Surprised!

"Hot-text" wrote in message
...
I till you I Add and Remove newsgroups all the time and Microsoft will
begin closing newsgroups
and not the server on Microsoft

would you to read it one more time and till me were you is the WORD
SERVER:: closing

What is a "WORD SERVER" ?
If there are no news groups on a Microsoft "NEWS SERVER" why would it
exist ?

When all the news groups are "removed" there is no point in having a news
server.

"glee" wrote:

Microsoft Basher "98 Guy" excerpted only the parts he
wanted to respond to, and replied in message
...
glee wrote:

Speaking of a criminal organization, how many of you are aware
that Microsoft's last auto-update package delivered a firefox
add-on that tampers with your browser's search functionality

The Firefox extension and IE add-on from the "Search Enhancement"
update were only installed on systems that had the Live, MSN, or
Bing browser toolbar installed, since it is part of an update that
involves those toolbars.

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/new...bar-update.ars

---------
On one of our Windows systems, we had the Windows Live Toolbar
installed
for Internet Explorer but not for Firefox. Nevertheless, installing
this update added the add-on/extension to both browsers without
telling
us that it would do so. On our second system, we had the Bing Bar
installed for Internet Explorer, but it was disabled. Firefox was not
installed. This system already had the update in question, so we
decided to install Firefox. Not only was the Bing Bar extension
present
upon Firefox's first launch, but so was the Search Helper Extension.

Additional testing determined that the update is only being offered to
those with one of the Microsoft toolbars installed, regardless of
whether they are enabled or disabled. It's unknown how many users
fall
into that scenario, but the toolbars often come bundled with new PCs
and
popular Microsoft downloads.

The worst part of this issue is that Microsoft does not seem to be
aware
of it: a Microsoft spokesperson simply pointed us to the
aforementioned
Microsoft Support page that inaccurately describes the update. We
asked
the company for an explanation of why the extension was installed and
what it does, but have yet to receive a reply.
---------

It was not installed as a "critical" update, it was listed as
an "important" update.

My mistake. It was listed as important - not optional. Which means
it
will likely be downloaded automatically on most systems - without
their
owners knowledge or approval.

Exactly how does it "tamper" with your search functionality?

This is the second time that Microsoft has tried to tinker with
Firefox
on people's PC's. Some people don't like it when new tool bars appear
in their browser.

It updates browser integration for the toolbar, and is only
installed if the toolbar is already installed.

Not true - read above. This firefox add-on is being installed even
when
those systems did not previously have a Bing / MS search add-on
installed.

As usual, you report half-truths, and are only interested in
attacking Microsoft...

Now that you know the full story, are you still sure that this add-on
behavior is desirable for end-users, or is it desirable for Microsoft?
Is it really an important add-on?

Or will you be a Micro$haft appologist and psycophant and believe
otherwise?

Oh I see....if I don't agree with you, I'm an apologist for Microsoft,
or Microshaft as you so childishly put it? It's obvious you're the one
with an agenda here.

So far, none of us knows the "full story", and I'd rather reserve
judgment until details of the update are made available, than just start
making unfounded conjecture. So far MS has not given details, which
certainly makes them look bad....something they don't need help doing.

You again made an inaccurate statement, when you wrote:
"Not true - read above. This Firefox add-on is being installed even
when those systems did not previously have a Bing /MS search add-on
installed."

I did "read above" and the article you cited clearly states:
"Additional testing determined that the update is only being offered to
those with one of the Microsoft toolbars installed, regardless of
whether they are enabled or disabled."

The update installs on the "system" into a folder tree that contains the
files for every browser that can install the toolbars and the "search
enhancement". If the toolbar is installed in IE but not in Firefox,
when the update is installed (with the files for both browsers), the
add-on for Firefox is installed from those files. I don't think that's
unreasonable, as otherwise the updater has to snoop into the Firefox
profile folders to determine whether the toolbar is installed in that
particular browser for EACH user profile (Firefox has separate profiles
for each user on the system)....and THEN you would be screaming bloody
murder that the update process was spying into the Firefox profile
folders! So the PROCESS used to install is actually not bad, given the
details of what's involved.

That said, is the update itself needed in the first place? Is it
actually "important" as it is listed? We don't know, because MS hasn't
given any info about it. Why not? Good question. Possibly because the
update is only delivered and installed by the Microsoft Update team, but
was written by the Windows Live Team...which covers all the yeech
Windows Live applications. My Guess is it is far from important, and
doesn't do a darn thing of use for the user.

Graying out the Uninstall button for the add-on? Really bad practice!
Not indicating that it will install the add-on in Firefox, and that it
will even if the toolbar is only installed in IE? REALLY bad practice!

From what I've heard, the MS Update Services team is "looking into" what
this update does....they'll probably have to pull teeth from the Live
team to get answers. Left hand not knowing what Right hand is doing is
typical of large corporations, and MS is especially good at it.

Now, I'm still waiting to hear why you've had nothing to say for years
about the Sun Java Firefox add-on that's installed without warning by
Sun Java updates. It allows Java apps to run in the browser...not in a
sandbox...a potentially large security risk. Yet we hear not a peep
from anyone about that....why is that, I wonder? Because you're not
really interested in bringing real security issues to light, your only
interested in bashing Microsoft.
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009
A+
http://dts-l.net/

.

Thank you for your input Glen. I noticed this was added on to my Mozilla
Firefox in Windows Vista and I do not even use their toolbar but do use a few
of the Windows Live Services with Windows Vista so I guess it got tagged as a
download. I manually updated it and did see it as an important update.
Anyway, I have currently disabled it but was surprised that the unistall
button is grayed out unlike the Java Console that will let you unistall it
and not just easily disable it. It should certainly have been offered as an
optional update and also allow for easy unistall for the user. This is a
good example of why people should not use automatic updates and regard all
updates that are less than critical with a grain of salt before automatically
downloading and installing. I plan to research this some more. Finally,
companies should not add anything else to products other than their own
software in my opinion and this goes not just for Microsoft but also to
Oracle/Sun Java and every other software company, imo.

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/new...s-update-1.ars

"glee" wrote:

Microsoft Basher "98 Guy" excerpted only the parts he
wanted to respond to, and replied in message
...
glee wrote:

Speaking of a criminal organization, how many of you are aware
that Microsoft's last auto-update package delivered a firefox
add-on that tampers with your browser's search functionality

The Firefox extension and IE add-on from the "Search Enhancement"
update were only installed on systems that had the Live, MSN, or
Bing browser toolbar installed, since it is part of an update that
involves those toolbars.

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/new...bar-update.ars

---------
On one of our Windows systems, we had the Windows Live Toolbar
installed
for Internet Explorer but not for Firefox. Nevertheless, installing
this update added the add-on/extension to both browsers without
telling
us that it would do so. On our second system, we had the Bing Bar
installed for Internet Explorer, but it was disabled. Firefox was not
installed. This system already had the update in question, so we
decided to install Firefox. Not only was the Bing Bar extension
present
upon Firefox's first launch, but so was the Search Helper Extension.

Additional testing determined that the update is only being offered to
those with one of the Microsoft toolbars installed, regardless of
whether they are enabled or disabled. It's unknown how many users
fall
into that scenario, but the toolbars often come bundled with new PCs
and
popular Microsoft downloads.

The worst part of this issue is that Microsoft does not seem to be
aware
of it: a Microsoft spokesperson simply pointed us to the
aforementioned
Microsoft Support page that inaccurately describes the update. We
asked
the company for an explanation of why the extension was installed and
what it does, but have yet to receive a reply.
---------

It was not installed as a "critical" update, it was listed as
an "important" update.

My mistake. It was listed as important - not optional. Which means
it
will likely be downloaded automatically on most systems - without
their
owners knowledge or approval.

Exactly how does it "tamper" with your search functionality?

This is the second time that Microsoft has tried to tinker with
Firefox
on people's PC's. Some people don't like it when new tool bars appear
in their browser.

It updates browser integration for the toolbar, and is only
installed if the toolbar is already installed.

Not true - read above. This firefox add-on is being installed even
when
those systems did not previously have a Bing / MS search add-on
installed.

As usual, you report half-truths, and are only interested in
attacking Microsoft...

Now that you know the full story, are you still sure that this add-on
behavior is desirable for end-users, or is it desirable for Microsoft?
Is it really an important add-on?

Or will you be a Micro$haft appologist and psycophant and believe
otherwise?

Oh I see....if I don't agree with you, I'm an apologist for Microsoft,
or Microshaft as you so childishly put it? It's obvious you're the one
with an agenda here.

So far, none of us knows the "full story", and I'd rather reserve
judgment until details of the update are made available, than just start
making unfounded conjecture. So far MS has not given details, which
certainly makes them look bad....something they don't need help doing.

You again made an inaccurate statement, when you wrote:
"Not true - read above. This Firefox add-on is being installed even
when those systems did not previously have a Bing /MS search add-on
installed."

I did "read above" and the article you cited clearly states:
"Additional testing determined that the update is only being offered to
those with one of the Microsoft toolbars installed, regardless of
whether they are enabled or disabled."

The update installs on the "system" into a folder tree that contains the
files for every browser that can install the toolbars and the "search
enhancement". If the toolbar is installed in IE but not in Firefox,
when the update is installed (with the files for both browsers), the
add-on for Firefox is installed from those files. I don't think that's
unreasonable, as otherwise the updater has to snoop into the Firefox
profile folders to determine whether the toolbar is installed in that
particular browser for EACH user profile (Firefox has separate profiles
for each user on the system)....and THEN you would be screaming bloody
murder that the update process was spying into the Firefox profile
folders! So the PROCESS used to install is actually not bad, given the
details of what's involved.

That said, is the update itself needed in the first place? Is it
actually "important" as it is listed? We don't know, because MS hasn't
given any info about it. Why not? Good question. Possibly because the
update is only delivered and installed by the Microsoft Update team, but
was written by the Windows Live Team...which covers all the yeech
Windows Live applications. My Guess is it is far from important, and
doesn't do a darn thing of use for the user.

Graying out the Uninstall button for the add-on? Really bad practice!
Not indicating that it will install the add-on in Firefox, and that it
will even if the toolbar is only installed in IE? REALLY bad practice!

From what I've heard, the MS Update Services team is "looking into" what
this update does....they'll probably have to pull teeth from the Live
team to get answers. Left hand not knowing what Right hand is doing is
typical of large corporations, and MS is especially good at it.

Now, I'm still waiting to hear why you've had nothing to say for years
about the Sun Java Firefox add-on that's installed without warning by
Sun Java updates. It allows Java apps to run in the browser...not in a
sandbox...a potentially large security risk. Yet we hear not a peep
from anyone about that....why is that, I wonder? Because you're not
really interested in bringing real security issues to light, your only
interested in bashing Microsoft.
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009
A+
http://dts-l.net/

.

Thank you for your input Glen. I noticed this was added on to my Mozilla
Firefox in Windows Vista and I do not even use their toolbar but do use a few
of the Windows Live Services with Windows Vista so I guess it got tagged as a
download. I manually updated it and did see it as an important update.
Anyway, I have currently disabled it but was surprised that the unistall
button is grayed out unlike the Java Console that will let you unistall it
and not just easily disable it. It should certainly have been offered as an
optional update and also allow for easy unistall for the user. This is a
good example of why people should not use automatic updates and regard all
updates that are less than critical with a grain of salt before automatically
downloading and installing. I plan to research this some more. Finally,
companies should not add anything else to products other than their own
software in my opinion and this goes not just for Microsoft but also to
Oracle/Sun Java and every other software company, imo.

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/new...s-update-1.ars

"Dan" wrote in message
...
snip

Thank you for your input Glen. I noticed this was added on to my
Mozilla
Firefox in Windows Vista and I do not even use their toolbar but do
use a few
of the Windows Live Services with Windows Vista so I guess it got
tagged as a
download. I manually updated it and did see it as an important
update.
Anyway, I have currently disabled it but was surprised that the
unistall
button is grayed out unlike the Java Console that will let you
unistall it
and not just easily disable it. It should certainly have been offered
as an
optional update and also allow for easy unistall for the user. This
is a
good example of why people should not use automatic updates and regard
all
updates that are less than critical with a grain of salt before
automatically
downloading and installing. I plan to research this some more.
Finally,
companies should not add anything else to products other than their
own
software in my opinion and this goes not just for Microsoft but also
to
Oracle/Sun Java and every other software company, imo.

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/new...s-update-1.ars

Thanks for the link, Dan.....at least it gives a little more info on
what the update is for.

Although it would be nice if no updates were installed by any company to
any software but their own, it can't work out that way. If Sun Java is
installed, components have to be added to the installed web browsers,
because Java will be implemented in those browsers. In this case, a
toolbar is installed in the browser, and updates to that toolbar may add
components to the browser.
The two most prevalent browser toolbars, Google Toolbar and Yahoo
Toolbar, add items not only to the browsers but also to Windows startup
axis, run regular updaters, and if enabled send info back to Google or
Yahoo....and no one finds this intrusive?
It amazes me that people get up in arms over a browser add-on that
supports an installed toolbar from Microsoft, but ignore similar or
worse behavior from Sun, Google or Yahoo.
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009
A+
http://dts-l.net/

"Dan" wrote in message
...
snip

Thank you for your input Glen. I noticed this was added on to my
Mozilla
Firefox in Windows Vista and I do not even use their toolbar but do
use a few
of the Windows Live Services with Windows Vista so I guess it got
tagged as a
download. I manually updated it and did see it as an important
update.
Anyway, I have currently disabled it but was surprised that the
unistall
button is grayed out unlike the Java Console that will let you
unistall it
and not just easily disable it. It should certainly have been offered
as an
optional update and also allow for easy unistall for the user. This
is a
good example of why people should not use automatic updates and regard
all
updates that are less than critical with a grain of salt before
automatically
downloading and installing. I plan to research this some more.
Finally,
companies should not add anything else to products other than their
own
software in my opinion and this goes not just for Microsoft but also
to
Oracle/Sun Java and every other software company, imo.

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/new...s-update-1.ars

Thanks for the link, Dan.....at least it gives a little more info on
what the update is for.

Although it would be nice if no updates were installed by any company to
any software but their own, it can't work out that way. If Sun Java is
installed, components have to be added to the installed web browsers,
because Java will be implemented in those browsers. In this case, a
toolbar is installed in the browser, and updates to that toolbar may add
components to the browser.
The two most prevalent browser toolbars, Google Toolbar and Yahoo
Toolbar, add items not only to the browsers but also to Windows startup
axis, run regular updaters, and if enabled send info back to Google or
Yahoo....and no one finds this intrusive?
It amazes me that people get up in arms over a browser add-on that
supports an installed toolbar from Microsoft, but ignore similar or
worse behavior from Sun, Google or Yahoo.
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009
A+
http://dts-l.net/

To Log-In is the purpose!

"Rasta Robert" wrote in message
...
On 2010-06-12, Hot-text wrote:
I till you I Add and Remove newsgroups all the time and Microsoft will
begin closing newsgroups
and not the server on Microsoft

How likely is it that servers will be left running that
serve no purpose (and no newsgroups) anymore whatsoever?

would you to read it one more time and till me were you is the WORD
SERVER::
closing

Get someone to read the article on the web site below :-
http://www.microsoft.com/communities...s/default.mspx
"Beginning in June 2010, Microsoft will begin closing newsgroups
and migrating users to Microsoft forums that include Microsoft
Answers, TechNet and MSDN."


--
http://rr.www.cistron.nl/ -!- http://www.rr.dds.nl/
http://www.dread.demon.nl/

To Log-In is the purpose!

"Rasta Robert" wrote in message
...
On 2010-06-12, Hot-text wrote:
I till you I Add and Remove newsgroups all the time and Microsoft will
begin closing newsgroups
and not the server on Microsoft

How likely is it that servers will be left running that
serve no purpose (and no newsgroups) anymore whatsoever?

would you to read it one more time and till me were you is the WORD
SERVER::
closing

Get someone to read the article on the web site below :-
http://www.microsoft.com/communities...s/default.mspx
"Beginning in June 2010, Microsoft will begin closing newsgroups
and migrating users to Microsoft forums that include Microsoft
Answers, TechNet and MSDN."


--
http://rr.www.cistron.nl/ -!- http://www.rr.dds.nl/
http://www.dread.demon.nl/

Sunny with the last time you been to ftp.microsoft.com for there no PUB
there no more! But the
FTP SERVER is up and running!

But there will be a list of news groups there and the point is to Log-In to
the news server
For it will be Close to the public!


" Sunny" wrote in message
...

"Hot-text" wrote in message
...
I till you I Add and Remove newsgroups all the time and Microsoft will
begin closing newsgroups
and not the server on Microsoft

would you to read it one more time and till me were you is the WORD
SERVER:: closing

What is a "WORD SERVER" ?
If there are no news groups on a Microsoft "NEWS SERVER" why would it
exist ?

When all the news groups are "removed" there is no point in having a news
server.

Sunny with the last time you been to ftp.microsoft.com for there no PUB
there no more! But the
FTP SERVER is up and running!

But there will be a list of news groups there and the point is to Log-In to
the news server
For it will be Close to the public!


" Sunny" wrote in message
...

"Hot-text" wrote in message
...
I till you I Add and Remove newsgroups all the time and Microsoft will
begin closing newsgroups
and not the server on Microsoft

would you to read it one more time and till me were you is the WORD
SERVER:: closing

What is a "WORD SERVER" ?
If there are no news groups on a Microsoft "NEWS SERVER" why would it
exist ?

When all the news groups are "removed" there is no point in having a news
server.

"Hot-text" wrote in message
...
Sunny with the last time you been to ftp.microsoft.com for there no PUB
there no more! But the
FTP SERVER is up and running!

But there will be a list of news groups there and the point is to Log-In
to the news server
For it will be Close to the public!

FFS, An FTP Server is not a News Server.
The FTP Server is accessed using a browser
For the last time, Why would anyone try to access a News server, when
there is NOTHING ON IT ?
What use is an FTP server that is closed to the public ?
Please try to keep up.



" Sunny" wrote in message
...

"Hot-text" wrote in message
...
I till you I Add and Remove newsgroups all the time and Microsoft will
begin closing newsgroups
and not the server on Microsoft

would you to read it one more time and till me were you is the WORD
SERVER:: closing

What is a "WORD SERVER" ?
If there are no news groups on a Microsoft "NEWS SERVER" why would it
exist ?

When all the news groups are "removed" there is no point in having a
news server.