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A screen question.



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 8th 19, 11:08 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.windows7.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 25
Default A screen question.

In message , Peter Jason
writes:
Hi, I wear glasses for astigmatism etc and I wonder if it's possible
to buy a monitor whose screen can be adjusted for this & similar
conditions?


What a fascinating question, and excellent lateral thinking on your
part!

I thought I knew what astigmatism was, and just checked with wikipedia,
and it's a lot more complicated than I thought - so I'll go with my
original thought, that it means the lenses in your eyes mean you see the
world as either stretched or compressed vertically - circles appear as
ovals, and people appear either tall and thin or short and fat - and
your glasses correct for this. And you were wondering if it's possible
to find a monitor you can use without wearing your glasses.

Depending on your degree of astigmatism, an old CRT monitor with height
and/or width controls might be of use, but not only will those now be
hard to find, but I don't think the adjustment is very much.

An alternative would be to deliberately set your graphics card
(including the in-built one if it's a laptop) to a resolution that's the
wrong aspect ratio for your monitor. I've seen people do this often
enough in practice, by mistake (most commonly feeding a widescreen
monitor with a 4:3 signal); it had never occurred to me that it might
actually be useful!

If your astigmatism means you see the world stretched vertically, then
using a widescreen monitor (the common type nowadays), but with the
graphics card set to suit a 4:3 monitor, will give you fat pictures. If
you naturally see the world as short and fat, then using a widescreen
mode on a 4:3 monitor (you can still get them, I think - just harder to
find. Should be able to find them second-hand no problem!) should help.

Three problems with this "solution":

0. With any monitor that has a "native resolution", i. e. pixels, which
means any modern flat-screen monitor, using it at other than its native
resolution (or an integral fraction thereof) will result in _some_
blurring. This may still be acceptable as the cost for not wearing your
glasses. (It won't apply to a CRT monitor!)

1. Some modern monitors and graphics cards talk to each other, which
might mean that the graphics card knows what shape the monitor is, and
may refuse to offer "incorrect" resolutions. To get round this, you
might have to do one or more of the following: select "generic" rather
than specific monitor; use analogue (SVGA) rather than anything more
recent (IMO, the difference is far less than claimed in most cases - not
visible to me); even with SVGA, you might have to cut a wire/pin.

2. The range of ratio "corrections" (distortions) available will be
limited - possibly only to the difference between 16:9 and 4:3. You can
expand the range somewhat by turning your monitor sideways: modern OSs
(I think XP on, possibly earlier) have the ability to turn the picture
sideways, though how to invoke it isn't widely known. (Sometimes it's as
simple as the arrow keys with other keys.)

There are utilities that can force your graphics card to output
non-standard resolutions; I imagine how well these work varies from card
to card. (Note that in extreme cases this _could_ damage the monitor,
though I think only for very old CRT ones - modern ones, including later
CRT ones, usually detect "out-of-range" feeds, and pop up a notice to
that effect on screen, or at least just go blank, or display an unlocked
picture.)

I'd say it's definitely worth investigating these avenues - conventional
monitors (of the two shapes) used with unorthodox resolution settings,
and the possibility of using them sideways.

P. S.: before messing with resolutions (including going sideways), I'd
say it's worth getting hold of one of the free utilities that can store
your icon positions, and put them back: changing resolution does tend to
muck them up. I normally use iconoid (https://www.sillysot.com/ - yes,
that really is the URL!); another, slightly quirkier one but the only
one I know that actually has the option to save the settings in a real
file rather than buried in the registry somewhere, is desktopOK.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

science is not intended to be foolproof. Science is about crawling toward the
truth over time. - Scott Adams, 2015-2-2
  #2  
Old September 8th 19, 01:05 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.windows7.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
SC Tom
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default A screen question.



"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message
...
In message , Peter Jason
writes:
Hi, I wear glasses for astigmatism etc and I wonder if it's possible
to buy a monitor whose screen can be adjusted for this & similar
conditions?


What a fascinating question, and excellent lateral thinking on your part!

I thought I knew what astigmatism was, and just checked with wikipedia,
and it's a lot more complicated than I thought - so I'll go with my
original thought, that it means the lenses in your eyes mean you see the
world as either stretched or compressed vertically - circles appear as
ovals, and people appear either tall and thin or short and fat - and your
glasses correct for this. And you were wondering if it's possible to find
a monitor you can use without wearing your glasses.

Depending on your degree of astigmatism, an old CRT monitor with height
and/or width controls might be of use, but not only will those now be hard
to find, but I don't think the adjustment is very much.

An alternative would be to deliberately set your graphics card (including
the in-built one if it's a laptop) to a resolution that's the wrong aspect
ratio for your monitor. I've seen people do this often enough in practice,
by mistake (most commonly feeding a widescreen monitor with a 4:3 signal);
it had never occurred to me that it might actually be useful!

If your astigmatism means you see the world stretched vertically, then
using a widescreen monitor (the common type nowadays), but with the
graphics card set to suit a 4:3 monitor, will give you fat pictures. If
you naturally see the world as short and fat, then using a widescreen mode
on a 4:3 monitor (you can still get them, I think - just harder to find.
Should be able to find them second-hand no problem!) should help.

Three problems with this "solution":

0. With any monitor that has a "native resolution", i. e. pixels, which
means any modern flat-screen monitor, using it at other than its native
resolution (or an integral fraction thereof) will result in _some_
blurring. This may still be acceptable as the cost for not wearing your
glasses. (It won't apply to a CRT monitor!)

1. Some modern monitors and graphics cards talk to each other, which might
mean that the graphics card knows what shape the monitor is, and may
refuse to offer "incorrect" resolutions. To get round this, you might have
to do one or more of the following: select "generic" rather than specific
monitor; use analogue (SVGA) rather than anything more recent (IMO, the
difference is far less than claimed in most cases - not visible to me);
even with SVGA, you might have to cut a wire/pin.

2. The range of ratio "corrections" (distortions) available will be
limited - possibly only to the difference between 16:9 and 4:3. You can
expand the range somewhat by turning your monitor sideways: modern OSs (I
think XP on, possibly earlier) have the ability to turn the picture
sideways, though how to invoke it isn't widely known. (Sometimes it's as
simple as the arrow keys with other keys.)

There are utilities that can force your graphics card to output
non-standard resolutions; I imagine how well these work varies from card
to card. (Note that in extreme cases this _could_ damage the monitor,
though I think only for very old CRT ones - modern ones, including later
CRT ones, usually detect "out-of-range" feeds, and pop up a notice to that
effect on screen, or at least just go blank, or display an unlocked
picture.)

I'd say it's definitely worth investigating these avenues - conventional
monitors (of the two shapes) used with unorthodox resolution settings, and
the possibility of using them sideways.

P. S.: before messing with resolutions (including going sideways), I'd say
it's worth getting hold of one of the free utilities that can store your
icon positions, and put them back: changing resolution does tend to muck
them up. I normally use iconoid (https://www.sillysot.com/ - yes, that
really is the URL!); another, slightly quirkier one but the only one I
know that actually has the option to save the settings in a real file
rather than buried in the registry somewhere, is desktopOK.


Unfortunately, unless your astigmatism is equal in both eyes, and your
vision is equal in both eyes as well, there's not much you can do to adjust
a monitor for that. As one who has 20/200 vision in one eye, 20/400 in the
other, and moderately bad astigmatism in only one eye (my "good" one, of
course), I can absolutely state that there is nothing that can be done to a
monitor that would help me see anything clearer without my specs :-)
--

SC Tom


  #3  
Old September 8th 19, 02:28 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.windows7.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
Johnny[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default A screen question.

On Sun, 8 Sep 2019 11:08:35 +0100
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote:

In message , Peter Jason
writes:
Hi, I wear glasses for astigmatism etc and I wonder if it's possible
to buy a monitor whose screen can be adjusted for this & similar
conditions?


What a fascinating question, and excellent lateral thinking on your
part!

I thought I knew what astigmatism was, and just checked with
wikipedia, and it's a lot more complicated than I thought - so I'll
go with my original thought, that it means the lenses in your eyes
mean you see the world as either stretched or compressed vertically -
circles appear as ovals, and people appear either tall and thin or
short and fat - and your glasses correct for this. And you were
wondering if it's possible to find a monitor you can use without
wearing your glasses.


I have astigmatism and that is not how the world appears, nothing is
compressed or stretched.

In my case when looking at the letter E on an eye chart, the vertical
line is sharp and clear, but the horizontal lines are blurry.

Fortunately my eyesight is correctable to 20/20.


  #4  
Old September 8th 19, 05:43 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.windows7.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 25
Default A screen question.

In message , SC Tom writes:


"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message
...
In message , Peter Jason
writes:
Hi, I wear glasses for astigmatism etc and I wonder if it's possible
to buy a monitor whose screen can be adjusted for this & similar
conditions?


What a fascinating question, and excellent lateral thinking on your part!

I thought I knew what astigmatism was, and just checked with

[]
Unfortunately, unless your astigmatism is equal in both eyes, and your
vision is equal in both eyes as well, there's not much you can do to
adjust a monitor for that. As one who has 20/200 vision in one eye,
20/400 in the other, and moderately bad astigmatism in only one eye (my
"good" one, of course), I can absolutely state that there is nothing
that can be done to a monitor that would help me see anything clearer
without my specs :-)


The original poster Peter Jason didn't say he only had it in one eye.

I you're still reading, Peter - what _is_ the nature of your
astigmatism: is it different _gain_ in the X and Y directions (making
circles look oval), different _focus_ (as described by Johnny and
Wikipedia), or something else? And _are_ your eyes different (to each
other)?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Norman Tebbitt has the irritating quality of being much nicer in person than
he is in print. - Clive Anderson, RT 1996/10/12-18
  #5  
Old September 8th 19, 06:55 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.windows7.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
David E. Ross
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default A screen question.

On 9/8/2019 9:43 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , SC Tom writes:


"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message
...
In message , Peter Jason
writes:
Hi, I wear glasses for astigmatism etc and I wonder if it's possible
to buy a monitor whose screen can be adjusted for this & similar
conditions?

What a fascinating question, and excellent lateral thinking on your part!

I thought I knew what astigmatism was, and just checked with

[]
Unfortunately, unless your astigmatism is equal in both eyes, and your
vision is equal in both eyes as well, there's not much you can do to
adjust a monitor for that. As one who has 20/200 vision in one eye,
20/400 in the other, and moderately bad astigmatism in only one eye (my
"good" one, of course), I can absolutely state that there is nothing
that can be done to a monitor that would help me see anything clearer
without my specs :-)


The original poster Peter Jason didn't say he only had it in one eye.

I you're still reading, Peter - what _is_ the nature of your
astigmatism: is it different _gain_ in the X and Y directions (making
circles look oval), different _focus_ (as described by Johnny and
Wikipedia), or something else? And _are_ your eyes different (to each
other)?


Astigmatism can be caused by an irregularity in the eye's cornea or
lens. It might be in only one eye. If it is in both eyes, it is often
not the same in each eye.

While the usual irregularity is a curvature that differs between the
vertical and horizontal, it is also possible that the curvature is "off"
on a diagonal. In some cases, however, the irregularity can be a
waviness in the cornea or lens.

Given all this, I really do not think any adjustment to a computer
monitor would substitute for eye glasses, contact lenses, or eye surgery.

--
David E. Ross
http://www.rossde.com/

Immigration authorities arrested 680 undocumented aliens in meat
processing facilities in Mississippi. Employing someone who is not
legally in the U.S. is also illegal. How many of the EMPLOYERS are
being criminally charged? If none, why not?
  #6  
Old September 8th 19, 10:26 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.windows7.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
Big Bad Bob
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default A screen question.

On 2019-09-08 03:08, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Peter Jason
writes:
Hi, I wear glasses for astigmatism etc and I wonder if it's possible
to buy a monitor whose screen can be adjusted for this & similar
conditions?


What a fascinating question, and excellent lateral thinking on your part!

I thought I knew what astigmatism was, and just checked with wikipedia,
and it's a lot more complicated than I thought


based on what optometrists do with glasses to correct for it,
astigmatisms are more than likely inconsistent focusing across various
parts of the eye. So whereas glasses correct for it, maybe you need
different prescriptions for close work than for "general vision"

some form of "computer only" glasses, seem to be the way to go.
Bifocals only work when you look down, and nobody does that with their
monitors [maybe phones/slabs but not desktops]

  #7  
Old September 8th 19, 11:18 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.windows7.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
Peter Jason
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default A screen question.

On Sun, 8 Sep 2019 17:43:25 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , SC Tom writes:


"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message
...
In message , Peter Jason
writes:
Hi, I wear glasses for astigmatism etc and I wonder if it's possible
to buy a monitor whose screen can be adjusted for this & similar
conditions?

What a fascinating question, and excellent lateral thinking on your part!

I thought I knew what astigmatism was, and just checked with

[]
Unfortunately, unless your astigmatism is equal in both eyes, and your
vision is equal in both eyes as well, there's not much you can do to
adjust a monitor for that. As one who has 20/200 vision in one eye,
20/400 in the other, and moderately bad astigmatism in only one eye (my
"good" one, of course), I can absolutely state that there is nothing
that can be done to a monitor that would help me see anything clearer
without my specs :-)


The original poster Peter Jason didn't say he only had it in one eye.

I you're still reading, Peter - what _is_ the nature of your
astigmatism: is it different _gain_ in the X and Y directions (making
circles look oval), different _focus_ (as described by Johnny and
Wikipedia), or something else? And _are_ your eyes different (to each
other)?


Here are the current facts....
https://postimg.cc/QKKrrdpx
Of course I have the latest progressive lenses which work very well.
Adjustable eyeglasses can work but not too well at my level of
corrections.

Looking down onto the desk while writing & then up to look at the
screen might require a set of "inverse" progressives such as billiard
players use, and this might be the solution in my case.
  #8  
Old September 8th 19, 11:52 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.windows7.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
David E. Ross
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default A screen question.

On 9/8/2019 2:26 PM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
On 2019-09-08 03:08, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Peter Jason
writes:
Hi, I wear glasses for astigmatism etc and I wonder if it's possible
to buy a monitor whose screen can be adjusted for this & similar
conditions?


What a fascinating question, and excellent lateral thinking on your part!

I thought I knew what astigmatism was, and just checked with wikipedia,
and it's a lot more complicated than I thought


based on what optometrists do with glasses to correct for it,
astigmatisms are more than likely inconsistent focusing across various
parts of the eye. So whereas glasses correct for it, maybe you need
different prescriptions for close work than for "general vision"

some form of "computer only" glasses, seem to be the way to go.
Bifocals only work when you look down, and nobody does that with their
monitors [maybe phones/slabs but not desktops]


I have two pair of bifocal eye glasses. One pair is for general use,
with distance-viewing lenses on top and reading lenses on the bottom. I
use these for driving, around the house, viewing TV, and anything else
NOT involving a computer. The other pair is for computer use, with the
top lenses for sharp viewing at a distance of 1-3 arm-lengths (even a
bit more with some strain) and the same reading lenses on the bottom as
I have with my general pair.

I do not use a touch-screen computer. As I type this, I am sitting
about 2 arms-lengths from my monitor, slightly tilted back in my office
chair, and with my feet up on a footstool that is under my computer
desk. That is why the top lenses of my computer bifocals focus at 1-3
arm-lengths.

When I go to a museum, I bring my computer glasses with me. With them,
I do not need to stand real close (making the guards nervous) or far
away (where I cannot see details) to view an exhibit or piece of art.

For several years now, my ophthalmologist has said I am five years away
from needing cataract surgery. When I finally have it done, I will
request lens implants for distance and get new computer glasses. I will
also pay the difference between what Medicare pays so that the implants
correct for my astigmatism. I will then not require glasses except for
reading and using my computer.

--
David E. Ross
http://www.rossde.com/

Immigration authorities arrested 680 undocumented aliens in meat
processing facilities in Mississippi. Employing someone who is not
legally in the U.S. is also illegal. How many of the EMPLOYERS are
being criminally charged? If none, why not?
  #9  
Old September 9th 19, 12:24 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.windows7.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
Carlos E.R.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default A screen question.

On 08/09/2019 12.08, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Peter Jason
writes:
Hi, I wear glasses for astigmatism etc and I wonder if it's possible
to buy a monitor whose screen can be adjusted for this & similar
conditions?


What a fascinating question, and excellent lateral thinking on your part!


(wikipedia is currently not working on my side, connection times out)


I thought I knew what astigmatism was, and just checked with wikipedia,
and it's a lot more complicated than I thought - so I'll go with my
original thought, that it means the lenses in your eyes mean you see the
world as either stretched or compressed vertically - circles appear as
ovals, and people appear either tall and thin or short and fat - and
your glasses correct for this. And you were wondering if it's possible
to find a monitor you can use without wearing your glasses.


This might be corrected by software designed to deform the display, yes.
But the deformation in the eye also means, I understand, that the focus
changes, and that can not be corrected in the display.

You'd have to ask optics experts first. If they say that a deformation
of the display could compensate for astigmatism, then start looking for
software to achieve that.

Methinks that the user would get a headache that way: part of the visual
field corrected and part not.

--
Cheers, Carlos.
  #10  
Old September 9th 19, 11:07 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.windows7.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
Ken Springer[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 49
Default A screen question.

On 9/8/19 4:08 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Peter Jason
writes:
Hi, I wear glasses for astigmatism etc and I wonder if it's possible
to buy a monitor whose screen can be adjusted for this & similar
conditions?


snip

An alternative would be to deliberately set your graphics card
(including the in-built one if it's a laptop) to a resolution that's the
wrong aspect ratio for your monitor. I've seen people do this often
enough in practice, by mistake (most commonly feeding a widescreen
monitor with a 4:3 signal); it had never occurred to me that it might
actually be useful!


Now... Add in some macular degeneration. That would be me. VBG

You may remember the thread I started where I asked about computing the
aspect ratio of a monitor based on screen resolution. I've found @50
different resolutions you may come across, depending on hardware.

I bought a new Mac Mini to replace an aging iMac. I bought the iMac due
to the visual quality of the display. So I wanted a monitor with the
best video I could afford. So I went on a research trip.

I'd already learned some monitors cannot display light greys, light
blues, and thin lines. Although the line issue may be tied to the color
of the line. I don't know.

I learned the best LCD panel for display of colors is an ISP type panel.
So, that's what I bought.

And boy, am I glad I did. I learned some monitors also cannot display
light yellows!

0. With any monitor that has a "native resolution", i. e. pixels, which
means any modern flat-screen monitor, using it at other than its native
resolution (or an integral fraction thereof) will result in _some_
blurring. This may still be acceptable as the cost for not wearing your
glasses. (It won't apply to a CRT monitor!)


Correct on the blurring, but depending on what you buy for an monitor,
and the settins you use, blurring may not be noticeable, although the
extent of failure of your eyesight may come into play.

I'd rather be able to read the screen with barely noticeable blurring,
than fight with the recommended resolution to figure out what is on the
screen.

With my situation, the blurring of the screen is not noticeable. More
than likely, that's the result of a combo of factors, it's not a cheapie
monitor, It's a monitor and not a TV, the chosen alternative resolution
has the same aspect ratio as the native resolution.

1. Some modern monitors and graphics cards talk to each other, which
might mean that the graphics card knows what shape the monitor is, and
may refuse to offer "incorrect" resolutions.


What's your definition of "incorrect" resolutions?

If magnification is something you need, you will want an alternative
resolution that has the same aspect ratio as the native resolution. With
the Windows units I've tested, dragging the resolution slider up and
down will show multiple options, but only those resolutions that are
listed when you are not dragging the slider have the same aspect ratio.

My Mac Mini only offers resolutions that are the correct aspect ratio.
And, they are same as what is offered by Windows, as far as I can tell.

To get round this, you
might have to do one or more of the following: select "generic" rather
than specific monitor; use analogue (SVGA) rather than anything more
recent (IMO, the difference is far less than claimed in most cases - not
visible to me); even with SVGA, you might have to cut a wire/pin.


If you're using a laptop, need magnification, and are unwilling to buy
an external monitor, I'd recommend giving up now. SVGA (800X600) just
won't display enough data on the screen to be useful, IMO.

2. The range of ratio "corrections" (distortions) available will be
limited - possibly only to the difference between 16:9 and 4:3. You can
expand the range somewhat by turning your monitor sideways: modern OSs
(I think XP on, possibly earlier) have the ability to turn the picture
sideways, though how to invoke it isn't widely known. (Sometimes it's as
simple as the arrow keys with other keys.)


I think the need for rotating the monitor is generally limited. You're
not going to gain anything visually from what I can see with my testing
on this monitor. Instead of having 1920 X 1200, you have 1200 X 1920.

There are utilities that can force your graphics card to output
non-standard resolutions; I imagine how well these work varies from card
to card. (Note that in extreme cases this _could_ damage the monitor,
though I think only for very old CRT ones - modern ones, including later
CRT ones, usually detect "out-of-range" feeds, and pop up a notice to
that effect on screen, or at least just go blank, or display an unlocked
picture.)

I'd say it's definitely worth investigating these avenues - conventional
monitors (of the two shapes) used with unorthodox resolution settings,
and the possibility of using them sideways.


Agreed, check all avenues before choosing.

I purchased a 24" Asus Pro-Art monitor. $369, shipped and sold by
Amazon, for the Mac Mini. On my W7, W8, W10, Linux mint (KVM switched)
is a Dell U2412M. Both are IPS panels, although I didn't know anything
about the panel types when bought the Dell. Not quite as good, but it
was cheaper.

Input is display port, and based on limited options for testing HDMI
input, I'd avoid that option if possible. VGA was OK, but I had no
means to check DVI.

Both have an aspect ration of 16:10. After 10+ years of the iMac with
16:10, I just don't want 16:9.

I wanted to go 27", but but couldn't find anything that fit my specs.

32" is what I really would have liked, but physical, available space
prevented that.


--
Ken
MacOS 10.14.5
Firefox 67.0.4
Thunderbird 60.7
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"
 




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