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Defrag problems



 
 
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  #101  
Old January 12th 10, 11:19 PM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
MEB[_17_]
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 1,830
Default Defrag problems

On 01/12/2010 01:48 PM, MEB wrote:
On 01/12/2010 06:21 AM, Aster wrote:

"MEB" wrote in message
...
On 01/08/2010 06:42 AM, Aster wrote:

"Bill Blanton" wrote in message
...
On 1/6/2010 05:47, Aster wrote:


Also, according to microsoft, the volume must have at least 15 percent
free space for Defrag to completely and adequately defragment it.
Defrag
uses this space as a sorting area for file fragments. If a volume has
less than 15 percent free space, Defrag only partially defragments it.
So, if my 20Gb hard drive has only 1.53Gb free space and I have
performed defrag, my volume has been just partially defragmented?

If you only have 1.5GB free it's either time to move some data off, or
buy another drive. If you're thinking that defrag is going to speed up
your system considerably, it won't. Far better to look at what
processes are running in the background.

It was mentioned that Scandisk reported bad clusters. In that case
stay away from any defrag utility. Defrag is for healthy disks.

---------------

still not clear, has been my volume fully defragged, or just some
partially? Canno check this, since there is no 'Analyze' disk option,
like win XP has.


Uhm, here's what I found in Win9X in similar situations:

1. *IF* I had *disabled virtual memory* and thereby deleted the swap
file upon re-boot before the scandisk/defrag, then yes, during the first
run, though it took even longer. This frees up MORE space, though it can
only be done on computers in which there is sufficient memory and
limited background apps.
The reason is to place the swap in contiguous blocks rather than
scattered around the disk, and the extra time comes from moving all
those files to fill in the now blanked/freed areas. The swap is then
placed at the end of the used file area when re-enabled.
The warning you refer to [15%] comes from the necessity to ensure there
IS available swap space/area sufficient to run "not only"
scandisk/defrag, but also for large and/or numerous applications being
run and being swapped, *particularly* if you have not disabled what you
can for the scandisk/defrag operations [hence why it is recommended to
limit these background applications during the activities].

A. *IF* you have lots of memory, then you can limit the swap to a small
area (or disable it) and *force* Windows to use physical memory instead.

2. *IF* leaving memory control in the hands of Windows during
scandisk/defrag, then expect it will constantly warn about disk changes,
at least until you tell it not to warn you again. Also note:

A. you haven't really defragmented the disk completely/thoroughly [due
to the non-contiguous swap areas];

1. this is fine for normal usage, however, it is good idea to do a
*thorough* scandisk and defrag on your disk(s) "every once in awhile"
[depending upon your usage and/or needs].

3. Remember, many application's files may expand during usage so the
defrag actually only lasts for a relatively short time period as these
are moved around the disk to free areas, leaving small previously
claimed "file" areas as freed, which may be filled in with smaller files
from other applications or otherwise (as in parts of files or similar)
starting the fragmentation process again.

4. *IF* installing and un-installing are part of your normal usage,
EXPECT the disk to be severely fragmented. The systems being used in
this fashion REQUIRE scandisk and defrag or other disk maintenance tools
be used more frequently.

--
MEB


How to disable virtual memory?

Aster


Control Panel - System - Performance -

Remember you MUST have sufficient memory installed AND you need to stop
as many startup programs, power management, screen savers, etc., as
possible to ensure there is no disk activity other than from
scandisk/defrag, and which would require swap access. Alternatively,
*IF* you have sufficient physical memory, then you could create a ram
drive and place a small manually configured swap area there.
I always use sysinternals' AUTORUNS to disable whatever programs from
starting. NOTE though, that you must be careful about what you disable
as a large percentage of the shown are part of the required system
internal [hence sysinternals] workings and disabling them can stop
Windows from loading at all.


Contemplating questions/responses regarding swap, virtual memory, and
other related:

The below information presume you have a large amount of physical
memory - meaning over 256megs - preferably 512 or more, OR you use a
"lite" 98 version, OR you address diskless [limited disk usage]
operation in a different form. Many settings discussed in the
articles/information can be used in any 9X system.

Windows 98 Msdosdrv.txt File
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/191473

How to Use a RAM Drive to Troubleshoot Memory
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/142546

Memory management
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/835645

Make Windows 98 faster and easier to use
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/834371


EXAMPLES of how far Win98 diskless/ramdisk can be taken and what is
required.

Windows 98 Diskless Operation using a RAM Disk
http://www.bootix.com/support/sample...skless_en.html
Demo Versions, Documentation, Utility Programs for Download
http://www.bootix.com/download/download_en.html

Diskless win98
http://www.etherboot.org/wiki/disklesswin98

How to build a Windows98 based DC Farm.
http://www.nelliott.demon.co.uk/dist..._to_build.html

Fun with too much RAM.
http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?t=25059

Utilities for DOS and Windows {such as xmsdsk}
http://www.uwe-sieber.de/util_e.html


EXAMPLE of an old 6.22 usage:

Autoexec.bat:
LH /L:0;1,688 /S C:\DOS\XMSDSK.exe 64000 F: /T /Y
rem (you will want to change 64000 to something that suits your purpose)
xcopy command.com F:\
SET COMSPEC=F:\COMMAND.COM
MD F:\TEMP
SET TEMP=F:\TEMP
SET TMP=F:\TEMP

Config.sys:
DEVICE={where himem is loaded from}:/himem.sys
SHELL=COMMAND.COM /P /E:512


We have had numerous discussions on large amounts of memory in this
group, so you can look back through the archived pages on various sites.
There are other settings that should be used, such as in System.ini you
have to add "ConservativeSwapfileUsage=1" under the [386Enh] section.
Might look like this:
add these lines in the system.ini then reboot

[vcache]
MinFileCache=0
MaxFileCache=16384

[386enh]
ConservativeSwapfileUsage=1
MinSPs=8

**** use a 4 above if you don't have 256mb ram such as: MinSPs=4 the
default is 2 - adjust accordingly, same for the other usable settings
[including those not shown here] to match your available memory and
requirements.

A discussion can be found he
http://www.computing.net/answers/win...ile/19090.html


FYI: Tools Are Unavailable on Windows 98 (Retail Version) Boot Disk
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/191252

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.org/ref/windows-main.htm
Windows Info, Diagnostics, Security, Networking
http://peoplescounsel.org
The "real world" of Law, Justice, and Government
___---
  #102  
Old January 12th 10, 11:19 PM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
MEB[_17_]
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 1,830
Default Defrag problems

On 01/12/2010 01:48 PM, MEB wrote:
On 01/12/2010 06:21 AM, Aster wrote:

"MEB" wrote in message
...
On 01/08/2010 06:42 AM, Aster wrote:

"Bill Blanton" wrote in message
...
On 1/6/2010 05:47, Aster wrote:


Also, according to microsoft, the volume must have at least 15 percent
free space for Defrag to completely and adequately defragment it.
Defrag
uses this space as a sorting area for file fragments. If a volume has
less than 15 percent free space, Defrag only partially defragments it.
So, if my 20Gb hard drive has only 1.53Gb free space and I have
performed defrag, my volume has been just partially defragmented?

If you only have 1.5GB free it's either time to move some data off, or
buy another drive. If you're thinking that defrag is going to speed up
your system considerably, it won't. Far better to look at what
processes are running in the background.

It was mentioned that Scandisk reported bad clusters. In that case
stay away from any defrag utility. Defrag is for healthy disks.

---------------

still not clear, has been my volume fully defragged, or just some
partially? Canno check this, since there is no 'Analyze' disk option,
like win XP has.


Uhm, here's what I found in Win9X in similar situations:

1. *IF* I had *disabled virtual memory* and thereby deleted the swap
file upon re-boot before the scandisk/defrag, then yes, during the first
run, though it took even longer. This frees up MORE space, though it can
only be done on computers in which there is sufficient memory and
limited background apps.
The reason is to place the swap in contiguous blocks rather than
scattered around the disk, and the extra time comes from moving all
those files to fill in the now blanked/freed areas. The swap is then
placed at the end of the used file area when re-enabled.
The warning you refer to [15%] comes from the necessity to ensure there
IS available swap space/area sufficient to run "not only"
scandisk/defrag, but also for large and/or numerous applications being
run and being swapped, *particularly* if you have not disabled what you
can for the scandisk/defrag operations [hence why it is recommended to
limit these background applications during the activities].

A. *IF* you have lots of memory, then you can limit the swap to a small
area (or disable it) and *force* Windows to use physical memory instead.

2. *IF* leaving memory control in the hands of Windows during
scandisk/defrag, then expect it will constantly warn about disk changes,
at least until you tell it not to warn you again. Also note:

A. you haven't really defragmented the disk completely/thoroughly [due
to the non-contiguous swap areas];

1. this is fine for normal usage, however, it is good idea to do a
*thorough* scandisk and defrag on your disk(s) "every once in awhile"
[depending upon your usage and/or needs].

3. Remember, many application's files may expand during usage so the
defrag actually only lasts for a relatively short time period as these
are moved around the disk to free areas, leaving small previously
claimed "file" areas as freed, which may be filled in with smaller files
from other applications or otherwise (as in parts of files or similar)
starting the fragmentation process again.

4. *IF* installing and un-installing are part of your normal usage,
EXPECT the disk to be severely fragmented. The systems being used in
this fashion REQUIRE scandisk and defrag or other disk maintenance tools
be used more frequently.

--
MEB


How to disable virtual memory?

Aster


Control Panel - System - Performance -

Remember you MUST have sufficient memory installed AND you need to stop
as many startup programs, power management, screen savers, etc., as
possible to ensure there is no disk activity other than from
scandisk/defrag, and which would require swap access. Alternatively,
*IF* you have sufficient physical memory, then you could create a ram
drive and place a small manually configured swap area there.
I always use sysinternals' AUTORUNS to disable whatever programs from
starting. NOTE though, that you must be careful about what you disable
as a large percentage of the shown are part of the required system
internal [hence sysinternals] workings and disabling them can stop
Windows from loading at all.


Contemplating questions/responses regarding swap, virtual memory, and
other related:

The below information presume you have a large amount of physical
memory - meaning over 256megs - preferably 512 or more, OR you use a
"lite" 98 version, OR you address diskless [limited disk usage]
operation in a different form. Many settings discussed in the
articles/information can be used in any 9X system.

Windows 98 Msdosdrv.txt File
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/191473

How to Use a RAM Drive to Troubleshoot Memory
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/142546

Memory management
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/835645

Make Windows 98 faster and easier to use
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/834371


EXAMPLES of how far Win98 diskless/ramdisk can be taken and what is
required.

Windows 98 Diskless Operation using a RAM Disk
http://www.bootix.com/support/sample...skless_en.html
Demo Versions, Documentation, Utility Programs for Download
http://www.bootix.com/download/download_en.html

Diskless win98
http://www.etherboot.org/wiki/disklesswin98

How to build a Windows98 based DC Farm.
http://www.nelliott.demon.co.uk/dist..._to_build.html

Fun with too much RAM.
http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?t=25059

Utilities for DOS and Windows {such as xmsdsk}
http://www.uwe-sieber.de/util_e.html


EXAMPLE of an old 6.22 usage:

Autoexec.bat:
LH /L:0;1,688 /S C:\DOS\XMSDSK.exe 64000 F: /T /Y
rem (you will want to change 64000 to something that suits your purpose)
xcopy command.com F:\
SET COMSPEC=F:\COMMAND.COM
MD F:\TEMP
SET TEMP=F:\TEMP
SET TMP=F:\TEMP

Config.sys:
DEVICE={where himem is loaded from}:/himem.sys
SHELL=COMMAND.COM /P /E:512


We have had numerous discussions on large amounts of memory in this
group, so you can look back through the archived pages on various sites.
There are other settings that should be used, such as in System.ini you
have to add "ConservativeSwapfileUsage=1" under the [386Enh] section.
Might look like this:
add these lines in the system.ini then reboot

[vcache]
MinFileCache=0
MaxFileCache=16384

[386enh]
ConservativeSwapfileUsage=1
MinSPs=8

**** use a 4 above if you don't have 256mb ram such as: MinSPs=4 the
default is 2 - adjust accordingly, same for the other usable settings
[including those not shown here] to match your available memory and
requirements.

A discussion can be found he
http://www.computing.net/answers/win...ile/19090.html


FYI: Tools Are Unavailable on Windows 98 (Retail Version) Boot Disk
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/191252

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.org/ref/windows-main.htm
Windows Info, Diagnostics, Security, Networking
http://peoplescounsel.org
The "real world" of Law, Justice, and Government
___---
  #103  
Old January 13th 10, 06:04 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
Jeff Richards
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 1,526
Default Defrag problems

"Aster" wrote in message
...

snip

Is there good hard disk diagnostic utility without stressing harddrive?


No. At the very least the diagnostic will want to read the whole disk
surface, but typically it will 'exercise' the disk as part of trying to
uncover problems that ordinary usage might not reveal. That way it can give
a warning of possible failure before it actually occurs. For instance, it's
common to do a series of head seeks from track 0 to all other tracks in
turn - the noise the drive will make during this exercise is quite
distinctive. Because there is a process to confirm that the seek succeeded
(it reached the correct track) running this test can reveal if there are any
problems with the head actuator, such as sticking, that might not appear at
all under easier usage conditions, or might be masked by a simple retry.

Diagnostics will always use the disk more vigorously than would occur
normally.


  #104  
Old January 13th 10, 06:04 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
Jeff Richards
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 1,526
Default Defrag problems

"Aster" wrote in message
...

snip

Is there good hard disk diagnostic utility without stressing harddrive?


No. At the very least the diagnostic will want to read the whole disk
surface, but typically it will 'exercise' the disk as part of trying to
uncover problems that ordinary usage might not reveal. That way it can give
a warning of possible failure before it actually occurs. For instance, it's
common to do a series of head seeks from track 0 to all other tracks in
turn - the noise the drive will make during this exercise is quite
distinctive. Because there is a process to confirm that the seek succeeded
(it reached the correct track) running this test can reveal if there are any
problems with the head actuator, such as sticking, that might not appear at
all under easier usage conditions, or might be masked by a simple retry.

Diagnostics will always use the disk more vigorously than would occur
normally.


 




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