Working with BING

You and others suggested the same and similar things up near the beginning
of that Everest thread (and in prior threads.) Why you didn't INSIST on Mike
following through on those suggestions before launching into the almost
incomprehensible thread that followed is what boggles my mind.

My purpose in trying to limit this thread is to *focus* on the correct
procedures, not to have this thread end up like the other one.

--

Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
http://grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

"MEB" meb@not wrote in message
...
Well since Franc broke his word, I'll break mine for this direction only.
All of the above sounds strikingly similar to:

From: "MEB" meb@not
References:




Subject: Hangs on POST screen
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 22:16:16 -0400
Keywords: checking a hard drive,hard drive failure,unable to access hard
drive
Lines: 116
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409
Message-ID:
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
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Path: TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl
Xref: TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion:813466

Okay, Mike, humor me:

Apparently you have the floppy drive setup per your "the floppy drive
light
came on", (did you hear the seek noise also?) If not you still may have a
floppy problem. Re-check its cabling and connections.

I know you don't want to disconnect cables and such, so, try this (you did
check the battery didn't you, per your previous post and my posting?):

1. go back into the bios reset all channels (hard drives) to "auto"
detect,
e.g. remove the hard settings.
Save and try the startup again with the disk in the floppy drive. (some
bios
/ hard drive configurations do not like "hard" settings) If it starts, go
to
5.

2. If no start: disconnect the power cord, either from the back of the
comp
or from the receptacle, ground yourself to metal on the case to remove
static before disconnecting; (re-)open the case; check your
cables/ribbons
first - just in case; if none loose, and all connections appear tight,
then
(here's the dig) disconnect the hard drive from it's ribbon/cable.
Reconnect
the disk to the secondary hard drive connection, get the stripe/indicator
set properly on the ribbon/cable on the board and drive, reconnect the
comp
to electric. Make sure that it is also set to auto detect in the bios.
Restart the computer with the disk in the floppy drive. If it starts (gets
to the dos prompt); go to 3. If not go to 4.

3. Check the hard disk with fdisk /status. Look for first partition and it
is active. If so , shut down the computer, disconnect the electric again
after grounding yourself to a safe metallic part of the case; move the
secondary hard drive cable/ribbon to the primary/first connector. Replace
the old primary cable/ribbon with a new one, put it on the secondary.
Check
any connections and cards you may have bumped or moved for proper seating;
reconnect the power connection; retest via fdisk /status. If still
working,
GO to 5. If it shows no active partition or some other failure, go to 5.

4. If the computer will not respond with the changed hard drive ribbon
cables, you may have intermittent or permanent hard drive failure.
As you had access the disk at least once (the NTLDR failure) and you have
now checked all connections and the bios/cmos again, it's time to
determine
whether the disk should be replaced, and saved or not.

5. Download from the net, one or two of these tools to check the hard
disk:

hard drive tools and recovery - This tool will probably be sufficient for
the preliminary testing of the hard drive, make sure you do the extended
search for partitions during the testing process.
http://www.cgsecurity.org/
Testdisk can be used to recover old MBR from (hidden) backups on the hard
disk and recovery may work from there with this tool or others..
http://www.cgsecurity.org/testdisk-6.3.dos.zip comes with some basic and
extended info,,

http://www.hdat2.com/ Another tool which supplies the abilities you need
to
test the disk.
hdat2 - DOS hard drive testing, diagnostics, and repair tool. Supports
PATA
[(older disks) ATA, IDE, EIDE, DMA, UDMA] SATA, SCSI, RAID, and USB
drives.
Pick up the hdat2en_4_51.pdf on the site.

Hard Drive Guru - Yet another tool which will test disks and more.
http://www.hddguru.com
MHDD - hard drive management
English documentation has been moved to http://mhdd.com
English FAQ: http://mhddsoftware.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4261

6. Whichever one(s) you pick, you will have, and can supply, additional
information for the parties helping to diagnose your problem. Do not be
shocked if you find a viable partition of XP - NTFS still on the hard
disk,
and many of its now corrupted folders and files.

7. Post back what you find out about the disk, BEFORE re-trying fdisking
and
formatting, or installing the operating system.

--
MEB

signature removed
_______________

END PRIOR POST

"ms" wrote in message
...
| "dadiOH" wrote in news:OByuwoE2GHA.4752
| @TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl:
|
| ms wrote:
|
| Hate to start disconnecting and reconnecting. It did work fine. I
| feel sure the A drive is OK, the BIOS never gets to look for it.
|
| Looking at the above, same old question. How to get past BIOS
| screen and see the A prompt,
|
| The floppy drive should be rattled right after the BIOS memory check.
| In addition, it should be listed in the devices found by the BIOS. Is
| it being rattled? Is it listed? How many BIOS screens do you
| normally have? Finally, doesn't anyone around here ever snip???????
|
|
| Thanks, a good tip.
|
| Yes, the floppy drive light came on, drive A was checked, during the
BIOS
| check. As you can see from my BIOS data, the floppy drive is correctly
| listed in BIOS.
|
| As to snipping, if they do it, I do it. But I assume many here don't as
| they keep track of earlier responses that way.
|
| ms= Mike Sa



--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/
BLOG http://peoplescounsel.spaces.live.com/ Public Notice or the "real
world"

"Most people, sometime in their lives, stumble across truth.
Most jump up, brush themselves off, and hurry on about their business as
if
nothing had happen." Winston Churchill
Or to put it another way:
Morpheus can offer you the two pills;
but only you can choose whether you take the red pill or the blue one.
_______________

"Gary S. Terhune" wrote in message
...
| That's OK, I got it. It's still early, though... s
|
| --
|
| Gary S. Terhune
| MS-MVP Shell/User
| http://grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
| http://grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
|
| "dadiOH" wrote in message
| ...
|
| dadiOH wrote:
| Gary S. Terhune wrote:
| All the evidence points to something wrong in hardware. Normally
| I'd say, "It's the HDD. Get a new one. But just to be sure, try it
| on a different controller with a different cable."
|
| Or even in another computer - you do have one IIRC - as a second
| drive. If it works fine in computer #2 you know that some other
| hardware in computer #1 is flaky; if it doesn't work in computer #2
| you know to toss the drive.
|
| Meant for ms, not you Gary...I was piggy backing.
|
| dadiOH
| ______________
|
|
|
|

You have them, now you try to get him to follow them.
I was overruled by those who thought they knew better, that thought they
were experts.
If you want to reset the disk, then look to those tools. You WILL have to
hard reset that drive.

Again, good luck, I think I've about had my fill of this newsgroup.

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/
BLOG http://peoplescounsel.spaces.live.com/ Public Notice or the "real
world"

"Most people, sometime in their lives, stumble across truth.
Most jump up, brush themselves off, and hurry on about their business as if
nothing had happen." Winston Churchill
Or to put it another way:
Morpheus can offer you the two pills;
but only you can choose whether you take the red pill or the blue one.
_______________

"Gary S. Terhune" wrote in message
...
| You and others suggested the same and similar things up near the beginning
| of that Everest thread (and in prior threads.) Why you didn't INSIST on
Mike
| following through on those suggestions before launching into the almost
| incomprehensible thread that followed is what boggles my mind.
|
| My purpose in trying to limit this thread is to *focus* on the correct
| procedures, not to have this thread end up like the other one.
|
| --
|
| Gary S. Terhune
| MS-MVP Shell/User
| http://grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
| http://grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
|
| "MEB" meb@not wrote in message
| ...
| Well since Franc broke his word, I'll break mine for this direction
only.
| All of the above sounds strikingly similar to:
|
| From: "MEB" meb@not
| References:
|
|
|

|
| Subject: Hangs on POST screen
| Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 22:16:16 -0400
| Keywords: checking a hard drive,hard drive failure,unable to access hard
| drive
| Lines: 116
| X-Priority: 3
| X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
| X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409
| X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409
| Message-ID:
| Newsgroups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
| NNTP-Posting-Host: AC92CB70.ipt.aol.com 172.146.203.112
| Path: TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl
| Xref: TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion:813466
|
| Okay, Mike, humor me:
|
| Apparently you have the floppy drive setup per your "the floppy drive
| light
| came on", (did you hear the seek noise also?) If not you still may have
a
| floppy problem. Re-check its cabling and connections.
|
| I know you don't want to disconnect cables and such, so, try this (you
did
| check the battery didn't you, per your previous post and my posting?):
|
| 1. go back into the bios reset all channels (hard drives) to "auto"
| detect,
| e.g. remove the hard settings.
| Save and try the startup again with the disk in the floppy drive. (some
| bios
| / hard drive configurations do not like "hard" settings) If it starts,
go
| to
| 5.
|
| 2. If no start: disconnect the power cord, either from the back of the
| comp
| or from the receptacle, ground yourself to metal on the case to remove
| static before disconnecting; (re-)open the case; check your
| cables/ribbons
| first - just in case; if none loose, and all connections appear tight,
| then
| (here's the dig) disconnect the hard drive from it's ribbon/cable.
| Reconnect
| the disk to the secondary hard drive connection, get the
stripe/indicator
| set properly on the ribbon/cable on the board and drive, reconnect the
| comp
| to electric. Make sure that it is also set to auto detect in the bios.
| Restart the computer with the disk in the floppy drive. If it starts
(gets
| to the dos prompt); go to 3. If not go to 4.
|
| 3. Check the hard disk with fdisk /status. Look for first partition and
it
| is active. If so , shut down the computer, disconnect the electric again
| after grounding yourself to a safe metallic part of the case; move the
| secondary hard drive cable/ribbon to the primary/first connector.
Replace
| the old primary cable/ribbon with a new one, put it on the secondary.
| Check
| any connections and cards you may have bumped or moved for proper
seating;
| reconnect the power connection; retest via fdisk /status. If still
| working,
| GO to 5. If it shows no active partition or some other failure, go to 5.
|
| 4. If the computer will not respond with the changed hard drive ribbon
| cables, you may have intermittent or permanent hard drive failure.
| As you had access the disk at least once (the NTLDR failure) and you
have
| now checked all connections and the bios/cmos again, it's time to
| determine
| whether the disk should be replaced, and saved or not.
|
| 5. Download from the net, one or two of these tools to check the hard
| disk:
|
| hard drive tools and recovery - This tool will probably be sufficient
for
| the preliminary testing of the hard drive, make sure you do the extended
| search for partitions during the testing process.
| http://www.cgsecurity.org/
| Testdisk can be used to recover old MBR from (hidden) backups on the
hard
| disk and recovery may work from there with this tool or others..
| http://www.cgsecurity.org/testdisk-6.3.dos.zip comes with some basic and
| extended info,,
|
| http://www.hdat2.com/ Another tool which supplies the abilities you need
| to
| test the disk.
| hdat2 - DOS hard drive testing, diagnostics, and repair tool. Supports
| PATA
| [(older disks) ATA, IDE, EIDE, DMA, UDMA] SATA, SCSI, RAID, and USB
| drives.
| Pick up the hdat2en_4_51.pdf on the site.
|
| Hard Drive Guru - Yet another tool which will test disks and more.
| http://www.hddguru.com
| MHDD - hard drive management
| English documentation has been moved to http://mhdd.com
| English FAQ: http://mhddsoftware.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4261
|
| 6. Whichever one(s) you pick, you will have, and can supply, additional
| information for the parties helping to diagnose your problem. Do not be
| shocked if you find a viable partition of XP - NTFS still on the hard
| disk,
| and many of its now corrupted folders and files.
|
| 7. Post back what you find out about the disk, BEFORE re-trying fdisking
| and
| formatting, or installing the operating system.
|
| --
| MEB
|
| signature removed
| _______________
|
| END PRIOR POST
|
| "ms" wrote in message
| ...
| | "dadiOH" wrote in news:OByuwoE2GHA.4752
| | @TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl:
| |
| | ms wrote:
| |
| | Hate to start disconnecting and reconnecting. It did work fine. I
| | feel sure the A drive is OK, the BIOS never gets to look for it.
| |
| | Looking at the above, same old question. How to get past BIOS
| | screen and see the A prompt,
| |
| | The floppy drive should be rattled right after the BIOS memory
check.
| | In addition, it should be listed in the devices found by the BIOS.
Is
| | it being rattled? Is it listed? How many BIOS screens do you
| | normally have? Finally, doesn't anyone around here ever snip???????
| |
| |
| | Thanks, a good tip.
| |
| | Yes, the floppy drive light came on, drive A was checked, during the
| BIOS
| | check. As you can see from my BIOS data, the floppy drive is correctly
| | listed in BIOS.
| |
| | As to snipping, if they do it, I do it. But I assume many here don't
as
| | they keep track of earlier responses that way.
| |
| | ms= Mike Sa
|
|
|
| --
| MEB
| http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/
| BLOG http://peoplescounsel.spaces.live.com/ Public Notice or the "real
| world"
|
| "Most people, sometime in their lives, stumble across truth.
| Most jump up, brush themselves off, and hurry on about their business as
| if
| nothing had happen." Winston Churchill
| Or to put it another way:
| Morpheus can offer you the two pills;
| but only you can choose whether you take the red pill or the blue one.
| _______________
|
| "Gary S. Terhune" wrote in message
| ...
| | That's OK, I got it. It's still early, though... s
| |
| | --
| |
| | Gary S. Terhune
| | MS-MVP Shell/User
| | http://grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
| | http://grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
| |
| | "dadiOH" wrote in message
| | ...
| |
| | dadiOH wrote:
| | Gary S. Terhune wrote:
| | All the evidence points to something wrong in hardware. Normally
| | I'd say, "It's the HDD. Get a new one. But just to be sure, try it
| | on a different controller with a different cable."
| |
| | Or even in another computer - you do have one IIRC - as a second
| | drive. If it works fine in computer #2 you know that some other
| | hardware in computer #1 is flaky; if it doesn't work in computer #2
| | you know to toss the drive.
| |
| | Meant for ms, not you Gary...I was piggy backing.
| |
| | dadiOH
| | ______________
| |
| |
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
|

All I was referring to was the need to check the other hardware components.
I do not agree that the drive was in any way "damaged" by anything suggested
here, or that it needs "resetting". As I understand it, the machine was
working fine until some "corruption" occurred, at which point the case
landed here. Nothing I've seen convinces me that anything has changed since
then. Either some other hardware component has gone belly up (or simply come
loose) or the HDD is plain broke.

--

Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
http://grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

"MEB" meb@not wrote in message
...
You have them, now you try to get him to follow them.
I was overruled by those who thought they knew better, that thought they
were experts.
If you want to reset the disk, then look to those tools. You WILL have to
hard reset that drive.

Again, good luck, I think I've about had my fill of this newsgroup.

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/
BLOG http://peoplescounsel.spaces.live.com/ Public Notice or the "real
world"

"Most people, sometime in their lives, stumble across truth.
Most jump up, brush themselves off, and hurry on about their business as
if
nothing had happen." Winston Churchill
Or to put it another way:
Morpheus can offer you the two pills;
but only you can choose whether you take the red pill or the blue one.
_______________

"Gary S. Terhune" wrote in message
...
| You and others suggested the same and similar things up near the
beginning
| of that Everest thread (and in prior threads.) Why you didn't INSIST on
Mike
| following through on those suggestions before launching into the almost
| incomprehensible thread that followed is what boggles my mind.
|
| My purpose in trying to limit this thread is to *focus* on the correct
| procedures, not to have this thread end up like the other one.
|
| --
|
| Gary S. Terhune
| MS-MVP Shell/User
| http://grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
| http://grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
|
| "MEB" meb@not wrote in message
| ...
| Well since Franc broke his word, I'll break mine for this direction
only.
| All of the above sounds strikingly similar to:
|
| From: "MEB" meb@not
| References:
|
|
|


|

| Subject: Hangs on POST screen
| Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 22:16:16 -0400
| Keywords: checking a hard drive,hard drive failure,unable to access
hard
| drive
| Lines: 116
| X-Priority: 3
| X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
| X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409
| X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409
| Message-ID:
| Newsgroups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
| NNTP-Posting-Host: AC92CB70.ipt.aol.com 172.146.203.112
| Path: TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl
| Xref: TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl
microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion:813466
|
| Okay, Mike, humor me:
|
| Apparently you have the floppy drive setup per your "the floppy drive
| light
| came on", (did you hear the seek noise also?) If not you still may
have
a
| floppy problem. Re-check its cabling and connections.
|
| I know you don't want to disconnect cables and such, so, try this (you
did
| check the battery didn't you, per your previous post and my posting?):
|
| 1. go back into the bios reset all channels (hard drives) to "auto"
| detect,
| e.g. remove the hard settings.
| Save and try the startup again with the disk in the floppy drive.
(some
| bios
| / hard drive configurations do not like "hard" settings) If it starts,
go
| to
| 5.
|
| 2. If no start: disconnect the power cord, either from the back of the
| comp
| or from the receptacle, ground yourself to metal on the case to remove
| static before disconnecting; (re-)open the case; check your
| cables/ribbons
| first - just in case; if none loose, and all connections appear tight,
| then
| (here's the dig) disconnect the hard drive from it's ribbon/cable.
| Reconnect
| the disk to the secondary hard drive connection, get the
stripe/indicator
| set properly on the ribbon/cable on the board and drive, reconnect the
| comp
| to electric. Make sure that it is also set to auto detect in the bios.
| Restart the computer with the disk in the floppy drive. If it starts
(gets
| to the dos prompt); go to 3. If not go to 4.
|
| 3. Check the hard disk with fdisk /status. Look for first partition
and
it
| is active. If so , shut down the computer, disconnect the electric
again
| after grounding yourself to a safe metallic part of the case; move the
| secondary hard drive cable/ribbon to the primary/first connector.
Replace
| the old primary cable/ribbon with a new one, put it on the secondary.
| Check
| any connections and cards you may have bumped or moved for proper
seating;
| reconnect the power connection; retest via fdisk /status. If still
| working,
| GO to 5. If it shows no active partition or some other failure, go to
5.
|
| 4. If the computer will not respond with the changed hard drive ribbon
| cables, you may have intermittent or permanent hard drive failure.
| As you had access the disk at least once (the NTLDR failure) and you
have
| now checked all connections and the bios/cmos again, it's time to
| determine
| whether the disk should be replaced, and saved or not.
|
| 5. Download from the net, one or two of these tools to check the hard
| disk:
|
| hard drive tools and recovery - This tool will probably be sufficient
for
| the preliminary testing of the hard drive, make sure you do the
extended
| search for partitions during the testing process.
| http://www.cgsecurity.org/
| Testdisk can be used to recover old MBR from (hidden) backups on the
hard
| disk and recovery may work from there with this tool or others..
| http://www.cgsecurity.org/testdisk-6.3.dos.zip comes with some basic
and
| extended info,,
|
| http://www.hdat2.com/ Another tool which supplies the abilities you
need
| to
| test the disk.
| hdat2 - DOS hard drive testing, diagnostics, and repair tool. Supports
| PATA
| [(older disks) ATA, IDE, EIDE, DMA, UDMA] SATA, SCSI, RAID, and USB
| drives.
| Pick up the hdat2en_4_51.pdf on the site.
|
| Hard Drive Guru - Yet another tool which will test disks and more.
| http://www.hddguru.com
| MHDD - hard drive management
| English documentation has been moved to http://mhdd.com
| English FAQ: http://mhddsoftware.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4261
|
| 6. Whichever one(s) you pick, you will have, and can supply,
additional
| information for the parties helping to diagnose your problem. Do not
be
| shocked if you find a viable partition of XP - NTFS still on the hard
| disk,
| and many of its now corrupted folders and files.
|
| 7. Post back what you find out about the disk, BEFORE re-trying
fdisking
| and
| formatting, or installing the operating system.
|
| --
| MEB
|
| signature removed
| _______________
|
| END PRIOR POST
|
| "ms" wrote in message
| ...
| | "dadiOH" wrote in news:OByuwoE2GHA.4752
| | @TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl:
| |
| | ms wrote:
| |
| | Hate to start disconnecting and reconnecting. It did work fine. I
| | feel sure the A drive is OK, the BIOS never gets to look for it.
| |
| | Looking at the above, same old question. How to get past BIOS
| | screen and see the A prompt,
| |
| | The floppy drive should be rattled right after the BIOS memory
check.
| | In addition, it should be listed in the devices found by the BIOS.
Is
| | it being rattled? Is it listed? How many BIOS screens do you
| | normally have? Finally, doesn't anyone around here ever
snip???????
| |
| |
| | Thanks, a good tip.
| |
| | Yes, the floppy drive light came on, drive A was checked, during the
| BIOS
| | check. As you can see from my BIOS data, the floppy drive is
correctly
| | listed in BIOS.
| |
| | As to snipping, if they do it, I do it. But I assume many here don't
as
| | they keep track of earlier responses that way.
| |
| | ms= Mike Sa
|
|
|
| --
| MEB
| http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/
| BLOG http://peoplescounsel.spaces.live.com/ Public Notice or the "real
| world"
|
| "Most people, sometime in their lives, stumble across truth.
| Most jump up, brush themselves off, and hurry on about their business
as
| if
| nothing had happen." Winston Churchill
| Or to put it another way:
| Morpheus can offer you the two pills;
| but only you can choose whether you take the red pill or the blue one.
| _______________
|
| "Gary S. Terhune" wrote in message
| ...
| | That's OK, I got it. It's still early, though... s
| |
| | --
| |
| | Gary S. Terhune
| | MS-MVP Shell/User
| | http://grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
| | http://grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
| |
| | "dadiOH" wrote in message
| | ...
| |
| | dadiOH wrote:
| | Gary S. Terhune wrote:
| | All the evidence points to something wrong in hardware. Normally
| | I'd say, "It's the HDD. Get a new one. But just to be sure, try
it
| | on a different controller with a different cable."
| |
| | Or even in another computer - you do have one IIRC - as a second
| | drive. If it works fine in computer #2 you know that some other
| | hardware in computer #1 is flaky; if it doesn't work in computer
#2
| | you know to toss the drive.
| |
| | Meant for ms, not you Gary...I was piggy backing.
| |
| | dadiOH
| | ______________
| |
| |
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
|

To clarify: Mike did *not* follow your steps 1. & 2. To have then continued
on to 3, 4, etc., was contraindicated, and *that's* where the real problems
started. I'm not going to get back into that same argument about the tools
you suggested and especially not about your understanding of the way disks
work. Other more knowledgable people than I have already put the lie to most
of what you claim to be true. (And if you eventually prove otherwise in
*those* threads, feel free to update this one. You certainly haven't done so
to date. All you've done is make wild claims and then sit back and watch
others prove, *again* that you're wrong. Frankly, Jeff's patience, in
particular, amazes me.)

The purpose of *this* thread is to get Mike to start back at the beginning
with steps 1 and 2 (and a perhaps few others that do *not* include
additional scans of the HDD.) The variety of results from BING and FDISK
pretty much prove that if it *is* the drive, it's certainly nothing a
"reset" would fix (whatever that is.) If that were the case, the results
from BING partitioning would be repeatable. They're not.

Fortunately, Mike seems to have gotten the message. Let's see where that
takes him, OK?

--

Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
http://grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

"MEB" meb@not wrote in message
...
You have them, now you try to get him to follow them.
I was overruled by those who thought they knew better, that thought they
were experts.
If you want to reset the disk, then look to those tools. You WILL have to
hard reset that drive.

Again, good luck, I think I've about had my fill of this newsgroup.

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/
BLOG http://peoplescounsel.spaces.live.com/ Public Notice or the "real
world"

"Most people, sometime in their lives, stumble across truth.
Most jump up, brush themselves off, and hurry on about their business as
if
nothing had happen." Winston Churchill
Or to put it another way:
Morpheus can offer you the two pills;
but only you can choose whether you take the red pill or the blue one.
_______________

"Gary S. Terhune" wrote in message
...
| You and others suggested the same and similar things up near the
beginning
| of that Everest thread (and in prior threads.) Why you didn't INSIST on
Mike
| following through on those suggestions before launching into the almost
| incomprehensible thread that followed is what boggles my mind.
|
| My purpose in trying to limit this thread is to *focus* on the correct
| procedures, not to have this thread end up like the other one.
|
| --
|
| Gary S. Terhune
| MS-MVP Shell/User
| http://grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
| http://grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
|
| "MEB" meb@not wrote in message
| ...
| Well since Franc broke his word, I'll break mine for this direction
only.
| All of the above sounds strikingly similar to:
|
| From: "MEB" meb@not
| References:
|
|
|


|

| Subject: Hangs on POST screen
| Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 22:16:16 -0400
| Keywords: checking a hard drive,hard drive failure,unable to access
hard
| drive
| Lines: 116
| X-Priority: 3
| X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
| X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409
| X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409
| Message-ID:
| Newsgroups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
| NNTP-Posting-Host: AC92CB70.ipt.aol.com 172.146.203.112
| Path: TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl
| Xref: TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl
microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion:813466
|
| Okay, Mike, humor me:
|
| Apparently you have the floppy drive setup per your "the floppy drive
| light
| came on", (did you hear the seek noise also?) If not you still may
have
a
| floppy problem. Re-check its cabling and connections.
|
| I know you don't want to disconnect cables and such, so, try this (you
did
| check the battery didn't you, per your previous post and my posting?):
|
| 1. go back into the bios reset all channels (hard drives) to "auto"
| detect,
| e.g. remove the hard settings.
| Save and try the startup again with the disk in the floppy drive.
(some
| bios
| / hard drive configurations do not like "hard" settings) If it starts,
go
| to
| 5.
|
| 2. If no start: disconnect the power cord, either from the back of the
| comp
| or from the receptacle, ground yourself to metal on the case to remove
| static before disconnecting; (re-)open the case; check your
| cables/ribbons
| first - just in case; if none loose, and all connections appear tight,
| then
| (here's the dig) disconnect the hard drive from it's ribbon/cable.
| Reconnect
| the disk to the secondary hard drive connection, get the
stripe/indicator
| set properly on the ribbon/cable on the board and drive, reconnect the
| comp
| to electric. Make sure that it is also set to auto detect in the bios.
| Restart the computer with the disk in the floppy drive. If it starts
(gets
| to the dos prompt); go to 3. If not go to 4.
|
| 3. Check the hard disk with fdisk /status. Look for first partition
and
it
| is active. If so , shut down the computer, disconnect the electric
again
| after grounding yourself to a safe metallic part of the case; move the
| secondary hard drive cable/ribbon to the primary/first connector.
Replace
| the old primary cable/ribbon with a new one, put it on the secondary.
| Check
| any connections and cards you may have bumped or moved for proper
seating;
| reconnect the power connection; retest via fdisk /status. If still
| working,
| GO to 5. If it shows no active partition or some other failure, go to
5.
|
| 4. If the computer will not respond with the changed hard drive ribbon
| cables, you may have intermittent or permanent hard drive failure.
| As you had access the disk at least once (the NTLDR failure) and you
have
| now checked all connections and the bios/cmos again, it's time to
| determine
| whether the disk should be replaced, and saved or not.
|
| 5. Download from the net, one or two of these tools to check the hard
| disk:
|
| hard drive tools and recovery - This tool will probably be sufficient
for
| the preliminary testing of the hard drive, make sure you do the
extended
| search for partitions during the testing process.
| http://www.cgsecurity.org/
| Testdisk can be used to recover old MBR from (hidden) backups on the
hard
| disk and recovery may work from there with this tool or others..
| http://www.cgsecurity.org/testdisk-6.3.dos.zip comes with some basic
and
| extended info,,
|
| http://www.hdat2.com/ Another tool which supplies the abilities you
need
| to
| test the disk.
| hdat2 - DOS hard drive testing, diagnostics, and repair tool. Supports
| PATA
| [(older disks) ATA, IDE, EIDE, DMA, UDMA] SATA, SCSI, RAID, and USB
| drives.
| Pick up the hdat2en_4_51.pdf on the site.
|
| Hard Drive Guru - Yet another tool which will test disks and more.
| http://www.hddguru.com
| MHDD - hard drive management
| English documentation has been moved to http://mhdd.com
| English FAQ: http://mhddsoftware.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4261
|
| 6. Whichever one(s) you pick, you will have, and can supply,
additional
| information for the parties helping to diagnose your problem. Do not
be
| shocked if you find a viable partition of XP - NTFS still on the hard
| disk,
| and many of its now corrupted folders and files.
|
| 7. Post back what you find out about the disk, BEFORE re-trying
fdisking
| and
| formatting, or installing the operating system.
|
| --
| MEB
|
| signature removed
| _______________
|
| END PRIOR POST
|
| "ms" wrote in message
| ...
| | "dadiOH" wrote in news:OByuwoE2GHA.4752
| | @TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl:
| |
| | ms wrote:
| |
| | Hate to start disconnecting and reconnecting. It did work fine. I
| | feel sure the A drive is OK, the BIOS never gets to look for it.
| |
| | Looking at the above, same old question. How to get past BIOS
| | screen and see the A prompt,
| |
| | The floppy drive should be rattled right after the BIOS memory
check.
| | In addition, it should be listed in the devices found by the BIOS.
Is
| | it being rattled? Is it listed? How many BIOS screens do you
| | normally have? Finally, doesn't anyone around here ever
snip???????
| |
| |
| | Thanks, a good tip.
| |
| | Yes, the floppy drive light came on, drive A was checked, during the
| BIOS
| | check. As you can see from my BIOS data, the floppy drive is
correctly
| | listed in BIOS.
| |
| | As to snipping, if they do it, I do it. But I assume many here don't
as
| | they keep track of earlier responses that way.
| |
| | ms= Mike Sa
|
|
|
| --
| MEB
| http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/
| BLOG http://peoplescounsel.spaces.live.com/ Public Notice or the "real
| world"
|
| "Most people, sometime in their lives, stumble across truth.
| Most jump up, brush themselves off, and hurry on about their business
as
| if
| nothing had happen." Winston Churchill
| Or to put it another way:
| Morpheus can offer you the two pills;
| but only you can choose whether you take the red pill or the blue one.
| _______________
|
| "Gary S. Terhune" wrote in message
| ...
| | That's OK, I got it. It's still early, though... s
| |
| | --
| |
| | Gary S. Terhune
| | MS-MVP Shell/User
| | http://grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
| | http://grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
| |
| | "dadiOH" wrote in message
| | ...
| |
| | dadiOH wrote:
| | Gary S. Terhune wrote:
| | All the evidence points to something wrong in hardware. Normally
| | I'd say, "It's the HDD. Get a new one. But just to be sure, try
it
| | on a different controller with a different cable."
| |
| | Or even in another computer - you do have one IIRC - as a second
| | drive. If it works fine in computer #2 you know that some other
| | hardware in computer #1 is flaky; if it doesn't work in computer
#2
| | you know to toss the drive.
| |
| | Meant for ms, not you Gary...I was piggy backing.
| |
| | dadiOH
| | ______________
| |
| |
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
|

"MEB" meb@not wrote in message
...

Again, good luck, I think I've about had my fill of this newsgroup.

Heh, didn't even see that line until now. Really, when you debate the way
you do, is it any wonder you're going to get called on it? Every time you've
been asked to provide a *single* reference to prove some claim of yours, or
been asked to detail what tests *you* have performed, you are curiously
silent and instead leap to some other argument that is equally unsound.

Don't worry, as you can probably tell, we've about had our fill of you, too.

--

Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
http://grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

Then think more carefully about this, XP is one of the most carefully craft
boot sector virus created, it just happens to be the OS, now how did they
accomplish their task?

As for Jeff, let's see, he claimed and recommended ZAP and WIPE, then fdisk
and format, those WERE DISCREDITED by others, then the manufactures disk,
DUH, and has STILL not stated what his supposed viewing tool is...

Get real Gary and good bye.

And remember you were told to reset the disk....


--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/
BLOG http://peoplescounsel.spaces.live.com/ Public Notice or the "real
world"

"Most people, sometime in their lives, stumble across truth.
Most jump up, brush themselves off, and hurry on about their business as if
nothing had happen." Winston Churchill
Or to put it another way:
Morpheus can offer you the two pills;
but only you can choose whether you take the red pill or the blue one.
_______________

"Gary S. Terhune" wrote in message
...
| "MEB" meb@not wrote in message
| ...
|
| Again, good luck, I think I've about had my fill of this newsgroup.
|
| Heh, didn't even see that line until now. Really, when you debate the way
| you do, is it any wonder you're going to get called on it? Every time
you've
| been asked to provide a *single* reference to prove some claim of yours,
or
| been asked to detail what tests *you* have performed, you are curiously
| silent and instead leap to some other argument that is equally unsound.
|
| Don't worry, as you can probably tell, we've about had our fill of you,
too.
|
| --
|
| Gary S. Terhune
| MS-MVP Shell/User
| http://grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
| http://grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
|
|
|

When *you* can answer a single question put to you, *then* I'll consider
your own complaints on that regard. Hell, you haven't even answered the one
I put to you in this thread.

Quote:
From what I read, MS used the Maxtor utility to "scan only" which I
interpret to be Read Only. How in blazes would that damage the disk? (Please
keep your answer to a single short paragraph, perhaps with references that
back up your claim.)

--

Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
http://grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

"MEB" meb@not wrote in message
...
Then think more carefully about this, XP is one of the most carefully
craft
boot sector virus created, it just happens to be the OS, now how did they
accomplish their task?

As for Jeff, let's see, he claimed and recommended ZAP and WIPE, then
fdisk
and format, those WERE DISCREDITED by others, then the manufactures disk,
DUH, and has STILL not stated what his supposed viewing tool is...

Get real Gary and good bye.

And remember you were told to reset the disk....


--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/
BLOG http://peoplescounsel.spaces.live.com/ Public Notice or the "real
world"

"Most people, sometime in their lives, stumble across truth.
Most jump up, brush themselves off, and hurry on about their business as
if
nothing had happen." Winston Churchill
Or to put it another way:
Morpheus can offer you the two pills;
but only you can choose whether you take the red pill or the blue one.
_______________

"Gary S. Terhune" wrote in message
...
| "MEB" meb@not wrote in message
| ...
|
| Again, good luck, I think I've about had my fill of this newsgroup.
|
| Heh, didn't even see that line until now. Really, when you debate the
way
| you do, is it any wonder you're going to get called on it? Every time
you've
| been asked to provide a *single* reference to prove some claim of yours,
or
| been asked to detail what tests *you* have performed, you are curiously
| silent and instead leap to some other argument that is equally unsound.
|
| Don't worry, as you can probably tell, we've about had our fill of you,
too.
|
| --
|
| Gary S. Terhune
| MS-MVP Shell/User
| http://grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
| http://grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
|
|
|

"Gary S. Terhune" wrote in

The purpose of *this* thread is to get Mike to start back at the
beginning with steps 1 and 2 (and a perhaps few others that do *not*
include additional scans of the HDD.) The variety of results from BING
and FDISK pretty much prove that if it *is* the drive, it's certainly
nothing a "reset" would fix (whatever that is.) If that were the case,
the results from BING partitioning would be repeatable. They're not.

Fortunately, Mike seems to have gotten the message. Let's see where
that takes him, OK?


Please explain what you meant by "reset"

I realize you said "(whatever that is.)" but I haven't seen that term
before. The only reset I know in W98SE is scanreg/restore, a great one. But
the OS has to be installed to use it.

ms

ms wrote:
"Gary S. Terhune" wrote in

The purpose of *this* thread is to get Mike to start back at the
beginning with steps 1 and 2 (and a perhaps few others that do
*not* include additional scans of the HDD.) The variety of results
from BING and FDISK pretty much prove that if it *is* the drive,
it's certainly nothing a "reset" would fix (whatever that is.) If
that were the case, the results from BING partitioning would be
repeatable. They're not.

Fortunately, Mike seems to have gotten the message. Let's see where
that takes him, OK?


Please explain what you meant by "reset"

I realize you said "(whatever that is.)"

Which means he doesn't know either (nor do I) so ask MEB.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Here ya go People.
Franc seems good at posting links and using formulas, but I think he fails
to grasp all the information he presents (or maybe he's really a sly one).
Though these related to Linux (from Franc), the principals are applied to
hard disks and in other OSs as well.

http://www.win.tue.nl/~aeb/linux/Large-Disk-6.html Disk geometry, partitions
and overlap
http://www.win.tue.nl/~aeb/linux/Large-Disk-7.html Translation and Disk
Managers
http://www.win.tue.nl/~aeb/linux/Large-Disk-9.html CONSEQUENCES
http://www.win.tue.nl/~aeb/linux/Large-Disk-10.html DETAILS
http://www.win.tue.nl/~aeb/linux/Large-Disk-11.html Clipped Disks


So it would appear that the prior activity caused conflict on the disk
between the BIOS, the controller, and the disk coding.
The disk has been essentially software clipped.
The problem: the disk was not designed to be clipped in that fashion. For
information on what improper CHS settings cause, perhaps look to the hard
drive manufacturers site, or some of the old information concerning such.
Disks which are designed for "hardware" clipping, do so either with the
manufacturers setup tool or a jumper (or perhaps via the OS which then
controls the translation such as in XP and Linux). Disks may be "software"
clipped (partitioned or otherwise) as long as the disk is properly accessed
via the bios AND the controller AND the tool. Though as is noted pursuant
the 137 gig aspect of 98 and attempts to use larger drives, the disk may
give or cause errors when doing so.
The Maxtor tool could do nothing but read the controller chip (around 10
gig) and BIOS for information, and attempt to use that upon a disk which was
set improperly in the BIOS (clipped at around 8 gig). In doing so, it used
the access through the controller and BIOS presented as proper by the comp
(both conflicting each other), and apparently performed
"verify/read/write/verify" operations (standard disk verification process).
Had it not been accessing the disk (using just verify/read/verify), it
would not have corrupted the Windows installation, it might, though, have
returned numerous errors due to the conflicting BIOS and controller.

So it seems you have determined that this thread will follow the others
with lengthy discussion. Does this clarify it or do you intend to debate
this as well while Mike is left in the lurch again.

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/
BLOG http://peoplescounsel.spaces.live.com/ Public Notice or the "real
world"

"Most people, sometime in their lives, stumble across truth.
Most jump up, brush themselves off, and hurry on about their business as if
nothing had happen." Winston Churchill
Or to put it another way:
Morpheus can offer you the two pills;
but only you can choose whether you take the red pill or the blue one.
_______________

"Gary S. Terhune" wrote in message
...
| When *you* can answer a single question put to you, *then* I'll consider
| your own complaints on that regard. Hell, you haven't even answered the
one
| I put to you in this thread.
|
| Quote:
| From what I read, MS used the Maxtor utility to "scan only" which I
| interpret to be Read Only. How in blazes would that damage the disk?
(Please
| keep your answer to a single short paragraph, perhaps with references that
| back up your claim.)
|
| --
|
| Gary S. Terhune
| MS-MVP Shell/User
| http://grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
| http://grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
|
| "MEB" meb@not wrote in message
| ...
| Then think more carefully about this, XP is one of the most carefully
| craft
| boot sector virus created, it just happens to be the OS, now how did
they
| accomplish their task?
|
| As for Jeff, let's see, he claimed and recommended ZAP and WIPE, then
| fdisk
| and format, those WERE DISCREDITED by others, then the manufactures
disk,
| DUH, and has STILL not stated what his supposed viewing tool is...
|
| Get real Gary and good bye.
|
| And remember you were told to reset the disk....
|
|
| --
| MEB
| http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/
| BLOG http://peoplescounsel.spaces.live.com/ Public Notice or the "real
| world"
|
| "Most people, sometime in their lives, stumble across truth.
| Most jump up, brush themselves off, and hurry on about their business as
| if
| nothing had happen." Winston Churchill
| Or to put it another way:
| Morpheus can offer you the two pills;
| but only you can choose whether you take the red pill or the blue one.
| _______________
|
| "Gary S. Terhune" wrote in message
| ...
| | "MEB" meb@not wrote in message
| | ...
| |
| | Again, good luck, I think I've about had my fill of this newsgroup.
| |
| | Heh, didn't even see that line until now. Really, when you debate the
| way
| | you do, is it any wonder you're going to get called on it? Every time
| you've
| | been asked to provide a *single* reference to prove some claim of
yours,
| or
| | been asked to detail what tests *you* have performed, you are
curiously
| | silent and instead leap to some other argument that is equally
unsound.
| |
| | Don't worry, as you can probably tell, we've about had our fill of
you,
| too.
| |
| | --
| |
| | Gary S. Terhune
| | MS-MVP Shell/User
| | http://grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
| | http://grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
| |
| |
| |
|
|
|
|