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#12
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Problems with start-up, shutdown, restore... Should I reinsta
Hello again!
Please pardon my temporary absence...life intervened. You are correct that I first renamed the _Restore folder before deleting the renamed folder. I have also done the following: 1) I tested my System Restore as you suggested and it passed the test. 2) I uninstalled the Norton Utilities and Live Update programs. 3) I renamed the WININIT.INI file, and upon rebooting my computer created another WININIT.INI file. I tried repeating this test, and my computer shut down with no problem but ran scandisk upon restarting; it did NOT create a WININIT.INI file, however. 4) I ran the Belarc's Adviser program as you suggested, and it listed 17 installed "Microsoft Hotfixes" for WinME. All of the updates had a green check suggesting proper installation. It is possible that previous appearances of the %1 %2 error messages occurred after I installed or updated other programs on my computer. I also ran "Windows Update" and this Microsoft utility found no available critical updates for my computer. 5) I decided to install two non-critical Microsoft updates, including one which introduces a two second delay in the shut-down process to allow time for large HD's to finish transferring the content of their cache to disk. I very recently installed a big second HD (all my OS problems preceded this installation), and I reasoned that if addition of an exit sound helped a little, this delay might help more. When I tried to shut down my computer, it automatically restarted and ran scandisk due to "improper shutdown." The %1 %2 error messages did not occur, and a WININIT.INI file was NOT created. My computer did not restart the next time I shut it down, but when I booted it back up it ran scandisk due to "improper shutdown." The WININIT.INI file still has not reappeared. I have noticed that the likelihood of my shutdown problem seems roughly correlated with the number of programs I had opened, but my start-up problem occurs consistently. I have since restarted my computer another time or two and it still has not created another WININIT.INI file. I welcome suggestions regarding what I should do next. Regards, Mike "Mike M" wrote: Michael J. Sykes wrote: I decided to first follow the procedure in the Microsoft page you referenced (deleting the _RESTORE folder as you subsequently suggested). Mike, I'm not sure how you did this as the _RESTORE folder cannot be deleted from Win Me without hacking so I assume you mean the renamed folder OLDREST. Incidentally the procedure at 280369 is virtually the same as the instructions I posted - just a little more long winded. This has resulted in the apparent restoration of my System Restore. Thank you! Is there still a need to mess with my WININIT.INI file? If you have a wininit.ini file present after rebooting then you have problems and it is essential to establish why this is occurring. I also accessed the Windows update website which found one critical update for me to install. I know that I got those error messages after installing the last couple of updates, however. Do I need to do something else to ensure my security upgrades are up to date? You've almost certainly got loads of patches to reinstall. See my earlier post about running Belarc Adviser. When I rebooted after installing the new update, I saw no error messages. However it appears my shutdown and start-up problems were NOT solved by setting an exit sound for my computer (see my message above). I would welcome your suggestions. Let's try to walk before progressing to running. Let's get system restore working correctly and your PC fully patches and then we can consider other problems. Since you feel that system restore is working now I would strongly recommend the following quick test: a) Create a shortcut on your desktop to a file. b) Create a manual checkpoint Could you create a checkpoint? c) Delete the shortcut d) Restore your PC to the checkpoint you created. Was the shortcut restored? Did you see any error messages? e) Reboot your PC Was the checkpoint retained? Regarding the Symantec programs, I noticed Microsoft says the Norton System Works 2000 is not compatible with Win-ME; it specifically mentions the Norton Live Update feature causing problems. I have the 2001 version of Norton System Works; I have uninstalled the NAV program and disabled the live update (but still have the utilities). Do you think I'm safe or should I purge my computer of all Symantec programs? At the risk of repeating myself NO Symantec applications can be safely used with Win Me, especially so if you wish to use your PC and not end up with loads of problems. To my mind you have already demonstrated the truth of this. vbg -- Mike Maltby |
#13
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Problems with start-up, shutdown, restore... Should I reinsta
Mike,
Please pardon my temporary absence...life intervened. No need to apologise - we all have lives to live! vbg So it appears that not only is system restore now OK but also that you aren't getting a wininit.ini file being created each time you boot but instead, more correctly, only when you are installing or upgrading a component that requires a file that is currently in use to be upgraded when you next reboot. It would also now appear that your problems are primarily confined to improper shutdowns that result in scandisk running when you next boot your system and that you have now installed the hotfix that introduces a delay on shutdown to allow time for fast hard disks to write cached data to the disk before they switch off. You might want to try fiddling with the shutdown delay by editing the registry and increasing the value of the DWORD CacheWriteDelay found at HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion. This is useful where fast hard disks are used that shutdown before all cached data has been written to them. For more details see MS KB 273017 - "ScanDisk Runs Even Though Windows Shut Down Correctly" (http://support.microsoft.com?kbid=273017). Tracking down shutdown and power-off problems (they differ) can be somewhat difficult but may I suggest that you start by having a look at MS KB 273746 - "How to Troubleshoot Windows Me Shutdown Problems" (http://support.microsoft.com?kbid=273746) and then move on to Jim Eshelman's pages at http://aumha.org/win4/a/shutdown.htm and http://aumha.org/win4/a/shtdwnme.htm which cover this topic. Hopefully you will find advice there that will help your resolve your problem. The Windows Me Startup and Shutdown Troubleshooting Wizard is located in the Help and Support Centre in Windows Me or at the following Microsoft Web site: http://support.microsoft.com/support/windows/tshoot/ I've seen all manner of third party components causing shutdown problems such as you are seeing ranging from problems with audio drivers to even having to shutdown a firewall before shutting down so as to avoid the scandisk problem you are seeing. Regrettably this is where the hard work starts. Best of luck and please let us all know the culprit if you find the cause of your problems. -- Mike Maltby Michael J. Sykes wrote: Hello again! Please pardon my temporary absence...life intervened. You are correct that I first renamed the _Restore folder before deleting the renamed folder. I have also done the following: 1) I tested my System Restore as you suggested and it passed the test. 2) I uninstalled the Norton Utilities and Live Update programs. 3) I renamed the WININIT.INI file, and upon rebooting my computer created another WININIT.INI file. I tried repeating this test, and my computer shut down with no problem but ran scandisk upon restarting; it did NOT create a WININIT.INI file, however. 4) I ran the Belarc's Adviser program as you suggested, and it listed 17 installed "Microsoft Hotfixes" for WinME. All of the updates had a green check suggesting proper installation. It is possible that previous appearances of the %1 %2 error messages occurred after I installed or updated other programs on my computer. I also ran "Windows Update" and this Microsoft utility found no available critical updates for my computer. 5) I decided to install two non-critical Microsoft updates, including one which introduces a two second delay in the shut-down process to allow time for large HD's to finish transferring the content of their cache to disk. I very recently installed a big second HD (all my OS problems preceded this installation), and I reasoned that if addition of an exit sound helped a little, this delay might help more. When I tried to shut down my computer, it automatically restarted and ran scandisk due to "improper shutdown." The %1 %2 error messages did not occur, and a WININIT.INI file was NOT created. My computer did not restart the next time I shut it down, but when I booted it back up it ran scandisk due to "improper shutdown." The WININIT.INI file still has not reappeared. I have noticed that the likelihood of my shutdown problem seems roughly correlated with the number of programs I had opened, but my start-up problem occurs consistently. I have since restarted my computer another time or two and it still has not created another WININIT.INI file. I welcome suggestions regarding what I should do next. Regards, Mike "Mike M" wrote: Michael J. Sykes wrote: I decided to first follow the procedure in the Microsoft page you referenced (deleting the _RESTORE folder as you subsequently suggested). Mike, I'm not sure how you did this as the _RESTORE folder cannot be deleted from Win Me without hacking so I assume you mean the renamed folder OLDREST. Incidentally the procedure at 280369 is virtually the same as the instructions I posted - just a little more long winded. This has resulted in the apparent restoration of my System Restore. Thank you! Is there still a need to mess with my WININIT.INI file? If you have a wininit.ini file present after rebooting then you have problems and it is essential to establish why this is occurring. I also accessed the Windows update website which found one critical update for me to install. I know that I got those error messages after installing the last couple of updates, however. Do I need to do something else to ensure my security upgrades are up to date? You've almost certainly got loads of patches to reinstall. See my earlier post about running Belarc Adviser. When I rebooted after installing the new update, I saw no error messages. However it appears my shutdown and start-up problems were NOT solved by setting an exit sound for my computer (see my message above). I would welcome your suggestions. Let's try to walk before progressing to running. Let's get system restore working correctly and your PC fully patches and then we can consider other problems. Since you feel that system restore is working now I would strongly recommend the following quick test: a) Create a shortcut on your desktop to a file. b) Create a manual checkpoint Could you create a checkpoint? c) Delete the shortcut d) Restore your PC to the checkpoint you created. Was the shortcut restored? Did you see any error messages? e) Reboot your PC Was the checkpoint retained? Regarding the Symantec programs, I noticed Microsoft says the Norton System Works 2000 is not compatible with Win-ME; it specifically mentions the Norton Live Update feature causing problems. I have the 2001 version of Norton System Works; I have uninstalled the NAV program and disabled the live update (but still have the utilities). Do you think I'm safe or should I purge my computer of all Symantec programs? At the risk of repeating myself NO Symantec applications can be safely used with Win Me, especially so if you wish to use your PC and not end up with loads of problems. To my mind you have already demonstrated the truth of this. vbg -- Mike Maltby |
#14
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Problems with start-up, shutdown, restore... Should I reinsta
Thank you for the suggestions. I will report back (probably in a couple
days) after I've followed them. However, I would first like to share one possible clue I neglected to previously mention. Every time scandisk runs after an "improper shutdown", a prompt subsequently appears asking me to enter my password for Microsoft Networking. I do not know what this is, nor do I have a password. So I hit the escape key (or click cancel) and then the OS finishes loading. On those fairly rare occasions that scandisk does not run upon start-up, I also do not get this password prompt. Does this shed any light on my shutdown/startup problem? How can I prevent the OS from trying to run this Networking program? Is there any reason I wouldn't want to stop it? Regarding my new big HD, it really isn't a factor. I only installed it to have an easy way to backup my C: drive (in advance of messing with my OS); I do not read or write any info to my new HD during most sessions. My primary HD is a 40 gb, 7200 rpm Maxtor. Do you think this 40gb HD may not have enough time to process its info during shutdown? Regards, Mike "Mike M" wrote: Mike, Please pardon my temporary absence...life intervened. No need to apologise - we all have lives to live! vbg So it appears that not only is system restore now OK but also that you aren't getting a wininit.ini file being created each time you boot but instead, more correctly, only when you are installing or upgrading a component that requires a file that is currently in use to be upgraded when you next reboot. It would also now appear that your problems are primarily confined to improper shutdowns that result in scandisk running when you next boot your system and that you have now installed the hotfix that introduces a delay on shutdown to allow time for fast hard disks to write cached data to the disk before they switch off. You might want to try fiddling with the shutdown delay by editing the registry and increasing the value of the DWORD CacheWriteDelay found at HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion. This is useful where fast hard disks are used that shutdown before all cached data has been written to them. For more details see MS KB 273017 - "ScanDisk Runs Even Though Windows Shut Down Correctly" (http://support.microsoft.com?kbid=273017). Tracking down shutdown and power-off problems (they differ) can be somewhat difficult but may I suggest that you start by having a look at MS KB 273746 - "How to Troubleshoot Windows Me Shutdown Problems" (http://support.microsoft.com?kbid=273746) and then move on to Jim Eshelman's pages at http://aumha.org/win4/a/shutdown.htm and http://aumha.org/win4/a/shtdwnme.htm which cover this topic. Hopefully you will find advice there that will help your resolve your problem. The Windows Me Startup and Shutdown Troubleshooting Wizard is located in the Help and Support Centre in Windows Me or at the following Microsoft Web site: http://support.microsoft.com/support/windows/tshoot/ I've seen all manner of third party components causing shutdown problems such as you are seeing ranging from problems with audio drivers to even having to shutdown a firewall before shutting down so as to avoid the scandisk problem you are seeing. Regrettably this is where the hard work starts. Best of luck and please let us all know the culprit if you find the cause of your problems. -- Mike Maltby Michael J. Sykes wrote: Hello again! Please pardon my temporary absence...life intervened. You are correct that I first renamed the _Restore folder before deleting the renamed folder. I have also done the following: 1) I tested my System Restore as you suggested and it passed the test. 2) I uninstalled the Norton Utilities and Live Update programs. 3) I renamed the WININIT.INI file, and upon rebooting my computer created another WININIT.INI file. I tried repeating this test, and my computer shut down with no problem but ran scandisk upon restarting; it did NOT create a WININIT.INI file, however. 4) I ran the Belarc's Adviser program as you suggested, and it listed 17 installed "Microsoft Hotfixes" for WinME. All of the updates had a green check suggesting proper installation. It is possible that previous appearances of the %1 %2 error messages occurred after I installed or updated other programs on my computer. I also ran "Windows Update" and this Microsoft utility found no available critical updates for my computer. 5) I decided to install two non-critical Microsoft updates, including one which introduces a two second delay in the shut-down process to allow time for large HD's to finish transferring the content of their cache to disk. I very recently installed a big second HD (all my OS problems preceded this installation), and I reasoned that if addition of an exit sound helped a little, this delay might help more. When I tried to shut down my computer, it automatically restarted and ran scandisk due to "improper shutdown." The %1 %2 error messages did not occur, and a WININIT.INI file was NOT created. My computer did not restart the next time I shut it down, but when I booted it back up it ran scandisk due to "improper shutdown." The WININIT.INI file still has not reappeared. I have noticed that the likelihood of my shutdown problem seems roughly correlated with the number of programs I had opened, but my start-up problem occurs consistently. I have since restarted my computer another time or two and it still has not created another WININIT.INI file. I welcome suggestions regarding what I should do next. Regards, Mike "Mike M" wrote: Michael J. Sykes wrote: I decided to first follow the procedure in the Microsoft page you referenced (deleting the _RESTORE folder as you subsequently suggested). Mike, I'm not sure how you did this as the _RESTORE folder cannot be deleted from Win Me without hacking so I assume you mean the renamed folder OLDREST. Incidentally the procedure at 280369 is virtually the same as the instructions I posted - just a little more long winded. This has resulted in the apparent restoration of my System Restore. Thank you! Is there still a need to mess with my WININIT.INI file? If you have a wininit.ini file present after rebooting then you have problems and it is essential to establish why this is occurring. I also accessed the Windows update website which found one critical update for me to install. I know that I got those error messages after installing the last couple of updates, however. Do I need to do something else to ensure my security upgrades are up to date? You've almost certainly got loads of patches to reinstall. See my earlier post about running Belarc Adviser. When I rebooted after installing the new update, I saw no error messages. However it appears my shutdown and start-up problems were NOT solved by setting an exit sound for my computer (see my message above). I would welcome your suggestions. Let's try to walk before progressing to running. Let's get system restore working correctly and your PC fully patches and then we can consider other problems. Since you feel that system restore is working now I would strongly recommend the following quick test: a) Create a shortcut on your desktop to a file. b) Create a manual checkpoint Could you create a checkpoint? c) Delete the shortcut d) Restore your PC to the checkpoint you created. Was the shortcut restored? Did you see any error messages? e) Reboot your PC Was the checkpoint retained? Regarding the Symantec programs, I noticed Microsoft says the Norton System Works 2000 is not compatible with Win-ME; it specifically mentions the Norton Live Update feature causing problems. I have the 2001 version of Norton System Works; I have uninstalled the NAV program and disabled the live update (but still have the utilities). Do you think I'm safe or should I purge my computer of all Symantec programs? At the risk of repeating myself NO Symantec applications can be safely used with Win Me, especially so if you wish to use your PC and not end up with loads of problems. To my mind you have already demonstrated the truth of this. vbg -- Mike Maltby |
#15
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Problems with start-up, shutdown, restore... Should I reinsta
How can I prevent the
OS from trying to run this Networking program? Is there any reason I wouldn't want to stop it? Mike, This is often the result of having unwanted malware on a system. My primary HD is a 40 gb, 7200 rpm Maxtor. Do you think this 40gb HD may not have enough time to process its info during shutdown? I've already made a couple of suggestions as to the cause. I somewhat doubt that the problem is due to disk shutdown problems and that another cause such as a bad hardware driver not unloading is the primary cause of the problem. Best of luck, -- Mike Maltby Michael J. Sykes wrote: Thank you for the suggestions. I will report back (probably in a couple days) after I've followed them. However, I would first like to share one possible clue I neglected to previously mention. Every time scandisk runs after an "improper shutdown", a prompt subsequently appears asking me to enter my password for Microsoft Networking. I do not know what this is, nor do I have a password. So I hit the escape key (or click cancel) and then the OS finishes loading. On those fairly rare occasions that scandisk does not run upon start-up, I also do not get this password prompt. Does this shed any light on my shutdown/startup problem? How can I prevent the OS from trying to run this Networking program? Is there any reason I wouldn't want to stop it? Regarding my new big HD, it really isn't a factor. I only installed it to have an easy way to backup my C: drive (in advance of messing with my OS); I do not read or write any info to my new HD during most sessions. My primary HD is a 40 gb, 7200 rpm Maxtor. Do you think this 40gb HD may not have enough time to process its info during shutdown? |
#16
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Problems with start-up, shutdown, restore... Should I reinsta
Hi Mike,
I wanted to let you know that I may have discovered the cause of my shutdown problems: my ZoneAlarm firewall program. When I've tried closing this program before shutdown, I have not had shut-down or start-up problems. In addition, when I tried closing another program before ZoneAlarm had finishing closing (as may occur during shutdown), it caused my computer to reboot! It concerns me a bit that my start-up problem (i.e., scandisk) preceded my observable shut-down problem (i.e., computer restarts instead of shutting down). Nevertheless, I am guardedly optimistic. Thanks for the help! Regarding the issue of malware triggering the Microsoft networking program after an improper shutdown, I did have one suspicious file on my HD that my AV and spyware programs never flagged. It was suspicious because I could not delete or move it from within windows. Today, however, I tried to delete this file from DOS and succeeded. If my computer continues to start the Microsoft networking program after an improper shutdown (I do use a couple programs which occasionally crash my system), should I be concerned? Regards, Mike "Mike M" wrote: How can I prevent the OS from trying to run this Networking program? Is there any reason I wouldn't want to stop it? Mike, This is often the result of having unwanted malware on a system. My primary HD is a 40 gb, 7200 rpm Maxtor. Do you think this 40gb HD may not have enough time to process its info during shutdown? I've already made a couple of suggestions as to the cause. I somewhat doubt that the problem is due to disk shutdown problems and that another cause such as a bad hardware driver not unloading is the primary cause of the problem. Best of luck, -- Mike Maltby Michael J. Sykes wrote: Thank you for the suggestions. I will report back (probably in a couple days) after I've followed them. However, I would first like to share one possible clue I neglected to previously mention. Every time scandisk runs after an "improper shutdown", a prompt subsequently appears asking me to enter my password for Microsoft Networking. I do not know what this is, nor do I have a password. So I hit the escape key (or click cancel) and then the OS finishes loading. On those fairly rare occasions that scandisk does not run upon start-up, I also do not get this password prompt. Does this shed any light on my shutdown/startup problem? How can I prevent the OS from trying to run this Networking program? Is there any reason I wouldn't want to stop it? Regarding my new big HD, it really isn't a factor. I only installed it to have an easy way to backup my C: drive (in advance of messing with my OS); I do not read or write any info to my new HD during most sessions. My primary HD is a 40 gb, 7200 rpm Maxtor. Do you think this 40gb HD may not have enough time to process its info during shutdown? |
#17
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Problems with start-up, shutdown, restore... Should I reinsta
Mike,
Well done in establishing your shutdown problems are due to problems and delays in unloading Zone Alarm (probably vsmon.vxd). Now you mention this I do recall having seen one or two other posts where the user has similar problems that were also eventually traced to Zone Alarm. If my computer continues to start the Microsoft networking program after an improper shutdown (I do use a couple programs which occasionally crash my system), should I be concerned? I'm unclear as to why this only happens following an improper shutdown and wonder if this is perhaps due to a driver needing to be reinstalled on rebooting and the system trying to check that the driver is digitally signed or needs updating. -- Mike Maltby Michael J. Sykes wrote: I wanted to let you know that I may have discovered the cause of my shutdown problems: my ZoneAlarm firewall program. When I've tried closing this program before shutdown, I have not had shut-down or start-up problems. In addition, when I tried closing another program before ZoneAlarm had finishing closing (as may occur during shutdown), it caused my computer to reboot! It concerns me a bit that my start-up problem (i.e., scandisk) preceded my observable shut-down problem (i.e., computer restarts instead of shutting down). Nevertheless, I am guardedly optimistic. Thanks for the help! Regarding the issue of malware triggering the Microsoft networking program after an improper shutdown, I did have one suspicious file on my HD that my AV and spyware programs never flagged. It was suspicious because I could not delete or move it from within windows. Today, however, I tried to delete this file from DOS and succeeded. If my computer continues to start the Microsoft networking program after an improper shutdown (I do use a couple programs which occasionally crash my system), should I be concerned? |
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