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#1
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Booting up on a USB flash drive?
I assume that in order to be able to boot up on a USB flash drive (in DOS),
the BIOS in the computer must allow for that option to be selected. And if the computer is too old (like 2002), it likely won't. Case in point: My old Dell Win98 computer here doesn't seem to have this option when I go into BIOS. The ONLY options listed in its BIOS a Floppy ARMD-FDD (for zip drives, as I recall) ARMD-HDD (for zip drives, as I recall) IDE-HDD ATAPI CDROM Is there a workaround? Not that it's necessary, but it might be nice to have. I do have a USB2 card in this computer (allowing me USB2 access *in Windows*), and had also installed nusb23 for its storage drivers, but I don't think these are of any help here if BIOS can't even show the options. And I have the latest BIOS update for this computer (circa 2002). |
#2
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Booting up on a USB flash drive?
On 7/17/2012 12:17 AM, Bill in Co wrote:
I assume that in order to be able to boot up on a USB flash drive (in DOS), the BIOS in the computer must allow for that option to be selected. And if the computer is too old (like 2002), it likely won't. Case in point: My old Dell Win98 computer here doesn't seem to have this option when I go into BIOS. The ONLY options listed in its BIOS a Floppy ARMD-FDD (for zip drives, as I recall) ARMD-HDD (for zip drives, as I recall) IDE-HDD ATAPI CDROM Is there a workaround? Not that it's necessary, but it might be nice to have. I do have a USB2 card in this computer (allowing me USB2 access *in Windows*), and had also installed nusb23 for its storage drivers, but I don't think these are of any help here if BIOS can't even show the options. And I have the latest BIOS update for this computer (circa 2002). Bill in Co: If you boot DOS from a device your MB allows you to boot from you CAN get access to USB *storage* devices from DOS, you just have to load the right drivers. In CONFIG.SYS device=USBASPI.SYS /w /v device=DI1000DD.SYS USBASPI.SYS is available in the self extracting archive "kxlrw40an.exe" at: http://panasonic.jp/com/support/driv.../kxlrw40an.exe The /w switch pauses and displays a bessage to connect a USB device. The /v switch displays verbose messages. DI1000DD.SYS is available in the archive "mhairu.zip" at: http://www.stefan2000.com/darkehorse...USB/mhairu.zip I found these several years ago and have used it with DOS boot floppies and CDs. Very handy to have access to stuff from DOS. The USB storage device is best formatted as a FAT32 drive. If it is NTFS you will have to install NTFS4DOS. http://avira-ntfs4dos-personal.avira-gmbh.qarchive.org/ HTH & GL John -- \\\||/// ------------------o000----(o)(o)----000o---------------- ----------------------------()-------------------------- '' Madness takes its toll - Please have exact change. '' John Dulak - 40.4888ºN,79.899ºW - http://tinyurl.com/3lvoh2n |
#3
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Booting up on a USB flash drive?
Hi John,
I'm a bit confused about something you wrote and how this all works: You said, "If you boot DOS from a device your MB allows you to boot from....." Unless I'm mistaken, that's THE problem I have, since my BIOS can't even detect the device (due to the age of the BIOS, circa 2002). So I was thinking these drivers you mentioned wouldn't help(?) with that particular issue. (I'm not just trying to get access to USB from DOS, but rather, being able to directly BOOT up onto a DOS formatted pen drive). More below. I've already made a DOS bootable flash drive using my WinXP computer, but again, if its plugged in (plugged into the USB2 card), the flash drive isn't even recognized at boot time, and it proceeds to go on to Windows, since again the only drives recognized by this old BIOS are floppy, ARMD, IDE, and CDROM. (I also tried moving ARMD to the top of the boot order list, and it still wouldn't recognize the drive). Am I mistaken in assuming that the only way those drivers (and config.sys) you mentioned can work (at bootup) is only if the BIOS can recognize the drive in the first place (long before config.sys or anything else can happen)? Or am I mistaken? If I'm mistaken, I think you're saying that those drivers would somehow be able to bypass windows at boot time and transfer control over to the flash pen drive, regardless of the BIOS's limitation in even recognizing the device (as shown in the BIOS boot list selections). Thanks and sorry for my confusion here! Bill John Dulak wrote: On 7/17/2012 12:17 AM, Bill in Co wrote: I assume that in order to be able to boot up on a USB flash drive (in DOS), the BIOS in the computer must allow for that option to be selected. And if the computer is too old (like 2002), it likely won't. Case in point: My old Dell Win98 computer here doesn't seem to have this option when I go into BIOS. The ONLY options listed in its BIOS a Floppy ARMD-FDD (for zip drives, as I recall) ARMD-HDD (for zip drives, as I recall) IDE-HDD ATAPI CDROM Is there a workaround? Not that it's necessary, but it might be nice to have. I do have a USB2 card in this computer (allowing me USB2 access *in Windows*), and had also installed nusb23 for its storage drivers, but I don't think these are of any help here if BIOS can't even show the options. And I have the latest BIOS update for this computer (circa 2002). Bill in Co: If you boot DOS from a device your MB allows you to boot from you CAN get access to USB *storage* devices from DOS, you just have to load the right drivers. In CONFIG.SYS device=USBASPI.SYS /w /v device=DI1000DD.SYS USBASPI.SYS is available in the self extracting archive "kxlrw40an.exe" at: http://panasonic.jp/com/support/driv.../kxlrw40an.exe The /w switch pauses and displays a bessage to connect a USB device. The /v switch displays verbose messages. DI1000DD.SYS is available in the archive "mhairu.zip" at: http://www.stefan2000.com/darkehorse...USB/mhairu.zip I found these several years ago and have used it with DOS boot floppies and CDs. Very handy to have access to stuff from DOS. The USB storage device is best formatted as a FAT32 drive. If it is NTFS you will have to install NTFS4DOS. http://avira-ntfs4dos-personal.avira-gmbh.qarchive.org/ HTH & GL John -- \\\||/// ------------------o000----(o)(o)----000o---------------- ----------------------------()-------------------------- '' Madness takes its toll - Please have exact change. '' John Dulak - 40.4888ºN,79.899ºW - http://tinyurl.com/3lvoh2n |
#4
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Booting up on a USB flash drive?
On 7/17/2012 3:56 PM, Bill in Co wrote:
Hi John, I'm a bit confused about something you wrote and how this all works: You said, "If you boot DOS from a device your MB allows you to boot from....." Unless I'm mistaken, that's THE problem I have, since my BIOS can't even detect the device (due to the age of the BIOS, circa 2002). So I was thinking these drivers you mentioned wouldn't help(?) with that particular issue.(I'm not just trying to get access to USB from DOS, but rather, being able to directly BOOT up onto a DOS formatted pen drive). More below. I've already made a DOS bootable flash drive using my WinXP computer, but again, if its plugged in (plugged into the USB2 card), the flash drive isn't even recognized at boot time, and it proceeds to go on to Windows, since again the only drives recognized by this old BIOS are floppy, ARMD, IDE, and CDROM. (I also tried moving ARMD to the top of the boot order list, and it still wouldn't recognize the drive). Am I mistaken in assuming that the only way those drivers (and config.sys) you mentioned can work (at bootup) is only if the BIOS can recognize the drive in the first place (long before config.sys or anything else can happen)? Or am I mistaken? Yes you are mistaken. The BIOS has nothing to do with the drivers working. If the drivers are installed during the DOS boot process (from whatever media) The USB drive will be assigned a drive letter and you will have access to the USB devices from the DOS command line. (The process is very simular to the old MSCDEX loading to access a CD-ROM drive from DOS) I realize it was not your original intention to boot from, say, a floppy and then be able to access the USB drive but you DID ask for a "workaround". If you insist on booting from the USB device directly the only suggestion I can make is to search for a BIOS upgrade/patch for your motherboard. Perhaps at: http://www.wimsbios.com/biosupdates.jsp John If I'm mistaken, I think you're saying that those drivers would somehow be able to bypass windows at boot time and transfer control over to the flash pen drive, regardless of the BIOS's limitation in even recognizing the device (as shown in the BIOS boot list selections). That is exactly what will happen. Once they have been assigned a drive letter you can CD to the USB drive and run anything that is on it. Thanks and sorry for my confusion here! Bill -- \\\||/// ------------------o000----(o)(o)----000o---------------- ----------------------------()-------------------------- '' Madness takes its toll - Please have exact change. '' John Dulak - 40.4888ºN,79.899ºW - http://tinyurl.com/3lvoh2n |
#5
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Booting up on a USB flash drive?
John Dulak wrote:
On 7/17/2012 3:56 PM, Bill in Co wrote: Hi John, I'm a bit confused about something you wrote and how this all works: You said, "If you boot DOS from a device your MB allows you to boot from....." Unless I'm mistaken, that's THE problem I have, since my BIOS can't even detect the device (due to the age of the BIOS, circa 2002). So I was thinking these drivers you mentioned wouldn't help(?) with that particular issue.(I'm not just trying to get access to USB from DOS, but rather, being able to directly BOOT up onto a DOS formatted pen drive). More below. I've already made a DOS bootable flash drive using my WinXP computer, but again, if its plugged in (plugged into the USB2 card), the flash drive isn't even recognized at boot time, and it proceeds to go on to Windows, since again the only drives recognized by this old BIOS are floppy, ARMD, IDE, and CDROM. (I also tried moving ARMD to the top of the boot order list, and it still wouldn't recognize the drive). Am I mistaken in assuming that the only way those drivers (and config.sys) you mentioned can work (at bootup) is only if the BIOS can recognize the drive in the first place (long before config.sys or anything else can happen)? Or am I mistaken? By "at bootup", I meant directly booting up on the flash drive. Sorry about my vagueness. Yes you are mistaken. The BIOS has nothing to do with the drivers working. If the drivers are installed during the DOS boot process (from whatever media) The USB drive will be assigned a drive letter and you will have access to the USB devices from the DOS command line. (The process is very simular to the old MSCDEX loading to access a CD-ROM drive from DOS) I realize it was not your original intention to boot from, say, a floppy and then be able to access the USB drive but you DID ask for a "workaround". And that could be a worthwhile feature. I was mostly concerned with simply booting up on the flash drive directly. If you insist on booting from the USB device directly the only suggestion I can make is to search for a BIOS upgrade/patch for your motherboard. Perhaps at: http://www.wimsbios.com/biosupdates.jsp John Thanks for the info, and I'll investigate it a bit further. If I'm mistaken, I think you're saying that those drivers would somehow be able to bypass windows at boot time and transfer control over to the flash pen drive, regardless of the BIOS's limitation in even recognizing the device (as shown in the BIOS boot list selections). That is exactly what will happen. Once they have been assigned a drive letter you can CD to the USB drive and run anything that is on it. Thanks and sorry for my confusion here! Bill -- \\\||/// ------------------o000----(o)(o)----000o---------------- ----------------------------()-------------------------- '' Madness takes its toll - Please have exact change. '' John Dulak - 40.4888ºN,79.899ºW - http://tinyurl.com/3lvoh2n |
#6
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Booting up on a USB flash drive?
"Bill in Co" wrote:
.... THE problem I have, since my BIOS can't even detect the device (due to the age of the BIOS, circa 2002). (I'm not just trying to get access to USB from DOS, but rather, being able to directly BOOT up onto a DOS formatted pen drive). Your problem has a solution and it's name's Plop ! Also, it's /free/ (as in free beer) - even for professional/commercial use now. www.plop.at Never listen to the naysayers ;=) HTH -- Cz. |
#7
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Booting up on a USB flash drive?
Czerno wrote:
"Bill in Co" wrote: .... THE problem I have, since my BIOS can't even detect the device (due to the age of the BIOS, circa 2002). (I'm not just trying to get access to USB from DOS, but rather, being able to directly BOOT up onto a DOS formatted pen drive). Your problem has a solution and it's name's Plop ! Also, it's /free/ (as in free beer) - even for professional/commercial use now. www.plop.at Fascinating. At first I didn't know if this was real (from the name "plop"), but it sure is. Thanks. |
#8
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Booting up on a USB flash drive?
In message , Czerno
writes: "Bill in Co" wrote: .... THE problem I have, since my BIOS can't even detect the device (due to the age of the BIOS, circa 2002). (I'm not just trying to get access to USB from DOS, but rather, being able to directly BOOT up onto a DOS formatted pen drive). Your problem has a solution and it's name's Plop ! Also, it's /free/ (as in free beer) - even for professional/commercial use now. www.plop.at Never listen to the naysayers ;=) [] How does yet another Linux variant make a USB stick/drive bootable on a BIOS that can't boot to USB? If it has to load the Linux, which it will do from the hard disc, that is NOT booting from the USB. It's this sort of thing that gives Linux enthusiasts a bad name (in this case, deservedly). -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf Call it incest - but I want my mummy |
#9
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Booting up on a USB flash drive?
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Czerno writes: "Bill in Co" wrote: .... THE problem I have, since my BIOS can't even detect the device (due to the age of the BIOS, circa 2002). (I'm not just trying to get access to USB from DOS, but rather, being able to directly BOOT up onto a DOS formatted pen drive). Your problem has a solution and it's name's Plop ! Also, it's /free/ (as in free beer) - even for professional/commercial use now. www.plop.at Never listen to the naysayers ;=) [] How does yet another Linux variant make a USB stick/drive bootable on a BIOS that can't boot to USB? If it has to load the Linux, which it will do from the hard disc, that is NOT booting from the USB. It's this sort of thing that gives Linux enthusiasts a bad name (in this case, deservedly). -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf Call it incest - but I want my mummy It seems the trick with all of these workarounds is as you and I have surmised: Regardless of any of these techniques, if your BIOS is "dated", you can never *directly* boot to a USB device (or any other non recognized BIOS device). You FIRST have to boot to one of your BIOS recognized bootable media, (which in my case is either a floppy, CD-ROM, or Zip drive, or HD), which can THEN, and only then, load the boot loader on that existing BIOS recognized media. No rocket science here, I guess. (I did try looking for a more up-to-date BIOS-, but to no avail. I'm already there. It's just too old (2002). I'm not even sure if USB was even around back then in any form. :-) |
#10
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Booting up on a USB flash drive?
Bill in Co wrote:
(I did try looking for a more up-to-date BIOS-, but to no avail. I'm already there. It's just too old (2002). I'm not even sure if USB was even around back then in any form. :-) USB was around for a considerable period, before the code module for booting from USB was available. Like everything else, the BIOS "base" code is developed by its respective company (Phoenix, Award, AMI), and when there is a major release that changes stream number, new features can be added. In some cases, you can get a PDF release note, which details the new features. A motherboard company, generally doesn't change streams or base code, once a motherboard is released. If the base was 5.0 when a BIOS was released, and the company providing the base BIOS goes to 6.0 as their current product, the motherboard maker continues to use 5.0 to generate new BIOS. Only a brand new motherboard would be using the 6.0 stream. And the motherboard company also freezes the feature set. The feature set, is depicted in the user manual. They can't go adding features which are not documented in the manual. And you can rightfully ask their support to fix things depicted in the manual, which don't work right. The user manual is your "contract". You can't expect the features to change with time. So if you considered USB boot to be a cool feature, but it wasn't promised in the manual, there's no reason for it to be added later. As far as I know, USB boot only became practical, with the introduction of USB2.0. Booting at 1MB/sec on a USB 1.1 interface, would take too long. Paul |
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