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Win-ME Dual Boot DOS



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 3rd 05, 02:58 AM
ASTROJAZ
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Win-ME Dual Boot DOS

I have been at this problem for a solid two weeks, tried everything, and
got nowhere. It seems that you can set up a Dual or even Multi boot with
every Windows O/S product "except" Millennium Edition. You don't even have
the option to "Shutdown to Command Prompt" in any menu. I need to use the
drive for a straight DOS system - critical real time motor control - but
would like to use the system for normal Windows tasks at other times.

The literature offers Win-ME dual boot with "higher level products" like
NT and Win2000, but fails all attempts to keep DOS alive on the boot
partition. After ME is installed, the hard drive goes directly to Win-ME, or
if interrupted by (CTRL or F8), you get 3 options, all ending up in Win-ME
running - no more "Command Prompt Option" - as there used to be in Win-95 &
98, and as there is once again now, in Win-XP, (which is overkill for this
application, so I am staying with ME, if possible).

In fact, after installing ME following the DOS 6.22 install (as
required), the MSDOS.SYS has entries for MultiBoot=1, and has renamed IO.sys
and MSDOS.sys to .DOS files - just as it did in the old Win-98. It looks like
it is quite "prepared" to run the DOS and Win-ME options, but never does. I
tried to change the BootGui=1 to BootGui=0, so ME would not even launch, but
even that was ignored, and ME starts up anyway.

After about a dozen re-installs of DOS then ME, trying various tricks, I
even tried modifying the Config and Autoexec to create DOS and WINDOWS
"MenuItems" - but these DOS based prompt screens never showed up, almost as
though Win-ME "completely ignores" Config.Sys and Autoexec.Bat, as soon as it
has read what it needs for itself to run, from the new MSDOS.SYS file for
Windows ME version.

I also tried Partition Magic 8 (Boot Magic), which identifies the DOS and
Windows partitions, as one item "pair" - I suppose it expects them figure
things on their own, and to "Dual Boot" using Microsoft code, after PM8
simply launches code in the main partition. This again, ends up running
Win-ME, just as without PM8.

Please help: Has anyone out there managed to create a Dual Boot with
Win-ME and DOS? What is the secret? I have already searched the web, and
Microsoft Knowledge Base, without results.

Am I correct in thinking that Microsoft screwed this up in ME and failed
to fix it since XP was in the works? Seems to be very little reference at
all, to Win-ME anywhere on this website, compared to all the other O/S's.
Maybe they wanted us to get a life, and ditch DOS - but they had to relent in
releasing Win-XP.

Any help would be most appreciated.
--
Thanks
  #2  
Old October 3rd 05, 03:12 AM
Mike M
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Microsoft didn't "screw up" to use your words but instead removed real
mode from Win Me. Long overdue and something that should have been done
when Win 98 was launched.

If you want to multiboot Win 9x systems (not just Win Me) you will need to
use a third party boot manager although there are methods by which Win Me
can be hacked so as to give the option to boot to DOS at bootup. Let
Google be your friend. There are at least three variations on this theme
in circulation.
--
Mike Maltby



ASTROJAZ wrote:

I have been at this problem for a solid two weeks, tried
everything, and got nowhere. It seems that you can set up a Dual or
even Multi boot with every Windows O/S product "except" Millennium
Edition. You don't even have the option to "Shutdown to Command
Prompt" in any menu. I need to use the drive for a straight DOS
system - critical real time motor control - but would like to use the
system for normal Windows tasks at other times.

The literature offers Win-ME dual boot with "higher level products"
like NT and Win2000, but fails all attempts to keep DOS alive on the
boot partition. After ME is installed, the hard drive goes directly
to Win-ME, or if interrupted by (CTRL or F8), you get 3 options, all
ending up in Win-ME running - no more "Command Prompt Option" - as
there used to be in Win-95 & 98, and as there is once again now, in
Win-XP, (which is overkill for this application, so I am staying with
ME, if possible).

In fact, after installing ME following the DOS 6.22 install (as
required), the MSDOS.SYS has entries for MultiBoot=1, and has renamed
IO.sys and MSDOS.sys to .DOS files - just as it did in the old
Win-98. It looks like it is quite "prepared" to run the DOS and
Win-ME options, but never does. I tried to change the BootGui=1 to
BootGui=0, so ME would not even launch, but even that was ignored,
and ME starts up anyway.

After about a dozen re-installs of DOS then ME, trying various
tricks, I even tried modifying the Config and Autoexec to create DOS
and WINDOWS "MenuItems" - but these DOS based prompt screens never
showed up, almost as though Win-ME "completely ignores" Config.Sys
and Autoexec.Bat, as soon as it has read what it needs for itself to
run, from the new MSDOS.SYS file for Windows ME version.

I also tried Partition Magic 8 (Boot Magic), which identifies the
DOS and Windows partitions, as one item "pair" - I suppose it expects
them figure things on their own, and to "Dual Boot" using Microsoft
code, after PM8 simply launches code in the main partition. This
again, ends up running Win-ME, just as without PM8.

Please help: Has anyone out there managed to create a Dual Boot with
Win-ME and DOS? What is the secret? I have already searched the web,
and Microsoft Knowledge Base, without results.

Am I correct in thinking that Microsoft screwed this up in ME and
failed to fix it since XP was in the works? Seems to be very little
reference at all, to Win-ME anywhere on this website, compared to all
the other O/S's. Maybe they wanted us to get a life, and ditch DOS -
but they had to relent in releasing Win-XP.

Any help would be most appreciated.


  #3  
Old October 3rd 05, 02:55 PM
ASTROJAZ
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Thanks for confirming my suspicions about ME. However, if you grant that
Microsoft did NOT screw up, and simply, finally, removed Real Mode from Win
ME, then how do you explain that they put it right back in, with Win-XP?
This newer O/S that followed ME, does have a start up option to go to Command
Prompt, which ME no longer did. Perhaps it isn't DOS-6, but DOS-8, and maybe
it is even no longer Real Mode - don't know. But I wouldn't even mind booting
into ME's own version of DOS-7 at start up. Unfortunately, there is no way to
turn off ME and occasionally get into a full DOS mode.

I assume one of the three "variations" you mention, is using Partition
Magic's Boot Manager - which as I said, does not solve the problem, since it
simply starts up ME and leaves it upto that O/S to multiboot, which it can't.
Further, it may be that other so-called boot managers you mention, do the
same thing as PM - don't know. I did the Google thing several times, and it
wasn't "my firiend" as you suggest, since I spent hours on searching for the
"hack" you mention, with no more luck than the Knowledge Base here. Perhaps
you can point me to a specific site, or at least what search string you used
to find the hacks you mentioned, to get ME to boot DOS.

Thanks again.
--
Thanks


"Mike M" wrote:

Microsoft didn't "screw up" to use your words but instead removed real
mode from Win Me. Long overdue and something that should have been done
when Win 98 was launched.

If you want to multiboot Win 9x systems (not just Win Me) you will need to
use a third party boot manager although there are methods by which Win Me
can be hacked so as to give the option to boot to DOS at bootup. Let
Google be your friend. There are at least three variations on this theme
in circulation.
--
Mike Maltby


  #4  
Old October 3rd 05, 03:25 PM
Mike M
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

XP does NOT have real mode. Period. Command Prompt is not Real Mode.
Period.

Unfortunately, there is no way to
turn off ME and occasionally get into a full DOS mode.


At the risk of repeating myself there are at least three hacks that allow
you to *******ise the operating system in the way you want. Use Google.

I assume one of the three "variations" you mention, is using
Partition Magic's Boot Manager -


No. You appear to have problems using Google. If that's too difficult
then use Google Groups, Advanced Search and look in the Win Me newsgroups.
--
Mike Maltby



ASTROJAZ wrote:

Thanks for confirming my suspicions about ME. However, if you grant
that Microsoft did NOT screw up, and simply, finally, removed Real
Mode from Win ME, then how do you explain that they put it right
back in, with Win-XP? This newer O/S that followed ME, does have a
start up option to go to Command Prompt, which ME no longer did.
Perhaps it isn't DOS-6, but DOS-8, and maybe it is even no longer
Real Mode - don't know. But I wouldn't even mind booting into ME's

I assume one of the three "variations" you mention, is using
Partition Magic's Boot Manager - which as I said, does not solve the
problem, since it simply starts up ME and leaves it upto that O/S to
multiboot, which it can't. Further, it may be that other so-called
boot managers you mention, do the same thing as PM - don't know. I
did the Google thing several times, and it wasn't "my firiend" as you
suggest, since I spent hours on searching for the "hack" you mention,
with no more luck than the Knowledge Base here. Perhaps you can point
me to a specific site, or at least what search string you used to
find the hacks you mentioned, to get ME to boot DOS.


  #5  
Old October 3rd 05, 03:35 PM
Mike M
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

If you have Partition Magic then you should also have Boot Magic in which
case use Boot Magic as your boot manager and install Win Me to one
partition and your preferred flavour of DOS to another and use BM to
select which to boot. Alternatively install Win Me in one partition and
Win 98 or 98SE in another and boot 98/98SE if you want real mode.
--
Mike Maltby



ASTROJAZ wrote:

Thanks for confirming my suspicions about ME. However, if you grant
that Microsoft did NOT screw up, and simply, finally, removed Real
Mode from Win ME, then how do you explain that they put it right
back in, with Win-XP? This newer O/S that followed ME, does have a
start up option to go to Command Prompt, which ME no longer did.
Perhaps it isn't DOS-6, but DOS-8, and maybe it is even no longer
Real Mode - don't know. But I wouldn't even mind booting into ME's
own version of DOS-7 at start up. Unfortunately, there is no way to
turn off ME and occasionally get into a full DOS mode.

I assume one of the three "variations" you mention, is using
Partition Magic's Boot Manager - which as I said, does not solve the
problem, since it simply starts up ME and leaves it upto that O/S to
multiboot, which it can't. Further, it may be that other so-called
boot managers you mention, do the same thing as PM - don't know. I
did the Google thing several times, and it wasn't "my firiend" as you
suggest, since I spent hours on searching for the "hack" you mention,
with no more luck than the Knowledge Base here. Perhaps you can point
me to a specific site, or at least what search string you used to
find the hacks you mentioned, to get ME to boot DOS.


  #6  
Old October 7th 05, 05:07 AM
ASTROJAZ
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Tried that - many times, and many ways. Installed DOS-6 on C: drive,
followed by install of ME on D: drive (i.e. an Extended Partition), and also
had an extra copy of DOS-6 on another E: drive extended partition. This was
all on the same physical hard drive, of course. Boot Magic doesn't work with
ME, because it declares C: as a "DOS or Win98" boot - it can't distinguish
between them - and ignores the E: drive altogether. When I select the
former, Boot Magic doesn't know about the DOS/ME being different in this
respect from old Win98, and merrily launches DOS - which immediately goes to
Win-ME because Dual Boot with DOS isn't normally allowed.
Boot Magic really isn't that sophisticated - it just launches whatever was
installed on C: drive - and that is the problem. You still need to solve the
Microsoft Dual Boot issue on your own.

Luckily with your prompting, I googled through over 300 websites on the
DOS-WIN-ME dual boot problem, and found one very simple, and quite commonly
known, PATCH utility that effectively converts WIN-ME into what "would have
been" Win-98 service pack #3. It works great. The patch brings back the F4
key to boot to "previous operating system" (DOS), and goes back to the
swapping of .W40 and .DOS files depending on which one you were in - just
like WIN-98SE. Initally you do lose the SAFE MODE option, but that can be
gotten by choosing Shift F5 for Step by step, and decline to install Windows
Drvers - which opens Win Safe Mode. Or, much simpler, you can add a line to
the Autoexec.bat "WIN d:/m" which also launches Safe Mode.

In my very brief testing, I found I could F4 to start up in DOS-6.22,
type in the command "WIN" - which launched Win 3.11 that I happened to have
also installed on C:drive during my testing. Or I could choose to "Start with
Command Prompt" - which got me into DOS-8 (Win-ME version). Or finally, I
could simply launch into Win-ME. There you have it - a choice of 4 O/S's with
this patch. But at least it mainly givs me a chance to very occasionally use
DOS-6 for a specific application program, and yet not waste the laptop, but
use Win-ME, most of the time, for reall daily work. Just what I needed.

Several of those sites confirmed that DOS was indeed "removed" in Win-ME
because that was intended as the first real "Office Product", and it would be
far too dangerous, after 20 years of open use, to let the common folk have
access to the powerful commands in DOS. In fact, Microsoft told a "little
white lie" - as they often do - they did NOT really remove DOS, but merely
"hid it away" - which the patch uncovers, and makes WIN-ME dual boot with DOS
- without the need for Boot Magic.

Here are the links for the PATCH - they contain nearly identical information.
There is also a lot of vehement discussion on the web, about these patches,
by O/S and GUI purists. No matter - it works, and addresses a need for some
of us.
But DEFINITELY - this is the last kick at the DOS can, since all O/S's after
Win-ME do not provide any DOS access, short of putting a copyof DOS on a
seperate physical drive, and using Boot Magic.

(1)
"Real DOS-Mode Patch for Windows Millennium
By Reines [MFD]"
http://www.geocities.com/mfd4life_2000/

(2)
"Has Real-mode DOS been removed
from Microsoft's Windows ® Millennium Edition?"
http://www.dewassoc.com/support/winme/real_dos.htm


Thanks


"Mike M" wrote:

If you have Partition Magic then you should also have Boot Magic in which
case use Boot Magic as your boot manager and install Win Me to one
partition and your preferred flavour of DOS to another and use BM to
select which to boot. Alternatively install Win Me in one partition and
Win 98 or 98SE in another and boot 98/98SE if you want real mode.
--
Mike Maltby



ASTROJAZ wrote:

Thanks for confirming my suspicions about ME. However, if you grant
that Microsoft did NOT screw up, and simply, finally, removed Real
Mode from Win ME, then how do you explain that they put it right
back in, with Win-XP? This newer O/S that followed ME, does have a
start up option to go to Command Prompt, which ME no longer did.
Perhaps it isn't DOS-6, but DOS-8, and maybe it is even no longer
Real Mode - don't know. But I wouldn't even mind booting into ME's
own version of DOS-7 at start up. Unfortunately, there is no way to
turn off ME and occasionally get into a full DOS mode.

I assume one of the three "variations" you mention, is using
Partition Magic's Boot Manager - which as I said, does not solve the
problem, since it simply starts up ME and leaves it upto that O/S to
multiboot, which it can't. Further, it may be that other so-called
boot managers you mention, do the same thing as PM - don't know. I
did the Google thing several times, and it wasn't "my firiend" as you
suggest, since I spent hours on searching for the "hack" you mention,
with no more luck than the Knowledge Base here. Perhaps you can point
me to a specific site, or at least what search string you used to
find the hacks you mentioned, to get ME to boot DOS.



  #7  
Old October 7th 05, 10:30 AM
Mike M
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Boot Magic works perfectly well with Win Me as do any other boot manager.
To say otherwise is total rubbish.

It seems your problems are having are self-generated.
--
Mike Maltby



ASTROJAZ wrote:

Tried that - many times, and many ways. Installed DOS-6 on C: drive,
followed by install of ME on D: drive (i.e. an Extended Partition),
and also had an extra copy of DOS-6 on another E: drive extended
partition. This was all on the same physical hard drive, of course.
Boot Magic doesn't work with ME, because it declares C: as a "DOS or
Win98" boot - it can't distinguish between them - and ignores the E:
drive altogether. When I select the former, Boot Magic doesn't know
about the DOS/ME being different in this respect from old Win98, and
merrily launches DOS - which immediately goes to Win-ME because Dual
Boot with DOS isn't normally allowed.
Boot Magic really isn't that sophisticated - it just launches
whatever was installed on C: drive - and that is the problem. You
still need to solve the Microsoft Dual Boot issue on your own.

Luckily with your prompting, I googled through over 300 websites on
the DOS-WIN-ME dual boot problem, and found one very simple, and
quite commonly known, PATCH utility that effectively converts WIN-ME
into what "would have been" Win-98 service pack #3. It works great.
The patch brings back the F4 key to boot to "previous operating
system" (DOS), and goes back to the swapping of .W40 and .DOS files
depending on which one you were in - just like WIN-98SE. Initally you
do lose the SAFE MODE option, but that can be gotten by choosing
Shift F5 for Step by step, and decline to install Windows Drvers -
which opens Win Safe Mode. Or, much simpler, you can add a line to
the Autoexec.bat "WIN d:/m" which also launches Safe Mode.

In my very brief testing, I found I could F4 to start up in
DOS-6.22,
type in the command "WIN" - which launched Win 3.11 that I happened
to have also installed on C:drive during my testing. Or I could
choose to "Start with Command Prompt" - which got me into DOS-8
(Win-ME version). Or finally, I could simply launch into Win-ME.
There you have it - a choice of 4 O/S's with this patch. But at least
it mainly givs me a chance to very occasionally use DOS-6 for a
specific application program, and yet not waste the laptop, but use
Win-ME, most of the time, for reall daily work. Just what I needed.

Several of those sites confirmed that DOS was indeed "removed" in
Win-ME because that was intended as the first real "Office Product",
and it would be far too dangerous, after 20 years of open use, to
let the common folk have access to the powerful commands in DOS. In
fact, Microsoft told a "little white lie" - as they often do - they
did NOT really remove DOS, but merely "hid it away" - which the patch
uncovers, and makes WIN-ME dual boot with DOS - without the need for
Boot Magic.

Here are the links for the PATCH - they contain nearly identical
information. There is also a lot of vehement discussion on the web,
about these patches, by O/S and GUI purists. No matter - it works,
and addresses a need for some of us.
But DEFINITELY - this is the last kick at the DOS can, since all
O/S's after Win-ME do not provide any DOS access, short of putting a
copyof DOS on a seperate physical drive, and using Boot Magic.

(1)
"Real DOS-Mode Patch for Windows Millennium
By Reines [MFD]"
http://www.geocities.com/mfd4life_2000/

(2)
"Has Real-mode DOS been removed
from Microsoft's Windows ® Millennium Edition?"
http://www.dewassoc.com/support/winme/real_dos.htm


 




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