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#91
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I think you were referring to his post on comparing identical HP Pavillion
machines, which I read with interest. While the only "apparent" difference was the inclusion of an anti-virus program on the offending machine, I view that as a trigger for what he calls the "lame-patch", rather than the root cause. I had a web-game on one system which triggered the instant-reboot, but again, the game was not the issue, rather 891711 was the culprit. Frankly, I am shocked that Microsoft would release this patch to the ME community given it's nearly 2-month adverse history on Win2k machines (my date said 1/25/05, but another poster said it was released earlier in January). ME machines have nowhere near the inherent stability of a Win2k system as it is, and so to unleash a psuedo-virus into that community when they were aware of existing problems with 891711 approaches irresponsibility. I don't say this just to blast Microsoft, as I develop with their tools, use their products extensively, and have had excellent support from some of their personnel. But in this case, the ball was dropped badly. "Jack E Martinelli" wrote in message ... Thank you, Earl. Jim can get it to the right people. And see Norman Miller's very helpful recent posts about this issue. I believe we have several reports of trouble on Celeron machines now. Most problematic machines seem to be older, slower boxes, running Win9X or W2K. And we must keep in mind that there may be more than one cause. Probable date for a new patch is April 12, if past WU history is any guide. -- Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm http://www.microsoft.com/athome/secu...t/default.aspx In Memorium: Alex Nichol http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/e...ts/nichol.mspx Your cooperation is very appreciated. ------ "Earl" wrote in message ... Jack, I did copy the body of my most recent post on this subject to Jim. I've not yet seen this issue arise on any Intel machines, yet as I indicated in my post, I've not seen any evidence to indicate this was an absolute exclusion. But I've also not seen any posts that convince me that this patch is affecting Intel machines. Some issues that folks are attributing to 891711 are simply unrelated to this patch (I would certainly not apply this patch to a system that already had issues!). However, given the diversity of hardware that Intel has created over the years, it would not totally surprise me. Yet the instruction sets in the processors differ more between Intel and non-Intel than across various generations of Intel chips. It's been a number of years, but if I recall correctly, the interrupts are wired differently also on non-Intel CPUs. Whether or not that is the issue, I doubt we'll ever hear. I suspect Microsoft will simply release an updated patch at some point. "Jack E Martinelli" wrote in message ... Thank you very much, Earl. I urge you to copy this post to Jim Eshelman using the Feedback tool at his website: www.aumha.org He has much better connections with MS than I do. The 891711 problem is now clearly NOT confined to AMD cpu's. I am not aware of any reported extensive correlations with the video adapter or its driver yet, just some vague murmerings. We should explore this possibility. -- Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm http://www.microsoft.com/athome/secu...t/default.aspx In Memorium: Alex Nichol http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/e...ts/nichol.mspx Your cooperation is very appreciated. ------ "Earl" wrote in message ... Jack, The problem absolutely affects Win2k as well as WinME (see my threads from last month in the microsoft.public.win2000.windows_update forum). Apparently everyone was still oblivious to this issue in February, as not one person responded to any of my threads. In any event ... Once 891711 has been installed, the problem seems to arise due to a problem with the hardware and or drivers not being able to process graphics properly. It appears that 891711 is intercepting some of the graphic data and "re-handling" it. Intel systems appear to be nearly, if not completely unaffected by the problem, which tells me that the patch was most likely tested on Intel machines only. Non-Intel hardware appears to be solely or mostly affected by this problem. In particular, older AMD systems are universally afflicted. I can only speculate that this has something to do with the way interrupts are handled at the processor. In any event, further testing on this patch with non-Intel systems needs to be done. This is not a software issue, although many deceptive symptoms make it appear so. Exiting game software, running your cursor over hot-links, anti-virus activity, changing windows, stacking windows, etc. -- any number of graphic related events will cause the reboot or "BSOD". In many cases, an 891711-afflicted system will apparently reboot itself for no reason at all. Hopefully you can send that information "upstairs". "Jack E Martinelli" wrote in message ... Ditto, Bill. Thank you. ------- May I report that I've just heard from Jim Eshelman about the KB891711 problem. He is unable to offer anything new to our discussion. His recommendation is to disable or uninstall the update until MS offers a new fix. He seems to think the problem is restricted to Win9X machines, but I think some W2K boxes have been hit, too. I have no idea yet what the cause may be, despite several earlier promising suggestions. -- Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm http://www.microsoft.com/athome/secu...t/default.aspx In Memorium: Alex Nichol http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/e...ts/nichol.mspx Your cooperation is very appreciated. ------ SNIP |
#92
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I'm running w98 on a P3 3000, and I have the problem. So it's not just
with slower chips Bill Leary wrote: "Lester Stiefel" wrote in message ... You've struck paydirt. Older processors are not compatible with that fix. Only Athlon 700mhz up and newer Intel processors are compatible. Its not the OS, Its the chip. Where did you come by this information, please? It looks like I'll have to have my son disable KB891711, since he's got a 400MHz AMD in his system and *is* having problems. The two machines here have 1700 and 1900 AMDs and are having no problems. - Bill |
#93
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#94
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On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 00:16:10 -0000, "Mike M"
wrote: wrote: I'm running w98 on a P3 3000, and I have the problem. So it's not just with slower chips The problem with the 891711 hotfix isn't with the cpu chip but instead seems to be with the video card and driver version which is why some users are having problems and others not. -- Mike Maltby MS-MVP I'm running a NVIDIA GeForce 4 MX440 with their latest driver on an AMD K7 1.9 gig system, so I tend to agree with you, as that 'HotFix' really screwed up my computer. |
#95
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Are you willing to consider replacing the MX440 with a modern, more powerful
card to see if that resolves the KB891711 problem? -- Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm http://www.microsoft.com/athome/secu...t/default.aspx In Memorium: Alex Nichol http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/e...ts/nichol.mspx Your cooperation is very appreciated. ------ "E. Barry Bruyea" wrote in message ... On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 00:16:10 -0000, "Mike M" wrote: wrote: I'm running w98 on a P3 3000, and I have the problem. So it's not just with slower chips The problem with the 891711 hotfix isn't with the cpu chip but instead seems to be with the video card and driver version which is why some users are having problems and others not. -- Mike Maltby MS-MVP I'm running a NVIDIA GeForce 4 MX440 with their latest driver on an AMD K7 1.9 gig system, so I tend to agree with you, as that 'HotFix' really screwed up my computer. |
#96
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On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 08:34:33 -0500, "Jack E Martinelli"
wrote: Are you willing to consider replacing the MX440 with a modern, more powerful card to see if that resolves the KB891711 problem? This video card (at least up until now) has been bullet proof since installed and has suited my needs (I'm not a gamer), so I hesitate to change. What is the implication of not using this update? |
#97
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I understand. I suggested the change as a test of the video driver
interaction with KB891711. The implications of the possible exploit are spelled out in the MS notice. One must navigate to a bad actor website using the exploit. The potential problem is that such an intender can hack into some web host server farm and infect many unsuspecting author's sites long before it is discovered. Each possible mal-acting icon, etc., poses an additional item in the AV signature files, a huge task. The far better solution is to plug the loophole in the OS, as XP SP2 has already done. -- Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm http://www.microsoft.com/athome/secu...t/default.aspx In Memorium: Alex Nichol http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/e...ts/nichol.mspx Your cooperation is very appreciated. ------ "E. Barry Bruyea" wrote in message ... On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 08:34:33 -0500, "Jack E Martinelli" wrote: Are you willing to consider replacing the MX440 with a modern, more powerful card to see if that resolves the KB891711 problem? This video card (at least up until now) has been bullet proof since installed and has suited my needs (I'm not a gamer), so I hesitate to change. What is the implication of not using this update? |
#98
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I've received a request from the team that's working on the
KB891711 issue. They would like everyone in the USA who has had problems with KB891711 to call 1-866-PCSafety (1-866-727-2338). If you can help them with some info, they say they're close to reproducing the problem--first step toward solving it. I have asked for, though not yet received, assurances that callers will be taken more seriously than has been reported thus far. (According to at least a couple of people, when they called PSS they were told that KB891711 wasn't a critical problem on Win98 and to just uninstall it. KB891711 deals with a very *serious* vulnerability, affecting pretty much all Windows systems, and anyone who can't get patched decently should don at *least* a dozen condoms before journeying out onto the internet.) -- Gary S. Terhune MS MVP Shell/User http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm -- Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm http://www.microsoft.com/athome/secu...t/default.aspx In Memorium: Alex Nichol http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/e...ts/nichol.mspx Your cooperation is very appreciated. ------ "Chris" wrote in message news Gentlemen, I was browsing and all of a sudden my browser freezes and nothing could get me out. I had to shut down and reboot. Since I had Dr. Watson on, by opening it I get the following message: Windows KB891711 component has altered Windows system files. Module Name: KB891711.EXE Description: Windows KB891711 component Version: 4.10.2222 Product: Microsoft(R) Windows(R) Operating System Manufacturer: Microsoft Corporation Any idea what the heck this thing is? Dr. Watson also has been reporting for a while that : If the Taskbar is behaving strangely, try exiting Multimedia background task support module. Module Name: mmtask.tsk Description: Multimedia background task support module Version: 4.90.3000 Product: Microsoft Windows Manufacturer: Microsoft Corporation Appreciate a response! |
#99
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You are correct: DO NOT INSTALL THE UPDATE. It has nothing to do with NAV.
We are running Zone Alarm Security Suite and now we have the (dreaded) KB891711.exe issue, whatever the issue is. We have NO NORTON products either but still got this error. We are working now to remove files from the hard drive and put XP on it....or maybe I will go back to 98SE!! "heirloom" wrote: I'm still reluctant to apply the patch, even though I am no longer running any Norton products. As with other updates, this one DOES create a restore point (for those that fail to do so manually), doesn't it? Heirloom, old and EZ AV is working for me "Noel Paton" wrote in message ... (OK, I'll say it - blame Norton!! They've managed to f^&* up everything else in ME, so why should this patch be any different??) -- Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2005, Windows) Nil Carborundum Illegitemi http://www.btinternet.com/~winnoel/millsrpch.htm http://tinyurl.com/6oztj Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to NG's "Galen" wrote in message ... In , heirloom had this to say: My reply is at the bottom of your sent message: I am seeing a lot of references to this particular update causing problems with a common denominator of NAV (or related Symantec product). When installing this update, does it not create a restore point? And, yes, due to the nature of NAV, it would be necessary to reinstall after a System Restore. Has anyone pinned this on the use of Symantec products??....or is there still a chance it is browser related?? Heirloom, old and holding off on this one No one has had the gaul to blame NAV yet though I've been leaning towards it. My biggest problem is taking it out on a single company when there are too many variables. I'd absolutely hate to be the person who caused a large group of people to switch to more effective solutions. Well, okay, I would... But I do try to examine ALL potentials before jumping out and saying it's NAV. However this does seem to be the one constant among most of the posts... I think, my good sir, that Heirloom shall be the bearer of bad news on this one See also the number of threads in the 98 group. The update is specifically about this: http://www.microsoft.com/technet/Sec.../ms05-002.mspx It's only available via the updates site itself for 9x/ME. Some have trouble, some do not... Methinks if I were more carefully oriented I could go back and cite examples to SUPPORT your NAV claim my good sir. Indeed it seems likely as I browse through my answers which are highlighted and flagged to appear on top. However, I'm not tellin' all of 'em! They'll lynch me! I'm only 31 and have a wife and 2 kids! Besides, I'm a coward :P You tell 'em... Galen -- Signature changed for a moment of silence. Rest well Alex and we'll see you on the other side. |
#100
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You only need to prevent the patch from running - that fixes the problem!!
To do so, either uninstall it from Add/Remove Programs, or use MSCONFIG to prevent the launch at boot (in the Startup tab) could you please run Everest Home Edition (www.lavalys.com on the PC *Before* upgrading to XP (if you decide that's the way to go), and send me the resulting report file? - my email is valid. Thanks -- Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2005, Windows) Nil Carborundum Illegitemi http://www.btinternet.com/~winnoel/millsrpch.htm In fond memory of one of life's Gentlemen - Alex Nichol http://www.aumha.org/alex.htm Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to NG's "wr4fsu" wrote in message ... You are correct: DO NOT INSTALL THE UPDATE. It has nothing to do with NAV. We are running Zone Alarm Security Suite and now we have the (dreaded) KB891711.exe issue, whatever the issue is. We have NO NORTON products either but still got this error. We are working now to remove files from the hard drive and put XP on it....or maybe I will go back to 98SE!! "heirloom" wrote: I'm still reluctant to apply the patch, even though I am no longer running any Norton products. As with other updates, this one DOES create a restore point (for those that fail to do so manually), doesn't it? Heirloom, old and EZ AV is working for me "Noel Paton" wrote in message ... (OK, I'll say it - blame Norton!! They've managed to f^&* up everything else in ME, so why should this patch be any different??) -- Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2005, Windows) Nil Carborundum Illegitemi http://www.btinternet.com/~winnoel/millsrpch.htm http://tinyurl.com/6oztj Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to NG's "Galen" wrote in message ... In , heirloom had this to say: My reply is at the bottom of your sent message: I am seeing a lot of references to this particular update causing problems with a common denominator of NAV (or related Symantec product). When installing this update, does it not create a restore point? And, yes, due to the nature of NAV, it would be necessary to reinstall after a System Restore. Has anyone pinned this on the use of Symantec products??....or is there still a chance it is browser related?? Heirloom, old and holding off on this one No one has had the gaul to blame NAV yet though I've been leaning towards it. My biggest problem is taking it out on a single company when there are too many variables. I'd absolutely hate to be the person who caused a large group of people to switch to more effective solutions. Well, okay, I would... But I do try to examine ALL potentials before jumping out and saying it's NAV. However this does seem to be the one constant among most of the posts... I think, my good sir, that Heirloom shall be the bearer of bad news on this one See also the number of threads in the 98 group. The update is specifically about this: http://www.microsoft.com/technet/Sec.../ms05-002.mspx It's only available via the updates site itself for 9x/ME. Some have trouble, some do not... Methinks if I were more carefully oriented I could go back and cite examples to SUPPORT your NAV claim my good sir. Indeed it seems likely as I browse through my answers which are highlighted and flagged to appear on top. However, I'm not tellin' all of 'em! They'll lynch me! I'm only 31 and have a wife and 2 kids! Besides, I'm a coward :P You tell 'em... Galen -- Signature changed for a moment of silence. Rest well Alex and we'll see you on the other side. |
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