Problems with start-up, shutdown, restore... Should I reinstall?

Pardon me. I posted this inquiry before seeing your response.

Mike

"Mike M" wrote:

However, I did notice an option to "disable
scandisk after bad shutdown" which should eliminate one annoyance!

No, No, No. This is the very last thing you want to be doing.

Any ideas about restoring my System Restore?

Why ask this when a solution has already been suggested?
--
Mike Maltby



Michael J. Sykes wrote:

Thank you for your response. The first troubleshooting step was to
"disable fast shutdown" via the MSCONFIG advanced tab. When I tried,
however, I discovered there is no such option in the advanced menu of
my MSCONFIG program. However, I did notice an option to "disable
scandisk after bad shutdown" which should eliminate one annoyance!

I also noticed an option (checked) to "Enable DeepSleep". One
problem of my OS was that when it turned my display off due to a
period of inactivity, it was impossible to turn the display back on.
Therefore, I set the power management settings to prevent my computer
from shutting down the display. Might an alternative solution be to
uncheck the "enable DeepSleep" option?

In Step 3 of the troubleshooter, it mentions that some shutdown
problems have been solved by adding an exit sound when none was
previously present. Since I had no exit sound, I added one and then
successfully shut my computer down! It is too soon to tell whether
this problem is resolved since my shutdown problem is not as
consistent as my start-up problem. When I have been using my
computer for just a short time (without opening many programs), it
usually shuts down properly.

Any ideas about restoring my System Restore?

Hello again!

Please pardon my temporary absence...life intervened. You are correct that
I first renamed the _Restore folder before deleting the renamed folder. I
have also done the following:

1) I tested my System Restore as you suggested and it passed the test.

2) I uninstalled the Norton Utilities and Live Update programs.

3) I renamed the WININIT.INI file, and upon rebooting my computer created
another WININIT.INI file. I tried repeating this test, and my computer shut
down with no problem but ran scandisk upon restarting; it did NOT create a
WININIT.INI file, however.

4) I ran the Belarc's Adviser program as you suggested, and it listed 17
installed "Microsoft Hotfixes" for WinME. All of the updates had a green
check suggesting proper installation. It is possible that previous
appearances of the %1 %2 error messages occurred after I installed or updated
other programs on my computer. I also ran "Windows Update" and this
Microsoft utility found no available critical updates for my computer.

5) I decided to install two non-critical Microsoft updates, including one
which introduces a two second delay in the shut-down process to allow time
for large HD's to finish transferring the content of their cache to disk. I
very recently installed a big second HD (all my OS problems preceded this
installation), and I reasoned that if addition of an exit sound helped a
little, this delay might help more. When I tried to shut down my computer,
it automatically restarted and ran scandisk due to "improper shutdown." The
%1 %2 error messages did not occur, and a WININIT.INI file was NOT created.
My computer did not restart the next time I shut it down, but when I booted
it back up it ran scandisk due to "improper shutdown." The WININIT.INI file
still has not reappeared. I have noticed that the likelihood of my shutdown
problem seems roughly correlated with the number of programs I had opened,
but my start-up problem occurs consistently. I have since restarted my
computer another time or two and it still has not created another WININIT.INI
file.

I welcome suggestions regarding what I should do next.

Regards,

Mike

"Mike M" wrote:

Michael J. Sykes wrote:

I decided to first follow the procedure in the Microsoft page you
referenced (deleting the _RESTORE folder as you subsequently
suggested).

Mike,

I'm not sure how you did this as the _RESTORE folder cannot be deleted
from Win Me without hacking so I assume you mean the renamed folder
OLDREST. Incidentally the procedure at 280369 is virtually the same as
the instructions I posted - just a little more long winded.

This has resulted in the apparent restoration of my
System Restore. Thank you! Is there still a need to mess with my
WININIT.INI file?

If you have a wininit.ini file present after rebooting then you have
problems and it is essential to establish why this is occurring.

I also accessed the Windows update website which found one critical
update for me to install. I know that I got those error messages
after installing the last couple of updates, however. Do I need to
do something else to ensure my security upgrades are up to date?

You've almost certainly got loads of patches to reinstall. See my earlier
post about running Belarc Adviser.

When I rebooted after installing the new update, I saw no error
messages. However it appears my shutdown and start-up problems were
NOT solved by setting an exit sound for my computer (see my message
above). I would welcome your suggestions.

Let's try to walk before progressing to running. Let's get system restore
working correctly and your PC fully patches and then we can consider other
problems. Since you feel that system restore is working now I would
strongly recommend the following quick test:

a) Create a shortcut on your desktop to a file.
b) Create a manual checkpoint
Could you create a checkpoint?
c) Delete the shortcut
d) Restore your PC to the checkpoint you created.
Was the shortcut restored? Did you see any error messages?
e) Reboot your PC
Was the checkpoint retained?

Regarding the Symantec programs, I noticed Microsoft says the Norton
System Works 2000 is not compatible with Win-ME; it specifically
mentions the Norton Live Update feature causing problems. I have the
2001 version of Norton System Works; I have uninstalled the NAV
program and disabled the live update (but still have the utilities).
Do you think I'm safe or should I purge my computer of all Symantec
programs?

At the risk of repeating myself NO Symantec applications can be safely
used with Win Me, especially so if you wish to use your PC and not end up
with loads of problems. To my mind you have already demonstrated the
truth of this. vbg
--
Mike Maltby

Mike,

Please pardon my temporary absence...life intervened.

No need to apologise - we all have lives to live! vbg

So it appears that not only is system restore now OK but also that you
aren't getting a wininit.ini file being created each time you boot but
instead, more correctly, only when you are installing or upgrading a
component that requires a file that is currently in use to be upgraded
when you next reboot. It would also now appear that your problems are
primarily confined to improper shutdowns that result in scandisk running
when you next boot your system and that you have now installed the hotfix
that introduces a delay on shutdown to allow time for fast hard disks to
write cached data to the disk before they switch off.

You might want to try fiddling with the shutdown delay by editing the
registry and increasing the value of the DWORD CacheWriteDelay found at
HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion. This is useful where fast
hard disks are used that shutdown before all cached data has been written
to them. For more details see MS KB 273017 - "ScanDisk Runs Even Though
Windows Shut Down Correctly" (http://support.microsoft.com?kbid=273017).

Tracking down shutdown and power-off problems (they differ) can be
somewhat difficult but may I suggest that you start by having a look at MS
KB 273746 - "How to Troubleshoot Windows Me Shutdown Problems"
(http://support.microsoft.com?kbid=273746) and then move on to Jim
Eshelman's pages at http://aumha.org/win4/a/shutdown.htm and
http://aumha.org/win4/a/shtdwnme.htm which cover this topic. Hopefully
you will find advice there that will help your resolve your problem.

The Windows Me Startup and Shutdown Troubleshooting Wizard is located in
the Help and Support Centre in Windows Me or at the following Microsoft
Web site: http://support.microsoft.com/support/windows/tshoot/

I've seen all manner of third party components causing shutdown problems
such as you are seeing ranging from problems with audio drivers to even
having to shutdown a firewall before shutting down so as to avoid the
scandisk problem you are seeing. Regrettably this is where the hard work
starts.

Best of luck and please let us all know the culprit if you find the cause
of your problems.
--
Mike Maltby



Michael J. Sykes wrote:

Hello again!

Please pardon my temporary absence...life intervened. You are
correct that I first renamed the _Restore folder before deleting the
renamed folder. I have also done the following:

1) I tested my System Restore as you suggested and it passed the
test.

2) I uninstalled the Norton Utilities and Live Update programs.

3) I renamed the WININIT.INI file, and upon rebooting my computer
created another WININIT.INI file. I tried repeating this test, and
my computer shut down with no problem but ran scandisk upon
restarting; it did NOT create a WININIT.INI file, however.

4) I ran the Belarc's Adviser program as you suggested, and it
listed 17 installed "Microsoft Hotfixes" for WinME. All of the
updates had a green check suggesting proper installation. It is
possible that previous appearances of the %1 %2 error messages
occurred after I installed or updated other programs on my computer.
I also ran "Windows Update" and this Microsoft utility found no
available critical updates for my computer.

5) I decided to install two non-critical Microsoft updates,
including one which introduces a two second delay in the shut-down
process to allow time for large HD's to finish transferring the
content of their cache to disk. I very recently installed a big
second HD (all my OS problems preceded this installation), and I
reasoned that if addition of an exit sound helped a little, this
delay might help more. When I tried to shut down my computer, it
automatically restarted and ran scandisk due to "improper shutdown."
The %1 %2 error messages did not occur, and a WININIT.INI file was
NOT created. My computer did not restart the next time I shut it
down, but when I booted it back up it ran scandisk due to "improper
shutdown." The WININIT.INI file still has not reappeared. I have
noticed that the likelihood of my shutdown problem seems roughly
correlated with the number of programs I had opened, but my start-up
problem occurs consistently. I have since restarted my computer
another time or two and it still has not created another WININIT.INI
file.

I welcome suggestions regarding what I should do next.

Regards,

Mike

"Mike M" wrote:

Michael J. Sykes wrote:

I decided to first follow the procedure in the Microsoft page you
referenced (deleting the _RESTORE folder as you subsequently
suggested).

Mike,

I'm not sure how you did this as the _RESTORE folder cannot be
deleted from Win Me without hacking so I assume you mean the renamed
folder OLDREST. Incidentally the procedure at 280369 is virtually
the same as the instructions I posted - just a little more long
winded.

This has resulted in the apparent restoration of my
System Restore. Thank you! Is there still a need to mess with my
WININIT.INI file?

If you have a wininit.ini file present after rebooting then you have
problems and it is essential to establish why this is occurring.

I also accessed the Windows update website which found one critical
update for me to install. I know that I got those error messages
after installing the last couple of updates, however. Do I need to
do something else to ensure my security upgrades are up to date?

You've almost certainly got loads of patches to reinstall. See my
earlier post about running Belarc Adviser.

When I rebooted after installing the new update, I saw no error
messages. However it appears my shutdown and start-up problems were
NOT solved by setting an exit sound for my computer (see my message
above). I would welcome your suggestions.

Let's try to walk before progressing to running. Let's get system
restore working correctly and your PC fully patches and then we can
consider other problems. Since you feel that system restore is
working now I would strongly recommend the following quick test:

a) Create a shortcut on your desktop to a file.
b) Create a manual checkpoint
Could you create a checkpoint?
c) Delete the shortcut
d) Restore your PC to the checkpoint you created.
Was the shortcut restored? Did you see any error messages?
e) Reboot your PC
Was the checkpoint retained?

Regarding the Symantec programs, I noticed Microsoft says the Norton
System Works 2000 is not compatible with Win-ME; it specifically
mentions the Norton Live Update feature causing problems. I have
the 2001 version of Norton System Works; I have uninstalled the NAV
program and disabled the live update (but still have the utilities).
Do you think I'm safe or should I purge my computer of all Symantec
programs?

At the risk of repeating myself NO Symantec applications can be
safely used with Win Me, especially so if you wish to use your PC
and not end up with loads of problems. To my mind you have already
demonstrated the truth of this. vbg
--
Mike Maltby

Thank you for the suggestions. I will report back (probably in a couple
days) after I've followed them. However, I would first like to share one
possible clue I neglected to previously mention. Every time scandisk runs
after an "improper shutdown", a prompt subsequently appears asking me to
enter my password for Microsoft Networking. I do not know what this is, nor
do I have a password. So I hit the escape key (or click cancel) and then the
OS finishes loading. On those fairly rare occasions that scandisk does not
run upon start-up, I also do not get this password prompt. Does this shed
any light on my shutdown/startup problem? How can I prevent the OS from
trying to run this Networking program? Is there any reason I wouldn't want
to stop it?

Regarding my new big HD, it really isn't a factor. I only installed it to
have an easy way to backup my C: drive (in advance of messing with my OS); I
do not read or write any info to my new HD during most sessions. My primary
HD is a 40 gb, 7200 rpm Maxtor. Do you think this 40gb HD may not have
enough time to process its info during shutdown?

Regards,

Mike

"Mike M" wrote:

Mike,

Please pardon my temporary absence...life intervened.

No need to apologise - we all have lives to live! vbg

So it appears that not only is system restore now OK but also that you
aren't getting a wininit.ini file being created each time you boot but
instead, more correctly, only when you are installing or upgrading a
component that requires a file that is currently in use to be upgraded
when you next reboot. It would also now appear that your problems are
primarily confined to improper shutdowns that result in scandisk running
when you next boot your system and that you have now installed the hotfix
that introduces a delay on shutdown to allow time for fast hard disks to
write cached data to the disk before they switch off.

You might want to try fiddling with the shutdown delay by editing the
registry and increasing the value of the DWORD CacheWriteDelay found at
HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion. This is useful where fast
hard disks are used that shutdown before all cached data has been written
to them. For more details see MS KB 273017 - "ScanDisk Runs Even Though
Windows Shut Down Correctly" (http://support.microsoft.com?kbid=273017).

Tracking down shutdown and power-off problems (they differ) can be
somewhat difficult but may I suggest that you start by having a look at MS
KB 273746 - "How to Troubleshoot Windows Me Shutdown Problems"
(http://support.microsoft.com?kbid=273746) and then move on to Jim
Eshelman's pages at http://aumha.org/win4/a/shutdown.htm and
http://aumha.org/win4/a/shtdwnme.htm which cover this topic. Hopefully
you will find advice there that will help your resolve your problem.

The Windows Me Startup and Shutdown Troubleshooting Wizard is located in
the Help and Support Centre in Windows Me or at the following Microsoft
Web site: http://support.microsoft.com/support/windows/tshoot/

I've seen all manner of third party components causing shutdown problems
such as you are seeing ranging from problems with audio drivers to even
having to shutdown a firewall before shutting down so as to avoid the
scandisk problem you are seeing. Regrettably this is where the hard work
starts.

Best of luck and please let us all know the culprit if you find the cause
of your problems.
--
Mike Maltby



Michael J. Sykes wrote:

Hello again!

Please pardon my temporary absence...life intervened. You are
correct that I first renamed the _Restore folder before deleting the
renamed folder. I have also done the following:

1) I tested my System Restore as you suggested and it passed the
test.

2) I uninstalled the Norton Utilities and Live Update programs.

3) I renamed the WININIT.INI file, and upon rebooting my computer
created another WININIT.INI file. I tried repeating this test, and
my computer shut down with no problem but ran scandisk upon
restarting; it did NOT create a WININIT.INI file, however.

4) I ran the Belarc's Adviser program as you suggested, and it
listed 17 installed "Microsoft Hotfixes" for WinME. All of the
updates had a green check suggesting proper installation. It is
possible that previous appearances of the %1 %2 error messages
occurred after I installed or updated other programs on my computer.
I also ran "Windows Update" and this Microsoft utility found no
available critical updates for my computer.

5) I decided to install two non-critical Microsoft updates,
including one which introduces a two second delay in the shut-down
process to allow time for large HD's to finish transferring the
content of their cache to disk. I very recently installed a big
second HD (all my OS problems preceded this installation), and I
reasoned that if addition of an exit sound helped a little, this
delay might help more. When I tried to shut down my computer, it
automatically restarted and ran scandisk due to "improper shutdown."
The %1 %2 error messages did not occur, and a WININIT.INI file was
NOT created. My computer did not restart the next time I shut it
down, but when I booted it back up it ran scandisk due to "improper
shutdown." The WININIT.INI file still has not reappeared. I have
noticed that the likelihood of my shutdown problem seems roughly
correlated with the number of programs I had opened, but my start-up
problem occurs consistently. I have since restarted my computer
another time or two and it still has not created another WININIT.INI
file.

I welcome suggestions regarding what I should do next.

Regards,

Mike

"Mike M" wrote:

Michael J. Sykes wrote:

I decided to first follow the procedure in the Microsoft page you
referenced (deleting the _RESTORE folder as you subsequently
suggested).

Mike,

I'm not sure how you did this as the _RESTORE folder cannot be
deleted from Win Me without hacking so I assume you mean the renamed
folder OLDREST. Incidentally the procedure at 280369 is virtually
the same as the instructions I posted - just a little more long
winded.

This has resulted in the apparent restoration of my
System Restore. Thank you! Is there still a need to mess with my
WININIT.INI file?

If you have a wininit.ini file present after rebooting then you have
problems and it is essential to establish why this is occurring.

I also accessed the Windows update website which found one critical
update for me to install. I know that I got those error messages
after installing the last couple of updates, however. Do I need to
do something else to ensure my security upgrades are up to date?

You've almost certainly got loads of patches to reinstall. See my
earlier post about running Belarc Adviser.

When I rebooted after installing the new update, I saw no error
messages. However it appears my shutdown and start-up problems were
NOT solved by setting an exit sound for my computer (see my message
above). I would welcome your suggestions.

Let's try to walk before progressing to running. Let's get system
restore working correctly and your PC fully patches and then we can
consider other problems. Since you feel that system restore is
working now I would strongly recommend the following quick test:

a) Create a shortcut on your desktop to a file.
b) Create a manual checkpoint
Could you create a checkpoint?
c) Delete the shortcut
d) Restore your PC to the checkpoint you created.
Was the shortcut restored? Did you see any error messages?
e) Reboot your PC
Was the checkpoint retained?

Regarding the Symantec programs, I noticed Microsoft says the Norton
System Works 2000 is not compatible with Win-ME; it specifically
mentions the Norton Live Update feature causing problems. I have
the 2001 version of Norton System Works; I have uninstalled the NAV
program and disabled the live update (but still have the utilities).
Do you think I'm safe or should I purge my computer of all Symantec
programs?

At the risk of repeating myself NO Symantec applications can be
safely used with Win Me, especially so if you wish to use your PC
and not end up with loads of problems. To my mind you have already
demonstrated the truth of this. vbg
--
Mike Maltby

How can I prevent the
OS from trying to run this Networking program? Is there any reason I
wouldn't want to stop it?

Mike,

This is often the result of having unwanted malware on a system.

My primary HD is a 40 gb, 7200 rpm Maxtor. Do you think
this 40gb HD may not have enough time to process its info during
shutdown?

I've already made a couple of suggestions as to the cause. I somewhat
doubt that the problem is due to disk shutdown problems and that another
cause such as a bad hardware driver not unloading is the primary cause of
the problem.

Best of luck,
--
Mike Maltby



Michael J. Sykes wrote:

Thank you for the suggestions. I will report back (probably in a
couple days) after I've followed them. However, I would first like
to share one possible clue I neglected to previously mention. Every
time scandisk runs after an "improper shutdown", a prompt
subsequently appears asking me to enter my password for Microsoft
Networking. I do not know what this is, nor do I have a password.
So I hit the escape key (or click cancel) and then the OS finishes
loading. On those fairly rare occasions that scandisk does not run
upon start-up, I also do not get this password prompt. Does this
shed any light on my shutdown/startup problem? How can I prevent the
OS from trying to run this Networking program? Is there any reason I
wouldn't want to stop it?

Regarding my new big HD, it really isn't a factor. I only installed
it to have an easy way to backup my C: drive (in advance of messing
with my OS); I do not read or write any info to my new HD during most
sessions. My primary HD is a 40 gb, 7200 rpm Maxtor. Do you think
this 40gb HD may not have enough time to process its info during
shutdown?

Hi Mike,

I wanted to let you know that I may have discovered the cause of my shutdown
problems: my ZoneAlarm firewall program. When I've tried closing this
program before shutdown, I have not had shut-down or start-up problems. In
addition, when I tried closing another program before ZoneAlarm had finishing
closing (as may occur during shutdown), it caused my computer to reboot! It
concerns me a bit that my start-up problem (i.e., scandisk) preceded my
observable shut-down problem (i.e., computer restarts instead of shutting
down). Nevertheless, I am guardedly optimistic. Thanks for the help!

Regarding the issue of malware triggering the Microsoft networking program
after an improper shutdown, I did have one suspicious file on my HD that my
AV and spyware programs never flagged. It was suspicious because I could not
delete or move it from within windows. Today, however, I tried to delete
this file from DOS and succeeded. If my computer continues to start the
Microsoft networking program after an improper shutdown (I do use a couple
programs which occasionally crash my system), should I be concerned?

Regards,

Mike


"Mike M" wrote:

How can I prevent the
OS from trying to run this Networking program? Is there any reason I
wouldn't want to stop it?

Mike,

This is often the result of having unwanted malware on a system.

My primary HD is a 40 gb, 7200 rpm Maxtor. Do you think
this 40gb HD may not have enough time to process its info during
shutdown?

I've already made a couple of suggestions as to the cause. I somewhat
doubt that the problem is due to disk shutdown problems and that another
cause such as a bad hardware driver not unloading is the primary cause of
the problem.

Best of luck,
--
Mike Maltby



Michael J. Sykes wrote:

Thank you for the suggestions. I will report back (probably in a
couple days) after I've followed them. However, I would first like
to share one possible clue I neglected to previously mention. Every
time scandisk runs after an "improper shutdown", a prompt
subsequently appears asking me to enter my password for Microsoft
Networking. I do not know what this is, nor do I have a password.
So I hit the escape key (or click cancel) and then the OS finishes
loading. On those fairly rare occasions that scandisk does not run
upon start-up, I also do not get this password prompt. Does this
shed any light on my shutdown/startup problem? How can I prevent the
OS from trying to run this Networking program? Is there any reason I
wouldn't want to stop it?

Regarding my new big HD, it really isn't a factor. I only installed
it to have an easy way to backup my C: drive (in advance of messing
with my OS); I do not read or write any info to my new HD during most
sessions. My primary HD is a 40 gb, 7200 rpm Maxtor. Do you think
this 40gb HD may not have enough time to process its info during
shutdown?

Mike,

Well done in establishing your shutdown problems are due to problems and
delays in unloading Zone Alarm (probably vsmon.vxd). Now you mention this
I do recall having seen one or two other posts where the user has similar
problems that were also eventually traced to Zone Alarm.

If my computer continues to start the Microsoft networking program
after an improper shutdown (I do use a couple programs which
occasionally crash my system), should I be concerned?

I'm unclear as to why this only happens following an improper shutdown and
wonder if this is perhaps due to a driver needing to be reinstalled on
rebooting and the system trying to check that the driver is digitally
signed or needs updating.
--
Mike Maltby



Michael J. Sykes wrote:

I wanted to let you know that I may have discovered the cause of my
shutdown problems: my ZoneAlarm firewall program. When I've tried
closing this program before shutdown, I have not had shut-down or
start-up problems. In addition, when I tried closing another program
before ZoneAlarm had finishing closing (as may occur during
shutdown), it caused my computer to reboot! It concerns me a bit
that my start-up problem (i.e., scandisk) preceded my observable
shut-down problem (i.e., computer restarts instead of shutting down).
Nevertheless, I am guardedly optimistic. Thanks for the help!

Regarding the issue of malware triggering the Microsoft networking
program after an improper shutdown, I did have one suspicious file
on my HD that my AV and spyware programs never flagged. It was
suspicious because I could not delete or move it from within windows.
Today, however, I tried to delete this file from DOS and succeeded.
If my computer continues to start the Microsoft networking program
after an improper shutdown (I do use a couple programs which
occasionally crash my system), should I be concerned?