Not Spam, but Notice to change links

"Rick Chauvin" wrote in message ...


"Bill Blanton" wrote in message


[...]

Rick, I don't think your system is on daylight savings time? EST should
be GMT-400 during DST, and -500 when not.


It could be that he turned off the "auto adjust" and set his clock back
manually. The clocks right, but offset is off.

[...]

Hi Bill,

You are quite right on all counts Bill.
I am in EST but as you said my computer is set GMT-0500 and yes I do have
Auto Adjust turned off and always have set it manually the first of the
year. I've done that since Win9x because back then it drove me crazy when
auto adjust was on it would scramble my Desktop icons when it auto
adjusted, and so out of habit right along had set my W2K/WXP that way too,
and have been staying booted and posting with XP this year anyway. I
assume XP/2K never scrambles desktop icons after an time auto adjust?

I've never seen XP scramble (or unscramble) desktop icons for that reason,
though I have a vague recollection of what you mention on some 9x systems.

On a side note; if you have any volumes formatted as NTFS, the displayed
file timestamps will be adjusted when the time offset changes. NTFS stores
timestamps at UTC, and computes in the offset for the display.


I just now check marked the box to Auto Adjust, and my time jumped
ahead an hour which is incorrect, so I manually adjusted the clock back an
hour but leaving the box checkmarked; I hope this solves the problem.

I can't vouch for the clock ;-) , but the offset now looks good..

"MEB" meb@not wrote in message ...

"Bill Blanton" wrote in message
...
| "MEB" meb@not wrote in message
...
| "Bill Blanton" wrote in message
| ...
|
| | which is a
| | simple but rather sloppy way to change the time as that places those
it
| | affects in the wrong geographic regions.
| |
| | GMT is a constant. If you "spring" forward an hour it's necessary to
| "adjust" to
| | reflect the new relationship to the constant. It's important that
| networked
| | systems to use the same time constant. The "time of day" is only for
human
| | consumption ;-)
|
| And that constant is/was GMT. However, GMT also provides area location
| {longitude}, adjusting zone rather than clock is not exactly accurate.
| Example - if I adjust where I'm sitting to -0400
longitude[timezonewise],
| I'm sitting at the bottom of the ocean latitude-wise [somewhere off the
| shore - adjusting my physical location, latitude and longitude,
virtually].
| Granted: *time zones* are not the same as longitude lines, having been
set
| by legislative activities, however, the absolute of GMT [Greenwich Mean
| Time] and its relationship to the world then becomes just another
| manipulative exponent, hardly what can be considered as constant if its
| relationship is and can be varied *virtually*, I think a navigator using
a
| sextant might agree..
|
|
| GMT/UTC is still a constant. The time at longitude 0.
| The (manipulative) variable is the "time zone" factor of the equation.
|
| If you are calculating your geographic location, you need to adjust
| accordingly.

Then what you suggest is that mariners and aviators adjust their
chronometer to DST [should that be required] adding that calculation to the
equation to determine position?

Do they still use chronometers?

I'm not suggesting they do or don't adjust to DST. But yeah, whatever your
clock's offset to the constant, you'd have to calculate that in. There is only
the one "point in time", no matter what the clock reads.

"Bill Blanton" wrote in message

"Rick Chauvin" wrote in message
...


"Bill Blanton" wrote in message


[...]

Rick, I don't think your system is on daylight savings time? EST should
be GMT-400 during DST, and -500 when not.


It could be that he turned off the "auto adjust" and set his clock back
manually. The clocks right, but offset is off.

[...]

Hi Bill,

You are quite right on all counts Bill.
I am in EST but as you said my computer is set GMT-0500 and yes I do
have Auto Adjust turned off and always have set it manually the first
of the year. I've done that since Win9x because back then it drove me
crazy when auto adjust was on it would scramble my Desktop icons when
it auto adjusted, and so out of habit right along had set my W2K/WXP
that way too, and have been staying booted and posting with XP this
year anyway. I assume XP/2K never scrambles desktop icons after an
time auto adjust?

I've never seen XP scramble (or unscramble) desktop icons for that
reason, though I have a vague recollection of what you mention on some 9x
systems.

Okay good, but I've seen XP scramble the order of them in another instance
anyway.


On a side note; if you have any volumes formatted as NTFS, the displayed
file timestamps will be adjusted when the time offset changes. NTFS
stores timestamps at UTC, and computes in the offset for the display.

Okay, good to know.


I just now check marked the box to Auto Adjust, and my time jumped
ahead an hour which is incorrect, so I manually adjusted the clock back
an hour but leaving the box checkmarked; I hope this solves the problem.

I can't vouch for the clock ;-) , but the offset now looks good..

Okay Bill, thank you very much for posting to solve the issue.

I've much appreciated your valuable input over the years.

Rick

...it's almost November, so get your 10 gal frylator out.

"PCR" wrote in message

[....]

You are welcome. Looks to me that did it...!...

Fri, 26 Sep 2008 18:32:44 -0400 9/26/08 6:32 PM

Now I see your OE header date & my OE "sent" column date of your post
match. That is as it should be, because we are in the same time zone. It
didn't occur to me you had the auto time adjustment turned off & did it
manually. Good thinking on Blanton's part as usual. OK, I'm taking you
off my naughty list, Chauvin-- for posting responses before the OP has
posted as you did in an earlier thread!

Excellent, great, and thanks PCR for sticking to your guns on this one, and
you're effort.

Another MVP mentioned on this forum he last year that my date stamp was
off, I think it was Jeff maybe, but I discounted it at the time and thought
it was just my isp server issue; sorry about that Jeff.

I've never noticed my own Desktop got mussed over that the auto date
change. Next time I'll have to go look! But you always could just have
used something like WinTidy to fix that.

I've always seen everyone elses do it on 9x. I personally had lots of
shortcuts in a particular order there, and was a pita to put them back the
way I wanted. I used to take a screenshot of the desktop order now and
then, and save it, so I would have what it was and was quite fussy about
it. I've never liked the idea of installing a third party program to keep
track of my desktop icons, although I tested a number of them, but never
found one I wanted. I don't have to worry about it anymore anyway so it's
a null point.

Thanks for the reply PCR, and MEB too.

Have a good one.

Rick

--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
Should things get worse after this,
PCR

"Bill Blanton" wrote in message
...
|
| "MEB" meb@not wrote in message
...
|
| "Bill Blanton" wrote in message
| ...
| | "MEB" meb@not wrote in message
| ...
| | "Bill Blanton" wrote in message
| | ...
| |
| | | which is a
| | | simple but rather sloppy way to change the time as that places
those
| it
| | | affects in the wrong geographic regions.
| | |
| | | GMT is a constant. If you "spring" forward an hour it's necessary
to
| | "adjust" to
| | | reflect the new relationship to the constant. It's important that
| | networked
| | | systems to use the same time constant. The "time of day" is only
for
| human
| | | consumption ;-)
| |
| | And that constant is/was GMT. However, GMT also provides area
location
| | {longitude}, adjusting zone rather than clock is not exactly
accurate.
| | Example - if I adjust where I'm sitting to -0400
| longitude[timezonewise],
| | I'm sitting at the bottom of the ocean latitude-wise [somewhere off
the
| | shore - adjusting my physical location, latitude and longitude,
| virtually].
| | Granted: *time zones* are not the same as longitude lines, having
been
| set
| | by legislative activities, however, the absolute of GMT [Greenwich
Mean
| | Time] and its relationship to the world then becomes just another
| | manipulative exponent, hardly what can be considered as constant if
its
| | relationship is and can be varied *virtually*, I think a navigator
using
| a
| | sextant might agree..
| |
| |
| | GMT/UTC is still a constant. The time at longitude 0.
| | The (manipulative) variable is the "time zone" factor of the equation.
| |
| | If you are calculating your geographic location, you need to adjust
| | accordingly.
|
| Then what you suggest is that mariners and aviators adjust their
| chronometer to DST [should that be required] adding that calculation to
the
| equation to determine position?
|
| Do they still use chronometers?
|
| I'm not suggesting they do or don't adjust to DST. But yeah, whatever your
| clock's offset to the constant, you'd have to calculate that in. There is
only
| the one "point in time", no matter what the clock reads.
|

So we come full circle, to how easy, yet sloppy, this time adjustment
method is. The ONLY way to allow this {for this to work} using this method,
is to modify EVERY computer and network around the world each and every time
some modification is made. A failure ANYWHERE throws the entire system off.
This also would seem to allow some vulnerabilities to occur. Server
identifiers, DNS, registrar services, message headers, IP packet formation,
and other, could, potentially, be affected due to actual physical location
variances.

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.org
a Peoples' counsel
_ _
~~

Rick Chauvin wrote:
| "PCR" wrote in message
|
| [....]
|
| You are welcome. Looks to me that did it...!...
|
| Fri, 26 Sep 2008 18:32:44 -0400 9/26/08 6:32 PM
|
| Now I see your OE header date & my OE "sent" column date of your post
| match. That is as it should be, because we are in the same time
| zone. It didn't occur to me you had the auto time adjustment turned
| off & did it manually. Good thinking on Blanton's part as usual. OK,
| I'm taking you off my naughty list, Chauvin-- for posting responses
| before the OP has posted as you did in an earlier thread!
|
| Excellent, great, and thanks PCR for sticking to your guns on this
| one, and you're effort.

You are welcome. But it wouldn't have taken much for you to convince me
mine was the wacky one, until MEB & Blanton dropped in anyhow.

| Another MVP mentioned on this forum he last year that my date stamp
| was off, I think it was Jeff maybe, but I discounted it at the time
| and thought it was just my isp server issue; sorry about that Jeff.

Richards is a sharp one. I must have been there too, & it explains why I
dimly recall this has all happened before.

| I've never noticed my own Desktop got mussed over that the auto date
| change. Next time I'll have to go look! But you always could just
| have used something like WinTidy to fix that.
|
| I've always seen everyone elses do it on 9x. I personally had lots of
| shortcuts in a particular order there, and was a pita to put them
| back the way I wanted. I used to take a screenshot of the desktop
| order now and then, and save it, so I would have what it was and was
| quite fussy about it. I've never liked the idea of installing a
| third party program to keep track of my desktop icons, although I
| tested a number of them, but never found one I wanted. I don't have
| to worry about it anymore anyway so it's a null point.

WinTidy2 (Neil J. Rubenking) is pretty nice. I don't keep it running,
but only start it when necessary. I haven't noticed it to be necessary
except after I've been to Safe Mode & back-- that what musses icon
positions for me for sure.

| Thanks for the reply PCR, and MEB too.

You are welcome.

| Have a good one.

You too. Glad to have been of assistance. It's been a mind-twister. But
Blanton dropped in with the explanation before it was twisted dry!

| Rick
|
| --
| Thanks or Good Luck,
| There may be humor in this post, and,
| Naturally, you will not sue,
| Should things get worse after this,
| PCR
|

--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
Should things get worse after this,
PCR

"MEB" meb@not wrote in message ...
"Bill Blanton" wrote in message

| | GMT/UTC is still a constant. The time at longitude 0.
| | The (manipulative) variable is the "time zone" factor of the equation.
| |
| | If you are calculating your geographic location, you need to adjust
| | accordingly.
|
| Then what you suggest is that mariners and aviators adjust their
| chronometer to DST [should that be required] adding that calculation to the
| equation to determine position?
|

|
| I'm not suggesting they do or don't adjust to DST. But yeah, whatever your
| clock's offset to the constant, you'd have to calculate that in. There is only
| the one "point in time", no matter what the clock reads.
|

So we come full circle, to how easy, yet sloppy, this time adjustment
method is. The ONLY way to allow this {for this to work} using this method,
is to modify EVERY computer and network around the world each and every time
some modification is made.

I don't see it as sloppy really. You have the agreed upon "constant" GMT, and
then you modify that according to your "zone". Add or subtract the offset
from the "clock" to determine "universal time".

What's the alternative? We could all use the GMT/UTC. (I wouldn't have to go
to work until noon, though the sun would be rising).


A failure ANYWHERE throws the entire system off.

It does in a way... though it wasn't too catastrophic in this case.


This also would seem to allow some vulnerabilities to occur. Server
identifiers, DNS, registrar services, message headers, IP packet formation,
and other, could, potentially, be affected due to actual physical location
variances.

That's soemthing to think about...however;

The variances (or offsets of) the "physical location" don't matter as long as
you resolve correctly to the constant..

Where you are doesn't matter as long as your time offset to GMT is correct. I
could set my clock forward 9 more minutes EST/DST, and then fly to the Pacific
coast. As long as I adjust my offset accordingly, say GMT -03:51, and my clock
is still at EST/DST+00:09, then it will resolve to GMT correctly. And if I'm
navigating I need to take that offset into consideration to get the time at
longitude zero.

"Rick Chauvin" wrote in message ...


"Bill Blanton" wrote in message

"Rick Chauvin" wrote in message
...


"Bill Blanton" wrote in message


[...]

Rick, I don't think your system is on daylight savings time? EST should
be GMT-400 during DST, and -500 when not.


It could be that he turned off the "auto adjust" and set his clock back
manually. The clocks right, but offset is off.

[...]

Hi Bill,

You are quite right on all counts Bill.
I am in EST but as you said my computer is set GMT-0500 and yes I do
have Auto Adjust turned off and always have set it manually the first
of the year. I've done that since Win9x because back then it drove me
crazy when auto adjust was on it would scramble my Desktop icons when
it auto adjusted, and so out of habit right along had set my W2K/WXP
that way too, and have been staying booted and posting with XP this
year anyway. I assume XP/2K never scrambles desktop icons after an
time auto adjust?

I've never seen XP scramble (or unscramble) desktop icons for that
reason, though I have a vague recollection of what you mention on some 9x
systems.

Okay good, but I've seen XP scramble the order of them in another instance
anyway.


On a side note; if you have any volumes formatted as NTFS, the displayed
file timestamps will be adjusted when the time offset changes. NTFS
stores timestamps at UTC, and computes in the offset for the display.

Okay, good to know.


I just now check marked the box to Auto Adjust, and my time jumped
ahead an hour which is incorrect, so I manually adjusted the clock back
an hour but leaving the box checkmarked; I hope this solves the problem.

I can't vouch for the clock ;-) , but the offset now looks good..

Okay Bill, thank you very much for posting to solve the issue.

I've much appreciated your valuable input over the years.

Rick

..it's almost November, so get your 10 gal frylator out.

Already?.. It seems like I just got rid of the oil from last year ;-)

"Bill Blanton" wrote in message
...
| "MEB" meb@not wrote in message
...
| "Bill Blanton" wrote in message
|
| | | GMT/UTC is still a constant. The time at longitude 0.
| | | The (manipulative) variable is the "time zone" factor of the
equation.
| | |
| | | If you are calculating your geographic location, you need to
adjust
| | | accordingly.
| |
| | Then what you suggest is that mariners and aviators adjust their
| | chronometer to DST [should that be required] adding that calculation
to the
| | equation to determine position?
| |
|
| |
| | I'm not suggesting they do or don't adjust to DST. But yeah, whatever
your
| | clock's offset to the constant, you'd have to calculate that in. There
is only
| | the one "point in time", no matter what the clock reads.
| |
|
| So we come full circle, to how easy, yet sloppy, this time adjustment
| method is. The ONLY way to allow this {for this to work} using this
method,
| is to modify EVERY computer and network around the world each and every
time
| some modification is made.
|
| I don't see it as sloppy really. You have the agreed upon "constant" GMT,
and
| then you modify that according to your "zone". Add or subtract the offset
| from the "clock" to determine "universal time".
|
| What's the alternative? We could all use the GMT/UTC. (I wouldn't have to
go
| to work until noon, though the sun would be rising).
|
|
| A failure ANYWHERE throws the entire system off.
|
| It does in a way... though it wasn't too catastrophic in this case.
|
|
| This also would seem to allow some vulnerabilities to occur. Server
| identifiers, DNS, registrar services, message headers, IP packet
formation,
| and other, could, potentially, be affected due to actual physical
location
| variances.
|
| That's soemthing to think about...however;
|
| The variances (or offsets of) the "physical location" don't matter as long
as
| you resolve correctly to the constant..
|
| Where you are doesn't matter as long as your time offset to GMT is
correct. I
| could set my clock forward 9 more minutes EST/DST, and then fly to the
Pacific
| coast. As long as I adjust my offset accordingly, say GMT -03:51, and my
clock
| is still at EST/DST+00:09, then it will resolve to GMT correctly. And if
I'm
| navigating I need to take that offset into consideration to get the time
at
| longitude zero.
|

Yes that would work for you, but you ONLY. It would NOT work for the
airline, terminal, flight controllers, or others around you either where you
took off or where you landed.. Nor would it work personally if you needed to
be somewhere at a specific time, UNLESS you constantly adjusted real time to
your private time in addition to any real time offsets [having not further
changed your personal watch/clock].

Need we re-review the [projected and at times real] panic that ensued
during the millenium change over and the BIOS, OS, and related issues [such
as 1999 - 999 - 99]. I think not, as they where reviewed and documented on
hundreds of sites, government bulletins, software updates, BIOS and other
related... what COULD have happened is also well documented, moreover, these
DID cause numerous issues, from electric supply failures, to system and
network crashes, Internet interruption, to numerous others. Of course we
made it through those times... but they DO display both the vulnerabilities
AND other related to any such issues.

Think that might help explain why XP and VISTA use GMT/UTC? And why I think
this is zone shift a sloppy way to provide the changes?

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.org
a Peoples' counsel
_ _
~~

"Bill Blanton" wrote in message


[....]

..it's almost November, so get your 10 gal frylator out.

Already?.. It seems like I just got rid of the oil from last year ;-)

I was told the older you get the faster time seems to go by.

I've found it to be true! The years are flying by way to fast.

One more question about the time thing. When I had check marked the box to
Auto Adjust DST the other day my clock immediately moved ahead a hour, and
so I had to move it back and hour to be correct, now this does not mean
that come 1/1/09 when it changes automatically it's going to be off an hour
again? I assume it will change itself correctly now? Thinking of which,
since I live in NH we have this thing where they do DST a few weeks earlier
than normal, how is that going to work? I never bothered with paying much
attention to all these patches to fix this and that with the time thing,
and just assumed it was included in SP3.

Rick