Safe Mode bootup after installing NIC

On 7 Oct 2005 23:42:26 -0700, put finger to
keyboard and composed:

To answer your first question:
When I am brought to the screen that has the list of bootup options,
"Safe Mode" is selected by default, so that if I don't choose another
option, it goes to Safe Mode automatically. Thus, according to you, I
"have 2 issues". What are these 2 issues?

This one and the bootup delay. Or maybe the two issues are related???

Can you please clarify the statement "[The NIC] would normally obtain
this address from the DHCP server within your DSL modem ." I don't
know what a DHCP server is. If this is "normally" what is supposed to
happen, does that mean my DSL modem is somehow defective or does it
simply mean it just doesn't work that way with the particular modem I
have?

DHCP is an automatic method by which your NIC is assigned an IP
address by a device acting as a DHCP server. In this case the device
would be your modem. You can see the address that your modem has given
you by running "winipcfg". In my case it is 10.1.1.3, in yours it may
be 192.168.x.x. If the modem is not communicating properly, then the
address would be 169.254.x.x.

Also, what do you mean by "You can avert this behaviour until you get
your modem"? I do have my modem. It was connected to the NIC at the
time that I booted up. It is a Westell, model 6100.
Thanks for your detailed response.
Patrick

Sorry, I had the erroneous impression that you had only gotten as far
as installing your NIC and that you hadn't as yet connected a modem.
The absence of the modem would have explained the bootup delay and may
have given you the false impression that Windows was hanging during
the boot process. That's why I asked you what you meant by "not
booting properly". I also have a socket 7 PC of around the same
vintage as yours. It stalls for about three minutes during booting if
the modem is powered down. When I first observed this behaviour I
spent quite some time looking for a non-existent problem.

-- Franc Zabkar

Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

Franc:

Thanks for your response. I'm afraid I didn't explain myself as
clearly as I should have, so let me give you all the details now:
The very FIRST time I installed the NIC and driver and then rebooted, I
got the long boot up that looked like the PC was hanging, but then it
did end up actually getting me to the desktop. But after another few
boots, it started booting into Safe Mode instead. During THAT time,
there was NOTHING attached to the NIC. Removing the NIC allowed me to
boot normally, with no problems.
Not knowing what to do, I brought the PC to a PC shop where a tech
simply put the NIC into another PCI slot and then the PC booted
normally. So I thought that was the fix to the problem, BUT, when I
went home and rebooted a few times, I started getting the long hanging
boot again. AND, once again, after a few more boot ups, it booted only
into Safe Mode. Thus, the long hanging boot always seemed to be a
precursor to the Safe Mode boot. Then I noticed that my modem was no
longer working either. At this point, there was still nothing
connected to the NIC.
Back home, I removed the NIC and driver again and then reinstalled
both. Once again, I got that long hanging boot up. Then, just to see
what would happen, I CONNECTED my DSL modem to the NIC and to the
splitter that I had just connected to my phone line. Right after doing
this, the PC rebooted itself into Safe Mode.
So, then I removed the NIC and reimaged my entire hard drive so I could
start with a clean slate. And that's where I am now.

Based upon what you wrote, I think perhaps that when I FIRST installed
the NIC, since nothing was attached to it, the long boot up was caused
by the futile search for the IP address. But WHY then would it
eventually boot into Safe Mode after booting a few more times?
Furthermore, why would it boot into Safe Mode immediately upon
connecting the DSL modem to the NIC? With the modem attached, the NIC
should be able to get the IP address it needs, right? I think you
can see now that we're not dealing simply with a problem of a slow
"hanging" bootup caused by a NIC not being able to get an IP address.
It ALWAYS eventually goes into Safe Mode.

Are you suggesting that I reinstall the NIC and driver, reboot, type in
winipcfg and see if the modem is not communicating properly by
checking if the assigned address is 169.254.x.x.?
Do you then want me to check the Configuration window of Control Panel
- Network?

Is it possible that my PC does not have all the Windows files
pertaining to networking that it needs? Do I need to try to install
these networking components from my Win98 CD?

Or is the problem just that my PC is too old to support this NIC?
Perhaps an older one would work.

My modem is an ISA card.
I do not have a LAN chip on my motherboard.

Thanks for your help with this.
Patrick

On 8 Oct 2005 19:15:47 -0700, put finger to
keyboard and composed:

Franc:

Thanks for your response. I'm afraid I didn't explain myself as
clearly as I should have, so let me give you all the details now:
The very FIRST time I installed the NIC and driver and then rebooted, I
got the long boot up that looked like the PC was hanging, but then it
did end up actually getting me to the desktop. But after another few
boots, it started booting into Safe Mode instead. During THAT time,
there was NOTHING attached to the NIC. Removing the NIC allowed me to
boot normally, with no problems.
Not knowing what to do, I brought the PC to a PC shop where a tech
simply put the NIC into another PCI slot and then the PC booted
normally. So I thought that was the fix to the problem, BUT, when I
went home and rebooted a few times, I started getting the long hanging
boot again. AND, once again, after a few more boot ups, it booted only
into Safe Mode. Thus, the long hanging boot always seemed to be a
precursor to the Safe Mode boot. Then I noticed that my modem was no
longer working either. At this point, there was still nothing
connected to the NIC.
Back home, I removed the NIC and driver again and then reinstalled
both. Once again, I got that long hanging boot up. Then, just to see
what would happen, I CONNECTED my DSL modem to the NIC and to the
splitter that I had just connected to my phone line. Right after doing
this, the PC rebooted itself into Safe Mode.

Do you mean that Windows completed booting normally, albeit with a
long delay? And do you mean that, after booting normally, you then
connected the modem, and Windows spontaneously rebooted itself into
Safe Mode? Or are you saying that the next manual reboot, with modem
attached, ended up in Safe Mode?

So, then I removed the NIC and reimaged my entire hard drive so I could
start with a clean slate. And that's where I am now.

Based upon what you wrote, I think perhaps that when I FIRST installed
the NIC, since nothing was attached to it, the long boot up was caused
by the futile search for the IP address.

It looks that way.

But WHY then would it
eventually boot into Safe Mode after booting a few more times?

PCI cards are assigned their resources at every bootup via Plug and
Play. It could be that you see the Safe mode problem only when an
incompatible set of resources is arrived at. If the system ever boots
properly, I would take note of the resource assignments and compare
them against those you see in Safe mode. You can do this using
msinfo32.exe.

Note that, whereas your motherboard's BIOS initially allocates the PnP
resources, Windows may choose to reallocate them in a different way.
Unfortunately when it does so, it writes the new resource table (ESCD
table) to the BIOS EEPROM chip. At the next boot your BIOS then once
again rewrites the ESCD table with a combination that *it* thinks is
most appropriate. At least I think that's how it works. If you would
prefer that Windows and BIOS did not compete against each other, go to
Device Manager, System Devices, Plug and Play BIOS, Properties,
Settings, and check the box marked "Disable NVRAM/ESCD updates".

Furthermore, why would it boot into Safe Mode immediately upon
connecting the DSL modem to the NIC? With the modem attached, the NIC
should be able to get the IP address it needs, right?

Yes, if you've configured your NIC to obtain an IP address
automatically. This is the default configuration.

I think you
can see now that we're not dealing simply with a problem of a slow
"hanging" bootup caused by a NIC not being able to get an IP address.

I agree.

It ALWAYS eventually goes into Safe Mode.

I notice that the "win" command has options for safe mode with and
without networking. There is also a "bootlog" option. If you become
desperate I'd experiment with those. It might be an idea to record the
resources and log files that result from each option.

Are you suggesting that I reinstall the NIC and driver, reboot, type in
winipcfg and see if the modem is not communicating properly by
checking if the assigned address is 169.254.x.x.?

The number you see there will tell you whether the NIC and modem are
communicating properly. If you see 169.254.x.x, then this tells you
that Windows assigned an IP address to the NIC, not the modem. I don't
think you need to reinstall anything, though.

Do you then want me to check the Configuration window of Control Panel
- Network?

That will show the adapters, protocols, services, and bindings.
Someone who is knowledgeable in this area may see something pertinent.

Is it possible that my PC does not have all the Windows files
pertaining to networking that it needs? Do I need to try to install
these networking components from my Win98 CD?

AFAIK the Configuration window alluded to above should tell you
whether any software component is missing.

Or is the problem just that my PC is too old to support this NIC?
Perhaps an older one would work.

My modem is an ISA card.

Mine is also an old PC. BTW, which motherboard do you have?

I have one ISA and one PCI NIC. Both work OK, unless their resources
are improperly allocated. Specifically, my ISA NIC misbehaves if I
install it on IRQ 12, but doing so never gives rise to safe mode
issues.

I can't think of any insurmountable reason why a NIC, whether ISA or
PCI, should not function in your system.

I do not have a LAN chip on my motherboard.

Thanks for your help with this.
Patrick

If you supply enough information, perhaps someone will see the
solution. At this point you haven't really given us much to work with.

-- Franc Zabkar

Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

It sounds like there may be a driver being installed by the NIC that is not getting
along with another driver on the system. A step-by-step confirmation boot or a
logged boot when it happens to freeze, might show what it is. But, from the fact it
is intermittent, or at least did not happen all the time, I am not clear that it is
the case here. :-\
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm


"Franc Zabkar" wrote in message
...
On 8 Oct 2005 19:15:47 -0700, put finger to
keyboard and composed:

Franc:

Thanks for your response. I'm afraid I didn't explain myself as
clearly as I should have, so let me give you all the details now:
The very FIRST time I installed the NIC and driver and then rebooted, I
got the long boot up that looked like the PC was hanging, but then it
did end up actually getting me to the desktop. But after another few
boots, it started booting into Safe Mode instead. During THAT time,
there was NOTHING attached to the NIC. Removing the NIC allowed me to
boot normally, with no problems.
Not knowing what to do, I brought the PC to a PC shop where a tech
simply put the NIC into another PCI slot and then the PC booted
normally. So I thought that was the fix to the problem, BUT, when I
went home and rebooted a few times, I started getting the long hanging
boot again. AND, once again, after a few more boot ups, it booted only
into Safe Mode. Thus, the long hanging boot always seemed to be a
precursor to the Safe Mode boot. Then I noticed that my modem was no
longer working either. At this point, there was still nothing
connected to the NIC.
Back home, I removed the NIC and driver again and then reinstalled
both. Once again, I got that long hanging boot up. Then, just to see
what would happen, I CONNECTED my DSL modem to the NIC and to the
splitter that I had just connected to my phone line. Right after doing
this, the PC rebooted itself into Safe Mode.

Do you mean that Windows completed booting normally, albeit with a
long delay? And do you mean that, after booting normally, you then
connected the modem, and Windows spontaneously rebooted itself into
Safe Mode? Or are you saying that the next manual reboot, with modem
attached, ended up in Safe Mode?

So, then I removed the NIC and reimaged my entire hard drive so I could
start with a clean slate. And that's where I am now.

Based upon what you wrote, I think perhaps that when I FIRST installed
the NIC, since nothing was attached to it, the long boot up was caused
by the futile search for the IP address.

It looks that way.

But WHY then would it
eventually boot into Safe Mode after booting a few more times?

PCI cards are assigned their resources at every bootup via Plug and
Play. It could be that you see the Safe mode problem only when an
incompatible set of resources is arrived at. If the system ever boots
properly, I would take note of the resource assignments and compare
them against those you see in Safe mode. You can do this using
msinfo32.exe.

Note that, whereas your motherboard's BIOS initially allocates the PnP
resources, Windows may choose to reallocate them in a different way.
Unfortunately when it does so, it writes the new resource table (ESCD
table) to the BIOS EEPROM chip. At the next boot your BIOS then once
again rewrites the ESCD table with a combination that *it* thinks is
most appropriate. At least I think that's how it works. If you would
prefer that Windows and BIOS did not compete against each other, go to
Device Manager, System Devices, Plug and Play BIOS, Properties,
Settings, and check the box marked "Disable NVRAM/ESCD updates".

Furthermore, why would it boot into Safe Mode immediately upon
connecting the DSL modem to the NIC? With the modem attached, the NIC
should be able to get the IP address it needs, right?

Yes, if you've configured your NIC to obtain an IP address
automatically. This is the default configuration.

I think you
can see now that we're not dealing simply with a problem of a slow
"hanging" bootup caused by a NIC not being able to get an IP address.

I agree.

It ALWAYS eventually goes into Safe Mode.

I notice that the "win" command has options for safe mode with and
without networking. There is also a "bootlog" option. If you become
desperate I'd experiment with those. It might be an idea to record the
resources and log files that result from each option.

Are you suggesting that I reinstall the NIC and driver, reboot, type in
winipcfg and see if the modem is not communicating properly by
checking if the assigned address is 169.254.x.x.?

The number you see there will tell you whether the NIC and modem are
communicating properly. If you see 169.254.x.x, then this tells you
that Windows assigned an IP address to the NIC, not the modem. I don't
think you need to reinstall anything, though.

Do you then want me to check the Configuration window of Control Panel
- Network?

That will show the adapters, protocols, services, and bindings.
Someone who is knowledgeable in this area may see something pertinent.

Is it possible that my PC does not have all the Windows files
pertaining to networking that it needs? Do I need to try to install
these networking components from my Win98 CD?

AFAIK the Configuration window alluded to above should tell you
whether any software component is missing.

Or is the problem just that my PC is too old to support this NIC?
Perhaps an older one would work.

My modem is an ISA card.

Mine is also an old PC. BTW, which motherboard do you have?

I have one ISA and one PCI NIC. Both work OK, unless their resources
are improperly allocated. Specifically, my ISA NIC misbehaves if I
install it on IRQ 12, but doing so never gives rise to safe mode
issues.

I can't think of any insurmountable reason why a NIC, whether ISA or
PCI, should not function in your system.

I do not have a LAN chip on my motherboard.

Thanks for your help with this.
Patrick

If you supply enough information, perhaps someone will see the
solution. At this point you haven't really given us much to work with.

-- Franc Zabkar

Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

I ran your problem by some other MVPs and one of them made the astute observation
that your system is "obviously rather aged" and may have had an underpowered Power
Supply Unit (PSU), with the addition of a NIC (any NIC) being the straw that breaks
the camel's back.

You may want to try a larger replacement PSU. Have a look at what wattage your
current PSU supplies, and also look at all the power draws on the system (hard
drives, optical drives, AGP card, USB devices, and so forth).
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm


wrote in message
oups.com...
Franc:

Thanks for your response. I'm afraid I didn't explain myself as
clearly as I should have, so let me give you all the details now:
The very FIRST time I installed the NIC and driver and then rebooted, I
got the long boot up that looked like the PC was hanging, but then it
did end up actually getting me to the desktop. But after another few
boots, it started booting into Safe Mode instead. During THAT time,
there was NOTHING attached to the NIC. Removing the NIC allowed me to
boot normally, with no problems.
Not knowing what to do, I brought the PC to a PC shop where a tech
simply put the NIC into another PCI slot and then the PC booted
normally. So I thought that was the fix to the problem, BUT, when I
went home and rebooted a few times, I started getting the long hanging
boot again. AND, once again, after a few more boot ups, it booted only
into Safe Mode. Thus, the long hanging boot always seemed to be a
precursor to the Safe Mode boot. Then I noticed that my modem was no
longer working either. At this point, there was still nothing
connected to the NIC.
Back home, I removed the NIC and driver again and then reinstalled
both. Once again, I got that long hanging boot up. Then, just to see
what would happen, I CONNECTED my DSL modem to the NIC and to the
splitter that I had just connected to my phone line. Right after doing
this, the PC rebooted itself into Safe Mode.
So, then I removed the NIC and reimaged my entire hard drive so I could
start with a clean slate. And that's where I am now.

Based upon what you wrote, I think perhaps that when I FIRST installed
the NIC, since nothing was attached to it, the long boot up was caused
by the futile search for the IP address. But WHY then would it
eventually boot into Safe Mode after booting a few more times?
Furthermore, why would it boot into Safe Mode immediately upon
connecting the DSL modem to the NIC? With the modem attached, the NIC
should be able to get the IP address it needs, right? I think you
can see now that we're not dealing simply with a problem of a slow
"hanging" bootup caused by a NIC not being able to get an IP address.
It ALWAYS eventually goes into Safe Mode.

Are you suggesting that I reinstall the NIC and driver, reboot, type in
winipcfg and see if the modem is not communicating properly by
checking if the assigned address is 169.254.x.x.?
Do you then want me to check the Configuration window of Control Panel
- Network?

Is it possible that my PC does not have all the Windows files
pertaining to networking that it needs? Do I need to try to install
these networking components from my Win98 CD?

Or is the problem just that my PC is too old to support this NIC?
Perhaps an older one would work.

My modem is an ISA card.
I do not have a LAN chip on my motherboard.

Thanks for your help with this.
Patrick

On Sun, 9 Oct 2005 02:03:35 -0400, "glee"
put finger to keyboard and composed:

It sounds like there may be a driver being installed by the NIC that is not getting
along with another driver on the system. A step-by-step confirmation boot or a
logged boot when it happens to freeze, might show what it is. But, from the fact it
is intermittent, or at least did not happen all the time, I am not clear that it is
the case here. :-\

I looked around at Google Groups. It appears that the OP's problem is
quite common. Unfortunately there weren't too many solutions. One
person solved his problem by swapping PCI slots, suggesting that his
was a resource issue. Another found that replacing Microsoft's default
NIC driver with the manufacturer's one solved his problem. IME old ISA
NICs were supplied with a DOS based setup program that allowed you to
lock the card's resources. These resource assignments would be written
to the card's serial EEPROM chip, preventing PnP from changing them.
Windows would then see the card as a standard NE2000 compatible and
load the standard Novell drivers. Maybe that's one option the OP could
consider, assuming it is available to him.

-- Franc Zabkar

Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

On Sun, 9 Oct 2005 15:50:31 -0400, "glee"
put finger to keyboard and composed:

I ran your problem by some other MVPs and one of them made the astute observation
that your system is "obviously rather aged" and may have had an underpowered Power
Supply Unit (PSU), with the addition of a NIC (any NIC) being the straw that breaks
the camel's back.

You may want to try a larger replacement PSU. Have a look at what wattage your
current PSU supplies, and also look at all the power draws on the system (hard
drives, optical drives, AGP card, USB devices, and so forth).

The power consumption of a typical NIC would be extremely low (5V @
0.5A ?), certainly far less than the extra power required for the CPU
to switch from idle mode to a "high power" mode, and probably
significantly less than that required for a HD to spin up. If the PSU
were really that marginal, then I'd expect the system to misbehave
whenever the CD ROM drive spins a disc. But then I've seen stranger
things ...

The OP may be able to eliminate the possibility of a marginal PSU by
disconnecting his CD ROM drive. Alternatively he could install CPUidle
which drastically reduces the power consumption of the CPU.

-- Franc Zabkar

Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

Franc:
You wrote: If you supply enough information, perhaps someone will see
the solution. At this point you haven't really given us much to work
with.

The motherboard is an Intel AN430TX . As I said in my initial post,
the PC is quite old -- 8 years, in fact.
What other information would you like?

glee wrote:
I ran your problem by some other MVPs and one of them made the astute observation
that your system is "obviously rather aged" and may have had an underpowered Power
Supply Unit (PSU), with the addition of a NIC (any NIC) being the straw that breaks
the camel's back.

My power supply is 200 watts. I don't know about the power draw of the
other devices. All I can say is that I have 2 Hard Drives, 2 CD
Drives, a Zip Drive, a modem, TV tuner card, Promise IDE card, PCI
video card, and now a NIC.

Franc Zabkar wrote:
Do you mean that Windows completed booting normally, albeit with a
long delay? And do you mean that, after booting normally, you then
connected the modem, and Windows spontaneously rebooted itself into
Safe Mode?
Yes, spontaneously.
But the next manual reboot, with modem attached would also put me in
Safe Mode. Once I get the first Safe Mode boot, I can't go back to any
other type of bootup, hanging or not, without uninstalling the NIC.

Franc wrote
I can't think of any insurmountable reason why a NIC, whether ISA or
PCI, should not function in your system.

What if the NIC requires a version of PCI that my old PC does not have?
Would that be an insurmountable reason? My motherboard is supposed
to be PCI 2.1 compliant, but who knows for sure? Maybe the NIC thinks
it isn't.