system freeze as Youtube web page loads

Over the last three days, I've tried to access two separate youtube
links on two separate occasions to find the W98 system freezes as the
page is initially displayed. No keybd/mouse response. Required a
hardware reboot to recover. I don't normally access youtube, but had
done so in the previous week without problems.

First link was:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZM779jJJFo

The first time the problem occurred, I did a quick disk check - lost
clusters found (and repaired).

I retried the same link with number crunching background activity
disabled - with the same result. Repeated disk check and then
attempted to run defrag - incomplete after hitting a bad sector. This
was repaired by running a complete disk check, including the surface
test, after which the defrag would complete.

Retried the link a third time with number crunching disabled - with
the same result. Disk checked again without errors.

The failed attempt to reach a differing Youtube link today (same
system freeze), suggests that the problem wasn't going away by itself.

The browser used is still the older Mozilla 1.7.11 - no changes here
in over a year, and none expected in the future (without migrating to
firefox or seamonkey).

Trying for the same link using IE6 (rarely used but as up to date as
MS permits) I got a blue screen that would not recover but that
allowed a keybd ctrl/alt/del to reboot.

Repeating this (if only to note down the OE exception number) produced
normal performance.....?

Repeating the attempt using default Mozilla then also produced normal
performance.

What could be responsible for this strange behavior in this W98 2ed OS
(-8th year without reinstall)?

Of course the youtube link was a waste of time, as usual.

RL

"legg" wrote in message
news

Over the last three days, I've tried to access two separate youtube
links on two separate occasions to find the W98 system freezes as the
page is initially displayed. No keybd/mouse response. Required a
hardware reboot to recover. I don't normally access youtube, but had
done so in the previous week without problems.

First link was:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZM779jJJFo

The first time the problem occurred, I did a quick disk check - lost
clusters found (and repaired).

I retried the same link with number crunching background activity
disabled - with the same result. Repeated disk check and then
attempted to run defrag - incomplete after hitting a bad sector. This
was repaired by running a complete disk check, including the surface
test, after which the defrag would complete.

Retried the link a third time with number crunching disabled - with
the same result. Disk checked again without errors.

The failed attempt to reach a differing Youtube link today (same
system freeze), suggests that the problem wasn't going away by itself.

The browser used is still the older Mozilla 1.7.11 - no changes here
in over a year, and none expected in the future (without migrating to
firefox or seamonkey).

Trying for the same link using IE6 (rarely used but as up to date as
MS permits) I got a blue screen that would not recover but that
allowed a keybd ctrl/alt/del to reboot.

Repeating this (if only to note down the OE exception number) produced
normal performance.....?

Repeating the attempt using default Mozilla then also produced normal
performance.

What could be responsible for this strange behavior in this W98 2ed OS
(-8th year without reinstall)?

Of course the youtube link was a waste of time, as usual.



Are you using dial-up or DSL/cable ???

First off. If your drive is loosing clusters, I suggest you replace it.

Secondly, I generally suggest a RAM test to rule out the possibility of bad
H/W causing the problem.

Since there are a number of small, light browsers out there, you may want to
try a few and see if any of them are more reliable.

If not, then there are deeper issues. (Which I suspect)

LOST CLUSTERS DO NOT MEAN A BAD HARD DRIVE!!!!!

The rest of philo's post is worthless, but especially don't believe that
lost clusters means a bad hard drive. PHILO IS A CLASS "A" IDIOT!!!

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
www.grystmill.com

"philo" wrote in message
...


Are you using dial-up or DSL/cable ???

First off. If your drive is loosing clusters, I suggest you replace it.

Secondly, I generally suggest a RAM test to rule out the possibility of
bad
H/W causing the problem.

Since there are a number of small, light browsers out there, you may want
to
try a few and see if any of them are more reliable.

If not, then there are deeper issues. (Which I suspect)

On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 06:34:30 -0500, "philo" wrote:

What could be responsible for this strange behavior in this W98 2ed OS
(-8th year without reinstall)?

Of course the youtube link was a waste of time, as usual.



Are you using dial-up or DSL/cable ???

First off. If your drive is loosing clusters, I suggest you replace it.

Secondly, I generally suggest a RAM test to rule out the possibility of bad
H/W causing the problem.

Since there are a number of small, light browsers out there, you may want to
try a few and see if any of them are more reliable.

If not, then there are deeper issues. (Which I suspect)

It's DSL.

What about the 'self-correcting' behavior exhibited by OS after
running IE ? The fact that both browsers finally ran, after being
dysfunctional at the specific task for a week?

Is the flash utility used by both browsers being somehow straightened
out by IE6, even though it also crashed first time around?

This was the first time I'd ever seen a surface scan detect trouble on
ANY machine's hard drive, not just this one. Previous defrag in March
when it came out of back-up storage to receive and carry the current
OS (cloned from previous current HDD). Only it's third 4-month tour of
duty since purchase two years ago.

Are there any known programs that can mimic the characteristics of a
bad sector, possibly to avoid AV detection or other conventions?

I recently (oct'07- Mar'08) spent a considerable amount of time and
effort transfering to a new OS in a new machine using W2K on SATA HDD,
only to see the new system's NTFS partition crash and burn during a
'repair' operation, in its first 3 months of actual use as primary.

RL

The "lost clusters" likely happened because a file was in the middle of
being written when the crash occurred. Part of the file didn't get written,
and the part that did get written became lost clusters. Lost clusters also
frequently occur as a side-effect of cross-linked files (where head of file
one gets attached to tail of file two, leaving behind the rest of the two
files as lost clusters. They get fixed by deleting the info on the clusters
and adjusting that part of the FAT involved to show that the clusters are
available.

There are a couple of problems with lost clusters: 1. Was the data that got
lost (leaving lost clusters behind) and/or the data in the lost clusters
themselves, important. When Scandisk fixes lost clusters, you have the
choice of saving the data in CHK files. Unfortunately, when Scandisk runs
automatically after a bad shutdown, Microsoft's stupid default setting was
to delete the lost clusters without saving CHK files. This setting should be
changed in SCANDISK.INI (at the very bottom of the file.) The action should
be Save, not Delete.

I cannot explain the behavior of YouTube except that perhaps problems with
the Cache(s). Have you checked with YouTube Help to see if there isn't
something known there?

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
www.grystmill.com

"legg" wrote in message
news

Over the last three days, I've tried to access two separate youtube
links on two separate occasions to find the W98 system freezes as the
page is initially displayed. No keybd/mouse response. Required a
hardware reboot to recover. I don't normally access youtube, but had
done so in the previous week without problems.

First link was:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZM779jJJFo

The first time the problem occurred, I did a quick disk check - lost
clusters found (and repaired).

I retried the same link with number crunching background activity
disabled - with the same result. Repeated disk check and then
attempted to run defrag - incomplete after hitting a bad sector. This
was repaired by running a complete disk check, including the surface
test, after which the defrag would complete.

Retried the link a third time with number crunching disabled - with
the same result. Disk checked again without errors.

The failed attempt to reach a differing Youtube link today (same
system freeze), suggests that the problem wasn't going away by itself.

The browser used is still the older Mozilla 1.7.11 - no changes here
in over a year, and none expected in the future (without migrating to
firefox or seamonkey).

Trying for the same link using IE6 (rarely used but as up to date as
MS permits) I got a blue screen that would not recover but that
allowed a keybd ctrl/alt/del to reboot.

Repeating this (if only to note down the OE exception number) produced
normal performance.....?

Repeating the attempt using default Mozilla then also produced normal
performance.

What could be responsible for this strange behavior in this W98 2ed OS
(-8th year without reinstall)?

Of course the youtube link was a waste of time, as usual.

RL

On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 08:58:35 -0700, "Gary S. Terhune" none wrote:

The "lost clusters" likely happened because a file was in the middle of
being written when the crash occurred. Part of the file didn't get written,
and the part that did get written became lost clusters. Lost clusters also
frequently occur as a side-effect of cross-linked files (where head of file
one gets attached to tail of file two, leaving behind the rest of the two
files as lost clusters. They get fixed by deleting the info on the clusters
and adjusting that part of the FAT involved to show that the clusters are
available.

There are a couple of problems with lost clusters: 1. Was the data that got
lost (leaving lost clusters behind) and/or the data in the lost clusters
themselves, important. When Scandisk fixes lost clusters, you have the
choice of saving the data in CHK files. Unfortunately, when Scandisk runs
automatically after a bad shutdown, Microsoft's stupid default setting was
to delete the lost clusters without saving CHK files. This setting should be
changed in SCANDISK.INI (at the very bottom of the file.) The action should
be Save, not Delete.

I cannot explain the behavior of YouTube except that perhaps problems with
the Cache(s). Have you checked with YouTube Help to see if there isn't
something known there?

Guess what kind of advice I'll get from youtube, the minute I mention
W98 or Mozilla...? Even inquiries from users with WXP tend to get
idiot responses.

I believe the lost clusters were from the number crunching app running
during the crash. These didn't occur when the background app was
suspended.

I'm using the Norton disk checking tools, though I did run MS scandisk
(without surface scan) prior to running the full disk checking with
surface scan, overnight, as a doublecheck on why the speed-disk defrag
could not handle the damaged sector.

Presently, MS scandisk does not run automatically after a crash on
this machine's OS, though occassionally there will be a forced
start-up into safe mode. I handle scanning manually, and usually in
safe mode, as well.

I view this current system much like a road-weary automobile or rusty
ocean-going hulk with various protrusions knocked off in practical use
and some considerable barnacle growth remaining here and there.

RL

"legg" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 08:58:35 -0700, "Gary S. Terhune" none wrote:

The "lost clusters" likely happened because a file was in the middle of
being written when the crash occurred. Part of the file didn't get
written,
and the part that did get written became lost clusters. Lost clusters also
frequently occur as a side-effect of cross-linked files (where head of
file
one gets attached to tail of file two, leaving behind the rest of the two
files as lost clusters. They get fixed by deleting the info on the
clusters
and adjusting that part of the FAT involved to show that the clusters are
available.

There are a couple of problems with lost clusters: 1. Was the data that
got
lost (leaving lost clusters behind) and/or the data in the lost clusters
themselves, important. When Scandisk fixes lost clusters, you have the
choice of saving the data in CHK files. Unfortunately, when Scandisk runs
automatically after a bad shutdown, Microsoft's stupid default setting was
to delete the lost clusters without saving CHK files. This setting should
be
changed in SCANDISK.INI (at the very bottom of the file.) The action
should
be Save, not Delete.

I cannot explain the behavior of YouTube except that perhaps problems with
the Cache(s). Have you checked with YouTube Help to see if there isn't
something known there?

Guess what kind of advice I'll get from youtube, the minute I mention
W98 or Mozilla...? Even inquiries from users with WXP tend to get
idiot responses.

I was just thinking of "current site issues", FAQs, etc. Yeah, I can imagine
what kind of (non)assistance is available.

I believe the lost clusters were from the number crunching app running
during the crash. These didn't occur when the background app was
suspended.

Could be. Could be Temporary Internet Files or other cache files in
mid-download... The movie itself, even.

I'm using the Norton disk checking tools, though I did run MS scandisk
(without surface scan) prior to running the full disk checking with
surface scan, overnight, as a doublecheck on why the speed-disk defrag
could not handle the damaged sector.

What damaged sector? Please do not call "lost clusters" "damaged sectors".
The former is a software issue, the latter is a hardware issue. Or do you
have test results that point to "damaged sectors"?

Presently, MS scandisk does not run automatically after a crash on
this machine's OS, though occassionally there will be a forced
start-up into safe mode. I handle scanning manually, and usually in
safe mode, as well.

Good!

I view this current system much like a road-weary automobile or rusty
ocean-going hulk with various protrusions knocked off in practical use
and some considerable barnacle growth remaining here and there.

Sounds like fun, though I admit I'm a fan of fresh systems, s.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
www.grystmill.com

"legg" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 06:34:30 -0500, "philo" wrote:

What could be responsible for this strange behavior in this W98 2ed OS
(-8th year without reinstall)?

Of course the youtube link was a waste of time, as usual.



Are you using dial-up or DSL/cable ???

First off. If your drive is loosing clusters, I suggest you replace it.

Secondly, I generally suggest a RAM test to rule out the possibility of
bad
H/W causing the problem.

Since there are a number of small, light browsers out there, you may want
to
try a few and see if any of them are more reliable.

If not, then there are deeper issues. (Which I suspect)

It's DSL.

That's good...
I would have expected trouble with dial-up.



What about the 'self-correcting' behavior exhibited by OS after
running IE ? The fact that both browsers finally ran, after being
dysfunctional at the specific task for a week?

Is the flash utility used by both browsers being somehow straightened
out by IE6, even though it also crashed first time around?


Good question. The fact that it's happing with two different browsers leads
me to think
that perhaps flash is not loading correctly at first...
but I don't know how the fix that.
I'd still try some other browser.

I often use K-Meleon with no problems...but your results may differ of
course


This was the first time I'd ever seen a surface scan detect trouble on
ANY machine's hard drive, not just this one. Previous defrag in March
when it came out of back-up storage to receive and carry the current
OS (cloned from previous current HDD). Only it's third 4-month tour of
duty since purchase two years ago.

Are there any known programs that can mimic the characteristics of a
bad sector, possibly to avoid AV detection or other conventions?

I recently (oct'07- Mar'08) spent a considerable amount of time and
effort transfering to a new OS in a new machine using W2K on SATA HDD,
only to see the new system's NTFS partition crash and burn during a
'repair' operation, in its first 3 months of actual use as primary.


Ok...I'd have expected lost clusters from a bad shut down...but not a bad
cluster.

If finding a bad cluster is a one time thing...I would not worry about it...
but I would check the drive periodically. If you are getting bad clusters
then I'd say you have a drive problem...
but if you get no more bad clusters I would not worry about it.

Lost clusters are a minor issue. On the other hand, if you find a BAD
cluster, one that can't be written to and/or read from, then it's time to
replace the HD... Now, not later after you lose a bunch more data.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
www.grystmill.com

"philo" wrote in message
...

"legg" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 06:34:30 -0500, "philo" wrote:

What could be responsible for this strange behavior in this W98 2ed OS
(-8th year without reinstall)?

Of course the youtube link was a waste of time, as usual.



Are you using dial-up or DSL/cable ???

First off. If your drive is loosing clusters, I suggest you replace it.

Secondly, I generally suggest a RAM test to rule out the possibility of
bad
H/W causing the problem.

Since there are a number of small, light browsers out there, you may
want
to
try a few and see if any of them are more reliable.

If not, then there are deeper issues. (Which I suspect)

It's DSL.

That's good...
I would have expected trouble with dial-up.



What about the 'self-correcting' behavior exhibited by OS after
running IE ? The fact that both browsers finally ran, after being
dysfunctional at the specific task for a week?

Is the flash utility used by both browsers being somehow straightened
out by IE6, even though it also crashed first time around?


Good question. The fact that it's happing with two different browsers
leads
me to think
that perhaps flash is not loading correctly at first...
but I don't know how the fix that.
I'd still try some other browser.

I often use K-Meleon with no problems...but your results may differ of
course


This was the first time I'd ever seen a surface scan detect trouble on
ANY machine's hard drive, not just this one. Previous defrag in March
when it came out of back-up storage to receive and carry the current
OS (cloned from previous current HDD). Only it's third 4-month tour of
duty since purchase two years ago.

Are there any known programs that can mimic the characteristics of a
bad sector, possibly to avoid AV detection or other conventions?

I recently (oct'07- Mar'08) spent a considerable amount of time and
effort transfering to a new OS in a new machine using W2K on SATA HDD,
only to see the new system's NTFS partition crash and burn during a
'repair' operation, in its first 3 months of actual use as primary.


Ok...I'd have expected lost clusters from a bad shut down...but not a bad
cluster.

If finding a bad cluster is a one time thing...I would not worry about
it...
but I would check the drive periodically. If you are getting bad clusters
then I'd say you have a drive problem...
but if you get no more bad clusters I would not worry about it.

legg wrote:
| Over the last three days, I've tried to access two separate youtube
| links on two separate occasions to find the W98 system freezes as the
| page is initially displayed. No keybd/mouse response. Required a
| hardware reboot to recover. I don't normally access youtube, but had
| done so in the previous week without problems.
|
| First link was:
|
| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZM779jJJFo

(You made it SCARY to go, but...) that link worked for me using IE-- &
the first time! The screen came up real quick too! I am on dial-up,
though, & I must suffer through very choppy sound & video the first time
through-- it's incomprehensible! However, a 2nd playing is fine, which I
guess relies on TIFs (Temporary Internet Files). As you suspect, perhaps
an update of Flash is in order. As many have posted here (MEB was the
last)...

http://www.adobe.com/go/getflash
Adobe Flash Player version 9.0.124.0

That update goes quick & well. After it is done, at...

(a) C:\WINDOWS\Downloaded Program Files
(b) R-Clk "Shockwave Flash Object", Properties, Version tab,
should show v.9.0.124.0.

| The first time the problem occurred, I did a quick disk check - lost
| clusters found (and repaired).
|
| I retried the same link with number crunching background activity
| disabled - with the same result. Repeated disk check and then
| attempted to run defrag - incomplete after hitting a bad sector. This
| was repaired by running a complete disk check, including the surface
| test, after which the defrag would complete.
|
| Retried the link a third time with number crunching disabled - with
| the same result. Disk checked again without errors.
|
| The failed attempt to reach a differing Youtube link today (same
| system freeze), suggests that the problem wasn't going away by itself.
|
| The browser used is still the older Mozilla 1.7.11 - no changes here
| in over a year, and none expected in the future (without migrating to
| firefox or seamonkey).
|
| Trying for the same link using IE6 (rarely used but as up to date as
| MS permits) I got a blue screen that would not recover but that
| allowed a keybd ctrl/alt/del to reboot.
|
| Repeating this (if only to note down the OE exception number) produced
| normal performance.....?
|
| Repeating the attempt using default Mozilla then also produced normal
| performance.
|
| What could be responsible for this strange behavior in this W98 2ed OS
| (-8th year without reinstall)?
|
| Of course the youtube link was a waste of time, as usual.
|
| RL

--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
Should things get worse after this,
PCR