Whats wrong?

Hi All:

In the morning when the power is turned on the system, both power
lights on the monitor and tower come on. Then when the tower is switched on,
the "activity" (or whateveritscalled") light doesnt come on, and no cusor on
the monitor black screen. After several minutes the cursor appears and the
traffic tower light comes on and everything is ok. This does not happpen
during the day, even on a cold shut down. Otherwise its smooth sailing.
Any idea appreciated. Will clean the tower as a first step.
(PAT) Paul
--
cogito ergo sum

"PAT (Paul)" wrote in message
...
In the morning when the power is turned on the system, both power
lights on the monitor and tower come on. Then when the tower is switched on,
the "activity" (or whateveritscalled") light doesnt come on, and no cusor on
the monitor black screen. After several minutes the cursor appears and the
traffic tower light comes on and everything is ok. This does not happpen
during the day, even on a cold shut down. Otherwise its smooth sailing.
Any idea appreciated. Will clean the tower as a first step.

By "tower" I assume you mean the actual computer, right?

If so, mine does this all the time. The motherboard I've got was one of many
thousands build around 2001 which has defective capacitors on it. They are
susceptible to being cold. Whether that literally means temperature, or it
means fully discharged, I'm not sure. I suspect the later, because here's what
happens.

If I turn the machine on after it's been off for several hours, it often hangs
before even the BIOS initial beep occurs. Sometimes it'll hang later in the
boot process, but it's usually just plain dead hung upon power up. If I push
the reset button after that, it boots normally and there are no further
problems.

I suspect it's the "discharge" problem because the time between the power on
hang and my pressing reset is usually less than a minute. With the exception
of the CPU, not much of anything gets physically warm in that time. Of course,
if the caps causing the problem are the ones directly adjacent to the CPU,
maybe it is temperature.

If it's off for various periods (say, 30 minutes) it'll usually just boot up.

I'd, briefly, considered replacing the caps, but there's about 50 of them on
the board, some of them are in pretty tight places, and they're all polarized.
The chance of a screw up as compared to having to boot twice in the morning
just isn't worth it.

- Bill

Bill:
Tks for fast response. Yes by tower I mean the box where the modo, cpu,
RAM, HDD, etc are lodged. I know theres power since the green light is on;
whowever the second green light which I presume is like a visual thing thats
telling me theres activity going on, is not on when the beast is turned on in
the AM, not quite sure if it does the same thing after a long idle period.
Cleaning the tower didnt do anything to improve, however it needed cleaning
anyway. If thats the most likely fault, I'll well leave it alone...and live
with it.
Wonder if anyone else has the same problem, maybe one of the Gurus
have come across something similar.
Regards, Paul
--
cogito ergo sum


"William J. Leary Jr." wrote:

"PAT (Paul)" wrote in message
...
In the morning when the power is turned on the system, both power
lights on the monitor and tower come on. Then when the tower is switched on,
the "activity" (or whateveritscalled") light doesnt come on, and no cusor on
the monitor black screen. After several minutes the cursor appears and the
traffic tower light comes on and everything is ok. This does not happpen
during the day, even on a cold shut down. Otherwise its smooth sailing.
Any idea appreciated. Will clean the tower as a first step.

By "tower" I assume you mean the actual computer, right?

If so, mine does this all the time. The motherboard I've got was one of many
thousands build around 2001 which has defective capacitors on it. They are
susceptible to being cold. Whether that literally means temperature, or it
means fully discharged, I'm not sure. I suspect the later, because here's what
happens.

If I turn the machine on after it's been off for several hours, it often hangs
before even the BIOS initial beep occurs. Sometimes it'll hang later in the
boot process, but it's usually just plain dead hung upon power up. If I push
the reset button after that, it boots normally and there are no further
problems.

I suspect it's the "discharge" problem because the time between the power on
hang and my pressing reset is usually less than a minute. With the exception
of the CPU, not much of anything gets physically warm in that time. Of course,
if the caps causing the problem are the ones directly adjacent to the CPU,
maybe it is temperature.

If it's off for various periods (say, 30 minutes) it'll usually just boot up.

I'd, briefly, considered replacing the caps, but there's about 50 of them on
the board, some of them are in pretty tight places, and they're all polarized.
The chance of a screw up as compared to having to boot twice in the morning
just isn't worth it.

- Bill

"PAT (Paul)" wrote in message
...
Bill:
Tks for fast response. Yes by tower I mean the box where the modo, cpu,
RAM, HDD, etc are lodged. I know theres power since the green light is on;

Yes, same thing I get. Power is on, fan is spinnning, nothing else happens.

whowever the second green light which I presume is like a visual thing thats
telling me theres activity going on,

That's almost sure too be the disk activity indicator.

is not on when the beast is turned on in
the AM, not quite sure if it does the same thing after a long idle period.

If the machine goes truly idle, it will stop blinking. If I watch mine very
closely I can barely see it blink when ME is checking to see if a CD/DVD has
been put in the drive. It'll also blink occasionally when background jobs
which use the disk run.

Cleaning the tower didnt do anything to improve, however it needed cleaning
anyway. If thats the most likely fault, I'll well leave it alone...and live
with it.

I did look into this before I decided to put up with it. It took a while to
track down that my specific motherboard was manufactured during the time period
when the bad caps were making it into various Asian vendors manufacturing
plants.

Wonder if anyone else has the same problem, maybe one of the Gurus
have come across something similar.

I've exchanged e-mail with four or five other people with similar problems,
other machines with the same manufacturing run of capacitors.

Here's an article about a recent (4/2003-3/2004) outbreak of the same problem:
http://news.com.com/2100-1041-5942647.html

- Bill

I'm sure that Bill may well have a valid point regarding the mobo capacitor
problems and an inspection is the best test (as per suggested url), but be
aware that these symptoms *might* also be caused by a failing Power Unit
(PSU).

If you can hear the fans, then you should also be able to hear the HDD('s)
spinning (covers off, perhaps). What happens when you boot with the WinMe
Startup (floppy) disk in the A: drive? Any activity? Green lights on the A:
drive? Similar delay? Can you 'Open/Close' the CD-ROM tray(s)

FWIW - A replacement/substitute PSU is 'usually' cheaper (and easier) than a
replacement mobo.

No answers, just pointers g

Mart


"William J. Leary Jr." wrote in message
. ..
"PAT (Paul)" wrote in message
...
Bill:
Tks for fast response. Yes by tower I mean the box where the modo,
cpu,
RAM, HDD, etc are lodged. I know theres power since the green light is
on;

Yes, same thing I get. Power is on, fan is spinnning, nothing else
happens.

whowever the second green light which I presume is like a visual thing
thats
telling me theres activity going on,

That's almost sure too be the disk activity indicator.

is not on when the beast is turned on in
the AM, not quite sure if it does the same thing after a long idle
period.

If the machine goes truly idle, it will stop blinking. If I watch mine
very
closely I can barely see it blink when ME is checking to see if a CD/DVD
has
been put in the drive. It'll also blink occasionally when background jobs
which use the disk run.

Cleaning the tower didnt do anything to improve, however it needed
cleaning
anyway. If thats the most likely fault, I'll well leave it alone...and
live
with it.

I did look into this before I decided to put up with it. It took a while
to
track down that my specific motherboard was manufactured during the time
period
when the bad caps were making it into various Asian vendors manufacturing
plants.

Wonder if anyone else has the same problem, maybe one of the Gurus
have come across something similar.

I've exchanged e-mail with four or five other people with similar
problems,
other machines with the same manufacturing run of capacitors.

Here's an article about a recent (4/2003-3/2004) outbreak of the same
problem:
http://news.com.com/2100-1041-5942647.html

- Bill

"Mart" wrote in message
...
I'm sure that Bill may well have a valid point regarding the mobo capacitor
problems and an inspection is the best test (as per suggested url), but be
aware that these symptoms *might* also be caused by a failing Power Unit
(PSU).

Good point. I'd forgotten that I also replaced the power supply. In my case,
it wasn't broken or failing, but too small for the number and draw of the
devices it was supporting. This would cause it to often not start, even when
warmed up, start and hang very quickly, hang intermittently while running, and
so forth. When I sorted that out, the "hang on first power up of the day"
remained. As it happened, we were investigating a similar problem at work,
which was what caused me to look into it's relevance to my motherboard.

If you can hear the fans, then you should also be able to hear the HDD('s)
spinning (covers off, perhaps).

If you've got the covers off, you can also look for the CPU fan to spin up.
For the hangs I was having, the CPU, chipset, and graphics card fans were all
spinning.

- Bill

Bill wrote:-

Good point. I'd forgotten that I also replaced the power supply...

Good time for reflection here too, Bill, I'd forgotten myself of an alleged
'failing mobo' where all 'correct voltages' were showing from the PSU
'proving' that the PSU was OK.

WRONG!! -- A substituted/replacement PSU cured everything. As soon as the
original PSU was re-connected - problems were back. That same mobo (with new
PSU) is still working quite sweetly, almost three years further down the
line - the original PSU went into the dumpster g

Let's just hope that Paul's issues are as easily resolvable.

Mart



"William J. Leary Jr." wrote in message
news
"Mart" wrote in message
...
I'm sure that Bill may well have a valid point regarding the mobo
capacitor
problems and an inspection is the best test (as per suggested url), but
be
aware that these symptoms *might* also be caused by a failing Power Unit
(PSU).

Good point. I'd forgotten that I also replaced the power supply. In my
case,
it wasn't broken or failing, but too small for the number and draw of the
devices it was supporting. This would cause it to often not start, even
when
warmed up, start and hang very quickly, hang intermittently while running,
and
so forth. When I sorted that out, the "hang on first power up of the day"
remained. As it happened, we were investigating a similar problem at
work,
which was what caused me to look into it's relevance to my motherboard.

If you can hear the fans, then you should also be able to hear the
HDD('s)
spinning (covers off, perhaps).

If you've got the covers off, you can also look for the CPU fan to spin
up.
For the hangs I was having, the CPU, chipset, and graphics card fans were
all
spinning.

- Bill

Bill and Mart:
/Tks for responses. Will live with it, since it comes on after few mins
sometimes 5, but hey I've got lots of time on my hand and can wait 5 for
mins. However if and when I have other troubles, I may think of having it
fixed. Can you guys tell me what is code at power on? I dont even hear the
one beep saying all ok, but get the POST sound.
Regards, Paul
--
cogito ergo sum


"Mart" wrote:

Bill wrote:-

Good point. I'd forgotten that I also replaced the power supply...

Good time for reflection here too, Bill, I'd forgotten myself of an alleged
'failing mobo' where all 'correct voltages' were showing from the PSU
'proving' that the PSU was OK.

WRONG!! -- A substituted/replacement PSU cured everything. As soon as the
original PSU was re-connected - problems were back. That same mobo (with new
PSU) is still working quite sweetly, almost three years further down the
line - the original PSU went into the dumpster g

Let's just hope that Paul's issues are as easily resolvable.

Mart



"William J. Leary Jr." wrote in message
news
"Mart" wrote in message
...
I'm sure that Bill may well have a valid point regarding the mobo
capacitor
problems and an inspection is the best test (as per suggested url), but
be
aware that these symptoms *might* also be caused by a failing Power Unit
(PSU).

Good point. I'd forgotten that I also replaced the power supply. In my
case,
it wasn't broken or failing, but too small for the number and draw of the
devices it was supporting. This would cause it to often not start, even
when
warmed up, start and hang very quickly, hang intermittently while running,
and
so forth. When I sorted that out, the "hang on first power up of the day"
remained. As it happened, we were investigating a similar problem at
work,
which was what caused me to look into it's relevance to my motherboard.

If you can hear the fans, then you should also be able to hear the
HDD('s)
spinning (covers off, perhaps).

If you've got the covers off, you can also look for the CPU fan to spin
up.
For the hangs I was having, the CPU, chipset, and graphics card fans were
all
spinning.

- Bill