/12/2010 06:21 AM, Aster wrote:
"MEB" wrote in message ... On 01/08/2010 06:42 AM, Aster wrote: "Bill Blanton" wrote in message ... On 1/6/2010 05:47, Aster wrote: Also, according to microsoft, the volume must have at least 15 percent free space for Defrag to completely and adequately defragment it. Defrag uses this space as a sorting area for file fragments. If a volume has less than 15 percent free space, Defrag only partially defragments it. So, if my 20Gb hard drive has only 1.53Gb free space and I have performed defrag, my volume has been just partially defragmented? If you only have 1.5GB free it's either time to move some data off, or buy another drive. If you're thinking that defrag is going to speed up your system considerably, it won't. Far better to look at what processes are running in the background. It was mentioned that Scandisk reported bad clusters. In that case stay away from any defrag utility. Defrag is for healthy disks. --------------- still not clear, has been my volume fully defragged, or just some partially? Canno check this, since there is no 'Analyze' disk option, like win XP has. Uhm, here's what I found in Win9X in similar situations: 1. *IF* I had *disabled virtual memory* and thereby deleted the swap file upon re-boot before the scandisk/defrag, then yes, during the first run, though it took even longer. This frees up MORE space, though it can only be done on computers in which there is sufficient memory and limited background apps. The reason is to place the swap in contiguous blocks rather than scattered around the disk, and the extra time comes from moving all those files to fill in the now blanked/freed areas. The swap is then placed at the end of the used file area when re-enabled. The warning you refer to [15%] comes from the necessity to ensure there IS available swap space/area sufficient to run "not only" scandisk/defrag, but also for large and/or numerous applications being run and being swapped, *particularly* if you have not disabled what you can for the scandisk/defrag operations [hence why it is recommended to limit these background applications during the activities]. A. *IF* you have lots of memory, then you can limit the swap to a small area (or disable it) and *force* Windows to use physical memory instead. 2. *IF* leaving memory control in the hands of Windows during scandisk/defrag, then expect it will constantly warn about disk changes, at least until you tell it not to warn you again. Also note: A. you haven't really defragmented the disk completely/thoroughly [due to the non-contiguous swap areas]; 1. this is fine for normal usage, however, it is good idea to do a *thorough* scandisk and defrag on your disk(s) "every once in awhile" [depending upon your usage and/or needs]. 3. Remember, many application's files may expand during usage so the defrag actually only lasts for a relatively short time period as these are moved around the disk to free areas, leaving small previously claimed "file" areas as freed, which may be filled in with smaller files from other applications or otherwise (as in parts of files or similar) starting the fragmentation process again. 4. *IF* installing and un-installing are part of your normal usage, EXPECT the disk to be severely fragmented. The systems being used in this fashion REQUIRE scandisk and defrag or other disk maintenance tools be used more frequently. -- MEB How to disable virtual memory? Aster Control Panel - System - Performance - Remember you MUST have sufficient memory installed AND you need to stop as many startup programs, power management, screen savers, etc., as possible to ensure there is no disk activity other than from scandisk/defrag, and which would require swap access. Alternatively, *IF* you have sufficient physical memory, then you could create a ram drive and place a small manually configured swap area there. I always use sysinternals' AUTORUNS to disable whatever programs from starting. NOTE though, that you must be careful about what you disable as a large percentage of the shown are part of the required system internal [hence sysinternals] workings and disabling them can stop Windows from loading at all. -- MEB http://peoplescounsel.org/ref/windows-main.htm Windows Info, Diagnostics, Security, Networking http://peoplescounsel.org The "real world" of Law, Justice, and Government ___--- |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
anyone else had problems with defrag on ME | Rocky T Squirrel | General | 10 | January 17th 07 03:00 PM |
problems with defrag | ØR | Disk Drives | 1 | September 2nd 05 05:21 PM |
Defrag Problems | Lennie | General | 5 | July 10th 04 12:17 AM |
Defrag Problems | Lennie | Software & Applications | 1 | July 7th 04 10:58 PM |
Defrag problems | Lennie | General | 1 | July 7th 04 01:47 AM |