Getting NTFS access in DOS of an external USB drive?

Thanks Glen.

It looks like the DiskInternals one ("NTFS Reader for Windows") is more
basic, and for read-only (which admitedly is probably all I need), while the
Paragon one is a bit more full featured, and allows both read and write
access to the NTFS drive. Both are free (although the Paragon one used to
be payware).

Also, thanks for the info on the SATA adapters. Hopefully I'll get my XP
computer back and running so I won't have to go there. :-) (I'm
assuming I have a dead power supply there and will replace it shortly (only
the amber power button light turns on). But C'est La Vie...


glee wrote:
The Paragon utility and the Diskinternals utility should both give you
the functions you need.

You CAN connect a SATA drive to an older computer with no SATA
connections, using inexpensive adapters.

Example:
Kingwin ADP-06 SATA Hard Drive, CD/DVD Drive to IDE/PATA Bridge Adapter
Converter.
http://www.amazon.com/Kingwin-ADP-06.../dp/B002SZDOM6



"Bill in Co." wrote in message
...

Addendum:
In case anybody is interested, I did find an app that allows NTFS file
access within Win98 to allow you to share files, even if the NTFS
drive is
in an external USB enclosure. It is Paragon's "NTFS for Win98". I
mention this in case anybody else here is also using both FAT32 and
NTFS
(like in WinXP or later), and wants some NTFS access within Win98 to
be able
to share or transfer some files.

As for being able to do this in DOS (with the limitations mentioned
below -
an external USB drive with NTFS on it), not sure if that is going to
be
possible, but at least this is an option. :-)

Bill in Co. wrote:
I'm temporarily back to my Win98SE computer now since the XP one has
a
problem, but would like (if possible) to access some files on it.

I am wondering if there is any way to access my WinXP drive (which is
NTFS)
inside an external USB enclosure (which I already have), using
something
like NTFS4DOS or whatever. But I've already tried booting up in
NTFS4DOS
on a floppy, and it can't access external USB drive enclosures, it
seems.
I gather it only works if the drive is directly connected inside the
computer, which I cannot do.
I can't put the XP drive directly inside this computer, as it's a
SATA
drive, and this Win98 computer only takes IDE drives.

It's not the end of the world if I can't do this, but I was just
wondering
if it is at all possible (as my XP computer is completely dead at the
moment). I'm guessing there is a limitation here in trying to use
something like NTFS4DOS to access a drive connected to the USB port,
and
that it isn't even possible.

--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009
A+
http://dts-l.net/

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 13 Jun 2010 12:03:21 -0600, "Bill in Co."
wrote:

Thanks Glen.

It looks like the DiskInternals one ("NTFS Reader for Windows") is
more
basic, and for read-only (which admitedly is probably all I need),
while the
Paragon one is a bit more full featured, and allows both read and
write
access to the NTFS drive. Both are free (although the Paragon one
used to
be payware).

Also, thanks for the info on the SATA adapters. Hopefully I'll get
my XP
computer back and running so I won't have to go there. :-) (I'm
assuming I have a dead power supply there and will replace it shortly
(only
the amber power button light turns on). But C'est La Vie...

A couple more ideas.
Install a second hard drive on the Win98 machine and install Windows
2000 dual booted on it. Win2K will read NTFS.

I heard that some of those bootable Linux CDs will boot to Linux from
the CD and it can read NTFS. I know nothing about Linux, so dont
quote me on it, but I have read this more than once.

Next time you install XP, format the drive to Fat32. I will not
allow NTFS on any of my computers. If I cant access my files from
Dos, I wont use it. I saw a friend of mine lose 5 years of work
because of NTFS. Something got fouled up with XP and there was no way
to access the data. They did not have a repair CD and tried to repair
XP with the wrong kind of XP (like used the home edition repair cd on
the Pro version, or something like that). They just had a huge mess.
I offerred to help them save their files using Dos (before I knew what
NTFS was). Could not read the drive. I then tried to plug that drive
into my Win98 machine. It was a common IDE drive so it physically
connected, but it could not be read. After that, they formatted it
and lost everything including all their family photos. I did not use
XP until 2008 because I always blamed XP. Then I learned it was the
NTFS, not XP. XP runs just as well on a Fat32 drive, as does my
dualbooted Win2K on this (win98) computer.

Not only that, but I still run some old dos programs that must be
booted directly from Dos. You cant do that with NTFS. NTFS is a
complete useless format, made for people who dont value their data.
If all you do is go on the web and play games, use it. If you store
photos or other important data, use Fat32.


Just because you don't understand NTFS, and are not aware of the
available tools for data recovery from outside the operating system,
beside using DOS, does not mean FAT32 is better...it isn't. In fact
you are far more likely to LOSE data and have unrecoverable file system
errors using FAT/FAT32.

The various Linux bootable Live CDs you mention, like the Ubuntu Live
CD, will read your hard drive whether it is FAT32 or NTFS, and you can
copy and recover files with ease, as long as the drive is physically
sound and can be read at all.

A drive can also be removed and slaved to another computer, and read.
You tried to slave to a Win98 computer....well of course you can't read
the NTFS drive there. That's like complaining that you can't find a
computer with the right hardware to plug your old MFM or RLL hard drive
so you can recover its data, so you will not use new hardware. Try
using a computer and OS from the 21st Century to recover the files,
instead of trying to recover them using an old Win98 system.
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009
A+
http://dts-l.net/

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 13 Jun 2010 12:03:21 -0600, "Bill in Co."
wrote:

Thanks Glen.

It looks like the DiskInternals one ("NTFS Reader for Windows") is
more
basic, and for read-only (which admitedly is probably all I need),
while the
Paragon one is a bit more full featured, and allows both read and
write
access to the NTFS drive. Both are free (although the Paragon one
used to
be payware).

Also, thanks for the info on the SATA adapters. Hopefully I'll get
my XP
computer back and running so I won't have to go there. :-) (I'm
assuming I have a dead power supply there and will replace it shortly
(only
the amber power button light turns on). But C'est La Vie...

A couple more ideas.
Install a second hard drive on the Win98 machine and install Windows
2000 dual booted on it. Win2K will read NTFS.

I heard that some of those bootable Linux CDs will boot to Linux from
the CD and it can read NTFS. I know nothing about Linux, so dont
quote me on it, but I have read this more than once.

Next time you install XP, format the drive to Fat32. I will not
allow NTFS on any of my computers. If I cant access my files from
Dos, I wont use it. I saw a friend of mine lose 5 years of work
because of NTFS. Something got fouled up with XP and there was no way
to access the data. They did not have a repair CD and tried to repair
XP with the wrong kind of XP (like used the home edition repair cd on
the Pro version, or something like that). They just had a huge mess.
I offerred to help them save their files using Dos (before I knew what
NTFS was). Could not read the drive. I then tried to plug that drive
into my Win98 machine. It was a common IDE drive so it physically
connected, but it could not be read. After that, they formatted it
and lost everything including all their family photos. I did not use
XP until 2008 because I always blamed XP. Then I learned it was the
NTFS, not XP. XP runs just as well on a Fat32 drive, as does my
dualbooted Win2K on this (win98) computer.

Not only that, but I still run some old dos programs that must be
booted directly from Dos. You cant do that with NTFS. NTFS is a
complete useless format, made for people who dont value their data.
If all you do is go on the web and play games, use it. If you store
photos or other important data, use Fat32.


Just because you don't understand NTFS, and are not aware of the
available tools for data recovery from outside the operating system,
beside using DOS, does not mean FAT32 is better...it isn't. In fact
you are far more likely to LOSE data and have unrecoverable file system
errors using FAT/FAT32.

The various Linux bootable Live CDs you mention, like the Ubuntu Live
CD, will read your hard drive whether it is FAT32 or NTFS, and you can
copy and recover files with ease, as long as the drive is physically
sound and can be read at all.

A drive can also be removed and slaved to another computer, and read.
You tried to slave to a Win98 computer....well of course you can't read
the NTFS drive there. That's like complaining that you can't find a
computer with the right hardware to plug your old MFM or RLL hard drive
so you can recover its data, so you will not use new hardware. Try
using a computer and OS from the 21st Century to recover the files,
instead of trying to recover them using an old Win98 system.
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009
A+
http://dts-l.net/

wrote in
:

On Sun, 13 Jun 2010 05:34:00 +0000 (UTC), thanatoid
wrote:


Another reason to use good ol' FAT32 instead of anything
with "new technology" in the name.
But with MS, anything newer is ALWAYS better, right?

I agree 100%. I have another computer with XP (fat32), and
I always this old computer with good old Win98 (and my
dualbooted Win2K, and I rarely use 2K too). MS reached
it's peak of perfection with Win98. They ****ed up with
WinME (even though it had a few good improvements), after
that, everything became ****. If they had fixed the
problems in WinME, they could have made a really good OS.
Win2K is tolerable, after that, they turned to ****. I
never really cared for XP, I just use it for a few programs
that wont run on anything else. Most of the time the XP
computer collects dust.

Amen (in my case just my XP partition is getting dusty).

Aside from the ONE piece of hardware I installed XP for - which
I have yet to use, almost a year after purchasing it (although
of course I am not blaming XP for /that/) - the ONLY advantage
of the system that I have seen so far - at the price of dealing
with the utterly idiotic and incomprehensible system design and
operation - is that vlc for XP has some really nice features
which the last vlc for 9x does not. Otherwise, XP is just a
royal PITA in EVERY respect.

It was very interesting to read how you can use DOS programs
with a FAT32 XP install. The FIRST program I install on ANY
computer I ever have to deal with it in ANY manner is XTree Gold
for DOS.

"Although various Microsoft publications, including a 1998
question-and-answer session with Bill Gates, reveal that the
letters 'NT' were expanded to 'New Technology' for marketing
purposes, they originally stood for 'N-Ten', the emulator that
NT was developed under. However, they no longer carry any
specific meaning."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_NT

AFA glee's comments of "other tools" to recover NTFS-****ed
data, they may well exist but few people know about them. Not to
mention the joy of going through a 400GB or larger single-
partition system to get at your lost files. Got a month to
spare?

I once saw an MVP (sic) in THIS group (IIRC) refer to NTFS as a
"disaster". Quite an endorsement.


--
Of course, it is no easy matter to be polite; in so far, I mean,
as it requires us to show great respect for everybody, whereas
most people deserve none at all; and again in so far as it
demands that we should feign the most lively interest in people,
when we must be very glad that we have nothing to do with them.
- Arthur Schopenhauer

"thanatoid" wrote in message
...
wrote in
:

snip

AFA glee's comments of "other tools" to recover NTFS-****ed
data, they may well exist but few people know about them. Not to
mention the joy of going through a 400GB or larger single-
partition system to get at your lost files. Got a month to
spare?
snip

Data is FAR more likely to be damaged from errors when using the FAT32
files system than when using NTFS. That's one of the things on the plus
side for NTFS.
As for "tools", if you're trying to recover files from an unbootable
NTFS disk, any of the very well known and easy to use Live CDs will
allow you to view all the files in a simple file manager and copy
whatever you want...no special skills needed. It's no more
time-consuming to find files on a 400GB partition than a small one,
using a file manager from a Live CD....you will see the same folder
tress on the drive as you see in Windows.

Are you saying few people know about Knoppix or Ubuntu Live CDs, the
Ultimate Boot CD (UBCD) and Ultimate Boot CD for Windows (UBCD4Win), and
similar well-known discs? You're wrong.
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009
A+
http://dts-l.net/

"thanatoid" wrote in message
...
wrote in
:

snip

AFA glee's comments of "other tools" to recover NTFS-****ed
data, they may well exist but few people know about them. Not to
mention the joy of going through a 400GB or larger single-
partition system to get at your lost files. Got a month to
spare?
snip

Data is FAR more likely to be damaged from errors when using the FAT32
files system than when using NTFS. That's one of the things on the plus
side for NTFS.
As for "tools", if you're trying to recover files from an unbootable
NTFS disk, any of the very well known and easy to use Live CDs will
allow you to view all the files in a simple file manager and copy
whatever you want...no special skills needed. It's no more
time-consuming to find files on a 400GB partition than a small one,
using a file manager from a Live CD....you will see the same folder
tress on the drive as you see in Windows.

Are you saying few people know about Knoppix or Ubuntu Live CDs, the
Ultimate Boot CD (UBCD) and Ultimate Boot CD for Windows (UBCD4Win), and
similar well-known discs? You're wrong.
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009
A+
http://dts-l.net/

"glee" wrote in
:

"thanatoid" wrote in message
...
wrote in
:

snip

AFA glee's comments of "other tools" to recover
NTFS-****ed data, they may well exist but few people know
about them. Not to mention the joy of going through a
400GB or larger single- partition system to get at your
lost files. Got a month to spare?
snip

Data is FAR more likely to be damaged from errors when
using the FAT32 files system than when using NTFS. That's
one of the things on the plus side for NTFS.

Well, from what I have read and experienced over 15 years, while
it may be absolutely true, it is also largely theoretical. I do
not repair/set-up computers for a living (or for fun - I did
once for two friends and gave up half-dead after a few days, I
suppose you can do it with a lot of tranquilizers and when you
charge $50+/hour, but I am NEVER doing it for anyone for free
again) but I don't know anyone whose file system (either kind)
errors caused data loss. I can't even remember any Usenet posts
about how FAT screwed up someone's system. I /have/ personally
experienced several dying drives and I have fubared my
partitions by playing with tools too advanced for thanatoids,
but recovery programs and "testdisk" fixed all that.

As for "tools", if you're trying to recover files from an
unbootable NTFS disk, any of the very well known and easy
to use Live CDs will allow you to view all the files in a
simple file manager and copy whatever you want...no special
skills needed. It's no more time-consuming to find files
on a 400GB partition than a small one, using a file manager
from a Live CD....you will see the same folder tress on the
drive as you see in Windows.

Well, seeing as I have no experience with NTFS and do not even
know what a LiveCD is (I do know what Hiren's is), I suppose I
should have just kept my mouth shut.

Are you saying few people know about Knoppix or Ubuntu Live
CDs, the Ultimate Boot CD (UBCD) and Ultimate Boot CD for
Windows (UBCD4Win), and similar well-known discs? You're
wrong.

Pick 20 computer owners (IOW random people from the street) and
ask them and you will find out I am right.

If someone even KNOWS how to post a question the Usenet, s/he is
not an average computer user.
You've been hanging around pros for too long.

[BTW, I think I forgot to correct my previous post, the MVP used
the word 'fiasco', not 'disaster'. Same thing, but I like to be
accurate when quoting.]


--
Of course, it is no easy matter to be polite; in so far, I mean,
as it requires us to show great respect for everybody, whereas
most people deserve none at all; and again in so far as it
demands that we should feign the most lively interest in people,
when we must be very glad that we have nothing to do with them.
- Arthur Schopenhauer

"glee" wrote in
:

"thanatoid" wrote in message
...
wrote in
:

snip

AFA glee's comments of "other tools" to recover
NTFS-****ed data, they may well exist but few people know
about them. Not to mention the joy of going through a
400GB or larger single- partition system to get at your
lost files. Got a month to spare?
snip

Data is FAR more likely to be damaged from errors when
using the FAT32 files system than when using NTFS. That's
one of the things on the plus side for NTFS.

Well, from what I have read and experienced over 15 years, while
it may be absolutely true, it is also largely theoretical. I do
not repair/set-up computers for a living (or for fun - I did
once for two friends and gave up half-dead after a few days, I
suppose you can do it with a lot of tranquilizers and when you
charge $50+/hour, but I am NEVER doing it for anyone for free
again) but I don't know anyone whose file system (either kind)
errors caused data loss. I can't even remember any Usenet posts
about how FAT screwed up someone's system. I /have/ personally
experienced several dying drives and I have fubared my
partitions by playing with tools too advanced for thanatoids,
but recovery programs and "testdisk" fixed all that.

As for "tools", if you're trying to recover files from an
unbootable NTFS disk, any of the very well known and easy
to use Live CDs will allow you to view all the files in a
simple file manager and copy whatever you want...no special
skills needed. It's no more time-consuming to find files
on a 400GB partition than a small one, using a file manager
from a Live CD....you will see the same folder tress on the
drive as you see in Windows.

Well, seeing as I have no experience with NTFS and do not even
know what a LiveCD is (I do know what Hiren's is), I suppose I
should have just kept my mouth shut.

Are you saying few people know about Knoppix or Ubuntu Live
CDs, the Ultimate Boot CD (UBCD) and Ultimate Boot CD for
Windows (UBCD4Win), and similar well-known discs? You're
wrong.

Pick 20 computer owners (IOW random people from the street) and
ask them and you will find out I am right.

If someone even KNOWS how to post a question the Usenet, s/he is
not an average computer user.
You've been hanging around pros for too long.

[BTW, I think I forgot to correct my previous post, the MVP used
the word 'fiasco', not 'disaster'. Same thing, but I like to be
accurate when quoting.]


--
Of course, it is no easy matter to be polite; in so far, I mean,
as it requires us to show great respect for everybody, whereas
most people deserve none at all; and again in so far as it
demands that we should feign the most lively interest in people,
when we must be very glad that we have nothing to do with them.
- Arthur Schopenhauer

thanatoid wrote:


Well, seeing as I have no experience with NTFS and do not even
know what a LiveCD is (I do know what Hiren's is), I suppose I
should have just kept my mouth shut.

A Live CD is a bootable CD that allows you to run a Linux variant
while keeping your "real" OS intact and untouched. It lets you see how
the other half lives while doing no damage to your machine. In this
case, it would run an OS that can access the disk you're trying to
read.

--
Tim Slattery

http://members.cox.net/slatteryt

thanatoid wrote:


Well, seeing as I have no experience with NTFS and do not even
know what a LiveCD is (I do know what Hiren's is), I suppose I
should have just kept my mouth shut.

A Live CD is a bootable CD that allows you to run a Linux variant
while keeping your "real" OS intact and untouched. It lets you see how
the other half lives while doing no damage to your machine. In this
case, it would run an OS that can access the disk you're trying to
read.

--
Tim Slattery

http://members.cox.net/slatteryt