A Windows 98 & ME forum. Win98banter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » Win98banter forum » Windows 98 » General
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Wextech Papertrail (Or other HLP file disassembler.)



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old February 11th 12, 02:00 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
Bill in Co
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 701
Default Wextech Papertrail (Or other HLP file disassembler.)

Lostgallifreyan wrote:
"Bill in Co" wrote in
:

I just opened a .HLP file in Quick View Plus, where one can do a select
all and copy operation, and then paste that mess into a text editor, and
then filter it, but this is admitedly pretty primitive. I guess if one
were really desperate to get at least some text out of the .HLP file, it
could work in a pinch, however. :-)




Did you see my answer? I posted a way to do it based on stuff Franc Zabkar
posted. There is no way a human can copy/paste the file I was working on.
A
1.2 GHz machine took nearly twenty minutes of processing time all in. If
I'd
had to do it by hand I'd have died of old age long before I'd got around
to
analysing the linkage I wanted.


Sorry, I think I was asleep at the switch. :-(
And the .HLP files I was thinking of were pretty tiny in size to begin with.


  #12  
Old February 11th 12, 03:58 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
Lostgallifreyan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,562
Default Wextech Papertrail (Or other HLP file disassembler.)

"Bill in Co" wrote in
m:

Sorry, I think I was asleep at the switch. :-(


It happens. I was asleep at it most of the evening... I figured out file
creation in W98 with C, from the API, but not before I asked someone. He
pointed me right back to the API.... I got there. In the end...

Sometimes I wish someone would just give me the answer. I would if asked.
Saves time letting them hang themselves reaching for un-needed complexity, or
wondering if a thing ever worked right. As a kid I learned best from breaking
stuff, but I only learned a lot fast if it worked in the first place. That's
a hell of a motivator, especially when the stuff wasn't mine because the
sooner I fixed it, the less trouble I'd be in.

Re HLP files, I agree, most of them ARE tiny. I wasn't prepared for 20 MB.
  #13  
Old February 11th 12, 05:26 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
Franc Zabkar
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 1,702
Default Wextech Papertrail (Or other HLP file disassembler.)

On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 10:29:05 -0600, Lostgallifreyan
put finger to keyboard and composed:

Franc, did you get any good CHM-maker?


I can't recall exactly what I did, but my requirements weren't
particularly special. IIRC, I merely decompiled the HLP file,
translated the Russian text, and then recompiled the result. I didn't
go any deeper than that.

In any case it appears that you've sorted yourself out. :-)

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
  #14  
Old February 11th 12, 05:50 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
Lostgallifreyan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,562
Default Wextech Papertrail (Or other HLP file disassembler.)

Franc Zabkar wrote in
:

I can't recall exactly what I did, but my requirements weren't
particularly special. IIRC, I merely decompiled the HLP file,
translated the Russian text, and then recompiled the result. I didn't
go any deeper than that.

In any case it appears that you've sorted yourself out. :-)



Yep, thanks, your suggestions were spot on, made short work of finding the
end of the trail.
  #15  
Old February 11th 12, 03:06 PM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
J. P. Gilliver (John)
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 1,554
Default Wextech Papertrail (Or other HLP file disassembler.)

In message ,
Lostgallifreyan writes:
"Bill in Co" wrote in
om:

[]
Sometimes I wish someone would just give me the answer. I would if asked.
Saves time letting them hang themselves reaching for un-needed complexity, or
wondering if a thing ever worked right. As a kid I learned best from breaking


Any good teacher will say it's better to guide you until you find the
answer for yourself; you'll be much more satisfied, and know _why_ it's
the answer as well as just what the answer is.

stuff, but I only learned a lot fast if it worked in the first place. That's
a hell of a motivator, especially when the stuff wasn't mine because the
sooner I fixed it, the less trouble I'd be in.


(-:

Re HLP files, I agree, most of them ARE tiny. I wasn't prepared for 20 MB.


(That's a minor novel - or did it include some images?)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The reason for the oil shortage: nobody remembered to check the oil levels. Our
oil is located in the North Sea but our dip-sticks are located in Westminster.
(or Texas and Washington etc. - adjust as necessary!)
  #16  
Old February 11th 12, 04:12 PM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
Lostgallifreyan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,562
Default Wextech Papertrail (Or other HLP file disassembler.)

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in
:

Sometimes I wish someone would just give me the answer. I would if
asked. Saves time letting them hang themselves reaching for un-needed
complexity, or wondering if a thing ever worked right. As a kid I
learned best from breaking


Any good teacher will say it's better to guide you until you find the
answer for yourself; you'll be much more satisfied, and know _why_ it's
the answer as well as just what the answer is.


That's true, but takes time. Coders seem to dislike spending time on anything
other than their work, even when willing to help, so will usually give a
terse collection of function details, arguments for them, etc. (And
occasionally, RT(F)M should be taken to mean 'I don't know, and don't want to
admit it or spend time discussing it'). I recently got the impression that
coders who use C++ may not even know how to open a file in ANSI C.

The API references usually just give the calls in an abstracted manner, parts
to assemble, without working context. The wxWidgets guide goes further, it
does exactly this too, but almost always gives a short example of actual code
where you can see contexts like path specifiers to file-open type functions,
stuff that may not be explained otherwise, or known to the newcomer who looks
at the documentation. By running the example, more useful deductions can be
made, and even on the page, it's more self-explanatory.

I remember that the 'worked example' was a major part of even the driest
textbooks from schools in the last quarter of the last century, the idea
being that study of it would show one context, and the aim being to
understand how to modify it to fit others.

People now seem to think that asking for this is asking for fish when we
should learn to fish. It's not, it's like asking for a working fishing rod.
Which is reasonable, If we break it, we learn more than if we never see it
work to start with. In a situation where teachers are at hand (most coders
probably had good teachers, maybe went to universities too) there are people
to call on regularly for help. Fortunately the wxWidgets CHM manual doesn't
assume this. It's much more aimed at people from independent situations who
need to code to solve a problem, rather than those who are part of an
academic network.

I think the reason why that method is lacking in older API references may be
because when the MSDN network was new, the assumption was that coders would
get together and ask each other. When that happens, people don't think to log
working details as if the supply will dry up otherwise, let alone organise a
coherent record fit to publish. Stuff like that usually came out of book
shops. I remember that a reduced set of that MSDN stuff was released on
multiple CD's but it was a rambling set of disparate output, far from the
organised publication that wxWidgets manuals are. But we do at least HAVE a
Win32API reference, which counts for a lot.

stuff, but I only learned a lot fast if it worked in the first place.
That's a hell of a motivator, especially when the stuff wasn't mine
because the sooner I fixed it, the less trouble I'd be in.


(-:


The lessons were memorable.


Re HLP files, I agree, most of them ARE tiny. I wasn't prepared for 20
MB.


(That's a minor novel - or did it include some images?)


It did, but not many (and most of them tiny). Even novels are fairly small. A
scan of The Time Machine (H.G. Wells) is less than 0.5 MB in DOC format, and
90.5KB zipped. If it were plain text it would be smaller. This API reference
is nearly 60MB when fully unpacked and converted to either RTF with images,
or HTML. (Actually I keep wondering if stuff got left out, in that 7MB CHM.
Looks complete though, as far as I can tell).
  #17  
Old February 11th 12, 04:30 PM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
J. P. Gilliver (John)
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 1,554
Default Wextech Papertrail (Or other HLP file disassembler.)

In message ,
Lostgallifreyan writes:
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in
:

Sometimes I wish someone would just give me the answer. I would if
asked. Saves time letting them hang themselves reaching for un-needed
complexity, or wondering if a thing ever worked right. As a kid I
learned best from breaking


Any good teacher will say it's better to guide you until you find the
answer for yourself; you'll be much more satisfied, and know _why_ it's
the answer as well as just what the answer is.


That's true, but takes time. Coders seem to dislike spending time on anything
other than their work, even when willing to help, so will usually give a
terse collection of function details, arguments for them, etc. (And
occasionally, RT(F)M should be taken to mean 'I don't know, and don't want to
admit it or spend time discussing it'). I recently got the impression that


(-: indeed!

coders who use C++ may not even know how to open a file in ANSI C.

The API references usually just give the calls in an abstracted manner, parts
to assemble, without working context. The wxWidgets guide goes further, it


Yes. I remember a DOS C compiler/system - I'm pretty sure it was
Microsoft! - that had examples in its help system; I think it even made
it not particularly difficult to use their example code in whatever you
were coding. (It was a split screen thing, blue text on white IIRR as
lots of things were in those days.) I agree, things that give the
abstract answer without context are irritating: IIRR "The Algol report"
was like that, and I was _going_ to say K&R (all hail) too, but I think
they _did_ give examples. (The canonical "Hello world" for example.)
[]
I remember that the 'worked example' was a major part of even the driest
textbooks from schools in the last quarter of the last century, the idea
being that study of it would show one context, and the aim being to
understand how to modify it to fit others.


Indeed.

People now seem to think that asking for this is asking for fish when we
should learn to fish. It's not, it's like asking for a working fishing rod.
Which is reasonable, If we break it, we learn more than if we never see it


Indeed. (I seem to be using that word a lot today!) Of course, the third
line of "give a man a fish ..." is "show him the internet, and he'll
never bother you again" - though whoever wrote that meant that it will
waste his time for ever, rather than educate him, I think!
[]
stuff, but I only learned a lot fast if it worked in the first place.
That's a hell of a motivator, especially when the stuff wasn't mine
because the sooner I fixed it, the less trouble I'd be in.


(-:


The lessons were memorable.

Circum-oral clips?
[]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If it's pretentious, then at least it's not the sort that wears a horned helmet
and shrieks about trolls. - Stuart Maconie in Radio Times, 14-20 November 2009.
  #18  
Old February 11th 12, 04:49 PM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
Lostgallifreyan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,562
Default Wextech Papertrail (Or other HLP file disassembler.)

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in
:

Any good teacher will say it's better to guide you until you find the
answer for yourself; you'll be much more satisfied, and know _why_
it's the answer as well as just what the answer is.


That's true, but takes time. Coders seem to dislike spending time on
anything other than their work, even when willing to help, so will
usually give a terse collection of function details, arguments for them,
etc. (And occasionally, RT(F)M should be taken to mean 'I don't know,
and don't want to admit it or spend time discussing it'). I recently got
the impression that


(-: indeed!


I always deliberately remember that Einstein would give a plain answer in
basic language. The fact that he could, and did, was part of what made him
good at what he did. As far as I know, this didn't mean a terse bit of
formula, the plain answer likely took more time and effort. Or would have
done, from anyone with less understanding.

coders who use C++ may not even know how to open a file in ANSI C.

The API references usually just give the calls in an abstracted manner,
parts to assemble, without working context. The wxWidgets guide goes
further, it


Yes. I remember a DOS C compiler/system - I'm pretty sure it was
Microsoft! - that had examples in its help system; I think it even made
it not particularly difficult to use their example code in whatever you
were coding. (It was a split screen thing, blue text on white IIRR as
lots of things were in those days.) I agree, things that give the
abstract answer without context are irritating: IIRR "The Algol report"
was like that, and I was _going_ to say K&R (all hail) too, but I think
they _did_ give examples. (The canonical "Hello world" for example.)


Sounds good. The wxWidgets ones are still a step removed for anyone
converting to wxLua. This is why the closer it is to actually working, the
better. I suspect the older guides may be better, newer ones often make
assumptions about what people should already know. Which is not the best way
for a teacher or professor to behave... If it were all organised into yearly
advances in a syllabus, sure, but I never say a coding guide like that. I
like code to work fast, to solve a problem, to give a working example before
a pupil gets bored and frustrated and their mind clouds with it.

Imagine Orville and Wilbur Wright's frustrations if someone had told them to
study feathers, and refused to let them see a bird fly!

People now seem to think that asking for this is asking for fish when we
should learn to fish. It's not, it's like asking for a working fishing
rod. Which is reasonable, If we break it, we learn more than if we never
see it


Indeed. (I seem to be using that word a lot today!) Of course, the third
line of "give a man a fish ..." is "show him the internet, and he'll
never bother you again" - though whoever wrote that meant that it will
waste his time for ever, rather than educate him, I think!


Indeed.
I will always remember somethign from a Doctor Who story, where the third
Doctor (Pertwee) goes to Tibet and debates with a lama there, and the lama
says something about how happy a goldfish would be if the bowl were emptied
into the ocean. The codtor says, yes, but how much happier that fish would be
if you could empty the ocean into the bowl. Which is basically what
academia is about. The net isn't a good teacher, it's just a new
manifestation of the world. Sink or swim. Telling a person to go out there
and RTFM is about as useful as telling kids in England that if they want to
eat, they must forage in the hedgerows. As most of the real food is in
private land, or hothouses, that's a stance that is both cruel and foolish.


That's a hell of a motivator, especially when the stuff wasn't mine
because the sooner I fixed it, the less trouble I'd be in.

(-:


The lessons were memorable.

Circum-oral clips?


No, no, just a mighty dread of being found out. I was a very secretive kid,
and hated being caught out failing or breaking something. I got the feeling
that my parents didn't care if I got into something I shouldn't so long as I
got myself out of it without them having to know.
  #19  
Old February 11th 12, 10:52 PM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
Bill in Co
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 701
Default Wextech Papertrail (Or other HLP file disassembler.)

Lostgallifreyan wrote:
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in
:

Sometimes I wish someone would just give me the answer. I would if
asked. Saves time letting them hang themselves reaching for un-needed
complexity, or wondering if a thing ever worked right. As a kid I
learned best from breaking


Any good teacher will say it's better to guide you until you find the
answer for yourself; you'll be much more satisfied, and know _why_ it's
the answer as well as just what the answer is.


snip

So just out of curiosity, what was the upshot of all this, since I've lost
track?
Is there any converter app (for Win9x or XP) that can fully convert a .HLP
file into a .CHM file *and* preserve the layouts and images, etc? (Not a
..RTF file, but a real CHM file, that is just as good as the original .HLP
file).


  #20  
Old February 12th 12, 12:17 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
Lostgallifreyan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,562
Default Wextech Papertrail (Or other HLP file disassembler.)

"Bill in Co" wrote in news:7ICdnS-
:

Lostgallifreyan wrote:
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in
:

Sometimes I wish someone would just give me the answer. I would if
asked. Saves time letting them hang themselves reaching for un-needed
complexity, or wondering if a thing ever worked right. As a kid I
learned best from breaking

Any good teacher will say it's better to guide you until you find the
answer for yourself; you'll be much more satisfied, and know _why_ it's
the answer as well as just what the answer is.


snip

So just out of curiosity, what was the upshot of all this, since I've lost
track?
Is there any converter app (for Win9x or XP) that can fully convert a .HLP
file into a .CHM file *and* preserve the layouts and images, etc? (Not a
.RTF file, but a real CHM file, that is just as good as the original .HLP
file).




Maybe, but not directly as far as I know. That late answer to my own first
post in this thread shows my best shot at it. Converting to intermediate HTML
is a great move, it allows a good way to manually corect errors in originals
before conversion.

I didn't get the full contents/index copied over, and I'm not sure if this is
just my ignorance of the finer points, or if there are unresolved links I can
do nothing about. The process did report several. It will be a while before I
know if actual data got chopped out too, I'll be using the otiginal in
parallel with the CHM if in doubt, until I trust the CHM. The CHM itself is
real enough, I'm just unsure how complete it is. Any flaws may not be due to
method, they're more likely to to something the decompiler couldn't follow.
As it's apparently the best HLP decompiler, I'll live with it.
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Help! Windows 98 INF file, Driver file (.sys) is not getting copied into system directory [email protected] General 5 January 14th 06 06:28 AM
Batch file for IE 6 - 5.5 dll replacement (explorer hang issue with bulk move/delete file operations) Ivan Bútora General 5 December 16th 05 02:58 AM
Can't rename or delete a file - File system error (1026) thomas Improving Performance 14 September 17th 05 06:53 AM
Can't rename or delete a file - File system error (1026) thomas Improving Performance 0 September 8th 05 05:18 AM
Clickable "Open" file stops working / File associations list? BArun General 2 August 22nd 04 09:32 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 Win98banter.
The comments are property of their posters.