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Making Win98 work on the internet



 
 
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  #11  
Old March 9th 12, 06:23 PM posted to microsoft.public.win98.internet.windows_update,microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
Lostgallifreyan
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Posts: 1,562
Default Making Win98 work on the internet

wrote in :

I suggest making a dual booting system withg 98 and 2000. Thats what I
have. I mostly just use 2000 for easy access to USB stuff. Win98 is
still the best OS, but it's lousy with USB support.



Check out NUSB. It replaces some core sysfiles, so maybe best to do at
install. If using a via chipset, use the Via USB2 hub driver file, rather
than the one supplied with NUSB (extracted from W2K). NUSB is very effective
USB support for W98, including a proper 'eject' taskbar icon that allows
manual cache flushing and safe disconnect. It disgusted me when I first tried
it, seeign conflicts with stuff I'd done to a well established system, but I
later tried it on a clean reduced install, and it amazed me.

I'm building a very tiny W98, a project I call X98, that uses NUSB files as
part of it. I left off the project to learn C and API coding because I was
sorely driven to it after years of resistance, but I still intend to finish
X98 enough to publish details of how to build it. Apart from lacking a
network module, X98 is workable, it has a very tiny core module (with
probably the smallest starting registry ever found in a Windows system) that
runs basic API-based programs in protected mode with GUI, and an 'inst'
module that allows general hardware install with no reboots in most cases,
all done in a Windows session. Anyway, NUSB is a big part of why that project
is something I'll finish, it gives a huge boost to W98, no more awkwardness
with mass storage drivers, etc.

(Just letting people know I haven't forgotten, or given up...)
  #12  
Old March 10th 12, 12:03 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.internet.windows_update,microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
J. P. Gilliver (John)
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 1,554
Default Making Win98 work on the internet

In message , Alan
Justice writes:
[]
It's not that I'm married to Win98. What's the latest OS I can update to on
this machine? And how much will it help?


With 256M of RAM, I'd not try XP. Can you not up the RAM?

I only have dial-up. DSL has just been introduced to my area, but I can't
get it through Earthlink, only the phone company (Frontier, which bought
Verizon). I need to keep Earthlink because of my business web site.


I take it from those names that you're in the USA, so I don't know if
wireless internet (i. e. via the mobile 'phone network) is available
where you are. (It's available, though somewhat expensive, in most of
the UK.)

I do have a more recent computer (XP, 2.8 GHz, 2 GB SD RAM) that I use for
image processing, but since I finally got a digital camera, I may want to
update that and replace my internet computer with it.

Hmm, I suppose your digital camera has oodles of megapixels, and you're
intending to use it at maximum resolution all the time )-:.

As to whether your old 500MHz machine or the one you describe above will
be better, I think it all depends on whether you can get better than
dialup. Obviously the 2.8 GHz machine will be better, even with the
overhead of XP, but in practice, it is going to be the dialup that
limits your use: I would say that, to a first approximation, the web
part of the internet is more or less unusable via dialup these days - a
sufficient proportion of web designers design assuming everyone has
broadband.

If you do have to stick with dialup, I'd say the 500MHz machine is
capable of supporting most of the internet that it's possible for you to
access. I'd get the last Firefox (I think it's 2.0.0.20) that runs on
'98 without Kernelex. Do you have a USB stick that works with your 98
machine? If not, get the universal USB driver - either NUSB or the
Italian solution (which seems better to me). With a good browser
(Firefox or one of the others - anything but IE), and USB that works,
_I_ think your 500MHz/W98 machine will be capable of doing all you need
while you're limited to dialup. Once you get a faster link, then the XP
machine will be more than sufficient (I'm typing this on a 1.6GHz XP
netbook) and the '98 machine won't, but if you buy something new, it'll
be able to - and quite possibly better at - doing all the internet you
could want _as well as_ the image manipulation you'd be buying it for.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If you believe in telekinesis, raise my right hand
  #13  
Old March 10th 12, 02:02 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.internet.windows_update,microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
Lostgallifreyan
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Posts: 1,562
Default Making Win98 work on the internet

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in
:

either NUSB or the
Italian solution (which seems better to me).


What is it? I want to check it out.
  #14  
Old March 10th 12, 02:15 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.internet.windows_update,microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
Lostgallifreyan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,562
Default Making Win98 work on the internet

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in
:

With a good browser
(Firefox or one of the others - anything but IE), and USB that works,
_I_ think your 500MHz/W98 machine will be capable of doing all you need
while you're limited to dialup. Once you get a faster link, then the XP
machine will be more than sufficient


It is logical to think that, but I'd go with the faster machine for internet,
even on dialup, which can cause delays, timeouts, and older net software
might more likely seize up in that condition, and hose the OS session too. I
used to see this a lot when I had dial-up, and broadband made the 550 MHz AMD
machine I used then, seem faster and better, mainly because it didn't have
umpteen timers waiting for connections to complete every time I used a
browser. Optimising this stuff baked noodles to the point where many web
sites set up to handle the details for people. Lots of registry tweaks...
It's much easier to use WXP on a fast machine to get that kind of performance
without the tweaking. Even W98 will work better there, for same reason, speed
of both line, and machine, but WXP will give more choices with less effort,
for an internet-only machine.

(It's not just net access that suffers from slight restrictions on pipeline
speed, XviD playback does too. If the flow were smooth and perfectly
regulated, it would be find on a slow machine but it isn't smooth, if it
peaks, clpis, it broadens the spike of peak demand, slows more, causes
backlog, and eventually seizes. A good analogy is throwing a ball down a
pipe. If the pipe is big enough, it sails effortlessly out the other end, but
if it hits the side ONCE, it bounces ever more rapidly, repeatedly, quickly
losing speed and stalling. On a slow line, a fast machine is about as much
use as throwing that ball harder down a narrow pipe. It just stalls more
dramatically.
  #15  
Old March 10th 12, 02:17 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.internet.windows_update,microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
Lostgallifreyan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,562
Default Making Win98 work on the internet

Lostgallifreyan wrote in
:

On a slow line, a fast machine is about as much
use as throwing that ball harder down a narrow pipe. It just stalls more
dramatically.


Which might contradict what I said about choosing the faster machine! But I
said that because it will run WXP and other newer net software, and more
likely have better flow regulation and connection handling in general.
  #16  
Old March 10th 12, 03:46 PM posted to microsoft.public.win98.internet.windows_update,microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
J. P. Gilliver (John)
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 1,554
Default Making Win98 work on the internet (now USB)

In message ,
Lostgallifreyan writes:
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in
:

either NUSB or the
Italian solution (which seems better to me).


What is it? I want to check it out.


Three ways to get USB (sticks, anyway - not sure about other devices)
working on '98.

1. The driver that comes with the stick (hardly ever now!), or from the
website of the manufacturer. Even assuming you can get hold of it, IME
it's pot luck as to whether it will actually work. I presume that, if it
does work, it's going to be quite good.

2. The universal USB driver, often called NUSB. There are several
iterations - probably go for the latest for a first try, but some people
have found earlier ones work better for them. The instructions for it
say to remove any other USB drivers you may have before installing it; I
don't know if it is always the case, but certainly when I tried it
_without_ uninstalling other drivers (I was reluctant to remove
something that was working!), it screwed things up right royally, and I
had to work quite hard to get it back to a working condition (IIRR - it
was some while ago - even ERU/ERD didn't restore things). On the other
hand, I've built a system from new using it (actually as part of the
"Windows 98 tenth anniversary edition"), and that worked like a dream:
it recognised any stick plugged into it, much as XP does.

Both of the above methods advise installing the software before
connecting the device. Method 3 does not: to quote what someone else
said ("glee" in the post I've found and am copying from): "It is not
installed beforehand like some other generic drivers; rather you point
to it when Windows first detects the inserted thumb drive, as you can
see from the pictures on the web pages, even if you cannot read
Italian."

3. "The Italian method" (or job if you like!), for obvious reason. You
get the file, and unzip it to anywhere, obviously I'd recommend an empty
folder, and then point the system to that folder _when you insert a
previously-unknown drive and it asks for a driver for it_. The site is
http://www.wintricks.it/faq/usbpen98.html - it's a series of linked
pages leading you through the process (though it's fairly obvious to
anyone with Windows driver loading experience), with each page having a
link near the bottom to the next one: the actual downlaod is at the end
of the sixth and last page (and is
http://www.wintricks.it/download/wtgenusb.zip, though I'd at least
glance through the pages if I were you).

I must say I haven't actually used it; I just liked the idea of only
installing a driver, when needed, rather than running an installer
beforehand, in the hope that it'll work, and not do lots of other
things. The files in the .zip are only .inf and so on, the sort of thing
that needs to be there as a driver - no .exe files.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If it's not on fire, it's a software problem.
  #17  
Old March 10th 12, 03:55 PM posted to microsoft.public.win98.internet.windows_update,microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
J. P. Gilliver (John)
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 1,554
Default Making Win98 work on the internet

In message ,
Lostgallifreyan writes:
[]
(It's not just net access that suffers from slight restrictions on pipeline
speed, XviD playback does too. If the flow were smooth and perfectly
regulated, it would be find on a slow machine but it isn't smooth, if it
peaks, clpis, it broadens the spike of peak demand, slows more, causes
backlog, and eventually seizes. A good analogy is throwing a ball down a
pipe. If the pipe is big enough, it sails effortlessly out the other end, but
if it hits the side ONCE, it bounces ever more rapidly, repeatedly, quickly
losing speed and stalling. On a slow line, a fast machine is about as much
use as throwing that ball harder down a narrow pipe. It just stalls more
dramatically.


Good analogy!

When I said "net access" I was being sloppy - I meant anything that
involves getting something over the internet, not just browser use. If
you're playing an XviD file from a remote source, even if via ftp,
streaming, or similar, I'd agree. (Ideally you'd need a way of telling
the player to buffer a large proportion of the file before it starts
playing, but many players don't have that option, or it isn't obvious
anyway. Or just download the whole file before starting, but that may
conceivably not always be possible.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The main and the most glorious achievement of television is that it is killing
the art of conversation. If we think of the type of conversation television is
helping to kill, our gratitude must be undying. (George Mikes, "How to be
Inimitable" [1960].)
  #18  
Old March 10th 12, 07:20 PM posted to microsoft.public.win98.internet.windows_update,microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
98 Guy
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 2,951
Default Making Win98 work on the internet (now USB)

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote:

Three ways to get USB working on '98.


If you have a motherboard based on the Intel 845 chipset (and possibly
other 8xx chips) then look he

http://www.tacktech.com/news.cfm?sub...troller-driver

10.07.2002 - OrangeWare/Intel® USB 2.0 Enhanced Host Controller driver

Under the Driver File Details for the Intel USB 2.0 Enhanced Host
Controller on my win-98 system, I have 3 files listed:

- iusbehci.sys (USB 2.0 enhanced host controller driver, Orangeware)
- iusb2hub.sys (USB 2.0 hub driver, Orangeware Corp, version 1.1.0.2)

I generally find that I can plug in a new USB thumb drive without the
system complaining too much. It seems to always find what it's looking
for. I have a few Kingston Data Traveller drives, as well as some
"Super Talent" 8 and 16 gb thumb drives that just work when I plug
them in.

Here's a direct download link:

http://downloadcenter.intel.com/Deta...g&DwnldID=5498
  #19  
Old March 11th 12, 12:26 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.internet.windows_update,microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
Bill in Co
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 701
Default Making Win98 work on the internet (now USB)

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message ,
Lostgallifreyan writes:
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in
:

either NUSB or the
Italian solution (which seems better to me).


What is it? I want to check it out.


Three ways to get USB (sticks, anyway - not sure about other devices)
working on '98.

1. The driver that comes with the stick (hardly ever now!), or from the
website of the manufacturer. Even assuming you can get hold of it, IME
it's pot luck as to whether it will actually work. I presume that, if it
does work, it's going to be quite good.

2. The universal USB driver, often called NUSB. There are several
iterations - probably go for the latest for a first try, but some people
have found earlier ones work better for them. The instructions for it
say to remove any other USB drivers you may have before installing it;


(at least for the newer, 3.x versions, although it may have been
"recommended" for the older versions too - see my comments below):

I don't know if it is always the case, but certainly when I tried it
_without_ uninstalling other drivers (I was reluctant to remove
something that was working!), it screwed things up right royally, and I
had to work quite hard to get it back to a working condition (IIRR - it
was some while ago - even ERU/ERD didn't restore things). On the other
hand, I've built a system from new using it (actually as part of the
"Windows 98 tenth anniversary edition"), and that worked like a dream:
it recognised any stick plugged into it, much as XP does.


In just checking over my notes, I seem to recall that if you stuck with the
older 2.x nusb versions (like nusb23e.exe), instead of the newer 3.x
versions, you just may be able to get away with NOT having to uninstall all
the USB drivers first. And that's what I did on my old Win98SE system - I
used the older nusb23e driver, and did NOT uninstall all the USB drivers
first (as is now strongly recommended, or perhaps even required, in the
later versions). And it worked fine for me! So, I'd recommend he first
make a backup image or clone of his system, and then try it with the older
version, and he just might save a lot of hassle, like I did. If it doesn't
work out in his case, he can always roll back the image.

Both of the above methods advise installing the software before
connecting the device. Method 3 does not: to quote what someone else
said ("glee" in the post I've found and am copying from): "It is not
installed beforehand like some other generic drivers; rather you point
to it when Windows first detects the inserted thumb drive, as you can
see from the pictures on the web pages, even if you cannot read
Italian."


snip


  #20  
Old March 11th 12, 12:53 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.internet.windows_update,microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
Lostgallifreyan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,562
Default Making Win98 work on the internet (now USB)

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in
:

3. "The Italian method" (or job if you like!)


I did but I could have done without that wretched song.
I think NUSB wins there though. That's because it's not a 'driver' as such,
in the sense of one applied at specific need. It really is the core
subsystem, coherent and complete. It's got files from W2K and WME, usually
works natively but for Via machines needs USBHUB2.SYS from the Via driver
set. Apart from that it basically is true machine-independent support.
Installing beforehand for that isn't a disadvantage because it's logically
the same as expecting to install the OS before running programs. At first I
thought of this as a weakness, when it broke an existing OS, till I realised
that this was only because I'd already customised my OS before safe
recognition. But in any base install, NUSB ought to go in. Other methods
might be better for times when fast access is needed for some specific device
where other trused, specific drivers, aren't getting at it.
 




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