If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
98 install problem
Ron Thank you. Over the weekend I was browsing other postings and was led to
your website and your upgrade instructions. Here is what I did: I renamed the win.com and winver.exe files. This allowed me to get past the SU0168 message. Then I got the message that a directory in windows called desktop was present and had to be moved or renamed. I did that and the install proceeded. I rejected the intstall to Windows.000 and selected the windows directory. Everything ran without error until windows tried to do its first restart. Then I experienced the same hang up I described earlier as my original problem. Once again if I get into DOS and rename the setupx.dll and restart, it avoids the restart hangup, but as the windows install resumes I get more errors than I can count, many related to setupx.dll file not being present. Today I plan to download DocMemory and run it since I haven't followed up on that yet. One other item: The instructions that came from Gateway when I purchased my machine say that if I need to reinstall 98 to do it directly from the win98 CD, no floppy involved. When I do that ,the option comes up to boot either from hard drive or CD and I choose CD. I've tried it using a floppy startup disk as well but seems like I end up in the same place either way. "Ron Badour" wrote: You get that message because you are using an OEM version that is designed to be installed to a drive without a Windows operating system. If you want to try it, there is a way around the error message: Information on reinstalling or upgrading with an OEM CD: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour/html/upgrade.html -- Regards Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98 Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour Knowledge Base Info: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo "mvgberg" wrote in message ... Ben, I gave that a try, but I got a message that I must use a 98 Upgrade rather than a new install. There was no option to override the message so that is as far as I got. I don't want to belabor this issue, so I think I might try to wipe the hard drive and start from scratch if that makes any sense. "Ben Myers" wrote: If you have plenty of disk space, start the computer with a boot floppy and try renaming the "c:\windows\system" directory. rename c:\windows\system sysbak This should allow Windows setup to install a fresh set of system files. Also, if you are reasonably sure there are no disk or file system problems, you can skip Scandisk by running setup with the "/is" switch. setup /is Ben "mvgberg" wrote in message ... Sorry I didn't get back sooner, but had some snow and ice to deal with. I downloaded a hard disk diagnostic for my drive from western digital and it found no errors. I haven't tried the memory check yet. Also the attempt to repair IE failed with 'W95INF32.DLL ThunkConnect32 failure'. My last install attempt ran smoothly until it tried to do a restart, then it hung. I renamed the setupx.dll file and restarted the install which then continued, but generated numerous errors because it could not open the setupx.dll file, as well as some other errors unrelated to the setupx file. Seems like I can't get windows to start with the setupx file and when I rename it to get windows running it needs to use it. And maybe the setupx file doesn't have anything to do with it, but it sure seems like it. Anyway I'll keep trying and thank you for your time and help to this point. If you have any other suggestions send them my way. "Ben Myers" wrote: If you can get the computer started in normal or safe mode, click "Start,", "Run", type or paste one of the following into the "Open" box and click "OK". Then select "Repair Internet Explorer" and click "OK". Please note that these commands are case-sensitive. RUNDLL32 SETUPWBV,IE5Maintenance RUNDLL32 SETUPWBV,IE6Maintenance Ben "mvgberg" wrote in message news Ben/Jeff, Ben's suggestion did allow the install to continue without the error, thank you, however after files were copied, the computer restart failed pretty much the same as what I experienced on my original boot up problem. I never did resolve it and thought maybe a reinstall of windows might do the trick. Original problem - when I would start up the computer either normally or try safe mode it would hang on the windows 98 banner page. The error message was MSGSRV32 performed illegal operation and the details said general protection fault in module setupx.dll. I originally extracted a new setupx.dll from the windows cab file to no avail. When I renamed setupx.dll I was able to start up in safe mode. If I shut down in safe mode and then tried a normal restart (the setupx.dll still renamed) windows would come up ( with a few errors along the way) and some applications would work, like windows explorer and word, but not internet explorer. Jeff, when you reference doing a thorough disk check what utility would you suggest, whatever disks checks made by scan disk and before the install found no errors. Ben Myers" wrote: Type "rename c:\windows\powerpnt.ini powerpnt.bak" at the C:\ prompt. Then try the install again. Ben "mvgberg" wrote in message ... Trying to reinstall windows 98 on gateway desktop currently having bootup problems with existing installed 98. everything seems fine until get to "sit back and relax while windows installs". before I have time to relax Generic Installer Error Message SU99405 UPDATEInis = processing error. (0x195). pops up. When click on OK back to DOS prompt and that is it. Thanks for any help. |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
98 install problem
Downloaded DocMemory 3.1 beta and ran 10 loops. No errors. Guess I am a bit
hesitant to reformat the hard drive and try another install, but maybe that is the next option. "mvgberg" wrote: Ron Thank you. Over the weekend I was browsing other postings and was led to your website and your upgrade instructions. Here is what I did: I renamed the win.com and winver.exe files. This allowed me to get past the SU0168 message. Then I got the message that a directory in windows called desktop was present and had to be moved or renamed. I did that and the install proceeded. I rejected the intstall to Windows.000 and selected the windows directory. Everything ran without error until windows tried to do its first restart. Then I experienced the same hang up I described earlier as my original problem. Once again if I get into DOS and rename the setupx.dll and restart, it avoids the restart hangup, but as the windows install resumes I get more errors than I can count, many related to setupx.dll file not being present. Today I plan to download DocMemory and run it since I haven't followed up on that yet. One other item: The instructions that came from Gateway when I purchased my machine say that if I need to reinstall 98 to do it directly from the win98 CD, no floppy involved. When I do that ,the option comes up to boot either from hard drive or CD and I choose CD. I've tried it using a floppy startup disk as well but seems like I end up in the same place either way. "Ron Badour" wrote: You get that message because you are using an OEM version that is designed to be installed to a drive without a Windows operating system. If you want to try it, there is a way around the error message: Information on reinstalling or upgrading with an OEM CD: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour/html/upgrade.html -- Regards Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98 Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour Knowledge Base Info: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo "mvgberg" wrote in message ... Ben, I gave that a try, but I got a message that I must use a 98 Upgrade rather than a new install. There was no option to override the message so that is as far as I got. I don't want to belabor this issue, so I think I might try to wipe the hard drive and start from scratch if that makes any sense. "Ben Myers" wrote: If you have plenty of disk space, start the computer with a boot floppy and try renaming the "c:\windows\system" directory. rename c:\windows\system sysbak This should allow Windows setup to install a fresh set of system files. Also, if you are reasonably sure there are no disk or file system problems, you can skip Scandisk by running setup with the "/is" switch. setup /is Ben "mvgberg" wrote in message ... Sorry I didn't get back sooner, but had some snow and ice to deal with. I downloaded a hard disk diagnostic for my drive from western digital and it found no errors. I haven't tried the memory check yet. Also the attempt to repair IE failed with 'W95INF32.DLL ThunkConnect32 failure'. My last install attempt ran smoothly until it tried to do a restart, then it hung. I renamed the setupx.dll file and restarted the install which then continued, but generated numerous errors because it could not open the setupx.dll file, as well as some other errors unrelated to the setupx file. Seems like I can't get windows to start with the setupx file and when I rename it to get windows running it needs to use it. And maybe the setupx file doesn't have anything to do with it, but it sure seems like it. Anyway I'll keep trying and thank you for your time and help to this point. If you have any other suggestions send them my way. "Ben Myers" wrote: If you can get the computer started in normal or safe mode, click "Start,", "Run", type or paste one of the following into the "Open" box and click "OK". Then select "Repair Internet Explorer" and click "OK". Please note that these commands are case-sensitive. RUNDLL32 SETUPWBV,IE5Maintenance RUNDLL32 SETUPWBV,IE6Maintenance Ben "mvgberg" wrote in message news Ben/Jeff, Ben's suggestion did allow the install to continue without the error, thank you, however after files were copied, the computer restart failed pretty much the same as what I experienced on my original boot up problem. I never did resolve it and thought maybe a reinstall of windows might do the trick. Original problem - when I would start up the computer either normally or try safe mode it would hang on the windows 98 banner page. The error message was MSGSRV32 performed illegal operation and the details said general protection fault in module setupx.dll. I originally extracted a new setupx.dll from the windows cab file to no avail. When I renamed setupx.dll I was able to start up in safe mode. If I shut down in safe mode and then tried a normal restart (the setupx.dll still renamed) windows would come up ( with a few errors along the way) and some applications would work, like windows explorer and word, but not internet explorer. Jeff, when you reference doing a thorough disk check what utility would you suggest, whatever disks checks made by scan disk and before the install found no errors. Ben Myers" wrote: Type "rename c:\windows\powerpnt.ini powerpnt.bak" at the C:\ prompt. Then try the install again. Ben "mvgberg" wrote in message ... Trying to reinstall windows 98 on gateway desktop currently having bootup problems with existing installed 98. everything seems fine until get to "sit back and relax while windows installs". before I have time to relax Generic Installer Error Message SU99405 UPDATEInis = processing error. (0x195). pops up. When click on OK back to DOS prompt and that is it. Thanks for any help. |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
98 install problem
I kind of have a rule of thumb about reinstalling a system. If I cannot fix
a serious problem within an hour, I feel I am just wasting time that could be used to zap the drive and start over. One of the first considerations is if you have data on the drive that must be saved. If there is, you can either slave up the hard drive to the drive in the computer you are posting with and save the data to that hard drive or you could buy a new hard drive and load Windows onto it. Once configured, then copy the info over from the old drive. Of course if everything is backed up, then just format the drive and start over. What I would do at this point is figure out exactly what you want to do, make a plan and then ask for a review of your plan. You might want to start he http://home.satx.rr.com/badour/html/w98_restore.html You apparently have a self booting system CD so you just have to start the computer with the CD in the drive and then follow the on screen prompts. Once the installation calls for a reboot, you will then boot from the HD instead of the CD. -- Regards Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98 Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour Knowledge Base Info: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo "mvgberg" wrote in message ... Downloaded DocMemory 3.1 beta and ran 10 loops. No errors. Guess I am a bit hesitant to reformat the hard drive and try another install, but maybe that is the next option. "mvgberg" wrote: Ron Thank you. Over the weekend I was browsing other postings and was led to your website and your upgrade instructions. Here is what I did: I renamed the win.com and winver.exe files. This allowed me to get past the SU0168 message. Then I got the message that a directory in windows called desktop was present and had to be moved or renamed. I did that and the install proceeded. I rejected the intstall to Windows.000 and selected the windows directory. Everything ran without error until windows tried to do its first restart. Then I experienced the same hang up I described earlier as my original problem. Once again if I get into DOS and rename the setupx.dll and restart, it avoids the restart hangup, but as the windows install resumes I get more errors than I can count, many related to setupx.dll file not being present. Today I plan to download DocMemory and run it since I haven't followed up on that yet. One other item: The instructions that came from Gateway when I purchased my machine say that if I need to reinstall 98 to do it directly from the win98 CD, no floppy involved. When I do that ,the option comes up to boot either from hard drive or CD and I choose CD. I've tried it using a floppy startup disk as well but seems like I end up in the same place either way. "Ron Badour" wrote: You get that message because you are using an OEM version that is designed to be installed to a drive without a Windows operating system. If you want to try it, there is a way around the error message: Information on reinstalling or upgrading with an OEM CD: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour/html/upgrade.html -- Regards Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98 Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour Knowledge Base Info: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo "mvgberg" wrote in message ... Ben, I gave that a try, but I got a message that I must use a 98 Upgrade rather than a new install. There was no option to override the message so that is as far as I got. I don't want to belabor this issue, so I think I might try to wipe the hard drive and start from scratch if that makes any sense. "Ben Myers" wrote: If you have plenty of disk space, start the computer with a boot floppy and try renaming the "c:\windows\system" directory. rename c:\windows\system sysbak This should allow Windows setup to install a fresh set of system files. Also, if you are reasonably sure there are no disk or file system problems, you can skip Scandisk by running setup with the "/is" switch. setup /is Ben "mvgberg" wrote in message ... Sorry I didn't get back sooner, but had some snow and ice to deal with. I downloaded a hard disk diagnostic for my drive from western digital and it found no errors. I haven't tried the memory check yet. Also the attempt to repair IE failed with 'W95INF32.DLL ThunkConnect32 failure'. My last install attempt ran smoothly until it tried to do a restart, then it hung. I renamed the setupx.dll file and restarted the install which then continued, but generated numerous errors because it could not open the setupx.dll file, as well as some other errors unrelated to the setupx file. Seems like I can't get windows to start with the setupx file and when I rename it to get windows running it needs to use it. And maybe the setupx file doesn't have anything to do with it, but it sure seems like it. Anyway I'll keep trying and thank you for your time and help to this point. If you have any other suggestions send them my way. "Ben Myers" wrote: If you can get the computer started in normal or safe mode, click "Start,", "Run", type or paste one of the following into the "Open" box and click "OK". Then select "Repair Internet Explorer" and click "OK". Please note that these commands are case-sensitive. RUNDLL32 SETUPWBV,IE5Maintenance RUNDLL32 SETUPWBV,IE6Maintenance Ben "mvgberg" wrote in message news Ben/Jeff, Ben's suggestion did allow the install to continue without the error, thank you, however after files were copied, the computer restart failed pretty much the same as what I experienced on my original boot up problem. I never did resolve it and thought maybe a reinstall of windows might do the trick. Original problem - when I would start up the computer either normally or try safe mode it would hang on the windows 98 banner page. The error message was MSGSRV32 performed illegal operation and the details said general protection fault in module setupx.dll. I originally extracted a new setupx.dll from the windows cab file to no avail. When I renamed setupx.dll I was able to start up in safe mode. If I shut down in safe mode and then tried a normal restart (the setupx.dll still renamed) windows would come up ( with a few errors along the way) and some applications would work, like windows explorer and word, but not internet explorer. Jeff, when you reference doing a thorough disk check what utility would you suggest, whatever disks checks made by scan disk and before the install found no errors. Ben Myers" wrote: Type "rename c:\windows\powerpnt.ini powerpnt.bak" at the C:\ prompt. Then try the install again. Ben "mvgberg" wrote in message ... Trying to reinstall windows 98 on gateway desktop currently having bootup problems with existing installed 98. everything seems fine until get to "sit back and relax while windows installs". before I have time to relax Generic Installer Error Message SU99405 UPDATEInis = processing error. (0x195). pops up. When click on OK back to DOS prompt and that is it. Thanks for any help. |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
98 install problem
Ron, At this point I have nothing on the drive that needs to be saved. Over
time I have moved anything I wanted to save to my new machine. I looked at your 98 restore instructions and my plan is pretty basic. Reformat, reinstall windows. Then load my anti-virus and download any explorer, win98 and driver updates. I have CDs for any programs if I want to reload them. I've never done this before so I'm sure it won't be as easy as it sounds to me now. I'll wait to hear if you have other thoughts before I press the button. Thanks again. "Ron Badour" wrote: I kind of have a rule of thumb about reinstalling a system. If I cannot fix a serious problem within an hour, I feel I am just wasting time that could be used to zap the drive and start over. One of the first considerations is if you have data on the drive that must be saved. If there is, you can either slave up the hard drive to the drive in the computer you are posting with and save the data to that hard drive or you could buy a new hard drive and load Windows onto it. Once configured, then copy the info over from the old drive. Of course if everything is backed up, then just format the drive and start over. What I would do at this point is figure out exactly what you want to do, make a plan and then ask for a review of your plan. You might want to start he http://home.satx.rr.com/badour/html/w98_restore.html You apparently have a self booting system CD so you just have to start the computer with the CD in the drive and then follow the on screen prompts. Once the installation calls for a reboot, you will then boot from the HD instead of the CD. -- Regards Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98 Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour Knowledge Base Info: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo "mvgberg" wrote in message ... Downloaded DocMemory 3.1 beta and ran 10 loops. No errors. Guess I am a bit hesitant to reformat the hard drive and try another install, but maybe that is the next option. "mvgberg" wrote: Ron Thank you. Over the weekend I was browsing other postings and was led to your website and your upgrade instructions. Here is what I did: I renamed the win.com and winver.exe files. This allowed me to get past the SU0168 message. Then I got the message that a directory in windows called desktop was present and had to be moved or renamed. I did that and the install proceeded. I rejected the intstall to Windows.000 and selected the windows directory. Everything ran without error until windows tried to do its first restart. Then I experienced the same hang up I described earlier as my original problem. Once again if I get into DOS and rename the setupx.dll and restart, it avoids the restart hangup, but as the windows install resumes I get more errors than I can count, many related to setupx.dll file not being present. Today I plan to download DocMemory and run it since I haven't followed up on that yet. One other item: The instructions that came from Gateway when I purchased my machine say that if I need to reinstall 98 to do it directly from the win98 CD, no floppy involved. When I do that ,the option comes up to boot either from hard drive or CD and I choose CD. I've tried it using a floppy startup disk as well but seems like I end up in the same place either way. "Ron Badour" wrote: You get that message because you are using an OEM version that is designed to be installed to a drive without a Windows operating system. If you want to try it, there is a way around the error message: Information on reinstalling or upgrading with an OEM CD: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour/html/upgrade.html -- Regards Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98 Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour Knowledge Base Info: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo "mvgberg" wrote in message ... Ben, I gave that a try, but I got a message that I must use a 98 Upgrade rather than a new install. There was no option to override the message so that is as far as I got. I don't want to belabor this issue, so I think I might try to wipe the hard drive and start from scratch if that makes any sense. "Ben Myers" wrote: If you have plenty of disk space, start the computer with a boot floppy and try renaming the "c:\windows\system" directory. rename c:\windows\system sysbak This should allow Windows setup to install a fresh set of system files. Also, if you are reasonably sure there are no disk or file system problems, you can skip Scandisk by running setup with the "/is" switch. setup /is Ben "mvgberg" wrote in message ... Sorry I didn't get back sooner, but had some snow and ice to deal with. I downloaded a hard disk diagnostic for my drive from western digital and it found no errors. I haven't tried the memory check yet. Also the attempt to repair IE failed with 'W95INF32.DLL ThunkConnect32 failure'. My last install attempt ran smoothly until it tried to do a restart, then it hung. I renamed the setupx.dll file and restarted the install which then continued, but generated numerous errors because it could not open the setupx.dll file, as well as some other errors unrelated to the setupx file. Seems like I can't get windows to start with the setupx file and when I rename it to get windows running it needs to use it. And maybe the setupx file doesn't have anything to do with it, but it sure seems like it. Anyway I'll keep trying and thank you for your time and help to this point. If you have any other suggestions send them my way. "Ben Myers" wrote: If you can get the computer started in normal or safe mode, click "Start,", "Run", type or paste one of the following into the "Open" box and click "OK". Then select "Repair Internet Explorer" and click "OK". Please note that these commands are case-sensitive. RUNDLL32 SETUPWBV,IE5Maintenance RUNDLL32 SETUPWBV,IE6Maintenance Ben "mvgberg" wrote in message news Ben/Jeff, Ben's suggestion did allow the install to continue without the error, thank you, however after files were copied, the computer restart failed pretty much the same as what I experienced on my original boot up problem. I never did resolve it and thought maybe a reinstall of windows might do the trick. Original problem - when I would start up the computer either normally or try safe mode it would hang on the windows 98 banner page. The error message was MSGSRV32 performed illegal operation and the details said general protection fault in module setupx.dll. I originally extracted a new setupx.dll from the windows cab file to no avail. When I renamed setupx.dll I was able to start up in safe mode. If I shut down in safe mode and then tried a normal restart (the setupx.dll still renamed) windows would come up ( with a few errors along the way) and some applications would work, like windows explorer and word, but not internet explorer. Jeff, when you reference doing a thorough disk check what utility would you suggest, whatever disks checks made by scan disk and before the install found no errors. Ben Myers" wrote: Type "rename c:\windows\powerpnt.ini powerpnt.bak" at the C:\ prompt. Then try the install again. Ben "mvgberg" wrote in message ... Trying to reinstall windows 98 on gateway desktop currently having bootup problems with existing installed 98. everything seems fine until get to "sit back and relax while windows installs". before I have time to relax Generic Installer Error Message SU99405 UPDATEInis = processing error. (0x195). pops up. When click on OK back to DOS prompt and that is it. Thanks for any help. |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
98 install problem
Unless you run into some weird glitch, it is as easy as it sounds. It just
takes time to get it all done. I don't know what your restore system disk will do--maybe it contains all the drivers you need. My computers have come with a separate CD that contains all the drivers. After the system is installed, go to the control panel, system, device managers and see if there are dings indicating that driver installations are required. Then add the system updates/patches. -- Regards Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98 Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour Knowledge Base Info: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo "mvgberg" wrote in message ... Ron, At this point I have nothing on the drive that needs to be saved. Over time I have moved anything I wanted to save to my new machine. I looked at your 98 restore instructions and my plan is pretty basic. Reformat, reinstall windows. Then load my anti-virus and download any explorer, win98 and driver updates. I have CDs for any programs if I want to reload them. I've never done this before so I'm sure it won't be as easy as it sounds to me now. I'll wait to hear if you have other thoughts before I press the button. Thanks again. "Ron Badour" wrote: I kind of have a rule of thumb about reinstalling a system. If I cannot fix a serious problem within an hour, I feel I am just wasting time that could be used to zap the drive and start over. One of the first considerations is if you have data on the drive that must be saved. If there is, you can either slave up the hard drive to the drive in the computer you are posting with and save the data to that hard drive or you could buy a new hard drive and load Windows onto it. Once configured, then copy the info over from the old drive. Of course if everything is backed up, then just format the drive and start over. What I would do at this point is figure out exactly what you want to do, make a plan and then ask for a review of your plan. You might want to start he http://home.satx.rr.com/badour/html/w98_restore.html You apparently have a self booting system CD so you just have to start the computer with the CD in the drive and then follow the on screen prompts. Once the installation calls for a reboot, you will then boot from the HD instead of the CD. -- Regards Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98 Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour Knowledge Base Info: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo "mvgberg" wrote in message ... Downloaded DocMemory 3.1 beta and ran 10 loops. No errors. Guess I am a bit hesitant to reformat the hard drive and try another install, but maybe that is the next option. "mvgberg" wrote: Ron Thank you. Over the weekend I was browsing other postings and was led to your website and your upgrade instructions. Here is what I did: I renamed the win.com and winver.exe files. This allowed me to get past the SU0168 message. Then I got the message that a directory in windows called desktop was present and had to be moved or renamed. I did that and the install proceeded. I rejected the intstall to Windows.000 and selected the windows directory. Everything ran without error until windows tried to do its first restart. Then I experienced the same hang up I described earlier as my original problem. Once again if I get into DOS and rename the setupx.dll and restart, it avoids the restart hangup, but as the windows install resumes I get more errors than I can count, many related to setupx.dll file not being present. Today I plan to download DocMemory and run it since I haven't followed up on that yet. One other item: The instructions that came from Gateway when I purchased my machine say that if I need to reinstall 98 to do it directly from the win98 CD, no floppy involved. When I do that ,the option comes up to boot either from hard drive or CD and I choose CD. I've tried it using a floppy startup disk as well but seems like I end up in the same place either way. "Ron Badour" wrote: You get that message because you are using an OEM version that is designed to be installed to a drive without a Windows operating system. If you want to try it, there is a way around the error message: Information on reinstalling or upgrading with an OEM CD: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour/html/upgrade.html -- Regards Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98 Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour Knowledge Base Info: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo "mvgberg" wrote in message ... Ben, I gave that a try, but I got a message that I must use a 98 Upgrade rather than a new install. There was no option to override the message so that is as far as I got. I don't want to belabor this issue, so I think I might try to wipe the hard drive and start from scratch if that makes any sense. "Ben Myers" wrote: If you have plenty of disk space, start the computer with a boot floppy and try renaming the "c:\windows\system" directory. rename c:\windows\system sysbak This should allow Windows setup to install a fresh set of system files. Also, if you are reasonably sure there are no disk or file system problems, you can skip Scandisk by running setup with the "/is" switch. setup /is Ben "mvgberg" wrote in message ... Sorry I didn't get back sooner, but had some snow and ice to deal with. I downloaded a hard disk diagnostic for my drive from western digital and it found no errors. I haven't tried the memory check yet. Also the attempt to repair IE failed with 'W95INF32.DLL ThunkConnect32 failure'. My last install attempt ran smoothly until it tried to do a restart, then it hung. I renamed the setupx.dll file and restarted the install which then continued, but generated numerous errors because it could not open the setupx.dll file, as well as some other errors unrelated to the setupx file. Seems like I can't get windows to start with the setupx file and when I rename it to get windows running it needs to use it. And maybe the setupx file doesn't have anything to do with it, but it sure seems like it. Anyway I'll keep trying and thank you for your time and help to this point. If you have any other suggestions send them my way. "Ben Myers" wrote: If you can get the computer started in normal or safe mode, click "Start,", "Run", type or paste one of the following into the "Open" box and click "OK". Then select "Repair Internet Explorer" and click "OK". Please note that these commands are case-sensitive. RUNDLL32 SETUPWBV,IE5Maintenance RUNDLL32 SETUPWBV,IE6Maintenance Ben "mvgberg" wrote in message news Ben/Jeff, Ben's suggestion did allow the install to continue without the error, thank you, however after files were copied, the computer restart failed pretty much the same as what I experienced on my original boot up problem. I never did resolve it and thought maybe a reinstall of windows might do the trick. Original problem - when I would start up the computer either normally or try safe mode it would hang on the windows 98 banner page. The error message was MSGSRV32 performed illegal operation and the details said general protection fault in module setupx.dll. I originally extracted a new setupx.dll from the windows cab file to no avail. When I renamed setupx.dll I was able to start up in safe mode. If I shut down in safe mode and then tried a normal restart (the setupx.dll still renamed) windows would come up ( with a few errors along the way) and some applications would work, like windows explorer and word, but not internet explorer. Jeff, when you reference doing a thorough disk check what utility would you suggest, whatever disks checks made by scan disk and before the install found no errors. Ben Myers" wrote: Type "rename c:\windows\powerpnt.ini powerpnt.bak" at the C:\ prompt. Then try the install again. Ben "mvgberg" wrote in message ... Trying to reinstall windows 98 on gateway desktop currently having bootup problems with existing installed 98. everything seems fine until get to "sit back and relax while windows installs". before I have time to relax Generic Installer Error Message SU99405 UPDATEInis = processing error. (0x195). pops up. When click on OK back to DOS prompt and that is it. Thanks for any help. |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
98 install problem
It's been a long day, but the original problem is history. You were right
that the install was pretty easy. Getting all the other software loaded is a pain, but I'm pretty much done. Am experiencing one problem just after the windows 98 banner displays. Get message "Cannot find a device file that may be needed to run windows or a windows application. The windows registry or the system.ini file refers to this device but the device file no longer exists." This happens 3 times displaying the vnetsup.vxd, vredir.vxd and dfs.vxd files respectively as the missing files. After each display says hit enter to continue and windows does comes up ok. But apparently something is still not quite right. This started happening soon after the install completed ok. The devices all look good in device manager. Initially there were 3 with dings but installing the drivers from my restore cd fixed that. I probably should have waited and tried to fix the problem before going on, but figured it may fix itself along the way and if I had to start over at least I would have some practice. "Ron Badour" wrote: Unless you run into some weird glitch, it is as easy as it sounds. It just takes time to get it all done. I don't know what your restore system disk will do--maybe it contains all the drivers you need. My computers have come with a separate CD that contains all the drivers. After the system is installed, go to the control panel, system, device managers and see if there are dings indicating that driver installations are required. Then add the system updates/patches. -- Regards Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98 Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour Knowledge Base Info: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo "mvgberg" wrote in message ... Ron, At this point I have nothing on the drive that needs to be saved. Over time I have moved anything I wanted to save to my new machine. I looked at your 98 restore instructions and my plan is pretty basic. Reformat, reinstall windows. Then load my anti-virus and download any explorer, win98 and driver updates. I have CDs for any programs if I want to reload them. I've never done this before so I'm sure it won't be as easy as it sounds to me now. I'll wait to hear if you have other thoughts before I press the button. Thanks again. "Ron Badour" wrote: I kind of have a rule of thumb about reinstalling a system. If I cannot fix a serious problem within an hour, I feel I am just wasting time that could be used to zap the drive and start over. One of the first considerations is if you have data on the drive that must be saved. If there is, you can either slave up the hard drive to the drive in the computer you are posting with and save the data to that hard drive or you could buy a new hard drive and load Windows onto it. Once configured, then copy the info over from the old drive. Of course if everything is backed up, then just format the drive and start over. What I would do at this point is figure out exactly what you want to do, make a plan and then ask for a review of your plan. You might want to start he http://home.satx.rr.com/badour/html/w98_restore.html You apparently have a self booting system CD so you just have to start the computer with the CD in the drive and then follow the on screen prompts. Once the installation calls for a reboot, you will then boot from the HD instead of the CD. -- Regards Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98 Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour Knowledge Base Info: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo "mvgberg" wrote in message ... Downloaded DocMemory 3.1 beta and ran 10 loops. No errors. Guess I am a bit hesitant to reformat the hard drive and try another install, but maybe that is the next option. "mvgberg" wrote: Ron Thank you. Over the weekend I was browsing other postings and was led to your website and your upgrade instructions. Here is what I did: I renamed the win.com and winver.exe files. This allowed me to get past the SU0168 message. Then I got the message that a directory in windows called desktop was present and had to be moved or renamed. I did that and the install proceeded. I rejected the intstall to Windows.000 and selected the windows directory. Everything ran without error until windows tried to do its first restart. Then I experienced the same hang up I described earlier as my original problem. Once again if I get into DOS and rename the setupx.dll and restart, it avoids the restart hangup, but as the windows install resumes I get more errors than I can count, many related to setupx.dll file not being present. Today I plan to download DocMemory and run it since I haven't followed up on that yet. One other item: The instructions that came from Gateway when I purchased my machine say that if I need to reinstall 98 to do it directly from the win98 CD, no floppy involved. When I do that ,the option comes up to boot either from hard drive or CD and I choose CD. I've tried it using a floppy startup disk as well but seems like I end up in the same place either way. "Ron Badour" wrote: You get that message because you are using an OEM version that is designed to be installed to a drive without a Windows operating system. If you want to try it, there is a way around the error message: Information on reinstalling or upgrading with an OEM CD: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour/html/upgrade.html -- Regards Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98 Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour Knowledge Base Info: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo "mvgberg" wrote in message ... Ben, I gave that a try, but I got a message that I must use a 98 Upgrade rather than a new install. There was no option to override the message so that is as far as I got. I don't want to belabor this issue, so I think I might try to wipe the hard drive and start from scratch if that makes any sense. "Ben Myers" wrote: If you have plenty of disk space, start the computer with a boot floppy and try renaming the "c:\windows\system" directory. rename c:\windows\system sysbak This should allow Windows setup to install a fresh set of system files. Also, if you are reasonably sure there are no disk or file system problems, you can skip Scandisk by running setup with the "/is" switch. setup /is Ben "mvgberg" wrote in message ... Sorry I didn't get back sooner, but had some snow and ice to deal with. I downloaded a hard disk diagnostic for my drive from western digital and it found no errors. I haven't tried the memory check yet. Also the attempt to repair IE failed with 'W95INF32.DLL ThunkConnect32 failure'. My last install attempt ran smoothly until it tried to do a restart, then it hung. I renamed the setupx.dll file and restarted the install which then continued, but generated numerous errors because it could not open the setupx.dll file, as well as some other errors unrelated to the setupx file. Seems like I can't get windows to start with the setupx file and when I rename it to get windows running it needs to use it. And maybe the setupx file doesn't have anything to do with it, but it sure seems like it. Anyway I'll keep trying and thank you for your time and help to this point. If you have any other suggestions send them my way. "Ben Myers" wrote: If you can get the computer started in normal or safe mode, click "Start,", "Run", type or paste one of the following into the "Open" box and click "OK". Then select "Repair Internet Explorer" and click "OK". Please note that these commands are case-sensitive. RUNDLL32 SETUPWBV,IE5Maintenance RUNDLL32 SETUPWBV,IE6Maintenance Ben "mvgberg" wrote in message news Ben/Jeff, Ben's suggestion did allow the install to continue without the error, thank you, however after files were copied, the computer restart failed pretty much the same as what I experienced on my original boot up problem. I never did resolve it and thought maybe a reinstall of windows might do the trick. Original problem - when I would start up the computer either normally or try safe mode it would hang on the windows 98 banner page. The error message was MSGSRV32 performed illegal operation and the details said general protection fault in module setupx.dll. I originally extracted a new setupx.dll from the windows cab file to no avail. When I renamed setupx.dll I was able to start up in safe mode. If I shut down in safe mode and then tried a normal restart (the setupx.dll still renamed) windows would come up ( with a few errors along the way) and some applications would work, like windows explorer and word, but not internet explorer. Jeff, when you reference doing a thorough disk check what utility would you suggest, whatever disks checks made by scan disk and before the install found no errors. Ben Myers" wrote: Type "rename c:\windows\powerpnt.ini powerpnt.bak" at the C:\ |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
98 install problem
See if this article helps: http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=166832
-- Regards Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98 Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour Knowledge Base Info: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo "mvgberg" wrote in message ... It's been a long day, but the original problem is history. You were right that the install was pretty easy. Getting all the other software loaded is a pain, but I'm pretty much done. Am experiencing one problem just after the windows 98 banner displays. Get message "Cannot find a device file that may be needed to run windows or a windows application. The windows registry or the system.ini file refers to this device but the device file no longer exists." This happens 3 times displaying the vnetsup.vxd, vredir.vxd and dfs.vxd files respectively as the missing files. After each display says hit enter to continue and windows does comes up ok. But apparently something is still not quite right. This started happening soon after the install completed ok. The devices all look good in device manager. Initially there were 3 with dings but installing the drivers from my restore cd fixed that. I probably should have waited and tried to fix the problem before going on, but figured it may fix itself along the way and if I had to start over at least I would have some practice. "Ron Badour" wrote: Unless you run into some weird glitch, it is as easy as it sounds. It just takes time to get it all done. I don't know what your restore system disk will do--maybe it contains all the drivers you need. My computers have come with a separate CD that contains all the drivers. After the system is installed, go to the control panel, system, device managers and see if there are dings indicating that driver installations are required. Then add the system updates/patches. -- Regards Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98 Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour Knowledge Base Info: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo "mvgberg" wrote in message ... Ron, At this point I have nothing on the drive that needs to be saved. Over time I have moved anything I wanted to save to my new machine. I looked at your 98 restore instructions and my plan is pretty basic. Reformat, reinstall windows. Then load my anti-virus and download any explorer, win98 and driver updates. I have CDs for any programs if I want to reload them. I've never done this before so I'm sure it won't be as easy as it sounds to me now. I'll wait to hear if you have other thoughts before I press the button. Thanks again. "Ron Badour" wrote: I kind of have a rule of thumb about reinstalling a system. If I cannot fix a serious problem within an hour, I feel I am just wasting time that could be used to zap the drive and start over. One of the first considerations is if you have data on the drive that must be saved. If there is, you can either slave up the hard drive to the drive in the computer you are posting with and save the data to that hard drive or you could buy a new hard drive and load Windows onto it. Once configured, then copy the info over from the old drive. Of course if everything is backed up, then just format the drive and start over. What I would do at this point is figure out exactly what you want to do, make a plan and then ask for a review of your plan. You might want to start he http://home.satx.rr.com/badour/html/w98_restore.html You apparently have a self booting system CD so you just have to start the computer with the CD in the drive and then follow the on screen prompts. Once the installation calls for a reboot, you will then boot from the HD instead of the CD. -- Regards Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98 Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour Knowledge Base Info: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo "mvgberg" wrote in message ... Downloaded DocMemory 3.1 beta and ran 10 loops. No errors. Guess I am a bit hesitant to reformat the hard drive and try another install, but maybe that is the next option. "mvgberg" wrote: Ron Thank you. Over the weekend I was browsing other postings and was led to your website and your upgrade instructions. Here is what I did: I renamed the win.com and winver.exe files. This allowed me to get past the SU0168 message. Then I got the message that a directory in windows called desktop was present and had to be moved or renamed. I did that and the install proceeded. I rejected the intstall to Windows.000 and selected the windows directory. Everything ran without error until windows tried to do its first restart. Then I experienced the same hang up I described earlier as my original problem. Once again if I get into DOS and rename the setupx.dll and restart, it avoids the restart hangup, but as the windows install resumes I get more errors than I can count, many related to setupx.dll file not being present. Today I plan to download DocMemory and run it since I haven't followed up on that yet. One other item: The instructions that came from Gateway when I purchased my machine say that if I need to reinstall 98 to do it directly from the win98 CD, no floppy involved. When I do that ,the option comes up to boot either from hard drive or CD and I choose CD. I've tried it using a floppy startup disk as well but seems like I end up in the same place either way. "Ron Badour" wrote: You get that message because you are using an OEM version that is designed to be installed to a drive without a Windows operating system. If you want to try it, there is a way around the error message: Information on reinstalling or upgrading with an OEM CD: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour/html/upgrade.html -- Regards Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98 Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour Knowledge Base Info: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo "mvgberg" wrote in message ... Ben, I gave that a try, but I got a message that I must use a 98 Upgrade rather than a new install. There was no option to override the message so that is as far as I got. I don't want to belabor this issue, so I think I might try to wipe the hard drive and start from scratch if that makes any sense. "Ben Myers" wrote: If you have plenty of disk space, start the computer with a boot floppy and try renaming the "c:\windows\system" directory. rename c:\windows\system sysbak This should allow Windows setup to install a fresh set of system files. Also, if you are reasonably sure there are no disk or file system problems, you can skip Scandisk by running setup with the "/is" switch. setup /is Ben "mvgberg" wrote in message ... Sorry I didn't get back sooner, but had some snow and ice to deal with. I downloaded a hard disk diagnostic for my drive from western digital and it found no errors. I haven't tried the memory check yet. Also the attempt to repair IE failed with 'W95INF32.DLL ThunkConnect32 failure'. My last install attempt ran smoothly until it tried to do a restart, then it hung. I renamed the setupx.dll file and restarted the install which then continued, but generated numerous errors because it could not open the setupx.dll file, as well as some other errors unrelated to the setupx file. Seems like I can't get windows to start with the setupx file and when I rename it to get windows running it needs to use it. And maybe the setupx file doesn't have anything to do with it, but it sure seems like it. Anyway I'll keep trying and thank you for your time and help to this point. If you have any other suggestions send them my way. "Ben Myers" wrote: If you can get the computer started in normal or safe mode, click "Start,", "Run", type or paste one of the following into the "Open" box and click "OK". Then select "Repair Internet Explorer" and click "OK". Please note that these commands are case-sensitive. RUNDLL32 SETUPWBV,IE5Maintenance RUNDLL32 SETUPWBV,IE6Maintenance Ben "mvgberg" wrote in message news Ben/Jeff, Ben's suggestion did allow the install to continue without the error, thank you, however after files were copied, the computer restart failed pretty much the same as what I experienced on my original boot up problem. I never did resolve it and thought maybe a reinstall of windows might do the trick. Original problem - when I would start up the computer either normally or try safe mode it would hang on the windows 98 banner page. The error message was MSGSRV32 performed illegal operation and the details said general protection fault in module setupx.dll. I originally extracted a new setupx.dll from the windows cab file to no avail. When I renamed setupx.dll I was able to start up in safe mode. If I shut down in safe mode and then tried a normal restart (the setupx.dll still renamed) windows would come up ( with a few errors along the way) and some applications would work, like windows explorer and word, but not internet explorer. Jeff, when you reference doing a thorough disk check what utility would you suggest, whatever disks checks made by scan disk and before the install found no errors. Ben Myers" wrote: Type "rename c:\windows\powerpnt.ini powerpnt.bak" at the C:\ |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
98 install problem
The article you referenced was definitely the problem. I followed the
directions but for some reason I was still getting the file missing messages, but based on the info in the article it looked like I just needed to get the files on the hard drive. So I manually extracted the 3 files from my 98 install cd. I wasn't sure where to put them, so I put them in C:\windows\system. I did a restart and got no error messages so I guess they were found. I don't even need or want this dial-up stuff, since I have a DSL connection, but probably during the install I may have gone down that path or maybe it was installed by default. I know a couple times when I was installing drivers it wanted the 98 install CD put in, and sometimes it could not find the files it was looking for so maybe that was it. I'm going to call this good. Thanks to all, especially Ron. In the future I will definitely heed your 1 hour rule - I could have saved a ton of time and frustration. "Ron Badour" wrote: See if this article helps: http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=166832 -- Regards Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98 Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour Knowledge Base Info: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo "mvgberg" wrote in message ... It's been a long day, but the original problem is history. You were right that the install was pretty easy. Getting all the other software loaded is a pain, but I'm pretty much done. Am experiencing one problem just after the windows 98 banner displays. Get message "Cannot find a device file that may be needed to run windows or a windows application. The windows registry or the system.ini file refers to this device but the device file no longer exists." This happens 3 times displaying the vnetsup.vxd, vredir.vxd and dfs.vxd files respectively as the missing files. After each display says hit enter to continue and windows does comes up ok. But apparently something is still not quite right. This started happening soon after the install completed ok. The devices all look good in device manager. Initially there were 3 with dings but installing the drivers from my restore cd fixed that. I probably should have waited and tried to fix the problem before going on, but figured it may fix itself along the way and if I had to start over at least I would have some practice. "Ron Badour" wrote: Unless you run into some weird glitch, it is as easy as it sounds. It just takes time to get it all done. I don't know what your restore system disk will do--maybe it contains all the drivers you need. My computers have come with a separate CD that contains all the drivers. After the system is installed, go to the control panel, system, device managers and see if there are dings indicating that driver installations are required. Then add the system updates/patches. -- Regards Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98 Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour Knowledge Base Info: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo "mvgberg" wrote in message ... Ron, At this point I have nothing on the drive that needs to be saved. Over time I have moved anything I wanted to save to my new machine. I looked at your 98 restore instructions and my plan is pretty basic. Reformat, reinstall windows. Then load my anti-virus and download any explorer, win98 and driver updates. I have CDs for any programs if I want to reload them. I've never done this before so I'm sure it won't be as easy as it sounds to me now. I'll wait to hear if you have other thoughts before I press the button. Thanks again. "Ron Badour" wrote: I kind of have a rule of thumb about reinstalling a system. If I cannot fix a serious problem within an hour, I feel I am just wasting time that could be used to zap the drive and start over. One of the first considerations is if you have data on the drive that must be saved. If there is, you can either slave up the hard drive to the drive in the computer you are posting with and save the data to that hard drive or you could buy a new hard drive and load Windows onto it. Once configured, then copy the info over from the old drive. Of course if everything is backed up, then just format the drive and start over. What I would do at this point is figure out exactly what you want to do, make a plan and then ask for a review of your plan. You might want to start he http://home.satx.rr.com/badour/html/w98_restore.html You apparently have a self booting system CD so you just have to start the computer with the CD in the drive and then follow the on screen prompts. Once the installation calls for a reboot, you will then boot from the HD instead of the CD. -- Regards Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98 Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour Knowledge Base Info: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo "mvgberg" wrote in message ... Downloaded DocMemory 3.1 beta and ran 10 loops. No errors. Guess I am a bit hesitant to reformat the hard drive and try another install, but maybe that is the next option. "mvgberg" wrote: Ron Thank you. Over the weekend I was browsing other postings and was led to your website and your upgrade instructions. Here is what I did: I renamed the win.com and winver.exe files. This allowed me to get past the SU0168 message. Then I got the message that a directory in windows called desktop was present and had to be moved or renamed. I did that and the install proceeded. I rejected the intstall to Windows.000 and selected the windows directory. Everything ran without error until windows tried to do its first restart. Then I experienced the same hang up I described earlier as my original problem. Once again if I get into DOS and rename the setupx.dll and restart, it avoids the restart hangup, but as the windows install resumes I get more errors than I can count, many related to setupx.dll file not being present. Today I plan to download DocMemory and run it since I haven't followed up on that yet. One other item: The instructions that came from Gateway when I purchased my machine say that if I need to reinstall 98 to do it directly from the win98 CD, no floppy involved. When I do that ,the option comes up to boot either from hard drive or CD and I choose CD. I've tried it using a floppy startup disk as well but seems like I end up in the same place either way. "Ron Badour" wrote: You get that message because you are using an OEM version that is designed to be installed to a drive without a Windows operating system. If you want to try it, there is a way around the error message: Information on reinstalling or upgrading with an OEM CD: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour/html/upgrade.html -- Regards Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98 Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour Knowledge Base Info: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo "mvgberg" wrote in message ... Ben, I gave that a try, but I got a message that I must use a 98 Upgrade rather than a new install. There was no option to override the message so that is as far as I got. I don't want to belabor this issue, so I think I might try to wipe the hard drive and start from scratch if that makes any sense. "Ben Myers" wrote: If you have plenty of disk space, start the computer with a boot floppy and try renaming the "c:\windows\system" directory. rename c:\windows\system sysbak This should allow Windows setup to install a fresh set of system files. Also, if you are reasonably sure there are no disk or file system problems, you can skip Scandisk by running setup with the "/is" switch. setup /is Ben "mvgberg" wrote in message ... Sorry I didn't get back sooner, but had some snow and ice to deal with. I downloaded a hard disk diagnostic for my drive from western digital and it found no errors. I haven't tried the memory check yet. Also the attempt to repair IE failed with 'W95INF32.DLL ThunkConnect32 failure'. My last install attempt ran smoothly until it tried to do a restart, then it hung. I renamed the setupx.dll file and restarted the install which then continued, but generated numerous errors because it could not open the setupx.dll file, as well as some other errors unrelated to the setupx file. Seems like I can't get windows to start with the setupx file and when I rename it to get windows running it needs to use it. And maybe the setupx file doesn't have anything to do with it, but it sure seems like it. Anyway I'll keep trying and thank you for your time and help to this point. If you |
|
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
rage 128 pro install problem | Alan | General | 2 | December 14th 06 03:20 AM |
New win98 install problem | Torben Broendum | General | 2 | November 10th 06 12:47 AM |
Windows 98 Boot up problem due to ndiswan.vxd missing file | Martin Healy | Setup & Installation | 2 | May 4th 05 11:34 PM |
WAP Utility Install Problem on Win98SE | David H. | General | 0 | August 14th 04 02:47 PM |
win install problem | Jeff | General | 0 | June 5th 04 10:06 PM |