If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
Moving 80 gigs from one spot on a USB drive to another spot on the same drivee
Hot-Text wrote:
Are C: & D: on the same hard drive? YES I see. OK. Now I'm thinking, the way they got around the problem was -- the NTLDR actually is booting the Root partition which is inside the 8 GB limit. Then the Win98 partition is somehow loaded/run from there, even though it is much beyond the 8 GB barrier. That's probably it. There's no real need to test it, Hot-Text. I don't want anything to go wrong! -- Thanks or Good Luck, There may be humor in this post, and, Naturally, you will not sue, Should things get worse after this, PCR |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
Moving 80 gigs from one spot on a USB drive to another spot on the same drivee
On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 01:30:19 -0400, "PCR" wrote:
mm wrote: On Thu, 28 Oct 2010 18:11:52 -0400, "PCR" wrote: Timothy Daniels wrote: "PCR" wrote: [.......] An Extended Partition is itself actually a non-bootable Primary Partition which is a container for multiple Logical Partitions.... Perhaps "non-booting" would be a better term than "non-bootable" because an OS within a logical drive inside an Extended Partition can be booted using the boot loader (e.g. ntldr for WinNT/2K/XP) that can be in the Boot Sector of any one of the Primary Partitions. IOW, in WinXP, one can have the MBR of the drive with the highest boot priority (the "boot drive") pass control to the Primary Partition marked "active" on that drive, and the boot.ini boot menu in that active partition can point to an OS residing in ANY partition - including a logical drive within the Extended Partition - and boot load that OS. I expect that the same flexibility exists for WinVista and Win7. The restriction imposed on OSes residing on logical drives within Extended Partitions is that their boot loader must be on one of the Primary Partitions. The implication of this is that an OS clone can reside anywhere in the system - on any partition (Primary or Extended) and on any enabled internal hard drive - and it can be booted to running status without an intermediate "restoration" step needed for OS "images". I believe this also includes external eSATA hard drives if the motherboard has an eSATA controller. *TimDaniels* I didn't want to risk the danger of XP/Vista/Win7-irradiation to learn all that, but it does sound magical indeed. I don't see that mm mentioned his OS. I was only concerned about efficient ways to copy files. The question of how to boot occurs to me at times, but my head starts to spin and I have to lie down. Something's gone wrong! The hard drive is supposed to spin -- not your head! Would that work for a volume that is Win98 too? (I believe I've read a Win98 OS must begin within the first 8 GB of a hard drive to boot, which may be a consideration.) Win98 definitely had more rules than XP, but when I lay down, they all drained out of my head via my ears. Uh-huh. Could be they changed the rules, & the NTLDR method may allow it now. Hot-text is running a test. In the meantime, look under your cot to see what's under there. Should mm decide to do it that way -- it could be best for you to stick around! Currently no computer I have can boot from USB. I was a couple weeks ago repairing an 18-month old netbook that could, and it was very convenient, since it had no CD drive or floppy drive. That would be convenient, then; yeah. So -- why do you want another slot for a Primary Partition? I was presuming you wanted a partition that would boot. No, I just wanted storage, for a disk-image iirc. This thread started 17 days ago, and I'm not sure anymore. If I weren't planning to move to another computer with a new bigger hdd, I might get a bigger HDD for this box, but when arranged right I've got enough room for a few months if necessary. Thanks |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
Moving 80 gigs from one spot on a USB drive to another spot on the same drivee
LOOL it's a old PC with a 128 RAM
with a 30 GB 16 Head Hard Drive.. A Start PC the one 98 CD have all the Drive on; so I can get network and put I Hardware drive before I move the Hard Drive.. to a newer PC "PCR" wrote in message ... Hot-Text wrote: Are C: & D: on the same hard drive? YES I see. OK. Now I'm thinking, the way they got around the problem was -- the NTLDR actually is booting the Root partition which is inside the 8 GB limit. True But I can do Hidden FAT32 LBA 9 GB Do a FAT32 10 GB for Root That will put the ROOT pass 9 GB A install 98 will put Windows pass 19 GB I start on it at 1:PM 10/29/2010 Then the Win98 partition is somehow loaded/run from there, even though it is much beyond the 8 GB barrier. That's probably it. There's no real need to test it, Hot-Text. I don't want anything to go wrong! -- Thanks or Good Luck, There may be humor in this post, and, Naturally, you will not sue, Should things get worse after this, PCR |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
Moving 80 gigs from one spot on a USB drive to another spot on the same drivee
Hot-Text wrote:
LOOL it's a old PC with a 128 RAM with a 30 GB 16 Head Hard Drive.. A Start PC the one 98 CD have all the Drive on; so I can get network and put I Hardware drive before I move the Hard Drive.. to a newer PC I see. Looks like you know what you're doing, then. OK. So long as it isn't your main computer. Very good. "PCR" wrote in message ... Hot-Text wrote: Are C: & D: on the same hard drive? YES I see. OK. Now I'm thinking, the way they got around the problem was -- the NTLDR actually is booting the Root partition which is inside the 8 GB limit. True But I can do Hidden FAT32 LBA 9 GB Do a FAT32 10 GB for Root That will put the ROOT pass 9 GB A install 98 will put Windows pass 19 GB So, that gets both the Root and the Win98 partition to start past the 8 GB point. I start on it at 1:PM 10/29/2010 OK, let us know. Then the Win98 partition is somehow loaded/run from there, even though it is much beyond the 8 GB barrier. That's probably it. There's no real need to test it, Hot-Text. I don't want anything to go wrong! ....snip -- Thanks or Good Luck, There may be humor in this post, and, Naturally, you will not sue, Should things get worse after this, PCR |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
Moving 80 gigs from one spot on a USB drive to another spot on the same drivee
mm wrote:
On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 01:30:19 -0400, "PCR" wrote: mm wrote: On Thu, 28 Oct 2010 18:11:52 -0400, "PCR" wrote: Timothy Daniels wrote: "PCR" wrote: [.......] An Extended Partition is itself actually a non-bootable Primary Partition which is a container for multiple Logical Partitions.... Perhaps "non-booting" would be a better term than "non-bootable" because an OS within a logical drive inside an Extended Partition can be booted using the boot loader (e.g. ntldr for WinNT/2K/XP) that can be in the Boot Sector of any one of the Primary Partitions. IOW, in WinXP, one can have the MBR of the drive with the highest boot priority (the "boot drive") pass control to the Primary Partition marked "active" on that drive, and the boot.ini boot menu in that active partition can point to an OS residing in ANY partition - including a logical drive within the Extended Partition - and boot load that OS. I expect that the same flexibility exists for WinVista and Win7. The restriction imposed on OSes residing on logical drives within Extended Partitions is that their boot loader must be on one of the Primary Partitions. The implication of this is that an OS clone can reside anywhere in the system - on any partition (Primary or Extended) and on any enabled internal hard drive - and it can be booted to running status without an intermediate "restoration" step needed for OS "images". I believe this also includes external eSATA hard drives if the motherboard has an eSATA controller. *TimDaniels* I didn't want to risk the danger of XP/Vista/Win7-irradiation to learn all that, but it does sound magical indeed. I don't see that mm mentioned his OS. I was only concerned about efficient ways to copy files. The question of how to boot occurs to me at times, but my head starts to spin and I have to lie down. Something's gone wrong! The hard drive is supposed to spin -- not your head! Would that work for a volume that is Win98 too? (I believe I've read a Win98 OS must begin within the first 8 GB of a hard drive to boot, which may be a consideration.) Win98 definitely had more rules than XP, but when I lay down, they all drained out of my head via my ears. Uh-huh. Could be they changed the rules, & the NTLDR method may allow it now. Hot-text is running a test. In the meantime, look under your cot to see what's under there. Should mm decide to do it that way -- it could be best for you to stick around! Currently no computer I have can boot from USB. I was a couple weeks ago repairing an 18-month old netbook that could, and it was very convenient, since it had no CD drive or floppy drive. That would be convenient, then; yeah. So -- why do you want another slot for a Primary Partition? I was presuming you wanted a partition that would boot. No, I just wanted storage, for a disk-image iirc. This thread started 17 days ago, and I'm not sure anymore. I'm not convinced you only wanted storage space or to know how to copy 80 GB fastest. If you stay in this thread -- you're going to have to learn how to boot a new OS, whether it can be within an Extended Partition, & whether it can start beyond 8 GB! If I weren't planning to move to another computer with a new bigger hdd, I might get a bigger HDD for this box, but when arranged right I've got enough room for a few months if necessary. All right. That reminds me I still need to get a new HDD for backup, myself! Thanks You are welcome. -- Thanks or Good Luck, There may be humor in this post, and, Naturally, you will not sue, Should things get worse after this, PCR |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
Moving 80 gigs from one spot on a USB drive to another spot on the same drivee
"PCR" wrote in message
... [...] (I believe I've read a Win98 OS must begin within the first 8 GB of a hard drive to boot, which may be a consideration.) I never had 98 installed on a disk greater than 1.2 Gigs, and so never encountered this problem. Perhaps because the bootstrap has to locate and load io.sys *before* the OS's filesystem subsystem is loaded? IOW io.sys must be reachable by the bootstrap program. NT uses metadata so that the loader can be located in a fault tolerant manner. If I'm not mistaken, this is all still16 bit real mode code so addressing might be a problem for the larger drives. Hopefully, Hot-Text will give us his results, and *someone* will understand him and translate for the rest of us. ) |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
Moving 80 gigs from one spot on a USB drive to another spot onthe same drivee
On 10/29/2010 20:04, FromTheRafters wrote:
wrote in message ... [...] (I believe I've read a Win98 OS must begin within the first 8 GB of a hard drive to boot, which may be a consideration.) I never had 98 installed on a disk greater than 1.2 Gigs, and so never encountered this problem. Perhaps because the bootstrap has to locate and load io.sys *before* the OS's filesystem subsystem is loaded? IOW io.sys must be reachable by the bootstrap program. And what's reachable, at that point, is determined by whether the system supports the BIOS disk service (LBA) extensions. Starting with 95-SR2 the MBR and boot sector code had the capability to boot beyond the 1024 cyl limit. If your BIOS did not support the extensions the code would fall back to using CHS addressing. NT uses metadata so that the loader can be located in a fault tolerant manner. If I'm not mistaken, this is all still16 bit real mode code so addressing might be a problem for the larger drives. According to http://homepage.ntlworld.com./jonath...ze-limits.html quote Windows NT 2000 was the first release of Windows NT to use the INT 13h extensions throughout its boot process. |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
Moving 80 gigs from one spot on a USB drive to another spot onthe same drivee
On 10/30/2010 11:01 AM, Bill Blanton wrote:
On 10/29/2010 20:04, FromTheRafters wrote: wrote in message ... [...] (I believe I've read a Win98 OS must begin within the first 8 GB of a hard drive to boot, which may be a consideration.) I never had 98 installed on a disk greater than 1.2 Gigs, and so never encountered this problem. Perhaps because the bootstrap has to locate and load io.sys *before* the OS's filesystem subsystem is loaded? IOW io.sys must be reachable by the bootstrap program. And what's reachable, at that point, is determined by whether the system supports the BIOS disk service (LBA) extensions. Starting with 95-SR2 the MBR and boot sector code had the capability to boot beyond the 1024 cyl limit. If your BIOS did not support the extensions the code would fall back to using CHS addressing. It's the old INT 13 limitation, Windows 95 and Windows 98 utilize extended INT 13 functions so they recognize disks larger than 8.4GB. DOS 6.x and earlier versions do not support extended INT 13 functions so they can't use these larger disks, not that it mattered too much as few of the folks using these older DOS versions ever knew about this limitation, during those days such large disk, if they did exist, would have been priced out of reach of average computer users, they would have been mostly used by large corporations, governments and data centers. This limitation became better known and associated with NT4 as it was the flagship business operating system when these larger drives became more common and available to average computer users, but it too, like the earlier DOS versions, did not support extended INT 13 functions so it couldn't really boot on these larger disk while the consumer W9x versions could. John |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
Moving 80 gigs from one spot on a USB drive to another spot on the same drivee
Bill Blanton wrote:
On 10/29/2010 20:04, FromTheRafters wrote: I don't see FromTheRafters in this thread! Why? Can it be he is XP-irradiated? And Daniels too appears to have become invisible after his first post! wrote in message ... [...] (I believe I've read a Win98 OS must begin within the first 8 GB of a hard drive to boot, which may be a consideration.) I never had 98 installed on a disk greater than 1.2 Gigs, and so never encountered this problem. Me too. Perhaps because the bootstrap has to locate and load io.sys *before* the OS's filesystem subsystem is loaded? IOW io.sys must be reachable by the bootstrap program. And what's reachable, at that point, is determined by whether the system supports the BIOS disk service (LBA) extensions. Starting with 95-SR2 the MBR and boot sector code had the capability to boot beyond the 1024 cyl limit. If your BIOS did not support the extensions the code would fall back to using CHS addressing. That sounds like a reasonable explanation, that the BIOS may not have the reach to load IO.sys. However, wouldn't IO.sys be kept in the XP "boot" partition, which I think has to be the first partition on the hard drive? (I don't really know.) If so, still it might be a problem -- if IO.sys also cannot reach beyond 8 GB. (But I don't know anything about any of this. I wonder whether Daniels answered some of it but has become invisible to me.) NT uses metadata so that the loader can be located in a fault tolerant manner. If I'm not mistaken, this is all still16 bit real mode code so addressing might be a problem for the larger drives. I don't know what metadata is. But I'd wager IO.sys is 16-bit. According to http://homepage.ntlworld.com./jonath...ze-limits.html quote Windows NT 2000 was the first release of Windows NT to use the INT 13h extensions throughout its boot process. That looks like a very educative site, BUT it also says... ==quote== DOS-Windows: DOS-Windows 95 OEM Service Release 2 was the first operating system to use the INT 13h extensions in all parts of its boot process. ==eoq=== -- Thanks or Good Luck, There may be humor in this post, and, Naturally, you will not sue, Should things get worse after this, PCR |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
Moving 80 gigs from one spot on a USB drive to another spot on the same drivee
"PCR" wrote in message
... I don't see FromTheRafters in this thread! Why? Can it be he is XP-irradiated? I'm using disappearing ink, you have to be quick and read fast. ) |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Moving Hard Drive to new PC (Windows 98SE) | musicmaakr | General | 62 | April 21st 09 12:15 AM |
Moving Hard Drive to new PC (Windows 98SE) | musicmaakr | General | 0 | April 14th 09 06:52 PM |
Wireless hot spot config | skora | Networking | 2 | January 4th 06 11:25 PM |
Moving applications to d: drive! | Richard | Software & Applications | 0 | September 19th 04 04:20 PM |
Moving Folders to another Drive | Dave | General | 3 | August 20th 04 02:17 AM |