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Defrag problems



 
 
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  #91  
Old January 12th 10, 02:34 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
Jeff Richards
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 1,526
Default Defrag problems

"Aster" wrote in message
...
snip

Also, according to microsoft, the volume must have at least 15 percent
free space for Defrag to completely and adequately defragment it. Defrag
uses this space as a sorting area for file fragments. If a volume has less
than 15 percent free space, Defrag only partially defragments it. So, if
my 20Gb hard drive has only 1.53Gb free space and I have performed defrag,
my volume has been just partially defragmented?


Partial defragging probably means that free space was not consolidated. In
other words, files are no longer fragmented, but free space is. This might
mean that the disk becomes fragmented more quickly as you use it. However
partial might also mean that larger files were skipped, or were consolidated
into a small number of large fragments rather than being fully defragged.


  #92  
Old January 12th 10, 02:34 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
Jeff Richards
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 1,526
Default Defrag problems

"Jim" wrote in message
...
Hi Glen,
I know you are long since past this post, but I was curious about why this
is so concerning the rearranging of the frequently used programs. Also, is
this why ZA firewall and other running programs often must be dropped in
order to defrag the HDD?
Does this speed up the defrag process without loss of purpose?
Does this apply to the win98se defrag program?


I don't think this has anything to do with the need to stop other programs
running while you defrag - files that are in use will not be moved.

The problem with the feature is that it slows down the defrag process
considerably. Turning it off makes the defrag run a lot faster. The
benefit of the re-arrangment is very limited, and not really worth the extra
trouble it makes for defragging. Also, it tends to make changes that are
probably unnecessary - you can run defrag two times in close succession and
programs will still be shuffled around. That tells me that the re-arranging
is somewhat arbitrary. My recomendation is to run it with the option turned
on no more than once every siz months, but in practice I find that I leave
the option permanently turned off.


  #93  
Old January 12th 10, 02:34 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
Jeff Richards
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 1,526
Default Defrag problems

"Jim" wrote in message
...
Hi Glen,
I know you are long since past this post, but I was curious about why this
is so concerning the rearranging of the frequently used programs. Also, is
this why ZA firewall and other running programs often must be dropped in
order to defrag the HDD?
Does this speed up the defrag process without loss of purpose?
Does this apply to the win98se defrag program?


I don't think this has anything to do with the need to stop other programs
running while you defrag - files that are in use will not be moved.

The problem with the feature is that it slows down the defrag process
considerably. Turning it off makes the defrag run a lot faster. The
benefit of the re-arrangment is very limited, and not really worth the extra
trouble it makes for defragging. Also, it tends to make changes that are
probably unnecessary - you can run defrag two times in close succession and
programs will still be shuffled around. That tells me that the re-arranging
is somewhat arbitrary. My recomendation is to run it with the option turned
on no more than once every siz months, but in practice I find that I leave
the option permanently turned off.


  #94  
Old January 12th 10, 03:31 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
Bill in Co.
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 1,335
Default Defrag problems

Jeff Richards wrote:
"Jim" wrote in message
...
Hi Glen,
I know you are long since past this post, but I was curious about why
this
is so concerning the rearranging of the frequently used programs. Also,
is
this why ZA firewall and other running programs often must be dropped in
order to defrag the HDD?
Does this speed up the defrag process without loss of purpose?
Does this apply to the win98se defrag program?


I don't think this has anything to do with the need to stop other programs
running while you defrag - files that are in use will not be moved.


Somewhat relatedly I have noticed that when I run Defrag it sometimes gets
interrupted and has to restart again (even w/o me doing anything). Perhaps
ZA firewall interrupts it more than others.

I don't think it takes much to interrupt Defrag, however, as I don't have
ZA, and more often than not, when I use Defrag (even using WinME defrag), it
goes for so long, and then restarts.

Evidently if something is in any way accessing the disk during the time its
defragging, it may need to restart.


  #95  
Old January 12th 10, 03:31 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
Bill in Co.
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 1,335
Default Defrag problems

Jeff Richards wrote:
"Jim" wrote in message
...
Hi Glen,
I know you are long since past this post, but I was curious about why
this
is so concerning the rearranging of the frequently used programs. Also,
is
this why ZA firewall and other running programs often must be dropped in
order to defrag the HDD?
Does this speed up the defrag process without loss of purpose?
Does this apply to the win98se defrag program?


I don't think this has anything to do with the need to stop other programs
running while you defrag - files that are in use will not be moved.


Somewhat relatedly I have noticed that when I run Defrag it sometimes gets
interrupted and has to restart again (even w/o me doing anything). Perhaps
ZA firewall interrupts it more than others.

I don't think it takes much to interrupt Defrag, however, as I don't have
ZA, and more often than not, when I use Defrag (even using WinME defrag), it
goes for so long, and then restarts.

Evidently if something is in any way accessing the disk during the time its
defragging, it may need to restart.


  #96  
Old January 12th 10, 12:21 PM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
Aster
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 58
Default Defrag problems


"MEB" wrote in message
...
On 01/08/2010 06:42 AM, Aster wrote:

"Bill Blanton" wrote in message
...
On 1/6/2010 05:47, Aster wrote:


Also, according to microsoft, the volume must have at least 15 percent
free space for Defrag to completely and adequately defragment it.
Defrag
uses this space as a sorting area for file fragments. If a volume has
less than 15 percent free space, Defrag only partially defragments it.
So, if my 20Gb hard drive has only 1.53Gb free space and I have
performed defrag, my volume has been just partially defragmented?


If you only have 1.5GB free it's either time to move some data off, or
buy another drive. If you're thinking that defrag is going to speed up
your system considerably, it won't. Far better to look at what
processes are running in the background.

It was mentioned that Scandisk reported bad clusters. In that case
stay away from any defrag utility. Defrag is for healthy disks.


---------------

still not clear, has been my volume fully defragged, or just some
partially? Canno check this, since there is no 'Analyze' disk option,
like win XP has.


Uhm, here's what I found in Win9X in similar situations:

1. *IF* I had *disabled virtual memory* and thereby deleted the swap
file upon re-boot before the scandisk/defrag, then yes, during the first
run, though it took even longer. This frees up MORE space, though it can
only be done on computers in which there is sufficient memory and
limited background apps.
The reason is to place the swap in contiguous blocks rather than
scattered around the disk, and the extra time comes from moving all
those files to fill in the now blanked/freed areas. The swap is then
placed at the end of the used file area when re-enabled.
The warning you refer to [15%] comes from the necessity to ensure there
IS available swap space/area sufficient to run "not only"
scandisk/defrag, but also for large and/or numerous applications being
run and being swapped, *particularly* if you have not disabled what you
can for the scandisk/defrag operations [hence why it is recommended to
limit these background applications during the activities].

A. *IF* you have lots of memory, then you can limit the swap to a small
area (or disable it) and *force* Windows to use physical memory instead.

2. *IF* leaving memory control in the hands of Windows during
scandisk/defrag, then expect it will constantly warn about disk changes,
at least until you tell it not to warn you again. Also note:

A. you haven't really defragmented the disk completely/thoroughly [due
to the non-contiguous swap areas];

1. this is fine for normal usage, however, it is good idea to do a
*thorough* scandisk and defrag on your disk(s) "every once in awhile"
[depending upon your usage and/or needs].

3. Remember, many application's files may expand during usage so the
defrag actually only lasts for a relatively short time period as these
are moved around the disk to free areas, leaving small previously
claimed "file" areas as freed, which may be filled in with smaller files
from other applications or otherwise (as in parts of files or similar)
starting the fragmentation process again.

4. *IF* installing and un-installing are part of your normal usage,
EXPECT the disk to be severely fragmented. The systems being used in
this fashion REQUIRE scandisk and defrag or other disk maintenance tools
be used more frequently.

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.org/ref/windows-main.htm
Windows Info, Diagnostics, Security, Networking
http://peoplescounsel.org
The "real world" of Law, Justice, and Government

---------------

How to disable virtual memory?

Aster

  #97  
Old January 12th 10, 12:21 PM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
Aster
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 58
Default Defrag problems


"MEB" wrote in message
...
On 01/08/2010 06:42 AM, Aster wrote:

"Bill Blanton" wrote in message
...
On 1/6/2010 05:47, Aster wrote:


Also, according to microsoft, the volume must have at least 15 percent
free space for Defrag to completely and adequately defragment it.
Defrag
uses this space as a sorting area for file fragments. If a volume has
less than 15 percent free space, Defrag only partially defragments it.
So, if my 20Gb hard drive has only 1.53Gb free space and I have
performed defrag, my volume has been just partially defragmented?


If you only have 1.5GB free it's either time to move some data off, or
buy another drive. If you're thinking that defrag is going to speed up
your system considerably, it won't. Far better to look at what
processes are running in the background.

It was mentioned that Scandisk reported bad clusters. In that case
stay away from any defrag utility. Defrag is for healthy disks.


---------------

still not clear, has been my volume fully defragged, or just some
partially? Canno check this, since there is no 'Analyze' disk option,
like win XP has.


Uhm, here's what I found in Win9X in similar situations:

1. *IF* I had *disabled virtual memory* and thereby deleted the swap
file upon re-boot before the scandisk/defrag, then yes, during the first
run, though it took even longer. This frees up MORE space, though it can
only be done on computers in which there is sufficient memory and
limited background apps.
The reason is to place the swap in contiguous blocks rather than
scattered around the disk, and the extra time comes from moving all
those files to fill in the now blanked/freed areas. The swap is then
placed at the end of the used file area when re-enabled.
The warning you refer to [15%] comes from the necessity to ensure there
IS available swap space/area sufficient to run "not only"
scandisk/defrag, but also for large and/or numerous applications being
run and being swapped, *particularly* if you have not disabled what you
can for the scandisk/defrag operations [hence why it is recommended to
limit these background applications during the activities].

A. *IF* you have lots of memory, then you can limit the swap to a small
area (or disable it) and *force* Windows to use physical memory instead.

2. *IF* leaving memory control in the hands of Windows during
scandisk/defrag, then expect it will constantly warn about disk changes,
at least until you tell it not to warn you again. Also note:

A. you haven't really defragmented the disk completely/thoroughly [due
to the non-contiguous swap areas];

1. this is fine for normal usage, however, it is good idea to do a
*thorough* scandisk and defrag on your disk(s) "every once in awhile"
[depending upon your usage and/or needs].

3. Remember, many application's files may expand during usage so the
defrag actually only lasts for a relatively short time period as these
are moved around the disk to free areas, leaving small previously
claimed "file" areas as freed, which may be filled in with smaller files
from other applications or otherwise (as in parts of files or similar)
starting the fragmentation process again.

4. *IF* installing and un-installing are part of your normal usage,
EXPECT the disk to be severely fragmented. The systems being used in
this fashion REQUIRE scandisk and defrag or other disk maintenance tools
be used more frequently.

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.org/ref/windows-main.htm
Windows Info, Diagnostics, Security, Networking
http://peoplescounsel.org
The "real world" of Law, Justice, and Government

---------------

How to disable virtual memory?

Aster

  #98  
Old January 12th 10, 01:03 PM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
Aster
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 58
Default Defrag problems


"Jeff Richards" wrote in message
...
I don't think Scandisk Thorough is worth bothering with at all. It
stresses the hard disk, without really giving you much feedback about what
it found or fixed. A good hard disk drive diagnostic will provide much
more useful information about the state of your drive without significantly
more stress.

You should run it whenever you suspect problem, but if everything seems
OK, I guess about every six months is a reasonable compromise.
--
Jeff Richards
----------------------------------------

"Aster" wrote in message
...
snip
As I told, defragging works and I managed to defrag disk from Safe mode.
Also: does is make sense run Thorough Scandisk test if Standard test is
OK?


-----------

Is there good hard disk diagnostic utility without stressing harddrive?

  #99  
Old January 12th 10, 07:48 PM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
MEB[_17_]
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 1,830
Default Defrag problems

On 01/12/2010 06:21 AM, Aster wrote:

"MEB" wrote in message
...
On 01/08/2010 06:42 AM, Aster wrote:

"Bill Blanton" wrote in message
...
On 1/6/2010 05:47, Aster wrote:


Also, according to microsoft, the volume must have at least 15 percent
free space for Defrag to completely and adequately defragment it.
Defrag
uses this space as a sorting area for file fragments. If a volume has
less than 15 percent free space, Defrag only partially defragments it.
So, if my 20Gb hard drive has only 1.53Gb free space and I have
performed defrag, my volume has been just partially defragmented?

If you only have 1.5GB free it's either time to move some data off, or
buy another drive. If you're thinking that defrag is going to speed up
your system considerably, it won't. Far better to look at what
processes are running in the background.

It was mentioned that Scandisk reported bad clusters. In that case
stay away from any defrag utility. Defrag is for healthy disks.

---------------

still not clear, has been my volume fully defragged, or just some
partially? Canno check this, since there is no 'Analyze' disk option,
like win XP has.


Uhm, here's what I found in Win9X in similar situations:

1. *IF* I had *disabled virtual memory* and thereby deleted the swap
file upon re-boot before the scandisk/defrag, then yes, during the first
run, though it took even longer. This frees up MORE space, though it can
only be done on computers in which there is sufficient memory and
limited background apps.
The reason is to place the swap in contiguous blocks rather than
scattered around the disk, and the extra time comes from moving all
those files to fill in the now blanked/freed areas. The swap is then
placed at the end of the used file area when re-enabled.
The warning you refer to [15%] comes from the necessity to ensure there
IS available swap space/area sufficient to run "not only"
scandisk/defrag, but also for large and/or numerous applications being
run and being swapped, *particularly* if you have not disabled what you
can for the scandisk/defrag operations [hence why it is recommended to
limit these background applications during the activities].

A. *IF* you have lots of memory, then you can limit the swap to a small
area (or disable it) and *force* Windows to use physical memory instead.

2. *IF* leaving memory control in the hands of Windows during
scandisk/defrag, then expect it will constantly warn about disk changes,
at least until you tell it not to warn you again. Also note:

A. you haven't really defragmented the disk completely/thoroughly [due
to the non-contiguous swap areas];

1. this is fine for normal usage, however, it is good idea to do a
*thorough* scandisk and defrag on your disk(s) "every once in awhile"
[depending upon your usage and/or needs].

3. Remember, many application's files may expand during usage so the
defrag actually only lasts for a relatively short time period as these
are moved around the disk to free areas, leaving small previously
claimed "file" areas as freed, which may be filled in with smaller files
from other applications or otherwise (as in parts of files or similar)
starting the fragmentation process again.

4. *IF* installing and un-installing are part of your normal usage,
EXPECT the disk to be severely fragmented. The systems being used in
this fashion REQUIRE scandisk and defrag or other disk maintenance tools
be used more frequently.

--
MEB


How to disable virtual memory?

Aster


Control Panel - System - Performance -

Remember you MUST have sufficient memory installed AND you need to stop
as many startup programs, power management, screen savers, etc., as
possible to ensure there is no disk activity other than from
scandisk/defrag, and which would require swap access. Alternatively,
*IF* you have sufficient physical memory, then you could create a ram
drive and place a small manually configured swap area there.
I always use sysinternals' AUTORUNS to disable whatever programs from
starting. NOTE though, that you must be careful about what you disable
as a large percentage of the shown are part of the required system
internal [hence sysinternals] workings and disabling them can stop
Windows from loading at all.

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.org/ref/windows-main.htm
Windows Info, Diagnostics, Security, Networking
http://peoplescounsel.org
The "real world" of Law, Justice, and Government
___---
  #100  
Old January 12th 10, 07:48 PM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
MEB[_17_]
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 1,830
Default Defrag problems

On 01/12/2010 06:21 AM, Aster wrote:

"MEB" wrote in message
...
On 01/08/2010 06:42 AM, Aster wrote:

"Bill Blanton" wrote in message
...
On 1/6/2010 05:47, Aster wrote:


Also, according to microsoft, the volume must have at least 15 percent
free space for Defrag to completely and adequately defragment it.
Defrag
uses this space as a sorting area for file fragments. If a volume has
less than 15 percent free space, Defrag only partially defragments it.
So, if my 20Gb hard drive has only 1.53Gb free space and I have
performed defrag, my volume has been just partially defragmented?

If you only have 1.5GB free it's either time to move some data off, or
buy another drive. If you're thinking that defrag is going to speed up
your system considerably, it won't. Far better to look at what
processes are running in the background.

It was mentioned that Scandisk reported bad clusters. In that case
stay away from any defrag utility. Defrag is for healthy disks.

---------------

still not clear, has been my volume fully defragged, or just some
partially? Canno check this, since there is no 'Analyze' disk option,
like win XP has.


Uhm, here's what I found in Win9X in similar situations:

1. *IF* I had *disabled virtual memory* and thereby deleted the swap
file upon re-boot before the scandisk/defrag, then yes, during the first
run, though it took even longer. This frees up MORE space, though it can
only be done on computers in which there is sufficient memory and
limited background apps.
The reason is to place the swap in contiguous blocks rather than
scattered around the disk, and the extra time comes from moving all
those files to fill in the now blanked/freed areas. The swap is then
placed at the end of the used file area when re-enabled.
The warning you refer to [15%] comes from the necessity to ensure there
IS available swap space/area sufficient to run "not only"
scandisk/defrag, but also for large and/or numerous applications being
run and being swapped, *particularly* if you have not disabled what you
can for the scandisk/defrag operations [hence why it is recommended to
limit these background applications during the activities].

A. *IF* you have lots of memory, then you can limit the swap to a small
area (or disable it) and *force* Windows to use physical memory instead.

2. *IF* leaving memory control in the hands of Windows during
scandisk/defrag, then expect it will constantly warn about disk changes,
at least until you tell it not to warn you again. Also note:

A. you haven't really defragmented the disk completely/thoroughly [due
to the non-contiguous swap areas];

1. this is fine for normal usage, however, it is good idea to do a
*thorough* scandisk and defrag on your disk(s) "every once in awhile"
[depending upon your usage and/or needs].

3. Remember, many application's files may expand during usage so the
defrag actually only lasts for a relatively short time period as these
are moved around the disk to free areas, leaving small previously
claimed "file" areas as freed, which may be filled in with smaller files
from other applications or otherwise (as in parts of files or similar)
starting the fragmentation process again.

4. *IF* installing and un-installing are part of your normal usage,
EXPECT the disk to be severely fragmented. The systems being used in
this fashion REQUIRE scandisk and defrag or other disk maintenance tools
be used more frequently.

--
MEB


How to disable virtual memory?

Aster


Control Panel - System - Performance -

Remember you MUST have sufficient memory installed AND you need to stop
as many startup programs, power management, screen savers, etc., as
possible to ensure there is no disk activity other than from
scandisk/defrag, and which would require swap access. Alternatively,
*IF* you have sufficient physical memory, then you could create a ram
drive and place a small manually configured swap area there.
I always use sysinternals' AUTORUNS to disable whatever programs from
starting. NOTE though, that you must be careful about what you disable
as a large percentage of the shown are part of the required system
internal [hence sysinternals] workings and disabling them can stop
Windows from loading at all.

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.org/ref/windows-main.htm
Windows Info, Diagnostics, Security, Networking
http://peoplescounsel.org
The "real world" of Law, Justice, and Government
___---
 




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