Booting up on a USB flash drive?

I assume that in order to be able to boot up on a USB flash drive (in DOS),
the BIOS in the computer must allow for that option to be selected. And if
the computer is too old (like 2002), it likely won't.

Case in point: My old Dell Win98 computer here doesn't seem to have this
option when I go into BIOS. The ONLY options listed in its BIOS a

Floppy
ARMD-FDD (for zip drives, as I recall)
ARMD-HDD (for zip drives, as I recall)
IDE-HDD
ATAPI CDROM

Is there a workaround? Not that it's necessary, but it might be nice to
have.

I do have a USB2 card in this computer (allowing me USB2 access *in
Windows*), and had also installed nusb23 for its storage drivers, but I
don't think these are of any help here if BIOS can't even show the options.
And I have the latest BIOS update for this computer (circa 2002).

On 7/17/2012 12:17 AM, Bill in Co wrote:
I assume that in order to be able to boot up on a USB flash drive (in DOS),
the BIOS in the computer must allow for that option to be selected. And if
the computer is too old (like 2002), it likely won't.

Case in point: My old Dell Win98 computer here doesn't seem to have this
option when I go into BIOS. The ONLY options listed in its BIOS a

Floppy
ARMD-FDD (for zip drives, as I recall)
ARMD-HDD (for zip drives, as I recall)
IDE-HDD
ATAPI CDROM

Is there a workaround? Not that it's necessary, but it might be nice to
have.

I do have a USB2 card in this computer (allowing me USB2 access *in
Windows*), and had also installed nusb23 for its storage drivers, but I
don't think these are of any help here if BIOS can't even show the options.
And I have the latest BIOS update for this computer (circa 2002).




Bill in Co:

If you boot DOS from a device your MB allows you to boot from you CAN
get access to USB *storage* devices from DOS, you just have to load
the right drivers.

In CONFIG.SYS

device=USBASPI.SYS /w /v
device=DI1000DD.SYS

USBASPI.SYS is available in the self extracting archive
"kxlrw40an.exe" at:
http://panasonic.jp/com/support/driv.../kxlrw40an.exe
The /w switch pauses and displays a bessage to connect a USB device.
The /v switch displays verbose messages.

DI1000DD.SYS is available in the archive "mhairu.zip" at:
http://www.stefan2000.com/darkehorse...USB/mhairu.zip


I found these several years ago and have used it with DOS boot
floppies and CDs. Very handy to have access to stuff from DOS. The USB
storage device is best formatted as a FAT32 drive. If it is NTFS you
will have to install NTFS4DOS.

http://avira-ntfs4dos-personal.avira-gmbh.qarchive.org/

HTH & GL

John

--
\\\||///
------------------o000----(o)(o)----000o----------------
----------------------------()--------------------------
'' Madness takes its toll - Please have exact change. ''

John Dulak - 40.4888ºN,79.899ºW - http://tinyurl.com/3lvoh2n

Hi John,

I'm a bit confused about something you wrote and how this all works:

You said, "If you boot DOS from a device your MB allows you to boot
from....."

Unless I'm mistaken, that's THE problem I have, since my BIOS can't even
detect the device (due to the age of the BIOS, circa 2002). So I was
thinking these drivers you mentioned wouldn't help(?) with that particular
issue. (I'm not just trying to get access to USB from DOS, but rather,
being able to directly BOOT up onto a DOS formatted pen drive). More below.

I've already made a DOS bootable flash drive using my WinXP computer, but
again, if its plugged in (plugged into the USB2 card), the flash drive isn't
even recognized at boot time, and it proceeds to go on to Windows, since
again the only drives recognized by this old BIOS are floppy, ARMD, IDE, and
CDROM. (I also tried moving ARMD to the top of the boot order list, and it
still wouldn't recognize the drive).

Am I mistaken in assuming that the only way those drivers (and config.sys)
you mentioned can work (at bootup) is only if the BIOS can recognize the
drive in the first place (long before config.sys or anything else can
happen)? Or am I mistaken?

If I'm mistaken, I think you're saying that those drivers would somehow be
able to bypass windows at boot time and transfer control over to the flash
pen drive, regardless of the BIOS's limitation in even recognizing the
device (as shown in the BIOS boot list selections).

Thanks and sorry for my confusion here!
Bill


John Dulak wrote:
On 7/17/2012 12:17 AM, Bill in Co wrote:
I assume that in order to be able to boot up on a USB flash drive (in
DOS),
the BIOS in the computer must allow for that option to be selected. And
if
the computer is too old (like 2002), it likely won't.

Case in point: My old Dell Win98 computer here doesn't seem to have this
option when I go into BIOS. The ONLY options listed in its BIOS a

Floppy
ARMD-FDD (for zip drives, as I recall)
ARMD-HDD (for zip drives, as I recall)
IDE-HDD
ATAPI CDROM

Is there a workaround? Not that it's necessary, but it might be nice to
have.

I do have a USB2 card in this computer (allowing me USB2 access *in
Windows*), and had also installed nusb23 for its storage drivers, but I
don't think these are of any help here if BIOS can't even show the
options.
And I have the latest BIOS update for this computer (circa 2002).




Bill in Co:

If you boot DOS from a device your MB allows you to boot from you CAN
get access to USB *storage* devices from DOS, you just have to load
the right drivers.

In CONFIG.SYS

device=USBASPI.SYS /w /v
device=DI1000DD.SYS

USBASPI.SYS is available in the self extracting archive
"kxlrw40an.exe" at:
http://panasonic.jp/com/support/driv.../kxlrw40an.exe
The /w switch pauses and displays a bessage to connect a USB device.
The /v switch displays verbose messages.

DI1000DD.SYS is available in the archive "mhairu.zip" at:
http://www.stefan2000.com/darkehorse...USB/mhairu.zip


I found these several years ago and have used it with DOS boot
floppies and CDs. Very handy to have access to stuff from DOS. The USB
storage device is best formatted as a FAT32 drive. If it is NTFS you
will have to install NTFS4DOS.

http://avira-ntfs4dos-personal.avira-gmbh.qarchive.org/

HTH & GL

John

--
\\\||///
------------------o000----(o)(o)----000o----------------
----------------------------()--------------------------
'' Madness takes its toll - Please have exact change. ''

John Dulak - 40.4888ºN,79.899ºW - http://tinyurl.com/3lvoh2n

On 7/17/2012 3:56 PM, Bill in Co wrote:
Hi John,

I'm a bit confused about something you wrote and how this all works:

You said, "If you boot DOS from a device your MB allows you to boot
from....."

Unless I'm mistaken, that's THE problem I have, since my BIOS can't even
detect the device (due to the age of the BIOS, circa 2002). So I was
thinking these drivers you mentioned wouldn't help(?) with that particular
issue.(I'm not just trying to get access to USB from DOS, but rather,
being able to directly BOOT up onto a DOS formatted pen drive). More below.

I've already made a DOS bootable flash drive using my WinXP computer, but
again, if its plugged in (plugged into the USB2 card), the flash drive isn't
even recognized at boot time, and it proceeds to go on to Windows, since
again the only drives recognized by this old BIOS are floppy, ARMD, IDE, and
CDROM. (I also tried moving ARMD to the top of the boot order list, and it
still wouldn't recognize the drive).

Am I mistaken in assuming that the only way those drivers (and config.sys)
you mentioned can work (at bootup) is only if the BIOS can recognize the
drive in the first place (long before config.sys or anything else can
happen)? Or am I mistaken?

Yes you are mistaken. The BIOS has nothing to do with the drivers
working. If the drivers are installed during the DOS boot process
(from whatever media) The USB drive will be assigned a drive letter
and you will have access to the USB devices from the DOS command line.
(The process is very simular to the old MSCDEX loading to access a
CD-ROM drive from DOS) I realize it was not your original intention to
boot from, say, a floppy and then be able to access the USB drive but
you DID ask for a "workaround".

If you insist on booting from the USB device directly the only
suggestion I can make is to search for a BIOS upgrade/patch for your
motherboard. Perhaps at:

http://www.wimsbios.com/biosupdates.jsp


John



If I'm mistaken, I think you're saying that those drivers would somehow be
able to bypass windows at boot time and transfer control over to the flash
pen drive, regardless of the BIOS's limitation in even recognizing the
device (as shown in the BIOS boot list selections).

That is exactly what will happen. Once they have been assigned a drive
letter you can CD to the USB drive and run anything that is on it.


Thanks and sorry for my confusion here!
Bill


--
\\\||///
------------------o000----(o)(o)----000o----------------
----------------------------()--------------------------
'' Madness takes its toll - Please have exact change. ''

John Dulak - 40.4888ºN,79.899ºW - http://tinyurl.com/3lvoh2n

John Dulak wrote:
On 7/17/2012 3:56 PM, Bill in Co wrote:
Hi John,

I'm a bit confused about something you wrote and how this all works:

You said, "If you boot DOS from a device your MB allows you to boot
from....."

Unless I'm mistaken, that's THE problem I have, since my BIOS can't even
detect the device (due to the age of the BIOS, circa 2002). So I was
thinking these drivers you mentioned wouldn't help(?) with that
particular
issue.(I'm not just trying to get access to USB from DOS, but rather,
being able to directly BOOT up onto a DOS formatted pen drive). More
below.

I've already made a DOS bootable flash drive using my WinXP computer, but
again, if its plugged in (plugged into the USB2 card), the flash drive
isn't
even recognized at boot time, and it proceeds to go on to Windows, since
again the only drives recognized by this old BIOS are floppy, ARMD, IDE,
and
CDROM. (I also tried moving ARMD to the top of the boot order list, and
it still wouldn't recognize the drive).

Am I mistaken in assuming that the only way those drivers (and
config.sys)
you mentioned can work (at bootup) is only if the BIOS can recognize the
drive in the first place (long before config.sys or anything else can
happen)? Or am I mistaken?

By "at bootup", I meant directly booting up on the flash drive. Sorry about
my vagueness.

Yes you are mistaken. The BIOS has nothing to do with the drivers
working. If the drivers are installed during the DOS boot process
(from whatever media) The USB drive will be assigned a drive letter
and you will have access to the USB devices from the DOS command line.
(The process is very simular to the old MSCDEX loading to access a
CD-ROM drive from DOS) I realize it was not your original intention to
boot from, say, a floppy and then be able to access the USB drive but
you DID ask for a "workaround".

And that could be a worthwhile feature. I was mostly concerned with simply
booting up on the flash drive directly.

If you insist on booting from the USB device directly the only
suggestion I can make is to search for a BIOS upgrade/patch for your
motherboard. Perhaps at:

http://www.wimsbios.com/biosupdates.jsp


John

Thanks for the info, and I'll investigate it a bit further.



If I'm mistaken, I think you're saying that those drivers would somehow
be
able to bypass windows at boot time and transfer control over to the
flash
pen drive, regardless of the BIOS's limitation in even recognizing the
device (as shown in the BIOS boot list selections).

That is exactly what will happen. Once they have been assigned a drive
letter you can CD to the USB drive and run anything that is on it.


Thanks and sorry for my confusion here!
Bill


--
\\\||///
------------------o000----(o)(o)----000o----------------
----------------------------()--------------------------
'' Madness takes its toll - Please have exact change. ''

John Dulak - 40.4888ºN,79.899ºW - http://tinyurl.com/3lvoh2n

"Bill in Co" wrote:

.... THE problem I have, since my BIOS can't even
detect the device (due to the age of the BIOS, circa 2002).

(I'm not just trying to get access to USB from DOS, but
rather,
being able to directly BOOT up onto a DOS formatted pen
drive).

Your problem has a solution and it's name's Plop ! Also, it's
/free/ (as in free beer) - even for professional/commercial use
now.

www.plop.at

Never listen to the naysayers ;=)

HTH
--
Cz.

Czerno wrote:
"Bill in Co" wrote:

.... THE problem I have, since my BIOS can't even
detect the device (due to the age of the BIOS, circa 2002).

(I'm not just trying to get access to USB from DOS, but rather,
being able to directly BOOT up onto a DOS formatted pen drive).

Your problem has a solution and it's name's Plop ! Also, it's
/free/ (as in free beer) - even for professional/commercial use
now.

www.plop.at

Fascinating.
At first I didn't know if this was real (from the name "plop"), but it sure
is.
Thanks.

In message , Czerno
writes:
"Bill in Co" wrote:

.... THE problem I have, since my BIOS can't even
detect the device (due to the age of the BIOS, circa 2002).

(I'm not just trying to get access to USB from DOS, but
rather,
being able to directly BOOT up onto a DOS formatted pen
drive).

Your problem has a solution and it's name's Plop ! Also, it's
/free/ (as in free beer) - even for professional/commercial use
now.

www.plop.at

Never listen to the naysayers ;=)
[]
How does yet another Linux variant make a USB stick/drive bootable on a
BIOS that can't boot to USB? If it has to load the Linux, which it will
do from the hard disc, that is NOT booting from the USB.

It's this sort of thing that gives Linux enthusiasts a bad name (in this
case, deservedly).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Call it incest - but I want my mummy

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Czerno
writes:
"Bill in Co" wrote:

.... THE problem I have, since my BIOS can't even
detect the device (due to the age of the BIOS, circa 2002).

(I'm not just trying to get access to USB from DOS, but
rather,
being able to directly BOOT up onto a DOS formatted pen
drive).

Your problem has a solution and it's name's Plop ! Also, it's
/free/ (as in free beer) - even for professional/commercial use
now.

www.plop.at

Never listen to the naysayers ;=)
[]
How does yet another Linux variant make a USB stick/drive bootable on a
BIOS that can't boot to USB? If it has to load the Linux, which it will
do from the hard disc, that is NOT booting from the USB.

It's this sort of thing that gives Linux enthusiasts a bad name (in this
case, deservedly).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Call it incest - but I want my mummy

It seems the trick with all of these workarounds is as you and I have
surmised:

Regardless of any of these techniques, if your BIOS is "dated", you can
never *directly* boot to a USB device (or any other non recognized BIOS
device).
You FIRST have to boot to one of your BIOS recognized bootable media, (which
in my case is either a floppy, CD-ROM, or Zip drive, or HD), which can THEN,
and only then, load the boot loader on that existing BIOS recognized media.
No rocket science here, I guess.

(I did try looking for a more up-to-date BIOS-, but to no avail. I'm
already there. It's just too old (2002). I'm not even sure if USB was
even around back then in any form. :-)

Bill in Co wrote:


(I did try looking for a more up-to-date BIOS-, but to no avail. I'm
already there. It's just too old (2002). I'm not even sure if USB was
even around back then in any form. :-)

USB was around for a considerable period, before the code module
for booting from USB was available.

Like everything else, the BIOS "base" code is developed by its respective
company (Phoenix, Award, AMI), and when there is a major release that
changes stream number, new features can be added. In some cases, you can
get a PDF release note, which details the new features.

A motherboard company, generally doesn't change streams or base code,
once a motherboard is released. If the base was 5.0 when a BIOS was released,
and the company providing the base BIOS goes to 6.0 as their current product,
the motherboard maker continues to use 5.0 to generate new BIOS. Only a
brand new motherboard would be using the 6.0 stream.

And the motherboard company also freezes the feature set. The feature set,
is depicted in the user manual. They can't go adding features which are
not documented in the manual. And you can rightfully ask their support
to fix things depicted in the manual, which don't work right. The user
manual is your "contract". You can't expect the features to change with time.
So if you considered USB boot to be a cool feature, but it wasn't promised
in the manual, there's no reason for it to be added later.

As far as I know, USB boot only became practical, with the introduction of
USB2.0. Booting at 1MB/sec on a USB 1.1 interface, would take too long.

Paul