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#101
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Defrag problems
On 01/12/2010 01:48 PM, MEB wrote:
On 01/12/2010 06:21 AM, Aster wrote: "MEB" wrote in message ... On 01/08/2010 06:42 AM, Aster wrote: "Bill Blanton" wrote in message ... On 1/6/2010 05:47, Aster wrote: Also, according to microsoft, the volume must have at least 15 percent free space for Defrag to completely and adequately defragment it. Defrag uses this space as a sorting area for file fragments. If a volume has less than 15 percent free space, Defrag only partially defragments it. So, if my 20Gb hard drive has only 1.53Gb free space and I have performed defrag, my volume has been just partially defragmented? If you only have 1.5GB free it's either time to move some data off, or buy another drive. If you're thinking that defrag is going to speed up your system considerably, it won't. Far better to look at what processes are running in the background. It was mentioned that Scandisk reported bad clusters. In that case stay away from any defrag utility. Defrag is for healthy disks. --------------- still not clear, has been my volume fully defragged, or just some partially? Canno check this, since there is no 'Analyze' disk option, like win XP has. Uhm, here's what I found in Win9X in similar situations: 1. *IF* I had *disabled virtual memory* and thereby deleted the swap file upon re-boot before the scandisk/defrag, then yes, during the first run, though it took even longer. This frees up MORE space, though it can only be done on computers in which there is sufficient memory and limited background apps. The reason is to place the swap in contiguous blocks rather than scattered around the disk, and the extra time comes from moving all those files to fill in the now blanked/freed areas. The swap is then placed at the end of the used file area when re-enabled. The warning you refer to [15%] comes from the necessity to ensure there IS available swap space/area sufficient to run "not only" scandisk/defrag, but also for large and/or numerous applications being run and being swapped, *particularly* if you have not disabled what you can for the scandisk/defrag operations [hence why it is recommended to limit these background applications during the activities]. A. *IF* you have lots of memory, then you can limit the swap to a small area (or disable it) and *force* Windows to use physical memory instead. 2. *IF* leaving memory control in the hands of Windows during scandisk/defrag, then expect it will constantly warn about disk changes, at least until you tell it not to warn you again. Also note: A. you haven't really defragmented the disk completely/thoroughly [due to the non-contiguous swap areas]; 1. this is fine for normal usage, however, it is good idea to do a *thorough* scandisk and defrag on your disk(s) "every once in awhile" [depending upon your usage and/or needs]. 3. Remember, many application's files may expand during usage so the defrag actually only lasts for a relatively short time period as these are moved around the disk to free areas, leaving small previously claimed "file" areas as freed, which may be filled in with smaller files from other applications or otherwise (as in parts of files or similar) starting the fragmentation process again. 4. *IF* installing and un-installing are part of your normal usage, EXPECT the disk to be severely fragmented. The systems being used in this fashion REQUIRE scandisk and defrag or other disk maintenance tools be used more frequently. -- MEB How to disable virtual memory? Aster Control Panel - System - Performance - Remember you MUST have sufficient memory installed AND you need to stop as many startup programs, power management, screen savers, etc., as possible to ensure there is no disk activity other than from scandisk/defrag, and which would require swap access. Alternatively, *IF* you have sufficient physical memory, then you could create a ram drive and place a small manually configured swap area there. I always use sysinternals' AUTORUNS to disable whatever programs from starting. NOTE though, that you must be careful about what you disable as a large percentage of the shown are part of the required system internal [hence sysinternals] workings and disabling them can stop Windows from loading at all. Contemplating questions/responses regarding swap, virtual memory, and other related: The below information presume you have a large amount of physical memory - meaning over 256megs - preferably 512 or more, OR you use a "lite" 98 version, OR you address diskless [limited disk usage] operation in a different form. Many settings discussed in the articles/information can be used in any 9X system. Windows 98 Msdosdrv.txt File http://support.microsoft.com/kb/191473 How to Use a RAM Drive to Troubleshoot Memory http://support.microsoft.com/kb/142546 Memory management http://support.microsoft.com/kb/835645 Make Windows 98 faster and easier to use http://support.microsoft.com/kb/834371 EXAMPLES of how far Win98 diskless/ramdisk can be taken and what is required. Windows 98 Diskless Operation using a RAM Disk http://www.bootix.com/support/sample...skless_en.html Demo Versions, Documentation, Utility Programs for Download http://www.bootix.com/download/download_en.html Diskless win98 http://www.etherboot.org/wiki/disklesswin98 How to build a Windows98 based DC Farm. http://www.nelliott.demon.co.uk/dist..._to_build.html Fun with too much RAM. http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?t=25059 Utilities for DOS and Windows {such as xmsdsk} http://www.uwe-sieber.de/util_e.html EXAMPLE of an old 6.22 usage: Autoexec.bat: LH /L:0;1,688 /S C:\DOS\XMSDSK.exe 64000 F: /T /Y rem (you will want to change 64000 to something that suits your purpose) xcopy command.com F:\ SET COMSPEC=F:\COMMAND.COM MD F:\TEMP SET TEMP=F:\TEMP SET TMP=F:\TEMP Config.sys: DEVICE={where himem is loaded from}:/himem.sys SHELL=COMMAND.COM /P /E:512 We have had numerous discussions on large amounts of memory in this group, so you can look back through the archived pages on various sites. There are other settings that should be used, such as in System.ini you have to add "ConservativeSwapfileUsage=1" under the [386Enh] section. Might look like this: add these lines in the system.ini then reboot [vcache] MinFileCache=0 MaxFileCache=16384 [386enh] ConservativeSwapfileUsage=1 MinSPs=8 **** use a 4 above if you don't have 256mb ram such as: MinSPs=4 the default is 2 - adjust accordingly, same for the other usable settings [including those not shown here] to match your available memory and requirements. A discussion can be found he http://www.computing.net/answers/win...ile/19090.html FYI: Tools Are Unavailable on Windows 98 (Retail Version) Boot Disk http://support.microsoft.com/kb/191252 -- MEB http://peoplescounsel.org/ref/windows-main.htm Windows Info, Diagnostics, Security, Networking http://peoplescounsel.org The "real world" of Law, Justice, and Government ___--- |
#102
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Defrag problems
On 01/12/2010 01:48 PM, MEB wrote:
On 01/12/2010 06:21 AM, Aster wrote: "MEB" wrote in message ... On 01/08/2010 06:42 AM, Aster wrote: "Bill Blanton" wrote in message ... On 1/6/2010 05:47, Aster wrote: Also, according to microsoft, the volume must have at least 15 percent free space for Defrag to completely and adequately defragment it. Defrag uses this space as a sorting area for file fragments. If a volume has less than 15 percent free space, Defrag only partially defragments it. So, if my 20Gb hard drive has only 1.53Gb free space and I have performed defrag, my volume has been just partially defragmented? If you only have 1.5GB free it's either time to move some data off, or buy another drive. If you're thinking that defrag is going to speed up your system considerably, it won't. Far better to look at what processes are running in the background. It was mentioned that Scandisk reported bad clusters. In that case stay away from any defrag utility. Defrag is for healthy disks. --------------- still not clear, has been my volume fully defragged, or just some partially? Canno check this, since there is no 'Analyze' disk option, like win XP has. Uhm, here's what I found in Win9X in similar situations: 1. *IF* I had *disabled virtual memory* and thereby deleted the swap file upon re-boot before the scandisk/defrag, then yes, during the first run, though it took even longer. This frees up MORE space, though it can only be done on computers in which there is sufficient memory and limited background apps. The reason is to place the swap in contiguous blocks rather than scattered around the disk, and the extra time comes from moving all those files to fill in the now blanked/freed areas. The swap is then placed at the end of the used file area when re-enabled. The warning you refer to [15%] comes from the necessity to ensure there IS available swap space/area sufficient to run "not only" scandisk/defrag, but also for large and/or numerous applications being run and being swapped, *particularly* if you have not disabled what you can for the scandisk/defrag operations [hence why it is recommended to limit these background applications during the activities]. A. *IF* you have lots of memory, then you can limit the swap to a small area (or disable it) and *force* Windows to use physical memory instead. 2. *IF* leaving memory control in the hands of Windows during scandisk/defrag, then expect it will constantly warn about disk changes, at least until you tell it not to warn you again. Also note: A. you haven't really defragmented the disk completely/thoroughly [due to the non-contiguous swap areas]; 1. this is fine for normal usage, however, it is good idea to do a *thorough* scandisk and defrag on your disk(s) "every once in awhile" [depending upon your usage and/or needs]. 3. Remember, many application's files may expand during usage so the defrag actually only lasts for a relatively short time period as these are moved around the disk to free areas, leaving small previously claimed "file" areas as freed, which may be filled in with smaller files from other applications or otherwise (as in parts of files or similar) starting the fragmentation process again. 4. *IF* installing and un-installing are part of your normal usage, EXPECT the disk to be severely fragmented. The systems being used in this fashion REQUIRE scandisk and defrag or other disk maintenance tools be used more frequently. -- MEB How to disable virtual memory? Aster Control Panel - System - Performance - Remember you MUST have sufficient memory installed AND you need to stop as many startup programs, power management, screen savers, etc., as possible to ensure there is no disk activity other than from scandisk/defrag, and which would require swap access. Alternatively, *IF* you have sufficient physical memory, then you could create a ram drive and place a small manually configured swap area there. I always use sysinternals' AUTORUNS to disable whatever programs from starting. NOTE though, that you must be careful about what you disable as a large percentage of the shown are part of the required system internal [hence sysinternals] workings and disabling them can stop Windows from loading at all. Contemplating questions/responses regarding swap, virtual memory, and other related: The below information presume you have a large amount of physical memory - meaning over 256megs - preferably 512 or more, OR you use a "lite" 98 version, OR you address diskless [limited disk usage] operation in a different form. Many settings discussed in the articles/information can be used in any 9X system. Windows 98 Msdosdrv.txt File http://support.microsoft.com/kb/191473 How to Use a RAM Drive to Troubleshoot Memory http://support.microsoft.com/kb/142546 Memory management http://support.microsoft.com/kb/835645 Make Windows 98 faster and easier to use http://support.microsoft.com/kb/834371 EXAMPLES of how far Win98 diskless/ramdisk can be taken and what is required. Windows 98 Diskless Operation using a RAM Disk http://www.bootix.com/support/sample...skless_en.html Demo Versions, Documentation, Utility Programs for Download http://www.bootix.com/download/download_en.html Diskless win98 http://www.etherboot.org/wiki/disklesswin98 How to build a Windows98 based DC Farm. http://www.nelliott.demon.co.uk/dist..._to_build.html Fun with too much RAM. http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?t=25059 Utilities for DOS and Windows {such as xmsdsk} http://www.uwe-sieber.de/util_e.html EXAMPLE of an old 6.22 usage: Autoexec.bat: LH /L:0;1,688 /S C:\DOS\XMSDSK.exe 64000 F: /T /Y rem (you will want to change 64000 to something that suits your purpose) xcopy command.com F:\ SET COMSPEC=F:\COMMAND.COM MD F:\TEMP SET TEMP=F:\TEMP SET TMP=F:\TEMP Config.sys: DEVICE={where himem is loaded from}:/himem.sys SHELL=COMMAND.COM /P /E:512 We have had numerous discussions on large amounts of memory in this group, so you can look back through the archived pages on various sites. There are other settings that should be used, such as in System.ini you have to add "ConservativeSwapfileUsage=1" under the [386Enh] section. Might look like this: add these lines in the system.ini then reboot [vcache] MinFileCache=0 MaxFileCache=16384 [386enh] ConservativeSwapfileUsage=1 MinSPs=8 **** use a 4 above if you don't have 256mb ram such as: MinSPs=4 the default is 2 - adjust accordingly, same for the other usable settings [including those not shown here] to match your available memory and requirements. A discussion can be found he http://www.computing.net/answers/win...ile/19090.html FYI: Tools Are Unavailable on Windows 98 (Retail Version) Boot Disk http://support.microsoft.com/kb/191252 -- MEB http://peoplescounsel.org/ref/windows-main.htm Windows Info, Diagnostics, Security, Networking http://peoplescounsel.org The "real world" of Law, Justice, and Government ___--- |
#103
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Defrag problems
"Aster" wrote in message
... snip Is there good hard disk diagnostic utility without stressing harddrive? No. At the very least the diagnostic will want to read the whole disk surface, but typically it will 'exercise' the disk as part of trying to uncover problems that ordinary usage might not reveal. That way it can give a warning of possible failure before it actually occurs. For instance, it's common to do a series of head seeks from track 0 to all other tracks in turn - the noise the drive will make during this exercise is quite distinctive. Because there is a process to confirm that the seek succeeded (it reached the correct track) running this test can reveal if there are any problems with the head actuator, such as sticking, that might not appear at all under easier usage conditions, or might be masked by a simple retry. Diagnostics will always use the disk more vigorously than would occur normally. |
#104
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Defrag problems
"Aster" wrote in message
... snip Is there good hard disk diagnostic utility without stressing harddrive? No. At the very least the diagnostic will want to read the whole disk surface, but typically it will 'exercise' the disk as part of trying to uncover problems that ordinary usage might not reveal. That way it can give a warning of possible failure before it actually occurs. For instance, it's common to do a series of head seeks from track 0 to all other tracks in turn - the noise the drive will make during this exercise is quite distinctive. Because there is a process to confirm that the seek succeeded (it reached the correct track) running this test can reveal if there are any problems with the head actuator, such as sticking, that might not appear at all under easier usage conditions, or might be masked by a simple retry. Diagnostics will always use the disk more vigorously than would occur normally. |
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