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How can I get Win98 to release memory when an application is closed?



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 4th 05, 04:49 AM
Jon Danniken
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How can I get Win98 to release memory when an application is closed?

Hello,

I am running Win98 on a box with 64Mb RAM, and adding more RAM is not an
option at this time.

When I open up an application, for instance Window's Sound Recorder, it uses
a certain amount of RAM. The problem is that when the application is
closed, the RAM memory which it used is not released.

I noticed this by using "Windows System Monitor". In the category "Memory
Manager, Unused Physical Memory", it shows a certain amount of "free" RAM.
When I open up the application, it becomes lowered, but when I close the
application, it does not return to the "pre application" amount.

This is leading to the swapfile being used, which has undesired
consequences, especially in regards to using Sound Recorder to make a
recording.

Is there a method of releasing this RAM after an application which used it
is closed?

Thanks for any suggestions,

Jon

  #2  
Old November 4th 05, 05:02 AM
Chris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How can I get Win98 to release memory when an application is closed?

Every program should release the same amount of memory which was used by the
application when closed. However, this is microsoft you're talking about.
To fix the problem, you'd need to find an updated version of the software.

Why can't you upgrade the memory? 128MB of RAM costs you next to nothing
these days.

Also, why are you using such an outdated application as Windows Sound
Recorder? There are much better applications out there...every SB card
includes free recording software.


"Jon Danniken" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I am running Win98 on a box with 64Mb RAM, and adding more RAM is not an
option at this time.

When I open up an application, for instance Window's Sound Recorder, it

uses
a certain amount of RAM. The problem is that when the application is
closed, the RAM memory which it used is not released.

I noticed this by using "Windows System Monitor". In the category "Memory
Manager, Unused Physical Memory", it shows a certain amount of "free" RAM.
When I open up the application, it becomes lowered, but when I close the
application, it does not return to the "pre application" amount.

This is leading to the swapfile being used, which has undesired
consequences, especially in regards to using Sound Recorder to make a
recording.

Is there a method of releasing this RAM after an application which used it
is closed?

Thanks for any suggestions,

Jon



  #3  
Old November 4th 05, 04:40 PM
Ron Badour
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How can I get Win98 to release memory when an application is closed?

The W98 memory manager will release unused memory when there is a need to
(i.e., something else needs it). This particular reading is not terribly
useful since there should be little unused physical memory if the system is
working correctly. Of course if you have 768 mb of ram installed and are
only using 300 mb, then there will be a large amount being reflected as
unused. What you should be concerned about is the amount of swap file being
used. W98 anticipates how much memory is going to be required to run the
operations on your PC and establishes a swap file big enough to handle it.
However, if you have sufficient ram installed, the swap file will not be
used. If it is being used (say 15/20 mb), then it might be worth it to
install more ram. I can tell you that 64 mb of ram is not much these days
depending on how many ram intensive programs you are running. It sounds as
if your PC may have SDRam installed and if so, you can pick up a 128 mb
stick for $20 and a $256 mb stick for $35 (I looked at one site only, you
may even be able to get a better price if you do some searching):

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...ory_memory.asp

Whatever you do, do not get one of the snake oil programs (such as MemTurbo)
that frees up ram as they run counter to the W98 memory manager and will
probably do more harm than good. I do not know of any knowledgeable user
who believes these programs have some value. Do a search on the newsgroups
using: MVP Memturbo and you will see what I mean.
http://groups.google.com/groups

--
Regards


Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98
Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour
Knowledge Base Info:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo



"Jon Danniken" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I am running Win98 on a box with 64Mb RAM, and adding more RAM is not an
option at this time.

When I open up an application, for instance Window's Sound Recorder, it
uses
a certain amount of RAM. The problem is that when the application is
closed, the RAM memory which it used is not released.

I noticed this by using "Windows System Monitor". In the category "Memory
Manager, Unused Physical Memory", it shows a certain amount of "free" RAM.
When I open up the application, it becomes lowered, but when I close the
application, it does not return to the "pre application" amount.

This is leading to the swapfile being used, which has undesired
consequences, especially in regards to using Sound Recorder to make a
recording.

Is there a method of releasing this RAM after an application which used it
is closed?

Thanks for any suggestions,

Jon



  #4  
Old November 4th 05, 08:14 PM
Ron Martell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How can I get Win98 to release memory when an application is closed?

"Jon Danniken" wrote:

Hello,

I am running Win98 on a box with 64Mb RAM, and adding more RAM is not an
option at this time.

When I open up an application, for instance Window's Sound Recorder, it uses
a certain amount of RAM. The problem is that when the application is
closed, the RAM memory which it used is not released.

I noticed this by using "Windows System Monitor". In the category "Memory
Manager, Unused Physical Memory", it shows a certain amount of "free" RAM.
When I open up the application, it becomes lowered, but when I close the
application, it does not return to the "pre application" amount.

This is leading to the swapfile being used, which has undesired
consequences, especially in regards to using Sound Recorder to make a
recording.

Is there a method of releasing this RAM after an application which used it
is closed?

Thanks for any suggestions,

Jon


By design Windows will always attempt to find some use, any use
whatever that might potentially be of some benefit, for every bit of
RAM that is installed in the computer; rather than just letting the
RAM sit there idly going to rot and doing absolutely no good for
anybody.

And just as soon as some better use comes along for any of that RAM
then Windows will instaneously drop the more trivial usages so as to
free up whatever amount is now required.

It could be said that "free memory" should more appropriately be
referred to as "useless memory" because that is what it actually
represents - memory for which Windows has so far been totally unable
to find any constructive use for.

Hope this explains the situation.

Good luck

Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
--
Microsoft MVP
On-Line Help Computer Service
http://onlinehelp.bc.ca

In memory of a dear friend Alex Nichol MVP
http://aumha.org/alex.htm
  #5  
Old November 4th 05, 10:08 PM
Chris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How can I get Win98 to release memory when an application is closed?


By design Windows will always attempt to find some use, any use
whatever that might potentially be of some benefit, for every bit of
RAM that is installed in the computer; rather than just letting the
RAM sit there idly going to rot and doing absolutely no good for
anybody.

And just as soon as some better use comes along for any of that RAM
then Windows will instaneously drop the more trivial usages so as to
free up whatever amount is now required.

It could be said that "free memory" should more appropriately be
referred to as "useless memory" because that is what it actually
represents - memory for which Windows has so far been totally unable
to find any constructive use for.

Hope this explains the situation.

Good luck

Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
--
Microsoft MVP
On-Line Help Computer Service
http://onlinehelp.bc.ca


"RAM sit there idly going to rot"?
"useless memory"?

Oh my. Do you also share the view of Mr. Gates who stated that "640 K ought
to be enough for anybody." -- Bill Gates, 1981 ????

Heehee....



  #6  
Old November 5th 05, 12:28 AM
Jon Danniken
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How can I get Win98 to release memory when an application is closed?

Okay, I'll try to spell this out more clearly for you guys.

When I boot into this machine, I have 30Mb of unused physical memory.

When I look at the "Properties" of a 20Mb .wav file, the unused physical
memory drops to 15Mb.

When I close the "Properties" windows, the unused physical memory stays at
15Mb.

If I open 20Mb file (for instance, in SndRec32), the unused physical memory
drops to 0, and a 5Mb page file is used.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Hence my original question: How can I get Win98 to release memory after an
application (or the Properties window) is closed?

Note: As I stated as the *first thing* in my original post, adding more RAM
is not an option at the current time; please do not waste time by belaboring
this point.

Thanks,

Jon

  #7  
Old November 5th 05, 03:56 AM
Chris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How can I get Win98 to release memory when an application is closed?

You don't get it? If an application does not free up the used memory,
Windows can not free up the memory to use for other applications. Hence, a
Windows restart is the only way to get the memory back.

Like I said, try some other programs. Try searching for a program call
dbPowerAmp. This program even lets you save audio in mp3 format.

HTH...
Chris.


"Jon Danniken" wrote in message
...
Okay, I'll try to spell this out more clearly for you guys.

When I boot into this machine, I have 30Mb of unused physical memory.

When I look at the "Properties" of a 20Mb .wav file, the unused physical
memory drops to 15Mb.

When I close the "Properties" windows, the unused physical memory stays at
15Mb.

If I open 20Mb file (for instance, in SndRec32), the unused physical

memory
drops to 0, and a 5Mb page file is used.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Hence my original question: How can I get Win98 to release memory after an
application (or the Properties window) is closed?

Note: As I stated as the *first thing* in my original post, adding more

RAM
is not an option at the current time; please do not waste time by

belaboring
this point.

Thanks,

Jon



  #8  
Old November 6th 05, 06:01 AM
Jeff Richards
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How can I get Win98 to release memory when an application is closed?

There is a difference between released memory and unused physical memory.
The application is releasing memory when it ends. However, Windows does not
mark all the released memory as unused physical memory, because it knows the
contents (at least for some of it). Windows tries to track the contents of
as much memory as possible, because this improves performance. You can see
this if you start your application, close it, and start it again. The
second startup is faster. Although the program released its memory, Windows
kept track of the contents and was therefore able to re-load the application
faster.

Applications that fail to release their memory are a problem, but it is a
very rare problem. You need a much more sophisticated monitor than the one
you are using to find it. You don't want to force Windows to return the
released memory to unused physical memory because that will prevent it from
performing the optimisations (when possible) while not providing any
performance improvement.

The example you have quoted is not a valid comparison. Instead, compare the
physical memory and swap file usage after loading the large file for two
cases: one where you have done the prior properties enquiry, and the other
without doing it.
--
Jeff Richards
MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
"Jon Danniken" wrote in message
...
Okay, I'll try to spell this out more clearly for you guys.

When I boot into this machine, I have 30Mb of unused physical memory.

When I look at the "Properties" of a 20Mb .wav file, the unused physical
memory drops to 15Mb.

When I close the "Properties" windows, the unused physical memory stays at
15Mb.

If I open 20Mb file (for instance, in SndRec32), the unused physical
memory
drops to 0, and a 5Mb page file is used.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Hence my original question: How can I get Win98 to release memory after an
application (or the Properties window) is closed?

Note: As I stated as the *first thing* in my original post, adding more
RAM
is not an option at the current time; please do not waste time by
belaboring
this point.

Thanks,

Jon



  #9  
Old November 6th 05, 08:47 AM
Chris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How can I get Win98 to release memory when an application is closed?


"Jeff Richards" wrote in message
...
There is a difference between released memory and unused physical memory.
The application is releasing memory when it ends. However, Windows does

not
mark all the released memory as unused physical memory, because it knows

the
contents (at least for some of it). Windows tries to track the contents of
as much memory as possible, because this improves performance. You can see
this if you start your application, close it, and start it again. The
second startup is faster. Although the program released its memory,

Windows
kept track of the contents and was therefore able to re-load the

application
faster.


"Although the program released its memory, Windows kept track of the
contents and was therefore able to re-load the application faster."

What a bunch of rubish! Windows does not keep track of what memory any
given application allocates! The reason the application loads faster the
second time around is because of "File Cache".

File Cache is used by Windows to store applications ( or files ) which have
been read ( most of the time ) from the hard drive. So if you do close an
application and open it again, that application is read from memory instead
of a disk. Any memory which is allocated once the application is up and
running, takes the same amount of time to allocate as it did the first time
the application was launched.

Applications that fail to release their memory are a problem, but it is a
very rare problem


Another false statement. MOST applications out there which were not created
with a programming language like JAVA ( which handles the memory
management ) are all prone to memory leaks. The only question is how bad is
the leak? The reason for this is because most programmers use a method of
software engineering forced onto them by management called "Had to be done
yesterday". Most of a programmers time is spent on programing and very
little time is spent on software engineering.

The proof that this is more then a rare problem is the very application he's
using.



  #10  
Old November 6th 05, 11:27 AM
Jon Danniken
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How can I get Win98 to release memory when an application is closed?

Thank you, Jeff; I appreciate that you read my query and I also appreciate
your reality-based explanation as to what exactly is going in this this
case. The mechanism makes sense now, and I appreciate knowing this.

You asked about about the memory usage in a different case; here it is:

Start -- 30 Mb unused RAM
Open 20Mb file -- 10 Mb unused RAM
Close 20Mb. file -- 30 Mb unused RAM
Check Properties of 20Mb file -- 15 Mb. unused RAM
Close Properties -- *** no change in unused RAM ***
Open 20Mb. file -- 0Mb. unused RAM, 5 Mb Swap

I guess my question at this point would be asking how to turn *off* the
"optimization" of Windows to that it returns the
released memory to unused physical memory after checking the properties.
(Or maybe I should just stop checking properties lol).

While I appreciate that the optimizations are handy in most circumstances, I
would much rather wait a little bit for the application to load than have
what little memory I have taken up (IMHO) by the "optimization". This
machine is currently only doing a few specific tasks, so I am willing (and
would prefer) to accept this mode of operation.

Is this possible, and if so, how?

Thanks again,

Jon

"Jeff Richards" wrote:
There is a difference between released memory and unused physical memory.
The application is releasing memory when it ends. However, Windows does

not
mark all the released memory as unused physical memory, because it knows

the
contents (at least for some of it). Windows tries to track the contents of
as much memory as possible, because this improves performance. You can see
this if you start your application, close it, and start it again. The
second startup is faster. Although the program released its memory,

Windows
kept track of the contents and was therefore able to re-load the

application
faster.

Applications that fail to release their memory are a problem, but it is a


very rare problem. You need a much more sophisticated monitor than the one
you are using to find it. You don't want to force Windows to return the
released memory to unused physical memory because that will prevent it

from
performing the optimisations (when possible) while not providing any
performance improvement.

The example you have quoted is not a valid comparison. Instead, compare

the
physical memory and swap file usage after loading the large file for two
cases: one where you have done the prior properties enquiry, and the other
without doing it.


"Jon Danniken" wrote:
Okay, I'll try to spell this out more clearly for you guys.

When I boot into this machine, I have 30Mb of unused physical memory.

When I look at the "Properties" of a 20Mb .wav file, the unused physical
memory drops to 15Mb.

When I close the "Properties" windows, the unused physical memory stays

at
15Mb.

If I open 20Mb file (for instance, in SndRec32), the unused physical
memory
drops to 0, and a 5Mb page file is used.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Hence my original question: How can I get Win98 to release memory after

an
application (or the Properties window) is closed?

Note: As I stated as the *first thing* in my original post, adding more
RAM
is not an option at the current time; please do not waste time by
belaboring
this point.


 




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