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#11
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Scandisk surface scan - how to clear the flag
On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 22:57:08 -0500, Bill Watt wrote:
On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 11:04:59 +0800, budgie wrote: The problem is that there is NO PROBLEM FOUND when Windows Scandisk does it's quickscan and surface scan. No smoking gun. YOU NEED TO STOP THE IMPROPER SHUTDOWNS!!! I agree, but until I replace the drive I have needed a way to prevent redundant/pointless surface scans at inopportune times. Running Scandisk /fix may remove the flag. I tried a "scandisk /?" in Start-Run and it said: For information about the command-line parameters supported by ScanDisk for Windows, look up 'checking for errors, in disks' in the Windows Help index. Then view the topic 'Checking your disk for errors every time Windows starts'. Under Windows Help the nearest to that wording was: To check for disk errors when your computer starts and it only shows /a, /n and /p as command line switches. |
#12
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Scandisk surface scan - how to clear the flag
"budgie" wrote in message ... On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 14:43:17 -0000, "Noel Paton" wrote: I say again - what makes you think the problem is with the HD - It's very unlikely that it is!(especially since it passes a 3hr+ thorough scan!!) You can test the HD, using the PowerMax utility at www.maxtor.com - but if you won't believe advice, you probably won't believe the results of the test, either so go out and waste your money on an unnecessary HD, and then find out it's a £5 fan that started sticking which actually caused the problem. It IS the HDD. I can hear it drop - sounds like an olde drive head-parking "clunk" and then I hear it spin up again. On one occasion I was fast enough to hear the "drop" and get several finger ontgo the underside of the drive, and felt the effect of reapplication of power to the motor. The case is open, and I can see the processor fan. Processor temp is reported at typically 38C - currently days here are in the 20's. S.M.A.R.T. is enabled and I have run extensive testing with PowerMax. Neither reports any problem. In that case, you need to check the power supply - it may be that that's overheating! If PowerMax says there's nothing wrong with the drive, there's very little chance that there is anything wrong with the drive. -- Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2006, Windows) Nil Carborundum Illegitemi http://www.crashfixpc.com/millsrpch.htm http://tinyurl.com/6oztj Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to NG's |
#13
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Scandisk surface scan - how to clear the flag
On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 10:01:54 -0000, "Noel Paton"
wrote: "budgie" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 14:43:17 -0000, "Noel Paton" wrote: I say again - what makes you think the problem is with the HD - It's very unlikely that it is!(especially since it passes a 3hr+ thorough scan!!) You can test the HD, using the PowerMax utility at www.maxtor.com - but if you won't believe advice, you probably won't believe the results of the test, either so go out and waste your money on an unnecessary HD, and then find out it's a £5 fan that started sticking which actually caused the problem. It IS the HDD. I can hear it drop - sounds like an olde drive head-parking "clunk" and then I hear it spin up again. On one occasion I was fast enough to hear the "drop" and get several finger ontgo the underside of the drive, and felt the effect of reapplication of power to the motor. The case is open, and I can see the processor fan. Processor temp is reported at typically 38C - currently days here are in the 20's. S.M.A.R.T. is enabled and I have run extensive testing with PowerMax. Neither reports any problem. In that case, you need to check the power supply - it may be that that's overheating! Nope, it's absolutely loafing too. If PowerMax says there's nothing wrong with the drive, there's very little chance that there is anything wrong with the drive. The "clunk" from the drive, the subsequent spin-up, and Windows reaction all tell me otherwise. When it's going, it's going fine. Hence the clean diagnostics. Then it has the hiccups which it smartly recovers from. I'm assuming that the SMART doesn't report a problem because the drive is "out of it" for that moment. But thanks for your input. |
#14
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Scandisk surface scan - how to clear the flag
"budgie" wrote in message ... On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 10:01:54 -0000, "Noel Paton" wrote: "budgie" wrote in message . .. On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 14:43:17 -0000, "Noel Paton" wrote: I say again - what makes you think the problem is with the HD - It's very unlikely that it is!(especially since it passes a 3hr+ thorough scan!!) You can test the HD, using the PowerMax utility at www.maxtor.com - but if you won't believe advice, you probably won't believe the results of the test, either so go out and waste your money on an unnecessary HD, and then find out it's a £5 fan that started sticking which actually caused the problem. It IS the HDD. I can hear it drop - sounds like an olde drive head-parking "clunk" and then I hear it spin up again. On one occasion I was fast enough to hear the "drop" and get several finger ontgo the underside of the drive, and felt the effect of reapplication of power to the motor. The case is open, and I can see the processor fan. Processor temp is reported at typically 38C - currently days here are in the 20's. S.M.A.R.T. is enabled and I have run extensive testing with PowerMax. Neither reports any problem. In that case, you need to check the power supply - it may be that that's overheating! Nope, it's absolutely loafing too. If PowerMax says there's nothing wrong with the drive, there's very little chance that there is anything wrong with the drive. The "clunk" from the drive, the subsequent spin-up, and Windows reaction all tell me otherwise. When it's going, it's going fine. Hence the clean diagnostics. Then it has the hiccups which it smartly recovers from. I'm assuming that the SMART doesn't report a problem because the drive is "out of it" for that moment. The point is that the 'clunk' could well be from power interruptions - and those COULD cause damage to your HD - forcing a sudden return to Park. as the capacitors drain It would be rare (but not unheard of) for that type of interruption to be recorded in SMART. BTW - did you check that your HD isn't being switched off by Power-saving settings?? Just because the fan is 'loafing' doesn't mean that the power supply is OK - it could either be mis-reporting the temp, or just plain faulty. - get it tested! An HD rarely gets a more thorough workout that it does during a full thorough-mode ScanDisk - and I would expect it to fail during one if it has a tendency to fail - while the rest of the PC is relatively underused, and the PSU can relax a bit. Since such a scan takes over 3 hours on your system (does it stall at any point?? - or does it proceed fairly constantly?), then I would be surprised if it turns out to be the HD. -- Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2006, Windows) Nil Carborundum Illegitemi http://www.crashfixpc.com/millsrpch.htm http://tinyurl.com/6oztj Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to NG's |
#15
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Scandisk surface scan - how to clear the flag
"budgie" wrote in message
... On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 22:57:08 -0500, Bill Watt wrote: On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 11:04:59 +0800, budgie wrote: The problem is that there is NO PROBLEM FOUND when Windows Scandisk does it's quickscan and surface scan. No smoking gun. YOU NEED TO STOP THE IMPROPER SHUTDOWNS!!! I agree, but until I replace the drive I have needed a way to prevent redundant/pointless surface scans at inopportune times. Running Scandisk /fix may remove the flag. I tried a "scandisk /?" in Start-Run and it said: For information about the command-line parameters supported by ScanDisk for Windows, look up 'checking for errors, in disks' in the Windows Help index. Then view the topic 'Checking your disk for errors every time Windows starts'. Under Windows Help the nearest to that wording was: To check for disk errors when your computer starts and it only shows /a, /n and /p as command line switches. That's because whenever you call scandisk from within Windows, even to check parameters, it passes off to scandskw, and then you get the message you saw, and the params for scandskw Boot to DOS and check the params for scandisk from there. As to your original problem, boot to DOS (not a DOS window in Windows): - Start the computer and hold down the CTRL key till the Windows 98 Startup menu (boot menu) appears. OR - Repeatedly tap the F8 key after the memory count to bring up the boot menu. - Use the arrow keys to select "Command Prompt Only" and press Enter. Then run scandisk from the command prompt, thusly: scandisk /all /surface When done it will return you to the command prompt...press Ctrl+Alt+Delete to restart. This will often fix the problem you are having. -- Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+ http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm |
#16
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Scandisk surface scan - how to clear the flag
On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 15:49:43 -0500, "glee" wrote:
"budgie" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 22:57:08 -0500, Bill Watt wrote: (snip) Running Scandisk /fix may remove the flag. I tried a "scandisk /?" in Start-Run and it said: For information about the command-line parameters supported by ScanDisk for Windows, look up 'checking for errors, in disks' in the Windows Help index. Then view the topic 'Checking your disk for errors every time Windows starts'. Under Windows Help the nearest to that wording was: To check for disk errors when your computer starts and it only shows /a, /n and /p as command line switches. That's because whenever you call scandisk from within Windows, even to check parameters, it passes off to scandskw, and then you get the message you saw, and the params for scandskw Boot to DOS and check the params for scandisk from there. Just saw Bill's update - he was referring to Scanreg ;-) As to your original problem, boot to DOS (not a DOS window in Windows): (snip instructions) know that off by heart - do it VERY often. Then run scandisk from the command prompt, thusly: scandisk /all /surface When done it will return you to the command prompt...press Ctrl+Alt+Delete to restart. This will often fix the problem you are having. Why should a surface scan under DOS give a different outcome than under Windows? |
#17
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Scandisk surface scan - how to clear the flag
On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 11:09:47 -0000, "Noel Paton"
wrote: "budgie" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 10:01:54 -0000, "Noel Paton" wrote: "budgie" wrote in message ... On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 14:43:17 -0000, "Noel Paton" wrote: I say again - what makes you think the problem is with the HD - It's very unlikely that it is!(especially since it passes a 3hr+ thorough scan!!) You can test the HD, using the PowerMax utility at www.maxtor.com - but if you won't believe advice, you probably won't believe the results of the test, either so go out and waste your money on an unnecessary HD, and then find out it's a £5 fan that started sticking which actually caused the problem. It IS the HDD. I can hear it drop - sounds like an olde drive head-parking "clunk" and then I hear it spin up again. On one occasion I was fast enough to hear the "drop" and get several finger ontgo the underside of the drive, and felt the effect of reapplication of power to the motor. The case is open, and I can see the processor fan. Processor temp is reported at typically 38C - currently days here are in the 20's. S.M.A.R.T. is enabled and I have run extensive testing with PowerMax. Neither reports any problem. In that case, you need to check the power supply - it may be that that's overheating! Nope, it's absolutely loafing too. If PowerMax says there's nothing wrong with the drive, there's very little chance that there is anything wrong with the drive. The "clunk" from the drive, the subsequent spin-up, and Windows reaction all tell me otherwise. When it's going, it's going fine. Hence the clean diagnostics. Then it has the hiccups which it smartly recovers from. I'm assuming that the SMART doesn't report a problem because the drive is "out of it" for that moment. The point is that the 'clunk' could well be from power interruptions - and those COULD cause damage to your HD - forcing a sudden return to Park. as the capacitors drain It would be rare (but not unheard of) for that type of interruption to be recorded in SMART. BTW - did you check that your HD isn't being switched off by Power-saving settings?? yep. Just because the fan is 'loafing' doesn't mean that the power supply is OK - it could either be mis-reporting the temp, or just plain faulty. - get it tested! it was actually substituted about two months ago. This problem pre-dates that. An HD rarely gets a more thorough workout that it does during a full thorough-mode ScanDisk - and I would expect it to fail during one if it has a tendency to fail - while the rest of the PC is relatively underused, and the PSU can relax a bit. Since such a scan takes over 3 hours on your system (does it stall at any point?? - or does it proceed fairly constantly?), then I would be surprised if it turns out to be the HD. The surface can proceeds with monotonous pace throughout. No hiccups. |
#18
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Scandisk surface scan - how to clear the flag
"budgie" wrote in message
... On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 11:09:47 -0000, "Noel Paton" The point is that the 'clunk' could well be from power interruptions - and those COULD cause damage to your HD - forcing a sudden return to Park. as the capacitors drain It would be rare (but not unheard of) for that type of interruption to be recorded in SMART. BTW - did you check that your HD isn't being switched off by Power-saving settings?? yep. Just because the fan is 'loafing' doesn't mean that the power supply is OK - it could either be mis-reporting the temp, or just plain faulty. - get it tested! it was actually substituted about two months ago. This problem pre-dates that. An HD rarely gets a more thorough workout that it does during a full thorough-mode ScanDisk - and I would expect it to fail during one if it has a tendency to fail - while the rest of the PC is relatively underused, and the PSU can relax a bit. Since such a scan takes over 3 hours on your system (does it stall at any point?? - or does it proceed fairly constantly?), then I would be surprised if it turns out to be the HD. The surface can proceeds with monotonous pace throughout. No hiccups. Everything you are saying points to it being a problem with something OTHER than the HD - my prime suspect is still the PSU. -- Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2006, Windows) Nil Carborundum Illegitemi http://www.crashfixpc.com/millsrpch.htm http://tinyurl.com/6oztj Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to NG's |
#19
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Scandisk surface scan - how to clear the flag
On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 08:22:14 -0000, "Noel Paton"
wrote: "budgie" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 11:09:47 -0000, "Noel Paton" The point is that the 'clunk' could well be from power interruptions - and those COULD cause damage to your HD - forcing a sudden return to Park. as the capacitors drain It would be rare (but not unheard of) for that type of interruption to be recorded in SMART. BTW - did you check that your HD isn't being switched off by Power-saving settings?? yep. Just because the fan is 'loafing' doesn't mean that the power supply is OK - it could either be mis-reporting the temp, or just plain faulty. - get it tested! it was actually substituted about two months ago. This problem pre-dates that. An HD rarely gets a more thorough workout that it does during a full thorough-mode ScanDisk - and I would expect it to fail during one if it has a tendency to fail - while the rest of the PC is relatively underused, and the PSU can relax a bit. Since such a scan takes over 3 hours on your system (does it stall at any point?? - or does it proceed fairly constantly?), then I would be surprised if it turns out to be the HD. The surface can proceeds with monotonous pace throughout. No hiccups. Everything you are saying points to it being a problem with something OTHER than the HD - my prime suspect is still the PSU. Thank heaven that it's a (largely) free world. |
#20
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Scandisk surface scan - how to clear the flag
Reply at end: On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 18:59:41 +0800, budgie wrote: On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 10:01:54 -0000, "Noel Paton" wrote: "budgie" wrote in message . .. On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 14:43:17 -0000, "Noel Paton" wrote: I say again - what makes you think the problem is with the HD - It's very unlikely that it is!(especially since it passes a 3hr+ thorough scan!!) You can test the HD, using the PowerMax utility at www.maxtor.com - but if you won't believe advice, you probably won't believe the results of the test, either so go out and waste your money on an unnecessary HD, and then find out it's a £5 fan that started sticking which actually caused the problem. It IS the HDD. I can hear it drop - sounds like an olde drive head-parking "clunk" and then I hear it spin up again. On one occasion I was fast enough to hear the "drop" and get several finger ontgo the underside of the drive, and felt the effect of reapplication of power to the motor. The case is open, and I can see the processor fan. Processor temp is reported at typically 38C - currently days here are in the 20's. S.M.A.R.T. is enabled and I have run extensive testing with PowerMax. Neither reports any problem. In that case, you need to check the power supply - it may be that that's overheating! Nope, it's absolutely loafing too. If PowerMax says there's nothing wrong with the drive, there's very little chance that there is anything wrong with the drive. The "clunk" from the drive, the subsequent spin-up, and Windows reaction all tell me otherwise. When it's going, it's going fine. Hence the clean diagnostics. Then it has the hiccups which it smartly recovers from. I'm assuming that the SMART doesn't report a problem because the drive is "out of it" for that moment. But thanks for your input. I'm aware that Scandisk and a Surface Scan show no errors when you run them. Here is some info I ran into: The file system also detects when Windows 98 shuts down improperly. If Windows 98 is shut down without going through the standard shutdown sequence, real mode Scandisk will be executed at the next startup. The purpose of running Scandisk is to correct potential errors in the file allocation table (FAT) before continuing the boot process. In the event that a Disk read/write error is encountered during normal Windows 98 operation, a flag will also be set to run real mode Scandisk with Surface Scan. The flag is set in the FAT. ( File Allocation Table ) ======= Completing a Surface Scan is supposed to remove the Flag but apparently that isn't happening for you. Look in the Scandisk.ini file in the Windows\Command folder. Look at this section: [CUSTOM] DriveSummary = Off ; Auto, On, Off AllSummary = Off ; Auto, On, Off Surface = Never ; Never, Always, Prompt ========== CheckHost = Always ; Never, Always, Prompt SaveLog = Append ; Off, Append, Overwrite Undo = Never ; Prompt, Never Check Surface= yours may be set to Always. Change it to Never or Prompt. A setting of Always would explain your problem. The semi-colons ( ; ) make the following text only a remark. Regards, Bill Watt Computer Help and Information http://home.ptd.net/~bwatt/ |
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