Win98SE and Comcast Hi Speed Internet (cable)?

PCR wrote:
Bill in Co. wrote:
PCR wrote:
Bill in Co. wrote:
Can somebody shed some light on this one issue? (This was in
reference to adding a hi-speed cable internet connection in Win98SE
(and still keeping dial-up as a fallback):

After setting up the hi-speed internet connection (via either USB or
Ethernet),
I don't understand why ICS (Internet Connection Sharing) seemed to
get installed too (or at least part of it did) in Device Manager.
ICS showed up in
Device Manager (under Network or Modem, can't recall which, but I
think it was under Network). But I'm NOT sharing my computer with
any other one (I am NOT connected to a network to any other
computers here), so why would ICS need to be installed (in Win98SE)?

Maybe just plugging in an Ethernet card means ICS should be
installed by default (just in case, for the possibility of
networking other computers)??


You could be right with that guess that somehow ICS got turn on due
to the install of that ethernet card. I don't really know. Do you
recall the Internet Connection Sharing wizard running?

No, it never ran.


I suppose it wouldn't have to be, but that took your choice in the
matter away.

Mine is unchecked/disabled -- but I can't recall whether the machine
came came that way.

It might be interesting to know.

It sounds like something I might have disabled for safety or for simply
deciding I'd never use it. I know I've done things in that Add/Remove,
Windows Components requestor. But chances are equally good this already
was disabled to begin with. But I haven't a prayer of remembering it! It
was Compaq that originally did the install.

Actually, when I went into Control
Panel and checked it under Add Remove Programs, windows components,
it indicated that nothing there had been installed.

The ethernet install I guess failed to notify that interface of the
install.

But under
Device Manager, it showed an entry. Perhaps it's a ghost entry. :-)


I have nothing in Device Manager at Modem, Network Adapters, or anywhere
showing ICS. But -- who knows -- you may need it there having installed
your ethernet card. If there is such a thing, this may even be a
modified ICS peculiar to that card. I guess -- if you're sure you'll
never use it & that card doesn't itself need it-- you may attempt to
remove it. But I don't want it on my head. Ensure you can reverse
whatever you do.

It's controllable at...

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/234815
Description of Internet Connection Sharing
........Quote................
You can enable Internet Connection Sharing by using the Add/Remove
Programs tool in Windows 98 Second Edition or Windows Me:

1. Click Start, point to Settings, click Control Panel,
and then double-click Add/Remove Programs.
2. On the Windows Setup tab, double-click Internet Tools.
3. Click to select the Internet Connection Sharing check box,
and then click OK.
4. Click OK, and then follow the instructions on the screen to
run the Internet Connection Sharing wizard.
.......EOQ......................

BTW, when I tried installing the Ethernet Card, I had some residual
yellow exclamation point issues there (in reference to some ICS
driver issues relating to NDIS or NDIS2 that I couldn't really
resolve), but, at least
it worked ok).

Next time -- if we're still here -- post the error showing at...
''MSInfo32, Components, Problem Devices''
... not that I'd be the one to solve it necessarily.

Well, that may be awhile, since I'm back on XP now (finally getting
that one fixed (due to bad power supply!) But TNX. :-)

YW. I was wondering whether you were right about that power supply,
since an indicator was still lit. Glad you were & it's done.


TNX. :-)
The only thing the computer did when I turned it on was show an amber color
for the power on button. No sounds, no booting, nada. (The fact that it
showed that color meant at least it was plugged in :-) I figured the odds
were in pretty much in favor of a bad power supply, but I was really holding
my breath that it wasn't a bad motherboard; getting any exact replacements
after a few years ... is pretty darn difficult (and probably available only
via eBay). I did do it once before, however, for an older Dell, and it
was pretty lucky that I could find the exact one.

I was reading that there are a few horror stories about some power supplies
in the past, that when they failed, would take out the motherboard along
with them (due to excessive voltages on some rails - now that's BAD!).

This also kinda reminds me of some cases I'd heard of before that when a car
battery died, it could also take out the alternator along with it. Now
THAT is bad!

I was unable to post this using the msnews.microsoft.com server. SO - I
guess the day has come! Let's see whether nntp.aioe.org will work.

Bill in Co. wrote:
PCR wrote:
Bill in Co. wrote:
PCR wrote:
Bill in Co. wrote:
Can somebody shed some light on this one issue? (This was in
reference to adding a hi-speed cable internet connection in
Win98SE (and still keeping dial-up as a fallback):

After setting up the hi-speed internet connection (via either USB
or Ethernet),
I don't understand why ICS (Internet Connection Sharing) seemed to
get installed too (or at least part of it did) in Device Manager.
ICS showed up in
Device Manager (under Network or Modem, can't recall which, but I
think it was under Network). But I'm NOT sharing my computer
with any other one (I am NOT connected to a network to any other
computers here), so why would ICS need to be installed (in
Win98SE)?

Maybe just plugging in an Ethernet card means ICS should be
installed by default (just in case, for the possibility of
networking other computers)??


You could be right with that guess that somehow ICS got turn on due
to the install of that ethernet card. I don't really know. Do you
recall the Internet Connection Sharing wizard running?

No, it never ran.


I suppose it wouldn't have to be, but that took your choice in the
matter away.

Mine is unchecked/disabled -- but I can't recall whether the
machine came came that way.

It might be interesting to know.

It sounds like something I might have disabled for safety or for
simply deciding I'd never use it. I know I've done things in that
Add/Remove, Windows Components requestor. But chances are equally
good this already was disabled to begin with. But I haven't a prayer
of remembering it! It was Compaq that originally did the install.

Actually, when I went into Control
Panel and checked it under Add Remove Programs, windows components,
it indicated that nothing there had been installed.

The ethernet install I guess failed to notify that interface of the
install.

But under
Device Manager, it showed an entry. Perhaps it's a ghost entry.



I have nothing in Device Manager at Modem, Network Adapters, or
anywhere showing ICS. But -- who knows -- you may need it there
having installed your ethernet card. If there is such a thing, this
may even be a modified ICS peculiar to that card. I guess -- if
you're sure you'll never use it & that card doesn't itself need it--
you may attempt to remove it. But I don't want it on my head. Ensure
you can reverse whatever you do.

It's controllable at...

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/234815
Description of Internet Connection Sharing
........Quote................
You can enable Internet Connection Sharing by using the Add/Remove
Programs tool in Windows 98 Second Edition or Windows Me:

1. Click Start, point to Settings, click Control Panel,
and then double-click Add/Remove Programs.
2. On the Windows Setup tab, double-click Internet Tools.
3. Click to select the Internet Connection Sharing check box,
and then click OK.
4. Click OK, and then follow the instructions on the screen to
run the Internet Connection Sharing wizard.
.......EOQ......................

BTW, when I tried installing the Ethernet Card, I had some
residual yellow exclamation point issues there (in reference to
some ICS driver issues relating to NDIS or NDIS2 that I couldn't
really resolve), but, at least
it worked ok).

Next time -- if we're still here -- post the error showing at...
''MSInfo32, Components, Problem Devices''
... not that I'd be the one to solve it necessarily.

Well, that may be awhile, since I'm back on XP now (finally getting
that one fixed (due to bad power supply!) But TNX.

YW. I was wondering whether you were right about that power supply,
since an indicator was still lit. Glad you were & it's done.


TNX.
The only thing the computer did when I turned it on was show an amber
color for the power on button. No sounds, no booting, nada.

That's pretty scary -- not really much to go on. I got into a situation
like that - you know - just playing with jumpers on a hard drive. But,
along the way, the CMOS battery also died. It was just as you describe,
except I'm not sure of the shade of the power status light. But I've got
the added bug-a-boo of a monitor that remains black (though its power
light is green when switched on) if turned on before the computer sends
it a signal. So, I don't know whether it was a jumper problem or whether
BIOS was struggling with settings before it would audibly load the OS --
which I'm sure would put a message on the monitor. BIOS won't, by
itself, light this monitor since it went bad.

I'm OK now -- but I need to buy a new backup hard drive, a new CMOS
battery -- & a new monitor!

(The
fact that it showed that color meant at least it was plugged in

I know my monitor's light will go to amber when it is in standby/asleep.
I should put this computer to sleep & see whether the same is true of
the computer's light. I wonder whether mine too will be amber the day my
own 10 year old power supply dies. I'll have to remember this.

I figured the odds were in pretty much in favor of a bad power
supply, but I was really holding my breath that it wasn't a bad
motherboard; getting any exact replacements after a few years ... is
pretty darn difficult (and probably available only via eBay). I
did do it once before, however, for an older Dell, and it was pretty
lucky that I could find the exact one.


Good going. I haven't even done a power supply yet.

I was reading that there are a few horror stories about some power
supplies in the past, that when they failed, would take out the
motherboard along with them (due to excessive voltages on some rails
- now that's BAD!).


Sounds pretty horrible, yeah.

This also kinda reminds me of some cases I'd heard of before that
when a car battery died, it could also take out the alternator along
with it. Now THAT is bad!

Hmm. I do recall years ago sometimes getting a new alternator as well as
a new battery. But usually it was just a battery or just a battery
charge after finally getting a charger.

--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
Should things get worse after this,
PCR

Bill in Co. wrote:
PCR wrote:
Bill in Co. wrote:
PCR wrote:
Bill in Co. wrote:
Can somebody shed some light on this one issue? (This was in
reference to adding a hi-speed cable internet connection in
Win98SE (and still keeping dial-up as a fallback):

After setting up the hi-speed internet connection (via either USB
or Ethernet),
I don't understand why ICS (Internet Connection Sharing) seemed to
get installed too (or at least part of it did) in Device Manager.
ICS showed up in
Device Manager (under Network or Modem, can't recall which, but I
think it was under Network). But I'm NOT sharing my computer
with any other one (I am NOT connected to a network to any other
computers here), so why would ICS need to be installed (in
Win98SE)?

Maybe just plugging in an Ethernet card means ICS should be
installed by default (just in case, for the possibility of
networking other computers)??


You could be right with that guess that somehow ICS got turn on due
to the install of that ethernet card. I don't really know. Do you
recall the Internet Connection Sharing wizard running?

No, it never ran.


I suppose it wouldn't have to be, but that took your choice in the
matter away.

Mine is unchecked/disabled -- but I can't recall whether the
machine came came that way.

It might be interesting to know.

It sounds like something I might have disabled for safety or for
simply deciding I'd never use it. I know I've done things in that
Add/Remove, Windows Components requestor. But chances are equally
good this already was disabled to begin with. But I haven't a prayer
of remembering it! It was Compaq that originally did the install.

Actually, when I went into Control
Panel and checked it under Add Remove Programs, windows components,
it indicated that nothing there had been installed.

The ethernet install I guess failed to notify that interface of the
install.

But under
Device Manager, it showed an entry. Perhaps it's a ghost entry.



I have nothing in Device Manager at Modem, Network Adapters, or
anywhere showing ICS. But -- who knows -- you may need it there
having installed your ethernet card. If there is such a thing, this
may even be a modified ICS peculiar to that card. I guess -- if
you're sure you'll never use it & that card doesn't itself need it--
you may attempt to remove it. But I don't want it on my head. Ensure
you can reverse whatever you do.

It's controllable at...

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/234815
Description of Internet Connection Sharing
........Quote................
You can enable Internet Connection Sharing by using the Add/Remove
Programs tool in Windows 98 Second Edition or Windows Me:

1. Click Start, point to Settings, click Control Panel,
and then double-click Add/Remove Programs.
2. On the Windows Setup tab, double-click Internet Tools.
3. Click to select the Internet Connection Sharing check box,
and then click OK.
4. Click OK, and then follow the instructions on the screen to
run the Internet Connection Sharing wizard.
.......EOQ......................

BTW, when I tried installing the Ethernet Card, I had some
residual yellow exclamation point issues there (in reference to
some ICS driver issues relating to NDIS or NDIS2 that I couldn't
really resolve), but, at least
it worked ok).

Next time -- if we're still here -- post the error showing at...
''MSInfo32, Components, Problem Devices''
... not that I'd be the one to solve it necessarily.

Well, that may be awhile, since I'm back on XP now (finally getting
that one fixed (due to bad power supply!) But TNX.

YW. I was wondering whether you were right about that power supply,
since an indicator was still lit. Glad you were & it's done.


TNX.
The only thing the computer did when I turned it on was show an amber
color for the power on button. No sounds, no booting, nada.

That's pretty scary -- not really much to go on. I got into a situation
like that - you know - just playing with jumpers on a hard drive. But,
along the way, the CMOS battery also died. It was just as you describe,
except I'm not sure of the shade of the power status light. But I've got
the added bug-a-boo of a monitor that remains black (though its power
light is green when switched on) if turned on before the computer sends
it a signal. So, I don't know whether it was a jumper problem or whether
BIOS was struggling with settings before it would audibly load the OS --
which I'm sure would put a message on the monitor. BIOS won't, by
itself, light this monitor since it went bad.

I'm OK now -- but I need to buy a new backup hard drive, a new CMOS
battery -- & a new monitor!

(The
fact that it showed that color meant at least it was plugged in

I know my monitor's light will go to amber when it is in standby/asleep.
I should put this computer to sleep & see whether the same is true of
the computer's light. I wonder whether mine too will be amber the day my
own 10 year old power supply dies. I'll have to remember this.

I figured the odds were in pretty much in favor of a bad power
supply, but I was really holding my breath that it wasn't a bad
motherboard; getting any exact replacements after a few years ... is
pretty darn difficult (and probably available only via eBay). I
did do it once before, however, for an older Dell, and it was pretty
lucky that I could find the exact one.


Good going. I haven't even done a power supply yet.

I was reading that there are a few horror stories about some power
supplies in the past, that when they failed, would take out the
motherboard along with them (due to excessive voltages on some rails
- now that's BAD!).


Sounds pretty horrible, yeah.

This also kinda reminds me of some cases I'd heard of before that
when a car battery died, it could also take out the alternator along
with it. Now THAT is bad!

Hmm. I do recall years ago sometimes getting a new alternator as well as
a new battery. But usually it was just a battery or just a battery
charge after finally getting a charger.

--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
Should things get worse after this,
PCR

Sorry. This is a repeat sent in error.

PCR wrote:
Bill in Co. wrote:
PCR wrote:
Bill in Co. wrote:
PCR wrote:
Bill in Co. wrote:

In message , Bill in Co.
writes:
PCR wrote:
Bill in Co. wrote:
PCR wrote:
Bill in Co. wrote:
[]
The only thing the computer did when I turned it on was show an amber color
for the power on button. No sounds, no booting, nada. (The fact that it
showed that color meant at least it was plugged in :-) I figured the odds

And that the power supply was producing whatever voltage is needed to
drive that light (I'm assuming by "colour" you mean an actual light).

Sometimes it's just the standby connections or control circuitry -
unless you actually unplug it, a(n ATX, but you're unlikely to be using
an AT!) power supply doesn't go off when you turn it off, it just goes
into standby, waiting for a signal to wake up. It still powers at least
that part of the mobo that is sitting there waiting for you to press the
power button, which is only a momentary-contact switch, not an
in-is-on-out-is-off switch. When this circuitry detects your "come on"
press, it signals the power supply to come on fully - I think by
grounding the green wire, but check the ATX spec. for that. If the green
(or whatever) wire, or the on switch or its wiring, are dubious, then
the power supply may still be capable of supplying the power, just never
getting the signal to do so.

Having said that, it's fairly easy to try another one, and if that
works, they're cheap enough to replace.

were in pretty much in favor of a bad power supply, but I was really holding
my breath that it wasn't a bad motherboard; getting any exact replacements
after a few years ... is pretty darn difficult (and probably available only
via eBay). I did do it once before, however, for an older Dell, and it
was pretty lucky that I could find the exact one.

For '98 (I'm assuming '98), then as long as it will physically fit and
you can get suitable drivers, it doesn't have to be an exact
replacement: it just wakes up and finds it's got a new body. Or that's
my experience. (It's some years since, so maybe now finding one where
new drivers that are '98-compatible isn't easy, but I'm sure this 'group
- on its non-MS servers! - will help you find one. I'm pretty sure it
has been discussed in the last year or two.)

I was reading that there are a few horror stories about some power supplies
in the past, that when they failed, would take out the motherboard along
with them (due to excessive voltages on some rails - now that's BAD!).

It can certainly happen, as with any electronic equipment with a power
supply (not just switched-mode ones).

This also kinda reminds me of some cases I'd heard of before that when a car
battery died, it could also take out the alternator along with it. Now
THAT is bad!

If it died by suddenly going short circuit, then it would, though I'd
expect that to be rare (at least, rare that the short would be of
sufficiently low resistance).

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Imitation is the sincerest form of Television." - Mighty Mouse

PCR wrote:
Bill in Co. wrote:
PCR wrote:
Bill in Co. wrote:
PCR wrote:
Bill in Co. wrote:
Can somebody shed some light on this one issue? (This was in
reference to adding a hi-speed cable internet connection in
Win98SE (and still keeping dial-up as a fallback):

After setting up the hi-speed internet connection (via either USB
or Ethernet),
I don't understand why ICS (Internet Connection Sharing) seemed to
get installed too (or at least part of it did) in Device Manager.
ICS showed up in
Device Manager (under Network or Modem, can't recall which, but I
think it was under Network). But I'm NOT sharing my computer
with any other one (I am NOT connected to a network to any other
computers here), so why would ICS need to be installed (in
Win98SE)?

Maybe just plugging in an Ethernet card means ICS should be
installed by default (just in case, for the possibility of
networking other computers)??


You could be right with that guess that somehow ICS got turn on due
to the install of that ethernet card. I don't really know. Do you
recall the Internet Connection Sharing wizard running?

No, it never ran.


I suppose it wouldn't have to be, but that took your choice in the
matter away.

Mine is unchecked/disabled -- but I can't recall whether the
machine came came that way.

It might be interesting to know.

It sounds like something I might have disabled for safety or for
simply deciding I'd never use it. I know I've done things in that
Add/Remove, Windows Components requestor. But chances are equally
good this already was disabled to begin with. But I haven't a prayer
of remembering it! It was Compaq that originally did the install.

Actually, when I went into Control
Panel and checked it under Add Remove Programs, windows
components, it indicated that nothing there had been installed.

The ethernet install I guess failed to notify that interface of the
install.

But under
Device Manager, it showed an entry. Perhaps it's a ghost entry.



I have nothing in Device Manager at Modem, Network Adapters, or
anywhere showing ICS. But -- who knows -- you may need it there
having installed your ethernet card. If there is such a thing, this
may even be a modified ICS peculiar to that card. I guess -- if
you're sure you'll never use it & that card doesn't itself need it--
you may attempt to remove it. But I don't want it on my head. Ensure
you can reverse whatever you do.

I decided to leave the entry alone. :-) It's safer that way. :-)

It's controllable at...

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/234815
Description of Internet Connection Sharing
........Quote................
You can enable Internet Connection Sharing by using the Add/Remove
Programs tool in Windows 98 Second Edition or Windows Me:

1. Click Start, point to Settings, click Control Panel,
and then double-click Add/Remove Programs.
2. On the Windows Setup tab, double-click Internet Tools.
3. Click to select the Internet Connection Sharing check box,
and then click OK.
4. Click OK, and then follow the instructions on the screen to
run the Internet Connection Sharing wizard.
.......EOQ......................

BTW, when I tried installing the Ethernet Card, I had some
residual yellow exclamation point issues there (in reference to
some ICS driver issues relating to NDIS or NDIS2 that I couldn't
really resolve), but, at least
it worked ok).

Next time -- if we're still here -- post the error showing at...
''MSInfo32, Components, Problem Devices''
... not that I'd be the one to solve it necessarily.

Well, that may be awhile, since I'm back on XP now (finally getting
that one fixed (due to bad power supply!) But TNX.

YW. I was wondering whether you were right about that power supply,
since an indicator was still lit. Glad you were & it's done.


TNX.
The only thing the computer did when I turned it on was show an amber
color for the power on button. No sounds, no booting, nada.

That's pretty scary -- not really much to go on.

Well actually, the nicest things to fix are the ones that are completely
dead! The toughest things are the intermittents, or ones with glitches, it
seems (esp for electronics :-)

I got into a situation
like that - you know - just playing with jumpers on a hard drive. But,
along the way, the CMOS battery also died.

Bad luck there!

It was just as you describe,
except I'm not sure of the shade of the power status light. But I've got
the added bug-a-boo of a monitor that remains black (though its power
light is green when switched on) if turned on before the computer sends
it a signal. So, I don't know whether it was a jumper problem or whether
BIOS was struggling with settings before it would audibly load the OS --
which I'm sure would put a message on the monitor. BIOS won't, by
itself, light this monitor since it went bad.

I'm OK now -- but I need to buy a new backup hard drive, a new CMOS
battery -- & a new monitor!

That's a bit to buy! Maybe it's time for a new computer + monitor. :-)
One with WinXP - IF you can even find one, nowadays. I'm telling ya, PCR,
that it sure is a lot less prone to blue screens!

(The fact that it showed that color meant at least it was plugged in

I know my monitor's light will go to amber when it is in standby/asleep.
I should put this computer to sleep & see whether the same is true of
the computer's light. I wonder whether mine too will be amber the day my
own 10 year old power supply dies. I'll have to remember this.

Can't be sure. There may be differences between brands.

I figured the odds were in pretty much in favor of a bad power
supply, but I was really holding my breath that it wasn't a bad
motherboard; getting any exact replacements after a few years ... is
pretty darn difficult (and probably available only via eBay). I
did do it once before, however, for an older Dell, and it was pretty
lucky that I could find the exact one.


Good going. I haven't even done a power supply yet.

Replacing it wasn't too difficult. Just had to be really careful about
remembering which connectors went where (there were quite a few in my case,
and I got the exact replacement this time, having been burned before :-).

I was reading that there are a few horror stories about some power
supplies in the past, that when they failed, would take out the
motherboard along with them (due to excessive voltages on some rails
- now that's BAD!).


Sounds pretty horrible, yeah.

It's unforgiveable, actually. That, in and of itself, should put the
power supply company out of business!

This also kinda reminds me of some cases I'd heard of before that
when a car battery died, it could also take out the alternator along
with it. Now THAT is bad!

Hmm. I do recall years ago sometimes getting a new alternator as well as
a new battery.

You too? :-)

But usually it was just a battery or just a battery
charge after finally getting a charger.

I think that's usually more the norm, fortunately. From what I've
experienced, car batteries last about 5 years - give or take. I don't
think I've ever had one go 10 years.

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Bill in Co.
writes:
PCR wrote:
Bill in Co. wrote:
PCR wrote:
Bill in Co. wrote:
[]
The only thing the computer did when I turned it on was show an amber
color
for the power on button. No sounds, no booting, nada. (The fact that
it
showed that color meant at least it was plugged in :-) I figured the
odds

And that the power supply was producing whatever voltage is needed to
drive that light (I'm assuming by "colour" you mean an actual light).

Right. At least on that leg of it. (there are several rails of course)

Sometimes it's just the standby connections or control circuitry -
unless you actually unplug it, a(n ATX, but you're unlikely to be using
an AT!) power supply doesn't go off when you turn it off, it just goes
into standby, waiting for a signal to wake up. It still powers at least
that part of the mobo that is sitting there waiting for you to press the
power button, which is only a momentary-contact switch, not an
in-is-on-out-is-off switch. When this circuitry detects your "come on"
press, it signals the power supply to come on fully - I think by
grounding the green wire, but check the ATX spec. for that.

I seem to remember something like that. (And that you can test some power
supplies by shorting two specific and adjacent pins together to simulate
that function - just be darn sure you know which pins! :-).

If the green
(or whatever) wire, or the on switch or its wiring, are dubious, then
the power supply may still be capable of supplying the power, just never
getting the signal to do so.

Having said that, it's fairly easy to try another one, and if that
works, they're cheap enough to replace.

Yup. Not that expensive.

were in pretty much in favor of a bad power supply, but I was really
holding
my breath that it wasn't a bad motherboard; getting any exact
replacements
after a few years ... is pretty darn difficult (and probably available
only
via eBay). I did do it once before, however, for an older Dell, and it
was pretty lucky that I could find the exact one.

For '98 (I'm assuming '98), then as long as it will physically fit and
you can get suitable drivers, it doesn't have to be an exact
replacement: it just wakes up and finds it's got a new body. Or that's
my experience. (It's some years since, so maybe now finding one where
new drivers that are '98-compatible isn't easy, but I'm sure this 'group
- on its non-MS servers! - will help you find one. I'm pretty sure it
has been discussed in the last year or two.)

It was a Dell with Win98, but I just wanted the exact replacement to
minimize any glitches along the way. :-)

I was reading that there are a few horror stories about some power
supplies
in the past, that when they failed, would take out the motherboard along
with them (due to excessive voltages on some rails - now that's BAD!).

It can certainly happen, as with any electronic equipment with a power
supply (not just switched-mode ones).

Some have some secondary crowbar safety circuits that can kick in if that
ever happens, or at least should! :-) (that is, if the voltage rises
above a certain level, it can either clamp it or even short it out (to zero
volts) and then blow the fuse, thus protecting the other circuits that would
draw on it)

This also kinda reminds me of some cases I'd heard of before that when a
car battery died, it could also take out the alternator along with it.
Now
THAT is bad!

If it died by suddenly going short circuit, then it would, though I'd
expect that to be rare (at least, rare that the short would be of
sufficiently low resistance).

I expect so too. Yes, I think the battery was like a short circuit when it
failed that time, but I can't recall now. And thus the alternator was
putting out its max to try and charge it.

You would think the car's voltage regulator might have kicked in to save the
day, but it didn't happen (assuming that it can also monitor any excessive
current draw, but maybe it can't do that, however)

In message , Bill in Co
writes:
PCR wrote:
[]
The only thing the computer did when I turned it on was show an amber
color for the power on button. No sounds, no booting, nada.

That's pretty scary -- not really much to go on.

Well actually, the nicest things to fix are the ones that are completely
dead! The toughest things are the intermittents, or ones with glitches, it
seems (esp for electronics :-)

Agreed. And in computers, you're never sure if it's a software fault
either! (Well, not unless it's _obviously_ hardware in some way.)
[]
I'm OK now -- but I need to buy a new backup hard drive, a new CMOS
battery -- & a new monitor!

That's a bit to buy! Maybe it's time for a new computer + monitor. :-)
One with WinXP - IF you can even find one, nowadays. I'm telling ya, PCR,
that it sure is a lot less prone to blue screens!

I fear I'm with Bill there on the reliability - though not the
availability: the standard netbook pattern, which is 160G/1G/XP Home, is
still widely available, including ones in the form of a tiny box that
you just connect a keyboard and monitor to. (Sometimes called a netbox.)
I saw one recently for about 150 pounds (which is a good price for it in
UK) which would even drive an HDTV. Just budget the slight extra for the
external optical drive. (There's a Compaq model that actually includes
the optical drive in the box - and at a reasonable cost [about 180,
IIRR, in UK] - but it's hard to find.) The basic template also comes as
an all-in-one, i. e. what looks like a big monitor but it has the
computer built into it somewhere (and sometimes a slot for the keyboard
when not in use).

These underpowered-by-today's-standards machines will still outperform
most '98-generation machines, and can be made to look and behave
sufficiently like a '98 machine for many of us - but with, as Bill says,
greater reliability (I don't think I've ever had a blue screen: the odd
freeze, though the sammynetbook site suggests that's due to the latest
video driver).

(The fact that it showed that color meant at least it was plugged in

I know my monitor's light will go to amber when it is in standby/asleep.
I should put this computer to sleep & see whether the same is true of
the computer's light. I wonder whether mine too will be amber the day my
own 10 year old power supply dies. I'll have to remember this.

Can't be sure. There may be differences between brands.

The colour of the light, if any, both when on and when in standby, is at
the whim of the case designer, not the innards - so there are myriad
combinations. (Blue, at least for the on colour, seems to be the current
fashion.)
[]
Good going. I haven't even done a power supply yet.

Replacing it wasn't too difficult. Just had to be really careful about
remembering which connectors went where (there were quite a few in my case,
and I got the exact replacement this time, having been burned before :-).

Though I don't think there are any connectors that can be connected to
the wrong place, or the wrong way round - you just need to make sure you
get the connectors you need, which is mostly the big four-socket ones
for most drives and some fans, the little one for the floppy if you have
one, the big one (make sure it's the right one, or an adapter) for the
motherboard, and the smaller one (four in a square, or sometimes six
nowadays I think) for the processor. Count before unplugging, especially
if you have lots of drives and fans, especially the four-in-a-row types:
if the new supply hasn't enough connectors, you need to remember to get
some splitter leads at the same time as the new supply (often called Y
leads for the obvious reason).

I was reading that there are a few horror stories about some power
supplies in the past, that when they failed, would take out the
motherboard along with them (due to excessive voltages on some rails
- now that's BAD!).


Sounds pretty horrible, yeah.

It's unforgiveable, actually. That, in and of itself, should put the
power supply company out of business!

They probably are, but their supplies may be still around!
[]
I think that's usually more the norm, fortunately. From what I've
experienced, car batteries last about 5 years - give or take. I don't
think I've ever had one go 10 years.

Expensive ones are sometimes just deeper: as time goes by, and bits
flake off the plates, it piles up in the bottom of the cells. When it
builds up far enough to short the bottom edges of the plates, ... if the
cells are deeper, it's longer before that happens. (I suppose in theory
you could clean out the crud, but the cells aren't usually accessible
these days - quite apart from needing somewhere to put the acid while
you're working, and the danger of working on something with so much
stored energy in it.) And do check the fluid levels - I've known a
battery that was very unwell come back to life amazingly when topped up!
(Again, modern ones often don't enable this - for genuine safety
reasons.)


--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Imitation is the sincerest form of Television." - Mighty Mouse

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Bill in Co
writes:
PCR wrote:
[]
The only thing the computer did when I turned it on was show an amber
color for the power on button. No sounds, no booting, nada.

That's pretty scary -- not really much to go on.

Well actually, the nicest things to fix are the ones that are completely
dead! The toughest things are the intermittents, or ones with glitches,
it
seems (esp for electronics :-)

Agreed. And in computers, you're never sure if it's a software fault
either! (Well, not unless it's _obviously_ hardware in some way.)
[]
I'm OK now -- but I need to buy a new backup hard drive, a new CMOS
battery -- & a new monitor!

That's a bit to buy! Maybe it's time for a new computer + monitor.
:-)
One with WinXP - IF you can even find one, nowadays. I'm telling ya,
PCR, that it sure is a lot less prone to blue screens!

I fear I'm with Bill there on the reliability - though not the
availability: the standard netbook pattern, which is 160G/1G/XP Home, is
still widely available, including ones in the form of a tiny box that
you just connect a keyboard and monitor to. (Sometimes called a netbox.)

Well, I wasn't thinking of netbooks, but just desktops. :-) (haven't
ever tried to get used to a laptop or netbook - don't need that)

I saw one recently for about 150 pounds (which is a good price for it in
UK) which would even drive an HDTV. Just budget the slight extra for the
external optical drive. (There's a Compaq model that actually includes
the optical drive in the box - and at a reasonable cost [about 180,
IIRR, in UK] - but it's hard to find.) The basic template also comes as
an all-in-one, i. e. what looks like a big monitor but it has the
computer built into it somewhere (and sometimes a slot for the keyboard
when not in use).

These underpowered-by-today's-standards machines will still outperform
most '98-generation machines, and can be made to look and behave
sufficiently like a '98 machine for many of us - but with, as Bill says,
greater reliability (I don't think I've ever had a blue screen: the odd
freeze, though the sammynetbook site suggests that's due to the latest
video driver).

Yup, blue screens are extremely rare now (using XP). I noticed the
difference just going back briefly to the 98 computer trying to get a
hi-speed modem installed, and all of that.

(The fact that it showed that color meant at least it was plugged in

I know my monitor's light will go to amber when it is in standby/asleep.
I should put this computer to sleep & see whether the same is true of
the computer's light. I wonder whether mine too will be amber the day my
own 10 year old power supply dies. I'll have to remember this.

Can't be sure. There may be differences between brands.

The colour of the light, if any, both when on and when in standby, is at
the whim of the case designer, not the innards - so there are myriad
combinations. (Blue, at least for the on colour, seems to be the current
fashion.)

Seems to be. Mine is glowing blue now, but when I first turn it on it's
amber as I recall. Not sure how that is done, however. Maybe it's a
multi-color LED depending on the applied voltage.


[]
Good going. I haven't even done a power supply yet.

Replacing it wasn't too difficult. Just had to be really careful about
remembering which connectors went where (there were quite a few in my
case,
and I got the exact replacement this time, having been burned before :-).

Though I don't think there are any connectors that can be connected to
the wrong place, or the wrong way round - you just need to make sure you
get the connectors you need, which is mostly the big four-socket ones
for most drives and some fans, the little one for the floppy if you have
one, the big one (make sure it's the right one, or an adapter) for the
motherboard, and the smaller one (four in a square, or sometimes six
nowadays I think) for the processor. Count before unplugging, especially
if you have lots of drives and fans, especially the four-in-a-row types:
if the new supply hasn't enough connectors, you need to remember to get
some splitter leads at the same time as the new supply (often called Y
leads for the obvious reason).

This supply had a bunch of connectors, but it's true they pretty well only
fit what they're intended to. :-)

I was reading that there are a few horror stories about some power
supplies in the past, that when they failed, would take out the
motherboard along with them (due to excessive voltages on some rails
- now that's BAD!).


Sounds pretty horrible, yeah.

It's unforgiveable, actually. That, in and of itself, should put the
power supply company out of business!

They probably are, but their supplies may be still around!

Possibly, although I would hope by now it's pretty rare.

[]
I think that's usually more the norm, fortunately. From what I've
experienced, car batteries last about 5 years - give or take. I don't
think I've ever had one go 10 years.

Expensive ones are sometimes just deeper: as time goes by, and bits
flake off the plates, it piles up in the bottom of the cells. When it
builds up far enough to short the bottom edges of the plates, ... if the
cells are deeper, it's longer before that happens.

And maybe that's why they eventually all fail. Or at least most do because
of that reason.

(I suppose in theory
you could clean out the crud, but the cells aren't usually accessible
these days - quite apart from needing somewhere to put the acid while
you're working, and the danger of working on something with so much
stored energy in it.) And do check the fluid levels - I've known a
battery that was very unwell come back to life amazingly when topped up!
(Again, modern ones often don't enable this - for genuine safety
reasons.)

Well, either for safety reasons, OR because it was just cheaper to make it
that way! Or a bit of both. And of course if it's sealed, they can
prevent any potential "newage" lawsuits (from people getting hurt by
spilling acid :-) OK, that may be a bit cynical, but I wouldn't be
surprised.

It's also quite rare out here in the USA nowadays to find any REAL gas
stations - ones that have both WATER (for the radiator) and AIR (for the
tires), again probably due to both reasons (i.e., it's cheaper not to, and
they can avoid any potential lawsuits from careless customers getting
hurt!).

But it didn't use to be this way a few decades ago. Of course in those
days, we were able to get free maps of the States at the local gas (petrol)
stations. OK, that's dating back to the 50's, 60's, and perhaps 70's.

In message , Bill in Co
writes:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
[]
I fear I'm with Bill there on the reliability - though not the
availability: the standard netbook pattern, which is 160G/1G/XP Home, is
still widely available, including ones in the form of a tiny box that
you just connect a keyboard and monitor to. (Sometimes called a netbox.)

Well, I wasn't thinking of netbooks, but just desktops. :-) (haven't
ever tried to get used to a laptop or netbook - don't need that)

What I was saying was that you can get the standard netbook innards - as
I said, 160G/1G/XP Home - in a little box about the size of a router;
it's basically a desktop, in that you connect a keyboard and mouse and
monitor to it, just very small. (At least one model comes with fixings
so you can fix it to the back of an LCD monitor, using the fixings that
are designed for wall-mounting the monitor.) There's also that Compaq
model, if you can find it, that has the optical drive built in - that is
even more a desktop machine: it's similar in size and layout to the
(very) small towers made by Asus and others. But also, you can always
use a netbook or laptop as a desktop - i. e. plug in an external
keyboard, monitor, and mouse - and still have the option of portability
should you ever need it.
[]
Yup, blue screens are extremely rare now (using XP). I noticed the
difference just going back briefly to the 98 computer trying to get a
hi-speed modem installed, and all of that.

Especially if it was/is USB connection (not so much blue screen, but
much more fiddly to set up).
[]
The colour of the light, if any, both when on and when in standby, is at
the whim of the case designer, not the innards - so there are myriad
combinations. (Blue, at least for the on colour, seems to be the current
fashion.)

Seems to be. Mine is glowing blue now, but when I first turn it on it's
amber as I recall. Not sure how that is done, however. Maybe it's a
multi-color LED depending on the applied voltage.

Hmm; interesting idea! I've never seen a multi-chip LED wired that way
(both chips same way round): they usually either have three leads
(common anode or cathode), or the two chips wired opposite way round
(maybe that's what you meant).
[]
This supply had a bunch of connectors, but it's true they pretty well only
fit what they're intended to. :-)

The main gotchas these days are the big connector for the motherboard -
they've recently gone up (20 to 24 pins, I think), though adapters are
available. The one to drive the processor directly I think may also come
in a couple of flavours now.
[car batteries]
Expensive ones are sometimes just deeper: as time goes by, and bits
flake off the plates, it piles up in the bottom of the cells. When it
builds up far enough to short the bottom edges of the plates, ... if the
cells are deeper, it's longer before that happens.

And maybe that's why they eventually all fail. Or at least most do because
of that reason.
Could well be.
[]
(Again, modern ones often don't enable this - for genuine safety
reasons.)

Well, either for safety reasons, OR because it was just cheaper to make it
that way! Or a bit of both. And of course if it's sealed, they can
prevent any potential "newage" lawsuits (from people getting hurt by
spilling acid :-) OK, that may be a bit cynical, but I wouldn't be
surprised.

(I don't know the term "newage".) The cynic in me thinks it's more a
matter of preventing maintenance, but I suspect it genuinely is the
safety aspects that is the reason, rather than it being cheaper.

It's also quite rare out here in the USA nowadays to find any REAL gas
stations - ones that have both WATER (for the radiator) and AIR (for the
tires), again probably due to both reasons (i.e., it's cheaper not to, and
they can avoid any potential lawsuits from careless customers getting
hurt!).

Ah, here in UK, the trend is towards still providing them, but you now
have to put a coin in (for the air, anyway - it runs the compressor for
a set time, which to be fair is usually well long enough).

But it didn't use to be this way a few decades ago. Of course in those
days, we were able to get free maps of the States at the local gas (petrol)
stations. OK, that's dating back to the 50's, 60's, and perhaps 70's.

And a team of uniformed attendants appeared like magic, to clean your
windscreen, check your fluids, and so on, while Mr. Sandman played over
the Tannoy ... [I don't remember it - I was born 1960, and I don't think
it was _quite_ like that in UK anyway - but I've seen "Back to the
future" (-:]

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Life, liberty and the happiness of pursuit!