Win98 Daylight Savings Time Manual Update Required-- reminder 2

The following is required to do in the USA only...

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=914387
How to configure daylight saving time for the United States in 2007
.......Quote.......
INTRODUCTION
Because of the Energy Policy Act, daylight saving time is extended by
four weeks in 2007. This change starts on the second Sunday of March and
ends on the first Sunday of November.
.......EOQ.........

The time has come to follow the instructions in that article, or,
perhaps a bit more clear...

(a) Click TZEDIT.EXE.
It opens with your time zone selected.
(b) Click the Edit button.
(c) Change the Start Day to... Second, Sunday, March.
(d) Change the Last Day to... First, Sunday, November.
(e) Click the OK button.
(f) Click the Close button.
(g) Click Start, point to Settings, point to Control Panel,
and then double-click Date/Time.
(h) Click the Time Zone tab.
(i) Select a different time zone than (the one you are set at),
and then click Apply.
(j) Click (back to the one you were set at), and then click OK.

"Note Steps i and j are required for the new changes to take effect",
the article says, as does TZEdit's own help screen.

Do so before March 11, 2007. If you cannot get TZEdit.exe from your
personal copy of the Resource Kit, get it from the above article as
Candlin saw or from...
ftp://ftp.microsoft.com/services/tec...Reskit/CONFIG/...,
as Laura Fredericks did discover, after likely 1/2 ton of clicking.

The REG file I've been promising is almost ready. Just have to test it a bit
more. Then I'll put it on my website. It will contain all of the fixes
included in the two recent Updates for Windows XP, et al.

If you'll recall, I was waiting for MS to finalize the updates. They've now
done so.

--

Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User

"PCR" wrote in message
...
The following is required to do in the USA only...

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=914387
How to configure daylight saving time for the United States in 2007
......Quote.......
INTRODUCTION
Because of the Energy Policy Act, daylight saving time is extended by
four weeks in 2007. This change starts on the second Sunday of March and
ends on the first Sunday of November.
......EOQ.........

The time has come to follow the instructions in that article, or,
perhaps a bit more clear...

(a) Click TZEDIT.EXE.
It opens with your time zone selected.
(b) Click the Edit button.
(c) Change the Start Day to... Second, Sunday, March.
(d) Change the Last Day to... First, Sunday, November.
(e) Click the OK button.
(f) Click the Close button.
(g) Click Start, point to Settings, point to Control Panel,
and then double-click Date/Time.
(h) Click the Time Zone tab.
(i) Select a different time zone than (the one you are set at),
and then click Apply.
(j) Click (back to the one you were set at), and then click OK.

"Note Steps i and j are required for the new changes to take effect",
the article says, as does TZEdit's own help screen.

Do so before March 11, 2007. If you cannot get TZEdit.exe from your
personal copy of the Resource Kit, get it from the above article as
Candlin saw or from...
ftp://ftp.microsoft.com/services/tec...Reskit/CONFIG/...,
as Laura Fredericks did discover, after likely 1/2 ton of clicking.

I thought we already had that update from another website some time ago.
Didn't we go thru this before? I'm pretty sure I mentioned it in here.

Gary S. Terhune wrote:
The REG file I've been promising is almost ready. Just have to test it a
bit
more. Then I'll put it on my website. It will contain all of the fixes
included in the two recent Updates for Windows XP, et al.

If you'll recall, I was waiting for MS to finalize the updates. They've
now
done so.

--

Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User

"PCR" wrote in message
...
The following is required to do in the USA only...

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=914387
How to configure daylight saving time for the United States in 2007
......Quote.......
INTRODUCTION
Because of the Energy Policy Act, daylight saving time is extended by
four weeks in 2007. This change starts on the second Sunday of March and
ends on the first Sunday of November.
......EOQ.........

The time has come to follow the instructions in that article, or,
perhaps a bit more clear...

(a) Click TZEDIT.EXE.
It opens with your time zone selected.
(b) Click the Edit button.
(c) Change the Start Day to... Second, Sunday, March.
(d) Change the Last Day to... First, Sunday, November.
(e) Click the OK button.
(f) Click the Close button.
(g) Click Start, point to Settings, point to Control Panel,
and then double-click Date/Time.
(h) Click the Time Zone tab.
(i) Select a different time zone than (the one you are set at),
and then click Apply.
(j) Click (back to the one you were set at), and then click OK.

"Note Steps i and j are required for the new changes to take effect",
the article says, as does TZEdit's own help screen.

Do so before March 11, 2007. If you cannot get TZEdit.exe from your
personal copy of the Resource Kit, get it from the above article as
Candlin saw or from...

ftp://ftp.microsoft.com/services/tec...Reskit/CONFIG/...,
as Laura Fredericks did discover, after likely 1/2 ton of clicking.

The update is dated 18 November, 2006. But, at the time, the accompanying
article, KB928388, had a note that essentially said that the Update was
tentative (i.e. "beta") until early 2007. The article was then reviewed on
26 December, 2006, at which time that notation was removed. The update
itself, however, was not changed. The update did not appear on Windows
Updates until 9 January, 2007. Besides modifying the Registry to account for
the changes in the US, there are several other modifications affecting other
time zones around the world. AFAIK, this Update and the one listed below are
cumulative -- they bring a fresh install of Windows up totally up to date
with regard to time zones.

There is an additional update for Western Australia time zone, KB929120,
that modifies KB928388, which was also released on 9 January. My REG file
will include all changes made by these two Updates. Thing is, there are
several additions that refer to processes only available in
Win2000/XP/Vista/2003, *I_THINK*, having to do with when the changes
actually go into affect, or in the case of Western Australia, when they
revert to a different setting later on, as the law change in that time zone
is a trial that will last only three years. I need to inspect Win98 to see
if the processes are even available, and also inspect the Updates themselves
to see if the DLLs (or whatever) that are involved are updated in the
Update. At first glance, they involve Services, which aren't part of the
Win9x paradigm. I *think* I'm simply going to include the whole Time Zones
Registry key (changing "Windows NT" to "Windows", assuming that there will
be info that will be useless to Win 9x, but also harmless.

Anyway, I haven't finished inspecting the whole thing in detail. Too much
other stuff going on in my life, and I don't have a Win98 machine available
except one that's mounted in a VPC on my wife's machine. Have to wait until
she's sleeping and I'm not. Also have to fit everything in the small bits of
time I have when I'm not visiting the doctor, or falling flat on my face for
no apparent reason, or getting a liver biopsy, or at one of my weekly visits
to the dentist for major overhauls, or fixing the stove pipe so that we
don't get any more chimney fires, or trying to keep water pipes from
freezing, etc.

--

Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User

"Bill in Co." wrote in message
...
I thought we already had that update from another website some time ago.
Didn't we go thru this before? I'm pretty sure I mentioned it in here.

Gary S. Terhune wrote:
The REG file I've been promising is almost ready. Just have to test it a
bit
more. Then I'll put it on my website. It will contain all of the fixes
included in the two recent Updates for Windows XP, et al.

If you'll recall, I was waiting for MS to finalize the updates. They've
now
done so.

--

Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User

"PCR" wrote in message
...
The following is required to do in the USA only...

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=914387
How to configure daylight saving time for the United States in 2007
......Quote.......
INTRODUCTION
Because of the Energy Policy Act, daylight saving time is extended by
four weeks in 2007. This change starts on the second Sunday of March and
ends on the first Sunday of November.
......EOQ.........

The time has come to follow the instructions in that article, or,
perhaps a bit more clear...

(a) Click TZEDIT.EXE.
It opens with your time zone selected.
(b) Click the Edit button.
(c) Change the Start Day to... Second, Sunday, March.
(d) Change the Last Day to... First, Sunday, November.
(e) Click the OK button.
(f) Click the Close button.
(g) Click Start, point to Settings, point to Control Panel,
and then double-click Date/Time.
(h) Click the Time Zone tab.
(i) Select a different time zone than (the one you are set at),
and then click Apply.
(j) Click (back to the one you were set at), and then click OK.

"Note Steps i and j are required for the new changes to take effect",
the article says, as does TZEdit's own help screen.

Do so before March 11, 2007. If you cannot get TZEdit.exe from your
personal copy of the Resource Kit, get it from the above article as
Candlin saw or from...

ftp://ftp.microsoft.com/services/tec...Reskit/CONFIG/...,
as Laura Fredericks did discover, after likely 1/2 ton of clicking.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 17:09:23 -0500, "PCR" wrote
in post:
snip
as Laura Fredericks did discover, after likely 1/2 ton of clicking.

I *never* had a problem finding the tzedit.exe program. As I wrote in
my first post, "I know I can do it manually using tzedit..." The
*problem* was that I didn't want to edit the timezone reg info
myself, because everything I read about doing it sounded complicated,
i.e. so many timezones. I later found out that all you need to do is
edit only YOUR timezone, not every single one of them -- unless you
travel to other timezones, that is. ;-)

Since I was the first to bring this urgent matter up, could you
please delete my name re. looking for tzedit.exe and instead, add the
following to the *end* of your great reminder and instructions? TIA.
:-)

********************

Thanks to Laura Fredericks for bringing to this newsgroup's
attention the problem of Microsoft not issuing a patch for the 2007
DST changes to Win98 and other old, non-supported operating systems.
MESSAGE ID:
GOOGLE GROUPS: http://snipurl.com/17lqe

********************

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 8.1

iQA/AwUBRaxKx6RseRzHUwOaEQKWwACgwUqtlgFQ4xjOyUyS1rllPV WjfRQAoPVH
AdWiNxnpVy25ZzLFmCEjBRHH
=sxcg
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Laura Fredericks
PGP key ID - DH/DSS 2048/1024: 0xC753039A

MARCH 11, 2007: D(ST) DAY FOR WIN98 USERS!
Change your registry BEFORE 3/11/07!!!!!!!
Because of the Energy Policy Act, Daylight
Saving Time is extended by four weeks in
the U.S., starting in 2007. Microsoft
WILL NOT release an update for old, non-
supported operating systems such as
Windows 98. Therefore, you must do it
manually BEFORE March 11, 2007. See the
following for details:
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=914387

Usenet Flamewars:
http://www.queenofcyberspace.com/usenet/

Remove CLOTHES to reply.

Gary S. Terhune wrote:
The update is dated 18 November, 2006. But, at the time, the accompanying
article, KB928388, had a note that essentially said that the Update was
tentative (i.e. "beta") until early 2007. The article was then reviewed on
26 December, 2006, at which time that notation was removed. The update
itself, however, was not changed. The update did not appear on Windows
Updates until 9 January, 2007.

I didn't think updates for Win98SE were appearing on the MS "Windows
Updates" anymore. So, that's news to me. But I never check there
anymore (and haven't done that for quite awhile).

So I just downloaded that small exe file (Q928388 Win98SE DST
UnofficialTimeZoneUpdate.exe) from that one web site, and siimply installed
it. No muss, no fuss, and (presumably) problem solved, (for us Win98SE
users in the US), and no fussing around with tzedit is necessary!!

Besides modifying the Registry to account for
the changes in the US, there are several other modifications affecting
other
time zones around the world. AFAIK, this Update and the one listed below
are
cumulative -- they bring a fresh install of Windows up totally up to date
with regard to time zones.

There is an additional update for Western Australia time zone, KB929120,
that modifies KB928388, which was also released on 9 January. My REG file
will include all changes made by these two Updates. Thing is, there are
several additions that refer to processes only available in
Win2000/XP/Vista/2003, *I_THINK*, having to do with when the changes
actually go into affect, or in the case of Western Australia, when they
revert to a different setting later on, as the law change in that time
zone
is a trial that will last only three years. I need to inspect Win98 to see
if the processes are even available, and also inspect the Updates
themselves
to see if the DLLs (or whatever) that are involved are updated in the
Update. At first glance, they involve Services, which aren't part of the
Win9x paradigm. I *think* I'm simply going to include the whole Time Zones
Registry key (changing "Windows NT" to "Windows", assuming that there will
be info that will be useless to Win 9x, but also harmless.

Anyway, I haven't finished inspecting the whole thing in detail. Too much
other stuff going on in my life, and I don't have a Win98 machine
available
except one that's mounted in a VPC on my wife's machine. Have to wait
until
she's sleeping and I'm not. Also have to fit everything in the small bits
of
time I have when I'm not visiting the doctor, or falling flat on my face
for
no apparent reason, or getting a liver biopsy, or at one of my weekly
visits
to the dentist for major overhauls, or fixing the stove pipe so that we
don't get any more chimney fires, or trying to keep water pipes from
freezing, etc.

--

Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User

"Bill in Co." wrote in message
...
I thought we already had that update from another website some time ago.
Didn't we go thru this before? I'm pretty sure I mentioned it in here.

Gary S. Terhune wrote:
The REG file I've been promising is almost ready. Just have to test it a
bit
more. Then I'll put it on my website. It will contain all of the fixes
included in the two recent Updates for Windows XP, et al.

If you'll recall, I was waiting for MS to finalize the updates. They've
now
done so.

--

Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User

"PCR" wrote in message
...
The following is required to do in the USA only...

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=914387
How to configure daylight saving time for the United States in 2007
......Quote.......
INTRODUCTION
Because of the Energy Policy Act, daylight saving time is extended by
four weeks in 2007. This change starts on the second Sunday of March
and
ends on the first Sunday of November.
......EOQ.........

The time has come to follow the instructions in that article, or,
perhaps a bit more clear...

(a) Click TZEDIT.EXE.
It opens with your time zone selected.
(b) Click the Edit button.
(c) Change the Start Day to... Second, Sunday, March.
(d) Change the Last Day to... First, Sunday, November.
(e) Click the OK button.
(f) Click the Close button.
(g) Click Start, point to Settings, point to Control Panel,
and then double-click Date/Time.
(h) Click the Time Zone tab.
(i) Select a different time zone than (the one you are set at),
and then click Apply.
(j) Click (back to the one you were set at), and then click OK.

"Note Steps i and j are required for the new changes to take effect",
the article says, as does TZEdit's own help screen.

Do so before March 11, 2007. If you cannot get TZEdit.exe from your
personal copy of the Resource Kit, get it from the above article as
Candlin saw or from...


ftp://ftp.microsoft.com/services/tec...Reskit/CONFIG/...,
as Laura Fredericks did discover, after likely 1/2 ton of clicking.

But you don't need to go thru all of this, Laura, as I mentioned befo

You can just download that one small exe file (the Q928388 Win98SE DST
UnofficialTimeZoneUpdate.exe file) from that one web site, and install it.
No muss, no fuss, and (presumably) problem solved, for any Win98SE users (at
least here in the States), and NO fussing around with tzedit is necessary!!

Well, except you're not using Win98SE anymore, so I guess it's a moot point
for you, as I recall.

I keep trying to tell PCR this too. :-)


Laura Fredericks wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 17:09:23 -0500, "PCR" wrote
in post:
snip
as Laura Fredericks did discover, after likely 1/2 ton of clicking.

I *never* had a problem finding the tzedit.exe program. As I wrote in
my first post, "I know I can do it manually using tzedit..." The
*problem* was that I didn't want to edit the timezone reg info
myself, because everything I read about doing it sounded complicated,
i.e. so many timezones. I later found out that all you need to do is
edit only YOUR timezone, not every single one of them -- unless you
travel to other timezones, that is. ;-)

Since I was the first to bring this urgent matter up, could you
please delete my name re. looking for tzedit.exe and instead, add the
following to the *end* of your great reminder and instructions? TIA.
:-)

********************

Thanks to Laura Fredericks for bringing to this newsgroup's
attention the problem of Microsoft not issuing a patch for the 2007
DST changes to Win98 and other old, non-supported operating systems.
MESSAGE ID:
GOOGLE GROUPS: http://snipurl.com/17lqe

********************

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 8.1

iQA/AwUBRaxKx6RseRzHUwOaEQKWwACgwUqtlgFQ4xjOyUyS1rllPV WjfRQAoPVH
AdWiNxnpVy25ZzLFmCEjBRHH
=sxcg
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Laura Fredericks
PGP key ID - DH/DSS 2048/1024: 0xC753039A

MARCH 11, 2007: D(ST) DAY FOR WIN98 USERS!
Change your registry BEFORE 3/11/07!!!!!!!
Because of the Energy Policy Act, Daylight
Saving Time is extended by four weeks in
the U.S., starting in 2007. Microsoft
WILL NOT release an update for old, non-
supported operating systems such as
Windows 98. Therefore, you must do it
manually BEFORE March 11, 2007. See the
following for details:
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=914387

Usenet Flamewars:
http://www.queenofcyberspace.com/usenet/

Remove CLOTHES to reply.

"Bill in Co." wrote in message
...
Gary S. Terhune wrote:
The update is dated 18 November, 2006. But, at the time, the accompanying
article, KB928388, had a note that essentially said that the Update was
tentative (i.e. "beta") until early 2007. The article was then reviewed
on
26 December, 2006, at which time that notation was removed. The update
itself, however, was not changed. The update did not appear on Windows
Updates until 9 January, 2007.

I didn't think updates for Win98SE were appearing on the MS "Windows
Updates" anymore. So, that's news to me. But I never check there
anymore (and haven't done that for quite awhile).


I wasn't referring to a Windows 98 Update, I was referring to the one for
Win2000/2003/XP/Vista. I installed it on my XP machine and then used the
resulting Registry, with modifications, to create a REG file for Win9x
users.

So I just downloaded that small exe file (Q928388 Win98SE DST
UnofficialTimeZoneUpdate.exe) from that one web site, and siimply
installed
it. No muss, no fuss, and (presumably) problem solved, (for us Win98SE
users in the US), and no fussing around with tzedit is necessary!!

Mine doesn't require TZEDIT, either. I'm unfamiliar with the file you speak
of and don't know for sure what it does. You have a link? Also, it obviously
doesn't include the more recent Western Australia update. As I said, I was
holding off until MS pronounced the changes final. Turns out that with the
exception of the Western Australian update, MS made no changes to 928388,
but that wasn't a given until the last week in December.

I'd be interested in seeing what the file you cite contains.

--

Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User

And I would like a reference to where I can D/L the file, so that I can look
at its contents, and also inspect its provenance. Otherwise, I am certainly
not going to recommend it.

--

Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User

"Bill in Co." wrote in message
...
But you don't need to go thru all of this, Laura, as I mentioned befo

You can just download that one small exe file (the Q928388 Win98SE DST
UnofficialTimeZoneUpdate.exe file) from that one web site, and install it.
No muss, no fuss, and (presumably) problem solved, for any Win98SE users
(at
least here in the States), and NO fussing around with tzedit is
necessary!!

Well, except you're not using Win98SE anymore, so I guess it's a moot
point
for you, as I recall.

I keep trying to tell PCR this too. :-)


Laura Fredericks wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 17:09:23 -0500, "PCR" wrote
in post:
snip
as Laura Fredericks did discover, after likely 1/2 ton of clicking.

I *never* had a problem finding the tzedit.exe program. As I wrote in
my first post, "I know I can do it manually using tzedit..." The
*problem* was that I didn't want to edit the timezone reg info
myself, because everything I read about doing it sounded complicated,
i.e. so many timezones. I later found out that all you need to do is
edit only YOUR timezone, not every single one of them -- unless you
travel to other timezones, that is. ;-)

Since I was the first to bring this urgent matter up, could you
please delete my name re. looking for tzedit.exe and instead, add the
following to the *end* of your great reminder and instructions? TIA.
:-)

********************

Thanks to Laura Fredericks for bringing to this newsgroup's
attention the problem of Microsoft not issuing a patch for the 2007
DST changes to Win98 and other old, non-supported operating systems.
MESSAGE ID:
GOOGLE GROUPS: http://snipurl.com/17lqe

********************

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 8.1

iQA/AwUBRaxKx6RseRzHUwOaEQKWwACgwUqtlgFQ4xjOyUyS1rllPV WjfRQAoPVH
AdWiNxnpVy25ZzLFmCEjBRHH
=sxcg
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Laura Fredericks
PGP key ID - DH/DSS 2048/1024: 0xC753039A

MARCH 11, 2007: D(ST) DAY FOR WIN98 USERS!
Change your registry BEFORE 3/11/07!!!!!!!
Because of the Energy Policy Act, Daylight
Saving Time is extended by four weeks in
the U.S., starting in 2007. Microsoft
WILL NOT release an update for old, non-
supported operating systems such as
Windows 98. Therefore, you must do it
manually BEFORE March 11, 2007. See the
following for details:
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=914387

Usenet Flamewars:
http://www.queenofcyberspace.com/usenet/

Remove CLOTHES to reply.

Go he
http://www.msfn.org/board/?showtopic=87399
and scroll down to the post by MDGx about halfway down.

His unofficial update was linked he
http://www.mdgx.com/add.htm#TZU
but I don't see the link for the 9x patch on that page any more, although the direct
download link still works:
http://www.mdgx.com/files/Q928388.EXE
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
http://dts-l.org/


"Gary S. Terhune" wrote in message
...
And I would like a reference to where I can D/L the file, so that I can look at
its contents, and also inspect its provenance. Otherwise, I am certainly not going
to recommend it.

--

Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User

"Bill in Co." wrote in message
...
But you don't need to go thru all of this, Laura, as I mentioned befo

You can just download that one small exe file (the Q928388 Win98SE DST
UnofficialTimeZoneUpdate.exe file) from that one web site, and install it.
No muss, no fuss, and (presumably) problem solved, for any Win98SE users (at
least here in the States), and NO fussing around with tzedit is necessary!!

Well, except you're not using Win98SE anymore, so I guess it's a moot point
for you, as I recall.

I keep trying to tell PCR this too. :-)


Laura Fredericks wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 17:09:23 -0500, "PCR" wrote
in post:
snip
as Laura Fredericks did discover, after likely 1/2 ton of clicking.

I *never* had a problem finding the tzedit.exe program. As I wrote in
my first post, "I know I can do it manually using tzedit..." The
*problem* was that I didn't want to edit the timezone reg info
myself, because everything I read about doing it sounded complicated,
i.e. so many timezones. I later found out that all you need to do is
edit only YOUR timezone, not every single one of them -- unless you
travel to other timezones, that is. ;-)

Since I was the first to bring this urgent matter up, could you
please delete my name re. looking for tzedit.exe and instead, add the
following to the *end* of your great reminder and instructions? TIA.
:-)

********************

Thanks to Laura Fredericks for bringing to this newsgroup's
attention the problem of Microsoft not issuing a patch for the 2007
DST changes to Win98 and other old, non-supported operating systems.
MESSAGE ID:
GOOGLE GROUPS: http://snipurl.com/17lqe

********************

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 8.1

iQA/AwUBRaxKx6RseRzHUwOaEQKWwACgwUqtlgFQ4xjOyUyS1rllPV WjfRQAoPVH
AdWiNxnpVy25ZzLFmCEjBRHH
=sxcg
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Laura Fredericks
PGP key ID - DH/DSS 2048/1024: 0xC753039A

MARCH 11, 2007: D(ST) DAY FOR WIN98 USERS!
Change your registry BEFORE 3/11/07!!!!!!!
Because of the Energy Policy Act, Daylight
Saving Time is extended by four weeks in
the U.S., starting in 2007. Microsoft
WILL NOT release an update for old, non-
supported operating systems such as
Windows 98. Therefore, you must do it
manually BEFORE March 11, 2007. See the
following for details:
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=914387

Usenet Flamewars:
http://www.queenofcyberspace.com/usenet/

Remove CLOTHES to reply.