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#1
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Finding the CDROM
Could someone enlighten me as to why the old computers had to have the cdrom drivers loaded, etc. before the machine would be able to find the drive, and the newer machines can be booted to the cdrom even with a new or formatted hard-drive. Does it have something to do with the newer motherboards or is this something within the newer cdrom drives. I found on the last machine I built using the Soyo Dragon M/B that I didn't have to do anything but set it in the bios to boot to the cdrom and it was that easy, pop in the Win 98 cd and installed without any trouble, easiest install I ever did.
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#2
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You are talking apples and oranges. Loading DOS CD drivers is for accessing the CD
drive from a DOS boot, such as "Command Prompt Only" or from a boot floppy disk. The CD drive cannot be accessed in DOS without loading those drivers. Booting from the CD drive is an entirely different situation, and that is a feature of the BIOS on the motherboard. Booting from a CD drive does not involve DOS at all. BTW, the fact that you were able to boot from the Win98 CD indicates that your Windows CD is an OEM copy. Retail copies of Win98 are not bootable. (All Windows XP discs *are* bootable, however). -- Glen Ventura, MS MVP W95/98 Systems http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm "Tap" wrote in message ... Could someone enlighten me as to why the old computers had to have the cdrom drivers loaded, etc. before the machine would be able to find the drive, and the newer machines can be booted to the cdrom even with a new or formatted hard-drive. Does it have something to do with the newer motherboards or is this something within the newer cdrom drives. I found on the last machine I built using the Soyo Dragon M/B that I didn't have to do anything but set it in the bios to boot to the cdrom and it was that easy, pop in the Win 98 cd and installed without any trouble, easiest install I ever did. -- Tap |
#3
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The CD used has to be a bootable CD. It has to have a minimal OS to
function. And, yes, it's changes in the motherboard that made that possible, but those changes were pretty standard in any post-486 machine. It's just that until Windows 2000, Microsoft didn't themselves produce OS installation CDs that were bootable. You used a floppy startup disk that loaded drivers. If your new mobo can run and use a generic Win98 installation CD, then it has something that's *very* new--an onboard OS that's complicated enough to emulate MSDOS. Otherwise, I can guarantee you that your Win98 CD wasn't a standard one--wasn't a Microsoft Upgrade, Full or generic OEM CD. Rather, it was a "Restore" CD provided by your machine's maker that included a bootable partition, probably some other tools, and the Win98 installation files. -- Gary S. Terhune MS MVP Shell/User "Tap" wrote in message ... Could someone enlighten me as to why the old computers had to have the cdrom drivers loaded, etc. before the machine would be able to find the drive, and the newer machines can be booted to the cdrom even with a new or formatted hard-drive. Does it have something to do with the newer motherboards or is this something within the newer cdrom drives. I found on the last machine I built using the Soyo Dragon M/B that I didn't have to do anything but set it in the bios to boot to the cdrom and it was that easy, pop in the Win 98 cd and installed without any trouble, easiest install I ever did. -- Tap |
#4
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It has long been my understanding that many OEM copies of Win98 are bootable.
-- Glen Ventura, MS MVP W95/98 Systems http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm "Gary S. Terhune" wrote in message ... The CD used has to be a bootable CD. It has to have a minimal OS to function. And, yes, it's changes in the motherboard that made that possible, but those changes were pretty standard in any post-486 machine. It's just that until Windows 2000, Microsoft didn't themselves produce OS installation CDs that were bootable. You used a floppy startup disk that loaded drivers. If your new mobo can run and use a generic Win98 installation CD, then it has something that's *very* new--an onboard OS that's complicated enough to emulate MSDOS. Otherwise, I can guarantee you that your Win98 CD wasn't a standard one--wasn't a Microsoft Upgrade, Full or generic OEM CD. Rather, it was a "Restore" CD provided by your machine's maker that included a bootable partition, probably some other tools, and the Win98 installation files. -- Gary S. Terhune MS MVP Shell/User "Tap" wrote in message ... Could someone enlighten me as to why the old computers had to have the cdrom drivers loaded, etc. before the machine would be able to find the drive, and the newer machines can be booted to the cdrom even with a new or formatted hard-drive. Does it have something to do with the newer motherboards or is this something within the newer cdrom drives. I found on the last machine I built using the Soyo Dragon M/B that I didn't have to do anything but set it in the bios to boot to the cdrom and it was that easy, pop in the Win 98 cd and installed without any trouble, easiest install I ever did. -- Tap |
#5
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The proprietary ones, yes--the ones printed and distributed with
name-brand systems. But, AFAIK, not the "generic" OEM disk that MS provided in bulk to HW vendors. The one that says, "For installation on a new PC only" or whatever the wording is. -- Gary S. Terhune MS MVP Shell/User "glee" wrote in message ... It has long been my understanding that many OEM copies of Win98 are bootable. -- Glen Ventura, MS MVP W95/98 Systems http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm "Gary S. Terhune" wrote in message ... The CD used has to be a bootable CD. It has to have a minimal OS to function. And, yes, it's changes in the motherboard that made that possible, but those changes were pretty standard in any post-486 machine. It's just that until Windows 2000, Microsoft didn't themselves produce OS installation CDs that were bootable. You used a floppy startup disk that loaded drivers. If your new mobo can run and use a generic Win98 installation CD, then it has something that's *very* new--an onboard OS that's complicated enough to emulate MSDOS. Otherwise, I can guarantee you that your Win98 CD wasn't a standard one--wasn't a Microsoft Upgrade, Full or generic OEM CD. Rather, it was a "Restore" CD provided by your machine's maker that included a bootable partition, probably some other tools, and the Win98 installation files. -- Gary S. Terhune MS MVP Shell/User "Tap" wrote in message ... Could someone enlighten me as to why the old computers had to have the cdrom drivers loaded, etc. before the machine would be able to find the drive, and the newer machines can be booted to the cdrom even with a new or formatted hard-drive. Does it have something to do with the newer motherboards or is this something within the newer cdrom drives. I found on the last machine I built using the Soyo Dragon M/B that I didn't have to do anything but set it in the bios to boot to the cdrom and it was that easy, pop in the Win 98 cd and installed without any trouble, easiest install I ever did. -- Tap |
#6
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OK, but I am not referring to "Restore Discs", but actual OEM CDs.
Hmmm...have a look he http://snipurl.com/c02i http://snipurl.com/c02g -- Glen Ventura, MS MVP W95/98 Systems http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm "Gary S. Terhune" wrote in message ... The proprietary ones, yes--the ones printed and distributed with name-brand systems. But, AFAIK, not the "generic" OEM disk that MS provided in bulk to HW vendors. The one that says, "For installation on a new PC only" or whatever the wording is. -- Gary S. Terhune MS MVP Shell/User "glee" wrote in message ... It has long been my understanding that many OEM copies of Win98 are bootable. -- Glen Ventura, MS MVP W95/98 Systems http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm "Gary S. Terhune" wrote in message ... The CD used has to be a bootable CD. It has to have a minimal OS to function. And, yes, it's changes in the motherboard that made that possible, but those changes were pretty standard in any post-486 machine. It's just that until Windows 2000, Microsoft didn't themselves produce OS installation CDs that were bootable. You used a floppy startup disk that loaded drivers. If your new mobo can run and use a generic Win98 installation CD, then it has something that's *very* new--an onboard OS that's complicated enough to emulate MSDOS. Otherwise, I can guarantee you that your Win98 CD wasn't a standard one--wasn't a Microsoft Upgrade, Full or generic OEM CD. Rather, it was a "Restore" CD provided by your machine's maker that included a bootable partition, probably some other tools, and the Win98 installation files. -- Gary S. Terhune MS MVP Shell/User "Tap" wrote in message ... Could someone enlighten me as to why the old computers had to have the cdrom drivers loaded, etc. before the machine would be able to find the drive, and the newer machines can be booted to the cdrom even with a new or formatted hard-drive. Does it have something to do with the newer motherboards or is this something within the newer cdrom drives. I found on the last machine I built using the Soyo Dragon M/B that I didn't have to do anything but set it in the bios to boot to the cdrom and it was that easy, pop in the Win 98 cd and installed without any trouble, easiest install I ever did. -- Tap |
#7
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From the first reference: "The OEM versions go through a different burn
process and may or may not be bootable depending on who created the CD." Precisely. I was referring to the "generic" OEM CDs produced by Microsoft and sold wholesale to smaller hardware vendors who do not create their own CDs. There are many "proprietary" OEM versions that aren't what we traditionally think of as "Restore" CDs, which often contain an image of the installed system, or have the MS installation files already extracted from the CABS and bundled in some other manner. Many are pretty much the same as the retail versions, just without most of the extra content, and with their own extra content added in. These last may or may not be bootable. I'm talking about the ones that are for all practical purposes identical to the Full Retail copies except for licensing and the "must clean install" mechanisms. At least, from my experience with several "generic" OEM disks, I'm 99% certain that I'm right on this. We'd have to get Richard in on this to know just what he was referring to. -- Gary S. Terhune MS MVP Shell/User "glee" wrote in message ... OK, but I am not referring to "Restore Discs", but actual OEM CDs. Hmmm...have a look he http://snipurl.com/c02i http://snipurl.com/c02g -- Glen Ventura, MS MVP W95/98 Systems http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm "Gary S. Terhune" wrote in message ... The proprietary ones, yes--the ones printed and distributed with name-brand systems. But, AFAIK, not the "generic" OEM disk that MS provided in bulk to HW vendors. The one that says, "For installation on a new PC only" or whatever the wording is. -- Gary S. Terhune MS MVP Shell/User "glee" wrote in message ... It has long been my understanding that many OEM copies of Win98 are bootable. -- Glen Ventura, MS MVP W95/98 Systems http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm "Gary S. Terhune" wrote in message ... The CD used has to be a bootable CD. It has to have a minimal OS to function. And, yes, it's changes in the motherboard that made that possible, but those changes were pretty standard in any post-486 machine. It's just that until Windows 2000, Microsoft didn't themselves produce OS installation CDs that were bootable. You used a floppy startup disk that loaded drivers. If your new mobo can run and use a generic Win98 installation CD, then it has something that's *very* new--an onboard OS that's complicated enough to emulate MSDOS. Otherwise, I can guarantee you that your Win98 CD wasn't a standard one--wasn't a Microsoft Upgrade, Full or generic OEM CD. Rather, it was a "Restore" CD provided by your machine's maker that included a bootable partition, probably some other tools, and the Win98 installation files. -- Gary S. Terhune MS MVP Shell/User "Tap" wrote in message ... Could someone enlighten me as to why the old computers had to have the cdrom drivers loaded, etc. before the machine would be able to find the drive, and the newer machines can be booted to the cdrom even with a new or formatted hard-drive. Does it have something to do with the newer motherboards or is this something within the newer cdrom drives. I found on the last machine I built using the Soyo Dragon M/B that I didn't have to do anything but set it in the bios to boot to the cdrom and it was that easy, pop in the Win 98 cd and installed without any trouble, easiest install I ever did. -- Tap |
#8
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That's from the second reference, not the first, and is made by Walter. Please read
Len Segal's reply in the second reference...Len IIRC is an OEM builder: paste Hopefully to clarify . . . ALL MS Win98 CD OEM Full Versions are Bootable. ALL MS Win NT & Win2K CD OEM & Retail Full Versions are Bootable. [Having never dealt with the Retail Upgrade copies of WinNT/2K, I can't answer that one.] OEM Win9x CDs created by the larger OEMs (e.g. Dell, Gateway, IBM, HP, etc.) "Usually" are Bootable, but may be "Recovery Disks" which also load all the junk shelfware that was shipped by the OEM. Sometimes the user is supplied an "alleged Win9x OEM CD" (created by the OEM) which may not be bootable (intentionally missing some critical files to prevent booting). -- Regards, Len Segal, MCP Segal Computer Consulting Microsoft - MVP (DTS), ClubWin /paste -- Glen Ventura, MS MVP W95/98 Systems http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm "Gary S. Terhune" wrote in message ... From the first reference: "The OEM versions go through a different burn process and may or may not be bootable depending on who created the CD." Precisely. I was referring to the "generic" OEM CDs produced by Microsoft and sold wholesale to smaller hardware vendors who do not create their own CDs. There are many "proprietary" OEM versions that aren't what we traditionally think of as "Restore" CDs, which often contain an image of the installed system, or have the MS installation files already extracted from the CABS and bundled in some other manner. Many are pretty much the same as the retail versions, just without most of the extra content, and with their own extra content added in. These last may or may not be bootable. I'm talking about the ones that are for all practical purposes identical to the Full Retail copies except for licensing and the "must clean install" mechanisms. At least, from my experience with several "generic" OEM disks, I'm 99% certain that I'm right on this. We'd have to get Richard in on this to know just what he was referring to. -- Gary S. Terhune MS MVP Shell/User "glee" wrote in message ... OK, but I am not referring to "Restore Discs", but actual OEM CDs. Hmmm...have a look he http://snipurl.com/c02i http://snipurl.com/c02g -- Glen Ventura, MS MVP W95/98 Systems http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm "Gary S. Terhune" wrote in message ... The proprietary ones, yes--the ones printed and distributed with name-brand systems. But, AFAIK, not the "generic" OEM disk that MS provided in bulk to HW vendors. The one that says, "For installation on a new PC only" or whatever the wording is. -- Gary S. Terhune MS MVP Shell/User "glee" wrote in message ... It has long been my understanding that many OEM copies of Win98 are bootable. -- Glen Ventura, MS MVP W95/98 Systems http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm "Gary S. Terhune" wrote in message ... The CD used has to be a bootable CD. It has to have a minimal OS to function. And, yes, it's changes in the motherboard that made that possible, but those changes were pretty standard in any post-486 machine. It's just that until Windows 2000, Microsoft didn't themselves produce OS installation CDs that were bootable. You used a floppy startup disk that loaded drivers. If your new mobo can run and use a generic Win98 installation CD, then it has something that's *very* new--an onboard OS that's complicated enough to emulate MSDOS. Otherwise, I can guarantee you that your Win98 CD wasn't a standard one--wasn't a Microsoft Upgrade, Full or generic OEM CD. Rather, it was a "Restore" CD provided by your machine's maker that included a bootable partition, probably some other tools, and the Win98 installation files. -- Gary S. Terhune MS MVP Shell/User "Tap" wrote in message ... Could someone enlighten me as to why the old computers had to have the cdrom drivers loaded, etc. before the machine would be able to find the drive, and the newer machines can be booted to the cdrom even with a new or formatted hard-drive. Does it have something to do with the newer motherboards or is this something within the newer cdrom drives. I found on the last machine I built using the Soyo Dragon M/B that I didn't have to do anything but set it in the bios to boot to the cdrom and it was that easy, pop in the Win 98 cd and installed without any trouble, easiest install I ever did. -- Tap |
#9
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Huh! Guess I'll have to dig up a few and see what's what. Doesn't match
my experience, but that's my experience as remembered, and my memory has been slipping over the last couple of years, s. -- Gary S. Terhune MS MVP Shell/User "glee" wrote in message .. . That's from the second reference, not the first, and is made by Walter. Please read Len Segal's reply in the second reference...Len IIRC is an OEM builder: paste Hopefully to clarify . . . ALL MS Win98 CD OEM Full Versions are Bootable. ALL MS Win NT & Win2K CD OEM & Retail Full Versions are Bootable. [Having never dealt with the Retail Upgrade copies of WinNT/2K, I can't answer that one.] OEM Win9x CDs created by the larger OEMs (e.g. Dell, Gateway, IBM, HP, etc.) "Usually" are Bootable, but may be "Recovery Disks" which also load all the junk shelfware that was shipped by the OEM. Sometimes the user is supplied an "alleged Win9x OEM CD" (created by the OEM) which may not be bootable (intentionally missing some critical files to prevent booting). -- Regards, Len Segal, MCP Segal Computer Consulting Microsoft - MVP (DTS), ClubWin /paste -- Glen Ventura, MS MVP W95/98 Systems http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm "Gary S. Terhune" wrote in message ... From the first reference: "The OEM versions go through a different burn process and may or may not be bootable depending on who created the CD." Precisely. I was referring to the "generic" OEM CDs produced by Microsoft and sold wholesale to smaller hardware vendors who do not create their own CDs. There are many "proprietary" OEM versions that aren't what we traditionally think of as "Restore" CDs, which often contain an image of the installed system, or have the MS installation files already extracted from the CABS and bundled in some other manner. Many are pretty much the same as the retail versions, just without most of the extra content, and with their own extra content added in. These last may or may not be bootable. I'm talking about the ones that are for all practical purposes identical to the Full Retail copies except for licensing and the "must clean install" mechanisms. At least, from my experience with several "generic" OEM disks, I'm 99% certain that I'm right on this. We'd have to get Richard in on this to know just what he was referring to. -- Gary S. Terhune MS MVP Shell/User "glee" wrote in message ... OK, but I am not referring to "Restore Discs", but actual OEM CDs. Hmmm...have a look he http://snipurl.com/c02i http://snipurl.com/c02g -- Glen Ventura, MS MVP W95/98 Systems http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm "Gary S. Terhune" wrote in message ... The proprietary ones, yes--the ones printed and distributed with name-brand systems. But, AFAIK, not the "generic" OEM disk that MS provided in bulk to HW vendors. The one that says, "For installation on a new PC only" or whatever the wording is. -- Gary S. Terhune MS MVP Shell/User "glee" wrote in message ... It has long been my understanding that many OEM copies of Win98 are bootable. -- Glen Ventura, MS MVP W95/98 Systems http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm "Gary S. Terhune" wrote in message ... The CD used has to be a bootable CD. It has to have a minimal OS to function. And, yes, it's changes in the motherboard that made that possible, but those changes were pretty standard in any post-486 machine. It's just that until Windows 2000, Microsoft didn't themselves produce OS installation CDs that were bootable. You used a floppy startup disk that loaded drivers. If your new mobo can run and use a generic Win98 installation CD, then it has something that's *very* new--an onboard OS that's complicated enough to emulate MSDOS. Otherwise, I can guarantee you that your Win98 CD wasn't a standard one--wasn't a Microsoft Upgrade, Full or generic OEM CD. Rather, it was a "Restore" CD provided by your machine's maker that included a bootable partition, probably some other tools, and the Win98 installation files. -- Gary S. Terhune MS MVP Shell/User "Tap" wrote in message ... Could someone enlighten me as to why the old computers had to have the cdrom drivers loaded, etc. before the machine would be able to find the drive, and the newer machines can be booted to the cdrom even with a new or formatted hard-drive. Does it have something to do with the newer motherboards or is this something within the newer cdrom drives. I found on the last machine I built using the Soyo Dragon M/B that I didn't have to do anything but set it in the bios to boot to the cdrom and it was that easy, pop in the Win 98 cd and installed without any trouble, easiest install I ever did. -- Tap |
#10
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....and I have VERY little experience with OEM CDs, so I have been *believing* Len
all these years, as he tends to privy to OEM info that I am not. Let me/us know what you find! Certainly not trying to argue with you....just relating the info I have on the subject. :-) -- Glen Ventura, MS MVP W95/98 Systems http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm "Gary S. Terhune" wrote in message ... Huh! Guess I'll have to dig up a few and see what's what. Doesn't match my experience, but that's my experience as remembered, and my memory has been slipping over the last couple of years, s. -- Gary S. Terhune MS MVP Shell/User "glee" wrote in message .. . That's from the second reference, not the first, and is made by Walter. Please read Len Segal's reply in the second reference...Len IIRC is an OEM builder: paste Hopefully to clarify . . . ALL MS Win98 CD OEM Full Versions are Bootable. ALL MS Win NT & Win2K CD OEM & Retail Full Versions are Bootable. [Having never dealt with the Retail Upgrade copies of WinNT/2K, I can't answer that one.] OEM Win9x CDs created by the larger OEMs (e.g. Dell, Gateway, IBM, HP, etc.) "Usually" are Bootable, but may be "Recovery Disks" which also load all the junk shelfware that was shipped by the OEM. Sometimes the user is supplied an "alleged Win9x OEM CD" (created by the OEM) which may not be bootable (intentionally missing some critical files to prevent booting). -- Regards, Len Segal, MCP Segal Computer Consulting Microsoft - MVP (DTS), ClubWin /paste -- Glen Ventura, MS MVP W95/98 Systems http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm "Gary S. Terhune" wrote in message ... From the first reference: "The OEM versions go through a different burn process and may or may not be bootable depending on who created the CD." Precisely. I was referring to the "generic" OEM CDs produced by Microsoft and sold wholesale to smaller hardware vendors who do not create their own CDs. There are many "proprietary" OEM versions that aren't what we traditionally think of as "Restore" CDs, which often contain an image of the installed system, or have the MS installation files already extracted from the CABS and bundled in some other manner. Many are pretty much the same as the retail versions, just without most of the extra content, and with their own extra content added in. These last may or may not be bootable. I'm talking about the ones that are for all practical purposes identical to the Full Retail copies except for licensing and the "must clean install" mechanisms. At least, from my experience with several "generic" OEM disks, I'm 99% certain that I'm right on this. We'd have to get Richard in on this to know just what he was referring to. -- Gary S. Terhune MS MVP Shell/User "glee" wrote in message ... OK, but I am not referring to "Restore Discs", but actual OEM CDs. Hmmm...have a look he http://snipurl.com/c02i http://snipurl.com/c02g -- Glen Ventura, MS MVP W95/98 Systems http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm "Gary S. Terhune" wrote in message ... The proprietary ones, yes--the ones printed and distributed with name-brand systems. But, AFAIK, not the "generic" OEM disk that MS provided in bulk to HW vendors. The one that says, "For installation on a new PC only" or whatever the wording is. -- Gary S. Terhune MS MVP Shell/User "glee" wrote in message ... It has long been my understanding that many OEM copies of Win98 are bootable. -- Glen Ventura, MS MVP W95/98 Systems http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm "Gary S. Terhune" wrote in message ... The CD used has to be a bootable CD. It has to have a minimal OS to function. And, yes, it's changes in the motherboard that made that possible, but those changes were pretty standard in any post-486 machine. It's just that until Windows 2000, Microsoft didn't themselves produce OS installation CDs that were bootable. You used a floppy startup disk that loaded drivers. If your new mobo can run and use a generic Win98 installation CD, then it has something that's *very* new--an onboard OS that's complicated enough to emulate MSDOS. Otherwise, I can guarantee you that your Win98 CD wasn't a standard one--wasn't a Microsoft Upgrade, Full or generic OEM CD. Rather, it was a "Restore" CD provided by your machine's maker that included a bootable partition, probably some other tools, and the Win98 installation files. -- Gary S. Terhune MS MVP Shell/User "Tap" wrote in message ... Could someone enlighten me as to why the old computers had to have the cdrom drivers loaded, etc. before the machine would be able to find the drive, and the newer machines can be booted to the cdrom even with a new or formatted hard-drive. Does it have something to do with the newer motherboards or is this something within the newer cdrom drives. I found on the last machine I built using the Soyo Dragon M/B that I didn't have to do anything but set it in the bios to boot to the cdrom and it was that easy, pop in the Win 98 cd and installed without any trouble, easiest install I ever did. -- Tap |
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