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  #21  
Old October 4th 04, 12:06 AM
JAD
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Mike......S^^U already its your opinion and if you had experienced
multiple point infection or the virus itself disabling system restore
you would understand........I know ALL about it and to rely on it
solely would mean you CLEARLY don't understand me.




"Mike M" wrote in message
...
You clearly still don't understand otherwise you wouldn't have

posted as
you have. Using system restore it is possible to restore to a clean
uninfected state by restoring to a checkpoint created before

infection.
By flushing the restore folder prior to any attempt to cleanse a

system
such an option is lost.
--
Mike Maltby MS-MVP [2001-2005]



JAD wrote:

thanks but it was not necessary


restoring to an infected state, for me, serves no purpose. I have
never had the displeasure of having a system screwed up because of
virus removal since I was on the 12 step 'Rid myself of norton"
therapy years ago. AFA spyware and such, it rarely infects my

machines
and has never been a big problem. when it does, hijackthis is the
ultimate in removal. (and should be used by some one who

understands
the difference between 'BACK up' and system restore. ;^)




  #22  
Old October 4th 04, 12:26 AM
Mike M
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I'm sorry but from your continued posts it is clear to me at least that
you don't seem to have a clue about the uses of system restore and what it
can and cannot do. Until you actually do learn about system restore I
would strongly advise you to keep your incorrect and faulty logic to
yourself.
--
Mike Maltby MS-MVP



JAD wrote:

Mike......S^^U already its your opinion and if you had experienced
multiple point infection or the virus itself disabling system restore
you would understand........I know ALL about it and to rely on it
solely would mean you CLEARLY don't understand me.


  #23  
Old October 4th 04, 12:32 AM
JAD
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

last word

"Mike M" wrote in message
...
I'm sorry but from your continued posts it is clear to me at least

that
you don't seem to have a clue about the uses of system restore and

what it
can and cannot do. Until you actually do learn about system restore

I
would strongly advise you to keep your incorrect and faulty logic to
yourself.
--
Mike Maltby MS-MVP



JAD wrote:

Mike......S^^U already its your opinion and if you had

experienced
multiple point infection or the virus itself disabling system

restore
you would understand........I know ALL about it and to rely on it
solely would mean you CLEARLY don't understand me.




  #24  
Old October 4th 04, 01:39 AM
Glenn
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I have a problem with him continuing to want to go back to an "infected
state".

System restore has saved my bacon many times but I naturally go back far
enough to be ahead of the infection.

Incidentally, MS-MVP, I have the cd sent by micro$soft for sp2 lying in its
sheath beside my machine because I still hear too many horror stories. I'm
a coward.

Glenn
"Mike M" wrote in message
...
You clearly still don't understand otherwise you wouldn't have posted as
you have. Using system restore it is possible to restore to a clean
uninfected state by restoring to a checkpoint created before infection.
By flushing the restore folder prior to any attempt to cleanse a system
such an option is lost.
--
Mike Maltby MS-MVP [2001-2005]



JAD wrote:

thanks but it was not necessary


restoring to an infected state, for me, serves no purpose. I have
never had the displeasure of having a system screwed up because of
virus removal since I was on the 12 step 'Rid myself of norton"
therapy years ago. AFA spyware and such, it rarely infects my machines
and has never been a big problem. when it does, hijackthis is the
ultimate in removal. (and should be used by some one who understands
the difference between 'BACK up' and system restore. ;^)




  #25  
Old October 4th 04, 01:59 AM
Heather
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote......
"restoring to an infected state, for me, serves no purpose"
Unquote....

You STILL don't get it!!! And this is MY *last word* on the subject.

I have no patience with self-styled 'experts' who refuse to try and
understand. So go back to your other groups and continue to disseminate
faulty information.

HF

"JAD" wrote in message
...
thanks but it was not necessary


restoring to an infected state, for me, serves no purpose. I have
never had the displeasure of having a system screwed up because of
virus removal since I was on the 12 step 'Rid myself of norton"
therapy years ago. AFA spyware and such, it rarely infects my machines
and has never been a big problem. when it does, hijackthis is the
ultimate in removal. (and should be used by some one who understands
the difference between 'BACK up' and system restore. ;^)


"Heather" wrote in message
...
JAD.......

You are not understanding what Mike is saying to you......and any

others
that follow your line of thinking. I will admit it took me a while

to *get
it*, but perhaps I can put it in simpler English for you. Make that
*Canadian English* (G).

If you disable and clear out the System Restore BEFORE getting rid

of the
offending object, you have also thrown away any chance of restoring

your
computer, should you happen to screw something up!!! You will have

NO
restore points to go back to.

In other words, you CAN restore to a point BEFORE you got infected

and you
will NOT be restoring the virus/trojan/whatever to your computer.

Is this any clearer??

And Mike......I hope I got that across right.....or for that matter,

I hope
I got it right, grin!!

It is a hard concept for people to get their minds around.......all

they are
thinking is *get rid of this blasted malware*!!

Cheers and off for supper......Heather

"JAD" wrote in message
...
"personally-I would" this would mean its my opinion...I

wouldn't
you can



"Mike M" wrote in message
...
But if not yourself a user may well want to restore to an

uninfected
checkpoint created prior to any infection. By flushing the

restore
archive as a first action one removes such action from ones

armoury
of
tools.
--
Mike Maltby MS-MVP



JAD wrote:

either way works.......fix - disable - re-enable -
disable -
fix - re-enable

not want to restore to an infected restore point









  #26  
Old October 4th 04, 03:09 AM
JAD
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

if you want to rely on system restore go ahead. you are worried about
it when you have to clean your system, this would mean you have no
'BACK UP'. Self styled indeed, system restore works and can get you
out of a jam, no doubt, but you are referring to the ideal situation.
This is rarely the case. Tell me, how does your AV work after a system
restore? Have you tried to reinstall it on a restored/infected
machine? There is absolutely nothing wrong with this information. And
we are talking ME here, not XP. System restore, that's all you get, is
the system restored, not your software.and since most antivirus
software rely on definitions dates, when you go back you have a 50/50
chance of having a stable system and a running anti virus. You think
that you are SAFE because you went back to before the infection, again
knowing when you were infected is another luxury not everybody has.
You have never seen the whole restore/ CPY folder contaminated?
Leaving you nothing, I suppose you have the settings for size to max.
ANOTHER luxury not everybody has, nor would they want. System restore
is the LAST RESORT. You should be reaching for your backup. Backup is
a luxury/? then your data is not important anyway...format and
re-install......

"Heather" wrote in message
...
Quote......
"restoring to an infected state, for me, serves no purpose"
Unquote....

You STILL don't get it!!! And this is MY *last word* on the

subject.

I have no patience with self-styled 'experts' who refuse to try and
understand. So go back to your other groups and continue to

disseminate
faulty information.

HF

"JAD" wrote in message
...
thanks but it was not necessary


restoring to an infected state, for me, serves no purpose. I have
never had the displeasure of having a system screwed up because of
virus removal since I was on the 12 step 'Rid myself of norton"
therapy years ago. AFA spyware and such, it rarely infects my

machines
and has never been a big problem. when it does, hijackthis is the
ultimate in removal. (and should be used by some one who

understands
the difference between 'BACK up' and system restore. ;^)


"Heather" wrote in message
...
JAD.......

You are not understanding what Mike is saying to you......and

any
others
that follow your line of thinking. I will admit it took me a

while
to *get
it*, but perhaps I can put it in simpler English for you. Make

that
*Canadian English* (G).

If you disable and clear out the System Restore BEFORE getting

rid
of the
offending object, you have also thrown away any chance of

restoring
your
computer, should you happen to screw something up!!! You will

have
NO
restore points to go back to.

In other words, you CAN restore to a point BEFORE you got

infected
and you
will NOT be restoring the virus/trojan/whatever to your

computer.

Is this any clearer??

And Mike......I hope I got that across right.....or for that

matter,
I hope
I got it right, grin!!

It is a hard concept for people to get their minds

around.......all
they are
thinking is *get rid of this blasted malware*!!

Cheers and off for supper......Heather

"JAD" wrote in message
...
"personally-I would" this would mean its my opinion...I

wouldn't
you can



"Mike M" wrote in message
...
But if not yourself a user may well want to restore to an

uninfected
checkpoint created prior to any infection. By flushing the

restore
archive as a first action one removes such action from ones

armoury
of
tools.
--
Mike Maltby MS-MVP



JAD wrote:

either way works.......fix - disable - re-enable -
disable -
fix - re-enable

not want to restore to an infected restore point











  #27  
Old October 4th 04, 04:27 AM
Heather
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Never make assumptions!! I have a lot of backups. All my software programs
are backed up.....and I have all the original CD's as well.

But most importantly, I don't get flippin' viruses because I practice *safe
hex* and do not rely on an antivirus program to stop them. Oh yes.....I
have EZ Trust antivirus and Zone Alarm Pro on here, plus the usual spyware
proggies. And all up to date.

See inline.....altho I don't know why I am bothering other than you are so
d***brained that you probably won't *get it*.

"JAD" wrote in message
...
if you want to rely on system restore go ahead. you are worried about
it when you have to clean your system, this would mean you have no
'BACK UP'. Self styled indeed, system restore works and can get you
out of a jam, no doubt, but you are referring to the ideal situation.
This is rarely the case. Tell me, how does your AV work after a system
restore?


My antivirus works just fine after a System Restore......why wouldn't it?
Remember what I said above.......I practice safe hex and the last virus I
got was Happy99 I believe......yes, 1999, 5 or 6 years ago when Vecna
released that one. Due to using that blasted Norton as an AV.

Have you tried to reinstall it on a restored/infected
machine?


See above.....re safe hex....answer is NO.

You have never seen the whole restore/ CPY folder contaminated?
Leaving you nothing, I suppose you have the settings for size to max.


NO......I repeat, I don't get viruses. Settings are not at max......if you
are referring to the SR size.

System restore is the LAST RESORT. You should be reaching for your backup.

Backup is a luxury/? then your data is not important anyway...format and
re-install......

Wrong again. I use System Restore BEFORE I add a new program or update, in
order to restore my computer to my clean, contented state should they not
agree with it. It is not a backup utility. All my important data is backed
up regularly to CD's.

And as I am a professional genealogist, my data is probably more important
than yours. I don't reformat or reinstall.........for the obvious reason I
have stated continuously. No need to do so.

Do you get it yet? If not, I can give you the website for our antivirus
news group where you can learn how NOT to get viruses. Sounds like you
could do with that.

http://www.claymania.com/reference.html

Read it and learn!! Your ignorance is astounding!! Plus you are beginning
to bore me with your faulty answers.

Heather.......aka *Auntie Virus*



"Heather" wrote in message
...
Quote......
"restoring to an infected state, for me, serves no purpose"
Unquote....

You STILL don't get it!!! And this is MY *last word* on the

subject.

I have no patience with self-styled 'experts' who refuse to try and
understand. So go back to your other groups and continue to

disseminate
faulty information.

HF

"JAD" wrote in message
...
thanks but it was not necessary


restoring to an infected state, for me, serves no purpose. I have
never had the displeasure of having a system screwed up because of
virus removal since I was on the 12 step 'Rid myself of norton"
therapy years ago. AFA spyware and such, it rarely infects my

machines
and has never been a big problem. when it does, hijackthis is the
ultimate in removal. (and should be used by some one who

understands
the difference between 'BACK up' and system restore. ;^)


"Heather" wrote in message
...
JAD.......

You are not understanding what Mike is saying to you......and

any
others
that follow your line of thinking. I will admit it took me a

while
to *get
it*, but perhaps I can put it in simpler English for you. Make

that
*Canadian English* (G).

If you disable and clear out the System Restore BEFORE getting

rid
of the
offending object, you have also thrown away any chance of

restoring
your
computer, should you happen to screw something up!!! You will

have
NO
restore points to go back to.

In other words, you CAN restore to a point BEFORE you got

infected
and you
will NOT be restoring the virus/trojan/whatever to your

computer.

Is this any clearer??

And Mike......I hope I got that across right.....or for that

matter,
I hope
I got it right, grin!!

It is a hard concept for people to get their minds

around.......all
they are
thinking is *get rid of this blasted malware*!!

Cheers and off for supper......Heather

"JAD" wrote in message
...
"personally-I would" this would mean its my opinion...I
wouldn't
you can



"Mike M" wrote in message
...
But if not yourself a user may well want to restore to an
uninfected
checkpoint created prior to any infection. By flushing the
restore
archive as a first action one removes such action from ones
armoury
of
tools.
--
Mike Maltby MS-MVP



JAD wrote:

either way works.......fix - disable - re-enable -
disable -
fix - re-enable

not want to restore to an infected restore point













  #28  
Old October 4th 04, 06:29 AM
Shane
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

System Restore is valuable because backups are rarely made on a daily basis.
Reasonably often on disinfecting the system, some component is found not to
work anymore. If System Restore is still available it may provide the
opportunity to restore to before infection but since the last backup
(assuming one has been made).

There is nothing whatsoever to be gained from disabling System Restore
before scanning/disinfection beyond not getting warnings about infected
files in C:\_Restore. If a user waits until after scanning/disinfection they
can verify that everything else works, then flush the Restore archive.

If something no longer works and System Restore would rectify that
situation, by using it they are almost certainly in no worse a position than
before and can consider another approach forewarned that straight cleaning
will cause the problem they just restored to recover from. Possibly they
would need to re-update their definitions in order to redetect the infection
but, just as with the possibility of unknowingly - ie through ignorance -
restoring an infected file, this can be obviated by the person advising the
disabling of System Restore *before* disinfection, instead advising of these
two potential pitfalls, along with the potential benefit, of disabling
System Restore *after* disinfection and verification of the correct
operation of the computer.

System Restore never spontaneously restores to an earlier checkpoint. Nor do
there appear to be any malwares that in any way manipulate System Restore -
and other than as an exercise there is no point to creating such as, once
you'd done so, you could do so much more that System Restore would be
irrelevent.

The advice repeated ad-nauseum to disable SR before disinfection is as clear
an example of mass hysteria as most of us are likely to see. As advice to
others - and when posted to these groups it should be considered as advice
to all (unless stated to be a purely personal opinion and/or preference) -
it is either based upon ignorance or it depends upon the unspoken belief
that the recipients are incapable of understanding alternative advice, ie
are incapable of learning. Equally there are people who consider all
Americans as ignorant and childlike, but anyone with an open mind can see
that that is unjust. It belongs in the same category of elitist intellectual
laziness as that which has women as inferior to men, blacks as inferior to
whites. Some will have it that anyone at all who gets infected by malware is
incapable of learning.


Shane


"JAD" wrote in message
...
if you want to rely on system restore go ahead. you are worried about
it when you have to clean your system, this would mean you have no
'BACK UP'. Self styled indeed, system restore works and can get you
out of a jam, no doubt, but you are referring to the ideal situation.
This is rarely the case. Tell me, how does your AV work after a system
restore? Have you tried to reinstall it on a restored/infected
machine? There is absolutely nothing wrong with this information. And
we are talking ME here, not XP. System restore, that's all you get, is
the system restored, not your software.and since most antivirus
software rely on definitions dates, when you go back you have a 50/50
chance of having a stable system and a running anti virus. You think
that you are SAFE because you went back to before the infection, again
knowing when you were infected is another luxury not everybody has.
You have never seen the whole restore/ CPY folder contaminated?
Leaving you nothing, I suppose you have the settings for size to max.
ANOTHER luxury not everybody has, nor would they want. System restore
is the LAST RESORT. You should be reaching for your backup. Backup is
a luxury/? then your data is not important anyway...format and
re-install......

"Heather" wrote in message
...
Quote......
"restoring to an infected state, for me, serves no purpose"
Unquote....

You STILL don't get it!!! And this is MY *last word* on the

subject.

I have no patience with self-styled 'experts' who refuse to try and
understand. So go back to your other groups and continue to

disseminate
faulty information.

HF

"JAD" wrote in message
...
thanks but it was not necessary


restoring to an infected state, for me, serves no purpose. I have
never had the displeasure of having a system screwed up because of
virus removal since I was on the 12 step 'Rid myself of norton"
therapy years ago. AFA spyware and such, it rarely infects my

machines
and has never been a big problem. when it does, hijackthis is the
ultimate in removal. (and should be used by some one who

understands
the difference between 'BACK up' and system restore. ;^)


"Heather" wrote in message
...
JAD.......

You are not understanding what Mike is saying to you......and

any
others
that follow your line of thinking. I will admit it took me a

while
to *get
it*, but perhaps I can put it in simpler English for you. Make

that
*Canadian English* (G).

If you disable and clear out the System Restore BEFORE getting

rid
of the
offending object, you have also thrown away any chance of

restoring
your
computer, should you happen to screw something up!!! You will

have
NO
restore points to go back to.

In other words, you CAN restore to a point BEFORE you got

infected
and you
will NOT be restoring the virus/trojan/whatever to your

computer.

Is this any clearer??

And Mike......I hope I got that across right.....or for that

matter,
I hope
I got it right, grin!!

It is a hard concept for people to get their minds

around.......all
they are
thinking is *get rid of this blasted malware*!!

Cheers and off for supper......Heather

"JAD" wrote in message
...
"personally-I would" this would mean its my opinion...I
wouldn't
you can



"Mike M" wrote in message
...
But if not yourself a user may well want to restore to an
uninfected
checkpoint created prior to any infection. By flushing the
restore
archive as a first action one removes such action from ones
armoury
of
tools.
--
Mike Maltby MS-MVP



JAD wrote:

either way works.......fix - disable - re-enable -
disable -
fix - re-enable

not want to restore to an infected restore point













  #29  
Old October 4th 04, 06:41 AM
Noel Paton
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Figgs
Your AV, and mine work well after a System Restore for one very good
reason - it's NOT Norton! - I suspect that JAD is using the 'trasher of
systems' that Symantec continue to peddle as being fit-for-use in ME.

--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2005, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.btinternet.com/~winnoel/millsrpch.htm
http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to NG's

"Heather" wrote in message
...
snip
"JAD" wrote in message
...

snip
Tell me, how does your AV work after a system
restore?


My antivirus works just fine after a System Restore......why wouldn't it?
Remember what I said above.......I practice safe hex and the last virus I
got was Happy99 I believe......yes, 1999, 5 or 6 years ago when Vecna
released that one. Due to using that blasted Norton as an AV.



  #30  
Old October 4th 04, 07:00 AM
Shane
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quite, Noel.

And yet - on an unrepresentative note, when I was using NAV I didn't have
problems as a consequence of running SR.

Meanwhile, bear in mind that the advice to disable SR before a scan is given
by most of the AV companies.


Shane


"Noel Paton" wrote in message
...
Figgs
Your AV, and mine work well after a System Restore for one very good
reason - it's NOT Norton! - I suspect that JAD is using the 'trasher of
systems' that Symantec continue to peddle as being fit-for-use in ME.

--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2005, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.btinternet.com/~winnoel/millsrpch.htm
http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to NG's

"Heather" wrote in message
...
snip
"JAD" wrote in message
...

snip
Tell me, how does your AV work after a system
restore?


My antivirus works just fine after a System Restore......why wouldn't

it?
Remember what I said above.......I practice safe hex and the last virus

I
got was Happy99 I believe......yes, 1999, 5 or 6 years ago when Vecna
released that one. Due to using that blasted Norton as an AV.





 




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