What's the deal with MS05-002 (KB891711.EXE) and Windows 98?

Great Post, Gary. Hear, Hear Also, make sure to block all HTML code in
e-mail like in Yahoo or Hotmail and I suggest with Yahoo --- e-mail that a
user always logs in with 128 bit RC4 encryption and limits access to e-mail
account on a need to know basis.

"Gary S. Terhune" wrote in message
...
: That hardly answers the question. All that says is that viewing email in
: HTML format can be risky. I don't see how switching from OE to some
: other newsreader will change that. If you view email in HTML format, you
: are much more at risk than if you view it in plain text, period. Not
: only from the vulnerabilities mentioned in this Security Bulletin, but
: from a myriad of other vulnerabilities involving HTML rendering. So, the
: answer is: View email in PlainText only. Fortunately, OE6 and up have
: this option--to view email in PlainText only. Does your newsreader have
: that option? And do you use it? If not, you're engaging in risky
: behavior.
:
: --
: Gary S. Terhune
: MS MVP Shell/User
: http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
: http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
:
: "John John" wrote in message
: ...
: Gary S. Terhune wrote:
:
: Why? What does OE have to do with KB891711.EXE?
:
: verbatim copy of MS05-002 snipped.
:

Keep up the good work, Gary.

"Gary S. Terhune" wrote in message
...
: I'm not looking for a different email client. I'm simply responding to
: someone who seems to think that using some other email client will
: protect him from malicious code in HTML emails and that it's OE itself
: that is the problem--neither proposition is true.
:
: I use OE6, with PT-Only set. On occasion, idiots who send out HTML email
: in which certain parts can *only* be seen in HTML force me to
: temporarily allow HTML rendering. Major companies like Microsoft and
: Computer Associates seem to be the worst offenders.
:
: But I'm quite happy with my OE and see no compelling reason to change it
: for any other email or news client.
:
: --
: Gary S. Terhune
: MS MVP Shell/User
: http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
: http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
:
: "Me &" wrote in message
: news : Find yourself a copy of Eudora 3.0.5 (very old). It's text only
: email. If there are pictures included you can choose to view them,
: but no html email. That's all I run. I hate html in my email.
: You can still download it from Eudora, but I am not sure if it can be
: purchased any longer. I bought it many years ago, I upgraded to a
: newer version, and found the newer ones were html ONLY. I went back
: to the old version.
:
:
: On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 23:29:02 -0800, "Gary S. Terhune"
: wrote:
:
: That hardly answers the question. All that says is that viewing email
: in
: HTML format can be risky. I don't see how switching from OE to some
: other newsreader will change that. If you view email in HTML format,
: you
: are much more at risk than if you view it in plain text, period. Not
: only from the vulnerabilities mentioned in this Security Bulletin,
: but
: from a myriad of other vulnerabilities involving HTML rendering. So,
: the
: answer is: View email in PlainText only. Fortunately, OE6 and up have
: this option--to view email in PlainText only. Does your newsreader
: have
: that option? And do you use it? If not, you're engaging in risky
: behavior.
:
:

I am Googling for it now to test it if I can get a hold of this old program.

"Me &" wrote in message
news : Find yourself a copy of Eudora 3.0.5 (very old). It's text only
: email. If there are pictures included you can choose to view them,
: but no html email. That's all I run. I hate html in my email.
: You can still download it from Eudora, but I am not sure if it can be
: purchased any longer. I bought it many years ago, I upgraded to a
: newer version, and found the newer ones were html ONLY. I went back
: to the old version.
:
:
: On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 23:29:02 -0800, "Gary S. Terhune"
: wrote:
:
: That hardly answers the question. All that says is that viewing email in
: HTML format can be risky. I don't see how switching from OE to some
: other newsreader will change that. If you view email in HTML format, you
: are much more at risk than if you view it in plain text, period. Not
: only from the vulnerabilities mentioned in this Security Bulletin, but
: from a myriad of other vulnerabilities involving HTML rendering. So, the
: answer is: View email in PlainText only. Fortunately, OE6 and up have
: this option--to view email in PlainText only. Does your newsreader have
: that option? And do you use it? If not, you're engaging in risky
: behavior.
:

In ,
Gary S. Terhune had this to say:

My reply is at the bottom of your sent message:

But I'm quite happy with my OE and see no compelling reason to change
it for any other email or news client.

OE 6 SP1 (IIRC) was where the ability to read all mail in plain text was
added. Probably one of the greatest features of OE that I've ever come
across. Reading mail in anything other than plain text these days is insane.
IOW I agree 110% and use OE almost exclusively unless I'm using XNews on
someone else's computer.

Galen
--
Signature changed for a moment of silence.
Rest well Alex and we'll see you on the other side.

It is not that big a deal but hopefully it will be fully incorporated in a
future Microsoft update like the other updates are.

"SFB - KB3MM" wrote in message
...
: I love it. 'So I've heard' Not picking on you, don't help spread rumors.
:
: Maybe it was just started by a Bill Basher.
:
: "Dan" wrote in message
: ...
: It is indeed a running service.
:
: "John John" wrote in message
: ...
: : SFB - KB3MM wrote:
: :
: : Whata's the downside of this update?
: :
: : Run's a service in the background. Or so I've heard.
: :
: : John
:
:
:

Other users have mentioned it may affect you if you use a dial-up connection
or have an older video or sound driver or baddies on your system. Do any of
these apply to you?

"Sramic" wrote in message
...
: Just on a personal experience note here, ever since I installed these
latest
: security updates including: "Microsoft Security Bulletin MS05-002
: Vulnerability in Cursor and Icon Format Handling Could Allow Remote Code
: Execution (891711)"
: I have had many blue screens of death to the point of hard rebooting to get
: out. It seems that this update is causing me nothing but grief (Win98
: 3.10.2222, AMD K6-2 450MHz). I am removing this one because I cannot use
my
: computer with it! Has anyone else experienced this kind of behavior?
:
: "Ivan Bútora" wrote:
:
: Look through some of the recent threats in win98.gen_discussion...
:
: "SFB - KB3MM" wrote in message
...
: Whata's the downside of this update?
:
: "Ivan Bútora" wrote in message
: ...
: Dan, please. ANY update is optional. It is up to me if I want to
install
: it on my machine or not. Yes, I think it's good to install these
updates in
: general, and I have installed all of them except KB891711. But on the
other
: hand, there are upsides and downsides. In the case of KB891711, the
: inconvenience and trouble that is likely to be caused by this patch is
far
: greater than the risk of a hacker exploiting your machine. Keep in mind
that
: there have been several updates this year considered "important" for
Windows
: 98 that have not been released publicly. As Gary Terhune pointed out,
the
: difference between "important" and "critical" is actually not so
significant
: in terms of the security threat. So yeah, your machine probably *is*
: vulnerable to something. But that's life, you can't be 100% secure all
the
: time. I don't see the point in making such a big fuss about not having
this
: one patch installed.
:
: And FYI, since September 2004, my computer has been running WITHOUT
: anti-virus protection, anti-spyware, etc. So yesterday I decided I
would run
: a SpyBot check just for the hell of it, and guess what - nothing found
other
: than a couple of IE cookies. My point: The most important thing is
being
: aware of what you're doing with your computer and on the Internet.
:
: Frankly, I don't know what your letter to Bill Gates was, but what I
do
: know is that MS should be ashamed for releasing a patch in this manner,
: without informing the users of the potential caveats, and apparently
without
: testing in dial-up systems, etc.
:
:
:
: "Dan" wrote in message
: ...
: According to PC Today, April issue it is a critical update that has
as
: of now
: not been exploited by hackers. Guys and Gals you need this
critical
: update
: because I am guessing within 3 weeks someone will find a way to
: compromise
: all 98SE and associated 9x machines that need the patch and have
not
: been
: updated. My best guess is that the time for the hackers will be a
: maximum of
: 3 weeks and it may be even faster so if your machine is connected
to the
: Internet do whatever it takes to keep "KB891711.EXE" running
because I
: am
: sure down the line Microsoft will be able to do a better fix but
this is
: a
: temporary solution, hopefully to allow users to be safe while
on-line.
: If
: programs are not responding then discover why. People you need
this
: CRITICAL
: PATCH and it is not optional. If Windows will not run with the
patch
: because
: of BSOD then disconnect from the Internet -- remove Ethernet cable,
USB
: cable
: or phone cable until the problem is resolved because if you do not
do
: this
: and have exited this CRITICAL PATCH then you are just asking for
your
: system
: to be hacked and no it will not be by me or my friends although I
know a
: lot
: about security on computers and weak access points and could
probably do
: it
: without too much trouble if I wanted to but my heart is with
keeping the
: U.S.A and its Allies and businesses and finally consumers to try
and get
: one
: small leg up on the PEOPLE who hack machines for a hobby, the
: terriorists and
: finally the script kiddies. Let me know how I and others can help
you
: with
: your computer problems. Have a nice day!
:
: "98 Guy" wrote in message
...
: :
: : If you don't know what I'm talking about, look he
: :
: : http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sec.../MS05-002.mspx
: :
: : If you're running Win 98, and have recently (within the past
week)
: : gone to Windows Updates and updated your computer, you almost
: : certainly now have the file "KB891711.EXE" running in the
background.
: : It is set to run automatically at startup. First time any such
update
: : or security patch has been configured to operate (instead of
simply
: : replacing an existing file).
: :
: : Even though Micro$loth sez that MS05-002 (KB891711.EXE) is
critical
: : for Win-98, I've read where some (many) people are simply
deactivating
: : it (via msconfig).
: :
: : Does anyone really know the truth regarding Win-98 and
KB891711.EXE?
: :
: : Is there anything special about it (like running it in safe mode
to
: : properly install it) ?
: :
: : Is it really needed? (for win-98) ?
: :
: : Is Win-98 really vulnerable to MS05-002 ???
:
:
:
:

Thanks for letting me know. Do you have a broadband connection and are you
willing to share any software that you have at this newsgroup with us? You
do not have to tell us if you do not want to of course.

"SFB - KB3MM" wrote in message
...
: Well, we live in an era of 'instant PC Experts'
:
: the typical'my brother in law-sez, ......., and the secretary at work.....
:
: roof is needed not rumors.
:
: I've had the update for 4 days and nothing has raised an ugly head yet.
:
: "Dan" wrote in message
: ...
: It is just what people are saying. I don't have any proof.
:
: "SFB - KB3MM" wrote in message
: ...
: : Any particular boards?
: :
: : Is this well founded and some one has absolute proof, or just some one
: : saying it must be ...?
: :
: : "Dan" wrote in message
: : ...
: : Read the discussion boards and you will see that it is causing havoc
: with
: : some user's machines and associated software and/or hardware. For
: some
: of
: : the users baddies are definately involved but definately not with all
: the
: : users.
: :
: : "SFB - KB3MM" wrote in message
: : ...
: : : Whata's the downside of this update?
: : :
: : : "Ivan Bútora" wrote in message
: : : ...
: : : Dan, please. ANY update is optional. It is up to me if I want to
: : install
: : : it on my machine or not. Yes, I think it's good to install these
: updates
: : in
: : : general, and I have installed all of them except KB891711. But on
: the
: : other
: : : hand, there are upsides and downsides. In the case of KB891711, the
: : : inconvenience and trouble that is likely to be caused by this patch
: is
: : far
: : : greater than the risk of a hacker exploiting your machine. Keep in
: mind
: : that
: : : there have been several updates this year considered "important"
for
: : Windows
: : : 98 that have not been released publicly. As Gary Terhune pointed
: out,
: : the
: : : difference between "important" and "critical" is actually not so
: : significant
: : : in terms of the security threat. So yeah, your machine probably
*is*
: : : vulnerable to something. But that's life, you can't be 100% secure
: all
: : the
: : : time. I don't see the point in making such a big fuss about not
: having
: : this
: : : one patch installed.
: : :
: : : And FYI, since September 2004, my computer has been running
: WITHOUT
: : : anti-virus protection, anti-spyware, etc. So yesterday I decided I
: would
: : run
: : : a SpyBot check just for the hell of it, and guess what - nothing
: found
: : other
: : : than a couple of IE cookies. My point: The most important thing is
: being
: : : aware of what you're doing with your computer and on the Internet.
: : :
: : : Frankly, I don't know what your letter to Bill Gates was, but
what
: I
: : do
: : : know is that MS should be ashamed for releasing a patch in this
: manner,
: : : without informing the users of the potential caveats, and
apparently
: : without
: : : testing in dial-up systems, etc.
: : :
: : :
: : :
: : : "Dan" wrote in message
: : : ...
: : : According to PC Today, April issue it is a critical update that
: has
: : as
: : : of now
: : : not been exploited by hackers. Guys and Gals you need this
: critical
: : : update
: : : because I am guessing within 3 weeks someone will find a way to
: : : compromise
: : : all 98SE and associated 9x machines that need the patch and
have
: not
: : : been
: : : updated. My best guess is that the time for the hackers will
be
: a
: : : maximum of
: : : 3 weeks and it may be even faster so if your machine is
: connected
: to
: : the
: : : Internet do whatever it takes to keep "KB891711.EXE" running
: because
: : I
: : : am
: : : sure down the line Microsoft will be able to do a better fix
but
: : this
: : is
: : : a
: : : temporary solution, hopefully to allow users to be safe while
: : on-line.
: : : If
: : : programs are not responding then discover why. People you need
: this
: : : CRITICAL
: : : PATCH and it is not optional. If Windows will not run with the
: : patch
: : : because
: : : of BSOD then disconnect from the Internet -- remove Ethernet
: cable,
: : USB
: : : cable
: : : or phone cable until the problem is resolved because if you do
: not
: : do
: : : this
: : : and have exited this CRITICAL PATCH then you are just asking
for
: : your
: : : system
: : : to be hacked and no it will not be by me or my friends although
: I
: : know
: : a
: : : lot
: : : about security on computers and weak access points and could
: : probably
: : do
: : : it
: : : without too much trouble if I wanted to but my heart is with
: keeping
: : the
: : : U.S.A and its Allies and businesses and finally consumers to
try
: and
: : get
: : : one
: : : small leg up on the PEOPLE who hack machines for a hobby, the
: : : terriorists and
: : : finally the script kiddies. Let me know how I and others can
: help
: : you
: : : with
: : : your computer problems. Have a nice day!
: : :
: : : "98 Guy" wrote in message
: : ...
: : : :
: : : : If you don't know what I'm talking about, look he
: : : :
: : : :
: http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sec.../MS05-002.mspx
: : : :
: : : : If you're running Win 98, and have recently (within the past
: week)
: : : : gone to Windows Updates and updated your computer, you almost
: : : : certainly now have the file "KB891711.EXE" running in the
: : background.
: : : : It is set to run automatically at startup. First time any
: such
: : update
: : : : or security patch has been configured to operate (instead of
: : simply
: : : : replacing an existing file).
: : : :
: : : : Even though Micro$loth sez that MS05-002 (KB891711.EXE) is
: : critical
: : : : for Win-98, I've read where some (many) people are simply
: : deactivating
: : : : it (via msconfig).
: : : :
: : : : Does anyone really know the truth regarding Win-98 and
: : KB891711.EXE?
: : : :
: : : : Is there anything special about it (like running it in safe
: mode
: : to
: : : : properly install it) ?
: : : :
: : : : Is it really needed? (for win-98) ?
: : : :
: : : : Is Win-98 really vulnerable to MS05-002 ???
: : :
: : :
: : :
: :
: :
: :
:
:
:

Do you have something against all services or is the prolem just that you do
not know exactly what this service does?

"John John" wrote in message
...
Dan wrote:

I just choose to continue to use Outlook Express.

Good for you, keep on applying them security patches that run as services.

John

All it says to me is that the patch is to fix OE and if you don't use
OE you don't need the patch.

John

Gary S. Terhune wrote:

That hardly answers the question. All that says is that viewing email in
HTML format can be risky. I don't see how switching from OE to some
other newsreader will change that. If you view email in HTML format, you
are much more at risk than if you view it in plain text, period. Not
only from the vulnerabilities mentioned in this Security Bulletin, but
from a myriad of other vulnerabilities involving HTML rendering. So, the
answer is: View email in PlainText only. Fortunately, OE6 and up have
this option--to view email in PlainText only. Does your newsreader have
that option? And do you use it? If not, you're engaging in risky
behavior.

Security is utmost to me and I want to get a firewall that blocks attacks and
then attacks the hacker shutting down their complete network just like the
U.S. military uses.

"SFB - KB3MM" wrote in message
...
: Do you have something against all services or is the prolem just that you
do
: not know exactly what this service does?
:
: "John John" wrote in message
: ...
: Dan wrote:
:
: I just choose to continue to use Outlook Express.
:
: Good for you, keep on applying them security patches that run as
services.
:
: John
: