Floppy disc drive

Thanks Ron, I did disable the floppy disk controller and couldnt use it at
all. I then enabled it removed it and rebooted and added the new hardware. I
appreciate all of your help.
--
margiegirl


"Ron Badour" wrote:

It could be a MS-DOS compatibility mode problem--see this article.

Troubleshooting Floppy Disk Drive Problems in Windows
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=131690


--
Regards


Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98
Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour
Knowledge Base Info:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo



"margie" wrote in message
...
HP Pavillion 6611 my elderly neighbour is having trouble with his floppy
discs. Slow to bring up and computer freezing. I tried to do a diskscan
in
safe mode but it will not finish, comes up with errors and unfixable ones.
I
have checked all the internal connections and they seem ok, spyware check,
virus check, I think it is time to replace the hardware, any help would be
appreciated.
--
margie

Thanks Hugh, It looks pretty easy to replace I will do that and hopefully
this will stop a few of the problems.
Thanks to everyone for their help.
--
margiegirl


"Hugh Candlin" wrote:


"margie" wrote in message
...

--
Forgot to mention in my previous reply that I could not create a start up
disk either.
I have one from a few years ago, but towards the end of trying to create
one
it wouldnt do it.

I would not waste another minute fooling with that drive.
It seems quite obvious that the floppy drive is worn out.
It is one of the cheapest repairs there is. Just replace it.

You'll probably be able to recover the files from the disks,
unless the drive was already too far out of alignment
when the disks were originally created.

"margie" wrote in message
...
Thank you to all who have helped. I spent quite some time today checking out
the floppy drive and found some files wouldnt open and I couldnt delete them.
Others were perfectly ok and I managed to save and open and delete files from
various programmes successfully.
I went into device manager and there were two disk drives: Generic IDE Disk
Type 01 and Generic NEC floppy disk, I deleted both and rebooted and the NEC
didnt come back on reboot.
I did the MS-DOS command prompt copy a:\*.* nul but the files I couldnt
bring up on the floppy wouldnt come up here either. "Read fault error reading
drive A. Abort, retry Fail. Files that did come up on the floppy were listed.
I did a thorough scan on C drive and it was ok. The standard scan on Drive
A was ok as well but didnt do another thorough scan, advised not to by a few
of you. But the original thorough scan from cluster 1518 came up with
"Scandisk could not properly read or write to cluster...... This cluster is
currently unused but should be marked as bad so windows does not attempt to
store data in it in future, this went on until I stopped at cluster 1527,
some repaired some didnt.
I noticed that when I tried to bring up some entries on the floppy, the ones
that wouldnt come up made a clicking noise. So, I am unsure if replacing the
floppy hardware would be the right thing to do, please tell me what you
think????

Not all files will run in DOS, yet if you want to check the contents of any floppy
disk type the below command at the command prompt and then press Enter:

dir a:\ **Note the space between dir and a.
If it fails to read disks and you have a spare FD, swap it out to see if the FD is
bad. If you don't have a spare, I agree with Hugh on replacing it.

I noticed when the tower was open that an auxillary fan wasnt going, the one
in the power supply was, should this auxillary fan have been going, the
computer had been on at least 3 hours. Hoping you can advise me. Many thanks
from Margie.

Which "aux" fan is not running, front intake or back output? If it's not an aux
fan and it's one on the heatsink (if installed) above the processor and it doesn't
spin up at all, quit using the machine or the processor can/will become toast.
If it is either the front or rear fan, do you know if it is Sensor controlled or if
it has a user speed control? If it's not controlled, replace it.



--

Brian A. Sesko { MS MVP_Shell/User }
Conflicts start where information lacks.
http://basconotw.mvps.org/

Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375




"MEB" wrote:

Next time your in Safe Mode look for duplicate floppy entries in Device
Manager. Make Notes of what is found.
Start Settings Control Panel System Device Manager Disk Drives -
Delete all entries for the floppy
GO next to Floppy Disk Controllers, while in Device Manager, and delete the
controller (making note if more than one).
While in Device manager and "Disk Drives" make note of the number of hard
drives shown. Also check under Hard disk Controllers the number of
drivers/entries found and what is shown.

Restart in normal mode, computer should find and replace the floppy drive
with freshened drivers. Check by going back the same way to Device Manager.
If not go to:
Start Settings Control Panel Add New Hardware and let it search.

Post back with the results if you would please.

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/
BLOG - http://peoplescounsel.spaces.live.com/ Public Notice or the "real
world"
Forum - http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/xforum - requires registration due
to AD abuse

"Most people, sometime in their lives, stumble across truth.
Most jump up, brush themselves off, and hurry on about their business as if
nothing had happen." Winston Churchill
Or to put it another way:
Morpheus can offer you the two pills;
but only you can choose whether you take the red pill or the blue one.
_______________

"margie" wrote in message
...
| HP Pavillion 6611 my elderly neighbour is having trouble with his floppy
| discs. Slow to bring up and computer freezing. I tried to do a diskscan
in
| safe mode but it will not finish, comes up with errors and unfixable ones.
I
| have checked all the internal connections and they seem ok, spyware check,
| virus check, I think it is time to replace the hardware, any help would be
| appreciated.
| --
| margie

"margie" wrote in message
...

Sorry margie, I should have asked these from day one.

What operating system and version does the neighbor run?

What is the target computer's make and model number?

Did you check in the BIOS for its settings?

What disks are you/the neighbor having trouble with, an install set, a
backup set, or what?

How many disks are failing, all, some, just some specific ones?

| Thank you to all who have helped. I spent quite some time today checking
out
| the floppy drive and found some files wouldnt open and I couldnt delete
them.
| Others were perfectly ok and I managed to save and open and delete files
from
| various programmes successfully.
| I went into device manager and there were two disk drives: Generic IDE
Disk
| Type 01 and Generic NEC floppy disk, I deleted both and rebooted and the
NEC
| didnt come back on reboot.

This was in Safe mode that you deleted the drives as I advised, right?

The generic IDE is the hard drive, the Generic NEC was the floppy. You need
both showing in normal mode.
If you did this removal in normal mode you will not see doubled drivers or
get the results you need. Starting in Safe Mode is the only sure way to
ensure you achieve the viewing, removal, and replacement.

I also advised to run Find New Hardware AFTER the Safe Mode removals, in
NORMAL MODE, if the floppy drive did not re-appear.

| I did the MS-DOS command prompt copy a:\*.* nul but the files I couldnt
| bring up on the floppy wouldnt come up here either. "Read fault error
reading
| drive A. Abort, retry Fail. Files that did come up on the floppy were
listed.

Okay, that floppy disk is damaged. You may have to Recover what files you
can off of it with a Recovery tool. DO NOT RUN SCAN DISK OR DEFRAG ON THESE
DISKS, or try any further access or recovery via normal Windows or DOS means
if this information or program is important.

| I did a thorough scan on C drive and it was ok.

Okay, that's out of the way.

| The standard scan on Drive
| A was ok as well but didnt do another thorough scan, advised not to by a
few
| of you. But the original thorough scan from cluster 1518 came up with
| "Scandisk could not properly read or write to cluster...... This cluster
is
| currently unused but should be marked as bad so windows does not attempt
to
| store data in it in future, this went on until I stopped at cluster 1527,
| some repaired some didnt.
| I noticed that when I tried to bring up some entries on the floppy, the
ones
| that wouldnt come up made a clicking noise. So, I am unsure if replacing
the
| floppy hardware would be the right thing to do, please tell me what you
| think????

Hmm, your indicating that the drive tries to read and repair the disk(s),
so you apparently have some control over the floppy disk. The clicking noise
can be created by a number of things related to damaged floppies:
Corrupted fat;
corrupted MBR;
scratched disk surface;
wrong format [such as an "extended disk" format] being "attempted" read as
1.44 when its actually formatted 1.8 [certain older install disks
generally];
corrupted disks due to magnetic degradation [which happens to be my major
problem with my old floppy disk collection];
...; or,
as you fear, hardware failure.
However, you also state that you were successful with other floppies, so
that would appear to indicate individual disk corruption or failure to read
or support the format [or possibly a dirty drive]. Also, you have used
Windows to view the disks [My Computer or Explorer] and worked with other
disks.

You previously stated that the computer would freeze trying to access some
of the disks in Windows. Did removing the drive entry at least correct some
of that problem?

SUMMARY:

Unless you followed the instructions to check for and remove extra/any
FLOPPY drive entries in SAFE MODE, you may still have improper access to the
floppy drive. Please read and follow my original post on 01/10/07, with the
indicated BIOS check [above], and Find New Hardware should it not appear
after Normal startup.

You should have an entry for the floppy drive in Device Manager, in Normal
mode, AFTER any removal. It may continue to work but it isn't properly
registered. Possibly supported through BIOS support, not the full Windows
driver support, unless there is a "ghost drive".

What you have described appears to indicate individual disk corruption,
rather than drive failure, or a dirty drive. If, after following the above,
there are still issues with individual disks, direction can be given by the
group for recovery attempts.

| I noticed when the tower was open that an auxillary fan wasnt going, the
one
| in the power supply was, should this auxillary fan have been going, the
| computer had been on at least 3 hours. Hoping you can advise me. Many
thanks
| from Margie.

Likely it should, though since we don't know what the computer in question
is, or its age, we really can't correctly advise you one way or the other.
It may have chip controlled heat monitoring, which could have shut off the
fan entirely.
Apparently, though, its not a newer computer [your in the Win98 discussion
group working with floppies and indicated an elderly neighbor] so it would
appear that it should be running, particularly if there is no fan on the
processor and generally, the video card, after running for three hours. Best
check for sure, as heat will kill a computer's delicate electronics.

|
| "MEB" wrote:
|
| Next time your in Safe Mode look for duplicate floppy entries in Device
| Manager. Make Notes of what is found.
| Start Settings Control Panel System Device Manager Disk
Drives -
| Delete all entries for the floppy
| GO next to Floppy Disk Controllers, while in Device Manager, and delete
the
| controller (making note if more than one).
| While in Device manager and "Disk Drives" make note of the number of
hard
| drives shown. Also check under Hard disk Controllers the number of
| drivers/entries found and what is shown.
|
| Restart in normal mode, computer should find and replace the floppy
drive
| with freshened drivers. Check by going back the same way to Device
Manager.
| If not go to:
| Start Settings Control Panel Add New Hardware and let it search.
|
| Post back with the results if you would please.
|
| --
| MEB
| http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/
| BLOG - http://peoplescounsel.spaces.live.com/ Public Notice or the "real
| world"
| Forum - http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/xforum - requires registration
due
| to AD abuse
|
| "Most people, sometime in their lives, stumble across truth.
| Most jump up, brush themselves off, and hurry on about their business as
if
| nothing had happen." Winston Churchill
| Or to put it another way:
| Morpheus can offer you the two pills;
| but only you can choose whether you take the red pill or the blue one.
| _______________
|
| "margie" wrote in message
| ...
| | HP Pavillion 6611 my elderly neighbour is having trouble with his
floppy
| | discs. Slow to bring up and computer freezing. I tried to do a
diskscan
| in
| | safe mode but it will not finish, comes up with errors and unfixable
ones.
| I
| | have checked all the internal connections and they seem ok, spyware
check,
| | virus check, I think it is time to replace the hardware, any help
would be
| | appreciated.
| | --
| | margie
|
|
|


--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/
BLOG - http://peoplescounsel.spaces.live.com/ Public Notice or the "real
world"
Forum - http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/xforum - requires registration due
to AD abuse

"Most people, sometime in their lives, stumble across truth.
Most jump up, brush themselves off, and hurry on about their business as if
nothing had happen." Winston Churchill
Or to put it another way:
Morpheus can offer you the two pills;
but only you can choose whether you take the red pill or the blue one.
_______________

Thanks for your help. There are two fans in his computer one in the power
supply that one is going and one over the processor this is the one that is
not going. His computer had a roaring noise a while back and this seems to
have stopped. that is why I think this fan should be going all the time and
now it isnt this could have stopped the noise.
Just intermittent entries on some floppies it wont bring up but yet others
will come up on the same disc and sometimes it is very slow to bring things
up. Tried to start it with windows start up disc but it couldnt read the
whole disc.
Someone asked me the model it is a HP 6611 but has been rebuilt quite a
while back when a power surge wrecked it. 61mb ram, intel (r) celeron (tm)
processor.
Virtual memory 32 bit, file sys 32 bit. Windows 98SE.
--
margie


"MEB" wrote:




"margie" wrote in message
...

Sorry margie, I should have asked these from day one.

What operating system and version does the neighbor run?

What is the target computer's make and model number?

Did you check in the BIOS for its settings?

What disks are you/the neighbor having trouble with, an install set, a
backup set, or what?

How many disks are failing, all, some, just some specific ones?

| Thank you to all who have helped. I spent quite some time today checking
out
| the floppy drive and found some files wouldnt open and I couldnt delete
them.
| Others were perfectly ok and I managed to save and open and delete files
from
| various programmes successfully.
| I went into device manager and there were two disk drives: Generic IDE
Disk
| Type 01 and Generic NEC floppy disk, I deleted both and rebooted and the
NEC
| didnt come back on reboot.

This was in Safe mode that you deleted the drives as I advised, right?

The generic IDE is the hard drive, the Generic NEC was the floppy. You need
both showing in normal mode.
If you did this removal in normal mode you will not see doubled drivers or
get the results you need. Starting in Safe Mode is the only sure way to
ensure you achieve the viewing, removal, and replacement.

I also advised to run Find New Hardware AFTER the Safe Mode removals, in
NORMAL MODE, if the floppy drive did not re-appear.

| I did the MS-DOS command prompt copy a:\*.* nul but the files I couldnt
| bring up on the floppy wouldnt come up here either. "Read fault error
reading
| drive A. Abort, retry Fail. Files that did come up on the floppy were
listed.

Okay, that floppy disk is damaged. You may have to Recover what files you
can off of it with a Recovery tool. DO NOT RUN SCAN DISK OR DEFRAG ON THESE
DISKS, or try any further access or recovery via normal Windows or DOS means
if this information or program is important.

| I did a thorough scan on C drive and it was ok.

Okay, that's out of the way.

| The standard scan on Drive
| A was ok as well but didnt do another thorough scan, advised not to by a
few
| of you. But the original thorough scan from cluster 1518 came up with
| "Scandisk could not properly read or write to cluster...... This cluster
is
| currently unused but should be marked as bad so windows does not attempt
to
| store data in it in future, this went on until I stopped at cluster 1527,
| some repaired some didnt.
| I noticed that when I tried to bring up some entries on the floppy, the
ones
| that wouldnt come up made a clicking noise. So, I am unsure if replacing
the
| floppy hardware would be the right thing to do, please tell me what you
| think????

Hmm, your indicating that the drive tries to read and repair the disk(s),
so you apparently have some control over the floppy disk. The clicking noise
can be created by a number of things related to damaged floppies:
Corrupted fat;
corrupted MBR;
scratched disk surface;
wrong format [such as an "extended disk" format] being "attempted" read as
1.44 when its actually formatted 1.8 [certain older install disks
generally];
corrupted disks due to magnetic degradation [which happens to be my major
problem with my old floppy disk collection];
...; or,
as you fear, hardware failure.
However, you also state that you were successful with other floppies, so
that would appear to indicate individual disk corruption or failure to read
or support the format [or possibly a dirty drive]. Also, you have used
Windows to view the disks [My Computer or Explorer] and worked with other
disks.

You previously stated that the computer would freeze trying to access some
of the disks in Windows. Did removing the drive entry at least correct some
of that problem?

SUMMARY:

Unless you followed the instructions to check for and remove extra/any
FLOPPY drive entries in SAFE MODE, you may still have improper access to the
floppy drive. Please read and follow my original post on 01/10/07, with the
indicated BIOS check [above], and Find New Hardware should it not appear
after Normal startup.

You should have an entry for the floppy drive in Device Manager, in Normal
mode, AFTER any removal. It may continue to work but it isn't properly
registered. Possibly supported through BIOS support, not the full Windows
driver support, unless there is a "ghost drive".

What you have described appears to indicate individual disk corruption,
rather than drive failure, or a dirty drive. If, after following the above,
there are still issues with individual disks, direction can be given by the
group for recovery attempts.

| I noticed when the tower was open that an auxillary fan wasnt going, the
one
| in the power supply was, should this auxillary fan have been going, the
| computer had been on at least 3 hours. Hoping you can advise me. Many
thanks
| from Margie.

Likely it should, though since we don't know what the computer in question
is, or its age, we really can't correctly advise you one way or the other.
It may have chip controlled heat monitoring, which could have shut off the
fan entirely.
Apparently, though, its not a newer computer [your in the Win98 discussion
group working with floppies and indicated an elderly neighbor] so it would
appear that it should be running, particularly if there is no fan on the
processor and generally, the video card, after running for three hours. Best
check for sure, as heat will kill a computer's delicate electronics.

|
| "MEB" wrote:
|
| Next time your in Safe Mode look for duplicate floppy entries in Device
| Manager. Make Notes of what is found.
| Start Settings Control Panel System Device Manager Disk
Drives -
| Delete all entries for the floppy
| GO next to Floppy Disk Controllers, while in Device Manager, and delete
the
| controller (making note if more than one).
| While in Device manager and "Disk Drives" make note of the number of
hard
| drives shown. Also check under Hard disk Controllers the number of
| drivers/entries found and what is shown.
|
| Restart in normal mode, computer should find and replace the floppy
drive
| with freshened drivers. Check by going back the same way to Device
Manager.
| If not go to:
| Start Settings Control Panel Add New Hardware and let it search.
|
| Post back with the results if you would please.
|
| --
| MEB
| http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/
| BLOG - http://peoplescounsel.spaces.live.com/ Public Notice or the "real
| world"
| Forum - http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/xforum - requires registration
due
| to AD abuse
|
| "Most people, sometime in their lives, stumble across truth.
| Most jump up, brush themselves off, and hurry on about their business as
if
| nothing had happen." Winston Churchill
| Or to put it another way:
| Morpheus can offer you the two pills;
| but only you can choose whether you take the red pill or the blue one.
| _______________
|
| "margie" wrote in message
| ...
| | HP Pavillion 6611 my elderly neighbour is having trouble with his
floppy
| | discs. Slow to bring up and computer freezing. I tried to do a
diskscan
| in
| | safe mode but it will not finish, comes up with errors and unfixable
ones.
| I
| | have checked all the internal connections and they seem ok, spyware
check,
| | virus check, I think it is time to replace the hardware, any help
would be
| | appreciated.
| | --
| | margie
|
|
|


--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/
BLOG - http://peoplescounsel.spaces.live.com/ Public Notice or the "real
world"
Forum - http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/xforum - requires registration due
to AD abuse

"Most people, sometime in their lives, stumble across truth.
Most jump up, brush themselves off, and hurry on about their business as if
nothing had happen." Winston Churchill
Or to put it another way:
Morpheus can offer you the two pills;
but only you can choose whether you take the red pill or the blue one.
_______________

Cannot remember who I have replied to or havent replied to. Must check the
bios. but sounds as though I had better replace that fan over the processor
very quickly.
will also replace floppy drive.
--
margiegirl


"Brian A" wrote:

"margie" wrote in message
...
Thank you to all who have helped. I spent quite some time today checking out
the floppy drive and found some files wouldnt open and I couldnt delete them.
Others were perfectly ok and I managed to save and open and delete files from
various programmes successfully.
I went into device manager and there were two disk drives: Generic IDE Disk
Type 01 and Generic NEC floppy disk, I deleted both and rebooted and the NEC
didnt come back on reboot.
I did the MS-DOS command prompt copy a:\*.* nul but the files I couldnt
bring up on the floppy wouldnt come up here either. "Read fault error reading
drive A. Abort, retry Fail. Files that did come up on the floppy were listed.
I did a thorough scan on C drive and it was ok. The standard scan on Drive
A was ok as well but didnt do another thorough scan, advised not to by a few
of you. But the original thorough scan from cluster 1518 came up with
"Scandisk could not properly read or write to cluster...... This cluster is
currently unused but should be marked as bad so windows does not attempt to
store data in it in future, this went on until I stopped at cluster 1527,
some repaired some didnt.
I noticed that when I tried to bring up some entries on the floppy, the ones
that wouldnt come up made a clicking noise. So, I am unsure if replacing the
floppy hardware would be the right thing to do, please tell me what you
think????

Not all files will run in DOS, yet if you want to check the contents of any floppy
disk type the below command at the command prompt and then press Enter:

dir a:\ **Note the space between dir and a.
If it fails to read disks and you have a spare FD, swap it out to see if the FD is
bad. If you don't have a spare, I agree with Hugh on replacing it.

I noticed when the tower was open that an auxillary fan wasnt going, the one
in the power supply was, should this auxillary fan have been going, the
computer had been on at least 3 hours. Hoping you can advise me. Many thanks
from Margie.

Which "aux" fan is not running, front intake or back output? If it's not an aux
fan and it's one on the heatsink (if installed) above the processor and it doesn't
spin up at all, quit using the machine or the processor can/will become toast.
If it is either the front or rear fan, do you know if it is Sensor controlled or if
it has a user speed control? If it's not controlled, replace it.



--

Brian A. Sesko { MS MVP_Shell/User }
Conflicts start where information lacks.
http://basconotw.mvps.org/

Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375




"MEB" wrote:

Next time your in Safe Mode look for duplicate floppy entries in Device
Manager. Make Notes of what is found.
Start Settings Control Panel System Device Manager Disk Drives -
Delete all entries for the floppy
GO next to Floppy Disk Controllers, while in Device Manager, and delete the
controller (making note if more than one).
While in Device manager and "Disk Drives" make note of the number of hard
drives shown. Also check under Hard disk Controllers the number of
drivers/entries found and what is shown.

Restart in normal mode, computer should find and replace the floppy drive
with freshened drivers. Check by going back the same way to Device Manager.
If not go to:
Start Settings Control Panel Add New Hardware and let it search.

Post back with the results if you would please.

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/
BLOG - http://peoplescounsel.spaces.live.com/ Public Notice or the "real
world"
Forum - http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/xforum - requires registration due
to AD abuse

"Most people, sometime in their lives, stumble across truth.
Most jump up, brush themselves off, and hurry on about their business as if
nothing had happen." Winston Churchill
Or to put it another way:
Morpheus can offer you the two pills;
but only you can choose whether you take the red pill or the blue one.
_______________

"margie" wrote in message
...
| HP Pavillion 6611 my elderly neighbour is having trouble with his floppy
| discs. Slow to bring up and computer freezing. I tried to do a diskscan
in
| safe mode but it will not finish, comes up with errors and unfixable ones.
I
| have checked all the internal connections and they seem ok, spyware check,
| virus check, I think it is time to replace the hardware, any help would be
| appreciated.
| --
| margie

"margie" wrote in message
...
| Thanks for your help. There are two fans in his computer one in the power
| supply that one is going and one over the processor this is the one that
is
| not going. His computer had a roaring noise a while back and this seems
to
| have stopped. that is why I think this fan should be going all the time
and
| now it isnt this could have stopped the noise.
| Just intermittent entries on some floppies it wont bring up but yet others
| will come up on the same disc and sometimes it is very slow to bring
things
| up. Tried to start it with windows start up disc but it couldnt read the
| whole disc.
| Someone asked me the model it is a HP 6611 but has been rebuilt quite a
| while back when a power surge wrecked it. 61mb ram, intel (r) celeron
(tm)
| processor.
| Virtual memory 32 bit, file sys 32 bit. Windows 98SE.
| --
| margie


Key on that processor fan quickly. An over heating processor will give you
all kinds of problems, including the seek problems, read problems, freeze
problems, and other more dangerous, to the entire system.
The computer shouldn't be used until at least the processor fan is
replaced. Then the hard disk should be re-checked. Issues arise when the
files are accessed and may cause them to be cross-linked, or otherwise
damaged.

Others will likely walk you through some "after fan re-placement" testing
for memory, hard disk, and other potential issues. Hopefully you caught it
in time.

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/
BLOG - http://peoplescounsel.spaces.live.com/ Public Notice or the "real
world"
Forum - http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/xforum - requires registration due
to AD abuse

"Most people, sometime in their lives, stumble across truth.
Most jump up, brush themselves off, and hurry on about their business as if
nothing had happen." Winston Churchill
Or to put it another way:
Morpheus can offer you the two pills;
but only you can choose whether you take the red pill or the blue one.
_______________

|
|
| "MEB" wrote:
|
|
|
|
| "margie" wrote in message
| ...
|
| Sorry margie, I should have asked these from day one.
|
| What operating system and version does the neighbor run?
|
| What is the target computer's make and model number?
|
| Did you check in the BIOS for its settings?
|
| What disks are you/the neighbor having trouble with, an install set, a
| backup set, or what?
|
| How many disks are failing, all, some, just some specific ones?
|
| | Thank you to all who have helped. I spent quite some time today
checking
| out
| | the floppy drive and found some files wouldnt open and I couldnt
delete
| them.
| | Others were perfectly ok and I managed to save and open and delete
files
| from
| | various programmes successfully.
| | I went into device manager and there were two disk drives: Generic IDE
| Disk
| | Type 01 and Generic NEC floppy disk, I deleted both and rebooted and
the
| NEC
| | didnt come back on reboot.
|
| This was in Safe mode that you deleted the drives as I advised, right?
|
| The generic IDE is the hard drive, the Generic NEC was the floppy. You
need
| both showing in normal mode.
| If you did this removal in normal mode you will not see doubled drivers
or
| get the results you need. Starting in Safe Mode is the only sure way to
| ensure you achieve the viewing, removal, and replacement.
|
| I also advised to run Find New Hardware AFTER the Safe Mode removals,
in
| NORMAL MODE, if the floppy drive did not re-appear.
|
| | I did the MS-DOS command prompt copy a:\*.* nul but the files I
couldnt
| | bring up on the floppy wouldnt come up here either. "Read fault error
| reading
| | drive A. Abort, retry Fail. Files that did come up on the floppy were
| listed.
|
| Okay, that floppy disk is damaged. You may have to Recover what files
you
| can off of it with a Recovery tool. DO NOT RUN SCAN DISK OR DEFRAG ON
THESE
| DISKS, or try any further access or recovery via normal Windows or DOS
means
| if this information or program is important.
|
| | I did a thorough scan on C drive and it was ok.
|
| Okay, that's out of the way.
|
| | The standard scan on Drive
| | A was ok as well but didnt do another thorough scan, advised not to by
a
| few
| | of you. But the original thorough scan from cluster 1518 came up with
| | "Scandisk could not properly read or write to cluster...... This
cluster
| is
| | currently unused but should be marked as bad so windows does not
attempt
| to
| | store data in it in future, this went on until I stopped at cluster
1527,
| | some repaired some didnt.
| | I noticed that when I tried to bring up some entries on the floppy,
the
| ones
| | that wouldnt come up made a clicking noise. So, I am unsure if
replacing
| the
| | floppy hardware would be the right thing to do, please tell me what
you
| | think????
|
| Hmm, your indicating that the drive tries to read and repair the
disk(s),
| so you apparently have some control over the floppy disk. The clicking
noise
| can be created by a number of things related to damaged floppies:
| Corrupted fat;
| corrupted MBR;
| scratched disk surface;
| wrong format [such as an "extended disk" format] being "attempted" read
as
| 1.44 when its actually formatted 1.8 [certain older install disks
| generally];
| corrupted disks due to magnetic degradation [which happens to be my
major
| problem with my old floppy disk collection];
| ...; or,
| as you fear, hardware failure.
| However, you also state that you were successful with other floppies,
so
| that would appear to indicate individual disk corruption or failure to
read
| or support the format [or possibly a dirty drive]. Also, you have used
| Windows to view the disks [My Computer or Explorer] and worked with
other
| disks.
|
| You previously stated that the computer would freeze trying to access
some
| of the disks in Windows. Did removing the drive entry at least correct
some
| of that problem?
|
| SUMMARY:
|
| Unless you followed the instructions to check for and remove extra/any
| FLOPPY drive entries in SAFE MODE, you may still have improper access to
the
| floppy drive. Please read and follow my original post on 01/10/07, with
the
| indicated BIOS check [above], and Find New Hardware should it not appear
| after Normal startup.
|
| You should have an entry for the floppy drive in Device Manager, in
Normal
| mode, AFTER any removal. It may continue to work but it isn't properly
| registered. Possibly supported through BIOS support, not the full
Windows
| driver support, unless there is a "ghost drive".
|
| What you have described appears to indicate individual disk corruption,
| rather than drive failure, or a dirty drive. If, after following the
above,
| there are still issues with individual disks, direction can be given by
the
| group for recovery attempts.
|
| | I noticed when the tower was open that an auxillary fan wasnt going,
the
| one
| | in the power supply was, should this auxillary fan have been going,
the
| | computer had been on at least 3 hours. Hoping you can advise me. Many
| thanks
| | from Margie.
|
| Likely it should, though since we don't know what the computer in
question
| is, or its age, we really can't correctly advise you one way or the
other.
| It may have chip controlled heat monitoring, which could have shut off
the
| fan entirely.
| Apparently, though, its not a newer computer [your in the Win98
discussion
| group working with floppies and indicated an elderly neighbor] so it
would
| appear that it should be running, particularly if there is no fan on the
| processor and generally, the video card, after running for three hours.
Best
| check for sure, as heat will kill a computer's delicate electronics.
|
| |
| | "MEB" wrote:
| |
| | Next time your in Safe Mode look for duplicate floppy entries in
Device
| | Manager. Make Notes of what is found.
| | Start Settings Control Panel System Device Manager Disk
| Drives -
| | Delete all entries for the floppy
| | GO next to Floppy Disk Controllers, while in Device Manager, and
delete
| the
| | controller (making note if more than one).
| | While in Device manager and "Disk Drives" make note of the number
of
| hard
| | drives shown. Also check under Hard disk Controllers the number of
| | drivers/entries found and what is shown.
| |
| | Restart in normal mode, computer should find and replace the floppy
| drive
| | with freshened drivers. Check by going back the same way to Device
| Manager.
| | If not go to:
| | Start Settings Control Panel Add New Hardware and let it
search.
| |
| | Post back with the results if you would please.
| |
| | --
| | MEB
| | http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/
| | BLOG - http://peoplescounsel.spaces.live.com/ Public Notice or the
"real
| | world"
| | Forum - http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/xforum - requires
registration
| due
| | to AD abuse
| |
| | "Most people, sometime in their lives, stumble across truth.
| | Most jump up, brush themselves off, and hurry on about their
business as
| if
| | nothing had happen." Winston Churchill
| | Or to put it another way:
| | Morpheus can offer you the two pills;
| | but only you can choose whether you take the red pill or the blue
one.
| | _______________
| |
| | "margie" wrote in message
| | ...
| | | HP Pavillion 6611 my elderly neighbour is having trouble with his
| floppy
| | | discs. Slow to bring up and computer freezing. I tried to do a
| diskscan
| | in
| | | safe mode but it will not finish, comes up with errors and
unfixable
| ones.
| | I
| | | have checked all the internal connections and they seem ok,
spyware
| check,
| | | virus check, I think it is time to replace the hardware, any help
| would be
| | | appreciated.
| | | --
| | | margie
| |
| |
| |
|
|
| --
| MEB
| http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/
| BLOG - http://peoplescounsel.spaces.live.com/ Public Notice or the "real
| world"
| Forum - http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/xforum - requires registration
due
| to AD abuse
|
| "Most people, sometime in their lives, stumble across truth.
| Most jump up, brush themselves off, and hurry on about their business as
if
| nothing had happen." Winston Churchill
| Or to put it another way:
| Morpheus can offer you the two pills;
| but only you can choose whether you take the red pill or the blue one.
| _______________
|
|
|

Oh, best pickup some heatsink compound, preferably Arctic Silver to replace
the old between the processor and the fan.
Be careful not to get it on any electrical leads, the card "fingers" [slot
1] or any pins [socket 370 or others].
If you have difficulty locating a replacement fan; Radio Shack, or another
electronic supply store may have a possible replacement. Try to get a ball
bearing fan [tell them what you need it for].

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/
BLOG - http://peoplescounsel.spaces.live.com/ Public Notice or the "real
world"
Forum - http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/xforum - requires registration due
to AD abuse

"Most people, sometime in their lives, stumble across truth.
Most jump up, brush themselves off, and hurry on about their business as if
nothing had happen." Winston Churchill
Or to put it another way:
Morpheus can offer you the two pills;
but only you can choose whether you take the red pill or the blue one.
_______________

thanks for all of your help.
--
margie


"MEB" wrote:




"margie" wrote in message
...

Sorry margie, I should have asked these from day one.

What operating system and version does the neighbor run?

What is the target computer's make and model number?

Did you check in the BIOS for its settings?

What disks are you/the neighbor having trouble with, an install set, a
backup set, or what?

How many disks are failing, all, some, just some specific ones?

| Thank you to all who have helped. I spent quite some time today checking
out
| the floppy drive and found some files wouldnt open and I couldnt delete
them.
| Others were perfectly ok and I managed to save and open and delete files
from
| various programmes successfully.
| I went into device manager and there were two disk drives: Generic IDE
Disk
| Type 01 and Generic NEC floppy disk, I deleted both and rebooted and the
NEC
| didnt come back on reboot.

This was in Safe mode that you deleted the drives as I advised, right?

The generic IDE is the hard drive, the Generic NEC was the floppy. You need
both showing in normal mode.
If you did this removal in normal mode you will not see doubled drivers or
get the results you need. Starting in Safe Mode is the only sure way to
ensure you achieve the viewing, removal, and replacement.

I also advised to run Find New Hardware AFTER the Safe Mode removals, in
NORMAL MODE, if the floppy drive did not re-appear.

| I did the MS-DOS command prompt copy a:\*.* nul but the files I couldnt
| bring up on the floppy wouldnt come up here either. "Read fault error
reading
| drive A. Abort, retry Fail. Files that did come up on the floppy were
listed.

Okay, that floppy disk is damaged. You may have to Recover what files you
can off of it with a Recovery tool. DO NOT RUN SCAN DISK OR DEFRAG ON THESE
DISKS, or try any further access or recovery via normal Windows or DOS means
if this information or program is important.

| I did a thorough scan on C drive and it was ok.

Okay, that's out of the way.

| The standard scan on Drive
| A was ok as well but didnt do another thorough scan, advised not to by a
few
| of you. But the original thorough scan from cluster 1518 came up with
| "Scandisk could not properly read or write to cluster...... This cluster
is
| currently unused but should be marked as bad so windows does not attempt
to
| store data in it in future, this went on until I stopped at cluster 1527,
| some repaired some didnt.
| I noticed that when I tried to bring up some entries on the floppy, the
ones
| that wouldnt come up made a clicking noise. So, I am unsure if replacing
the
| floppy hardware would be the right thing to do, please tell me what you
| think????

Hmm, your indicating that the drive tries to read and repair the disk(s),
so you apparently have some control over the floppy disk. The clicking noise
can be created by a number of things related to damaged floppies:
Corrupted fat;
corrupted MBR;
scratched disk surface;
wrong format [such as an "extended disk" format] being "attempted" read as
1.44 when its actually formatted 1.8 [certain older install disks
generally];
corrupted disks due to magnetic degradation [which happens to be my major
problem with my old floppy disk collection];
...; or,
as you fear, hardware failure.
However, you also state that you were successful with other floppies, so
that would appear to indicate individual disk corruption or failure to read
or support the format [or possibly a dirty drive]. Also, you have used
Windows to view the disks [My Computer or Explorer] and worked with other
disks.

You previously stated that the computer would freeze trying to access some
of the disks in Windows. Did removing the drive entry at least correct some
of that problem?

SUMMARY:

Unless you followed the instructions to check for and remove extra/any
FLOPPY drive entries in SAFE MODE, you may still have improper access to the
floppy drive. Please read and follow my original post on 01/10/07, with the
indicated BIOS check [above], and Find New Hardware should it not appear
after Normal startup.

You should have an entry for the floppy drive in Device Manager, in Normal
mode, AFTER any removal. It may continue to work but it isn't properly
registered. Possibly supported through BIOS support, not the full Windows
driver support, unless there is a "ghost drive".

What you have described appears to indicate individual disk corruption,
rather than drive failure, or a dirty drive. If, after following the above,
there are still issues with individual disks, direction can be given by the
group for recovery attempts.

| I noticed when the tower was open that an auxillary fan wasnt going, the
one
| in the power supply was, should this auxillary fan have been going, the
| computer had been on at least 3 hours. Hoping you can advise me. Many
thanks
| from Margie.

Likely it should, though since we don't know what the computer in question
is, or its age, we really can't correctly advise you one way or the other.
It may have chip controlled heat monitoring, which could have shut off the
fan entirely.
Apparently, though, its not a newer computer [your in the Win98 discussion
group working with floppies and indicated an elderly neighbor] so it would
appear that it should be running, particularly if there is no fan on the
processor and generally, the video card, after running for three hours. Best
check for sure, as heat will kill a computer's delicate electronics.

|
| "MEB" wrote:
|
| Next time your in Safe Mode look for duplicate floppy entries in Device
| Manager. Make Notes of what is found.
| Start Settings Control Panel System Device Manager Disk
Drives -
| Delete all entries for the floppy
| GO next to Floppy Disk Controllers, while in Device Manager, and delete
the
| controller (making note if more than one).
| While in Device manager and "Disk Drives" make note of the number of
hard
| drives shown. Also check under Hard disk Controllers the number of
| drivers/entries found and what is shown.
|
| Restart in normal mode, computer should find and replace the floppy
drive
| with freshened drivers. Check by going back the same way to Device
Manager.
| If not go to:
| Start Settings Control Panel Add New Hardware and let it search.
|
| Post back with the results if you would please.
|
| --
| MEB
| http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/
| BLOG - http://peoplescounsel.spaces.live.com/ Public Notice or the "real
| world"
| Forum - http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/xforum - requires registration
due
| to AD abuse
|
| "Most people, sometime in their lives, stumble across truth.
| Most jump up, brush themselves off, and hurry on about their business as
if
| nothing had happen." Winston Churchill
| Or to put it another way:
| Morpheus can offer you the two pills;
| but only you can choose whether you take the red pill or the blue one.
| _______________
|
| "margie" wrote in message
| ...
| | HP Pavillion 6611 my elderly neighbour is having trouble with his
floppy
| | discs. Slow to bring up and computer freezing. I tried to do a
diskscan
| in
| | safe mode but it will not finish, comes up with errors and unfixable
ones.
| I
| | have checked all the internal connections and they seem ok, spyware
check,
| | virus check, I think it is time to replace the hardware, any help
would be
| | appreciated.
| | --
| | margie
|
|
|


--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/
BLOG - http://peoplescounsel.spaces.live.com/ Public Notice or the "real
world"
Forum - http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/xforum - requires registration due
to AD abuse

"Most people, sometime in their lives, stumble across truth.
Most jump up, brush themselves off, and hurry on about their business as if
nothing had happen." Winston Churchill
Or to put it another way:
Morpheus can offer you the two pills;
but only you can choose whether you take the red pill or the blue one.
_______________

"margie" wrote in message
...
| thanks for all of your help.
| --
| margie
|

Everyone tries to help in their own fashion.
I admit I needed a good reminder to proceed through my own SRTSP of all
aspects of hardware first, software second.

Let us know how it works out, so we can help your neighbor continue to
enjoy his computer, by testing a few things. Okay?

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/
BLOG - http://peoplescounsel.spaces.live.com/ Public Notice or the "real
world"
Forum - http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/xforum - requires registration due
to AD abuse

"Most people, sometime in their lives, stumble across truth.
Most jump up, brush themselves off, and hurry on about their business as if
nothing had happen." Winston Churchill
Or to put it another way:
Morpheus can offer you the two pills;
but only you can choose whether you take the red pill or the blue one.
_______________