HDD upgrade - no boot - 48LBA? KM400-M2

On Fri, 05 Nov 2010 14:22:01 -0500, legg wrote:

On Fri, 05 Nov 2010 11:10:08 -0400, Bill Blanton
wrote:


..........................
At this point, however, after zeroing discs, the W2K installation
appears to be broken. When I try to boot into it now, I get past the
security cntrl-alt-del and password entry, only to be returned to the
security cntrl-alt-delete window again. There is a long
black-screen-with-cursor wait the first time this screen is returned,
but quicker response on subsequent OS farts.

Have attempted an emergency repair (no ERDisk option) with no change
in behaviour. I'm exercising usenet from the SW on the source W98 disk
now, before contemplating other methods of W2K repair, using the W2K
CD or start-up discs. Issues with the W98 back-up target will have to
wait.


OK - after failing to log into the HDD or recovery console, I dusted
off an ancient W2K hdd previously used for the same function in this
machine with similiar organization (but in ntfs in those days for one
reason or another). It sounds like a cross between a buzz-saw and a
jet engine.

I plugged it into primary slave and could boot up into the source W98
(primary master)or the WK2 OS with no issues or disk label errors (W98
simply ignores the ntfs, as expected). It didn't recognize some of the
hardware, but who cares?

So how can a HDD that wasn't used here in the last 5 or 6 years boot
up and run without problems, when todays up-to-date,
flavour-of-the-week is too confused to keep drive letters strait or
accept a log-in?

With the target W98 in primary master, I get the same boot freeze as
always. I'm going to repeat new target backups using some other method
besides WDLG 11, if ever the system gets back to normal. Maybe even
dump the WD 160G drives.

Is there anything I can do, with the working system, to get the normal
W2K HDD back into it's position?

RL

inline.....
"legg" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 5 Nov 2010 16:00:41 -0400, "glee"
wrote:
snip

Drive letter assignment changed?

Unable to log on if the boot partition drive letter has changed
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=249321

I just looooove MS support docs. Can you log on as administrator, if
the problem you're trying to solve is logging on? Unfortunately, this
machine is not on a network - running regedt32 requires a W2K or later
OS to run from, as well.

The suggestions that mention logging on, are logging on via a network
connection, where the drive letter does not matter. Being Win2K, MS
probably assumes a network would be likely. As for Regedt32, the
article states to use either Regedt32.exe OR Regedit.exe.


Of course they're not anticipating people intentionally wiping mbrs.
The only un-networked action suggested is removing recently cloned
drives. The source W98 HD isn'y the clone.

Actually, they mention others, like #5 in the article....although I
don't know that doing fdsik /mbr on the Win2K drive from a floppy boot,
with only the Win2k drive connected, will help in this case.


Might be able to use the

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/223188/

link to rename drive H:\ to C:\, without rewriting signatures, if I'm
ever back in that working condition. Was reluctant to start editing
the registry while the main boot freeze issue dominated.

I'm going to see if the recovery console will do anything first.

I assume you already tried Safe Mode with the same result of a log-in
loop?

--
Glen Ventura
MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009
CompTIA A+
http://dts-l.net/

On Fri, 5 Nov 2010 18:45:50 -0400, "glee"
wrote:

inline.....
"legg" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 5 Nov 2010 16:00:41 -0400, "glee"
wrote:
snip

Drive letter assignment changed?

Unable to log on if the boot partition drive letter has changed
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=249321

I just looooove MS support docs. Can you log on as administrator, if
the problem you're trying to solve is logging on? Unfortunately, this
machine is not on a network - running regedt32 requires a W2K or later
OS to run from, as well.

The suggestions that mention logging on, are logging on via a network
connection, where the drive letter does not matter. Being Win2K, MS
probably assumes a network would be likely. As for Regedt32, the
article states to use either Regedt32.exe OR Regedit.exe.


Of course they're not anticipating people intentionally wiping mbrs.
The only un-networked action suggested is removing recently cloned
drives. The source W98 HD isn'y the clone.

Actually, they mention others, like #5 in the article....although I
don't know that doing fdsik /mbr on the Win2K drive from a floppy boot,
with only the Win2k drive connected, will help in this case.

It would certainly put an end to a W98 OS in C:\, wouldn't it, at
least without a lot of other screwing around later.


Might be able to use the

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/223188/

link to rename drive H:\ to C:\, without rewriting signatures, if I'm
ever back in that working condition. Was reluctant to start editing
the registry while the main boot freeze issue dominated.

I'm going to see if the recovery console will do anything first.

I assume you already tried Safe Mode with the same result of a log-in
loop?

Safe mode stops after loading drivers. Recovery console won't allow
log-in to the installation.

On 11/5/2010 20:06, legg wrote:
On Fri, 5 Nov 2010 18:45:50 -0400,
wrote:

inline.....
wrote in message
...
On Fri, 5 Nov 2010 16:00:41 -0400,
wrote:
snip

Drive letter assignment changed?

Unable to log on if the boot partition drive letter has changed
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=249321

I just looooove MS support docs. Can you log on as administrator, if
the problem you're trying to solve is logging on? Unfortunately, this
machine is not on a network - running regedt32 requires a W2K or later
OS to run from, as well.

The suggestions that mention logging on, are logging on via a network
connection, where the drive letter does not matter. Being Win2K, MS
probably assumes a network would be likely. As for Regedt32, the
article states to use either Regedt32.exe OR Regedit.exe.


Of course they're not anticipating people intentionally wiping mbrs.
The only un-networked action suggested is removing recently cloned
drives. The source W98 HD isn'y the clone.

Actually, they mention others, like #5 in the article....although I
don't know that doing fdsik /mbr on the Win2K drive from a floppy boot,
with only the Win2k drive connected, will help in this case.

It would certainly put an end to a W98 OS in C:\, wouldn't it, at
least without a lot of other screwing around later.

Doing an fdisk /mbr on the primary master is the equivalent of an fdisk
/cmbr 1, or an fdisk /cmbr 2 on the second drive, so you likely won't
gain anything. Your boot files ntldr and ntdetect.com and boot.ini
should be in the root of the 98 volume. That's also the volume set
active. Booting with the 2000 drive as the boot drive will likely fail.

legg, what *exactly* is your configuration, ignoring the clone/target.

primary master
partition w98 C:
any more partitions?

primary slave
partition w2000 D:
any more partitions?


After clearing the sigs on the 98 and 2000 drive and rebooting 2000
should have been reenumerated as D:



Might be able to use the

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/223188/

link to rename drive H:\ to C:\, without rewriting signatures, if I'm
ever back in that working condition. Was reluctant to start editing
the registry while the main boot freeze issue dominated.

I'm going to see if the recovery console will do anything first.

I assume you already tried Safe Mode with the same result of a log-in
loop?

Safe mode stops after loading drivers. Recovery console won't allow
log-in to the installation.

There's a way to get the disk signature back, but it's not a simple
operation. It would require loading the system hive and getting the
value out of the MountedDevices key.

On Fri, 05 Nov 2010 20:22:39 -0400, Bill Blanton
wrote:

On 11/5/2010 20:06, legg wrote:
On Fri, 5 Nov 2010 18:45:50 -0400,
wrote:

inline.....
wrote in message
...
On Fri, 5 Nov 2010 16:00:41 -0400,
wrote:
snip

Drive letter assignment changed?

Unable to log on if the boot partition drive letter has changed
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=249321

I just looooove MS support docs. Can you log on as administrator, if
the problem you're trying to solve is logging on? Unfortunately, this
machine is not on a network - running regedt32 requires a W2K or later
OS to run from, as well.

The suggestions that mention logging on, are logging on via a network
connection, where the drive letter does not matter. Being Win2K, MS
probably assumes a network would be likely. As for Regedt32, the
article states to use either Regedt32.exe OR Regedit.exe.


Of course they're not anticipating people intentionally wiping mbrs.
The only un-networked action suggested is removing recently cloned
drives. The source W98 HD isn'y the clone.

Actually, they mention others, like #5 in the article....although I
don't know that doing fdsik /mbr on the Win2K drive from a floppy boot,
with only the Win2k drive connected, will help in this case.

It would certainly put an end to a W98 OS in C:\, wouldn't it, at
least without a lot of other screwing around later.

Doing an fdisk /mbr on the primary master is the equivalent of an fdisk
/cmbr 1, or an fdisk /cmbr 2 on the second drive, so you likely won't
gain anything. Your boot files ntldr and ntdetect.com and boot.ini
should be in the root of the 98 volume. That's also the volume set
active. Booting with the 2000 drive as the boot drive will likely fail.

legg, what *exactly* is your configuration, ignoring the clone/target.

primary master
partition w98 C:
any more partitions?

primary slave
partition w2000 D:
any more partitions?

There are two logical partitions after the W2K D:, both data.

After clearing the sigs on the 98 and 2000 drive and rebooting 2000
should have been reenumerated as D:

Is, was and (hoping it) will continue to be D:


Might be able to use the

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/223188/

link to rename drive H:\ to C:\, without rewriting signatures, if I'm
ever back in that working condition. Was reluctant to start editing
the registry while the main boot freeze issue dominated.

I'm going to see if the recovery console will do anything first.

I assume you already tried Safe Mode with the same result of a log-in
loop?

Safe mode stops after loading drivers. Recovery console won't allow
log-in to the installation.

There's a way to get the disk signature back, but it's not a simple
operation. It would require loading the system hive and getting the
value out of the MountedDevices key.

Anything I can do with the old working W2K that I dusted off? It's
the grandaddy of the broken one, so some working files should be
unaltered. It even has the two data partitions hanging on to it, but
it (alone) is ntfs.

RL

On 11/5/2010 18:07, legg wrote:

Is there anything I can do, with the working system, to get the normal
W2K HDD back into it's position?

I found this program that will let you edit 2000's registry drive letter
assignments from a DOS floppy boot.

The home site:
http://www.partition-saving.com/

The program:
http://damien.guibouret.free.fr/savepart.zip

Use Win98 to download and unzip to a folder on your HDD.
Copy the files savepart.exe and drvpart.sys to a 98 boot floppy.
(delete format.com, sys.com, more.com, doskey.com, if you need more room)

Configure your HDDs as they were before. 98 as the 1st drive, and the
borked 2K as the second.

Boot with the floppy and run
savepart -l en -u
(case sensitive, and that's a small L for "language")

When the first screen comes up, choose the disk of the 2K install.
(numbering starts from 0, so should be disk 1)

Choose the partition that Windows is on.

Browse to and choose the Windows folder .
(probably WINNT)

Here's where it gets non-intuitive...

You should be at a screen that says "Choose element to modify in registry".
Choose the 2K disk again.

"Choose element to modify in registry"
Take the 2K partition.

Now you want to choose the drive letter D: if that was your Win2K drive
assignment. The "ID disk" value listed should be the old signature.
Write that down. At the top under "Disk identifier:" you'll see the new
number that will be written. Write that down too. Those 2 numbers should
not match.

The last screen is for confirmation of the write to the key
\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\MountedDevices\DosDevic e\D:
Choose "Yes" if correct, and you should be done. Remove the floppy and
reboot.

You might want to print this out before proceeding. As I said it's not
real intuitive, so be careful. Hopefully this gets your 2K install back.

On Sat, 06 Nov 2010 10:03:58 -0400, Bill Blanton
wrote:

I've copied and saved your instructions, but have some progress to
report.

I've managed to regain accress to the recovery console, following the
list of steps listed below:

W2K in pri master - jumpered master
pri slave vacant
W2K CD in optical sec master
W98 boot disk startup
fdisk /mbr
boot rewrite permission Y

removed floppy
boot from W2K cd
boot rewrite permission Y
allowed log-in to recovery console (good)
did nothing - exited

returned W2K to pri slave jumpered slave
returned source W98 to pri master
rebooted to W2K CD
allowed log-in to recovery console (still good)
did nothing - exited

reboot to W2K HDD
still looped at log-in

reboot to W98 HDD
boot rewrite permission Y
normal, all drives listed

reboot to W2K CD
allowed log-in to recovery console (still good)
did nothing - exited

reboot to W98 HDD
normal all drives listed

So, I think I'm looking for some way of correcting the W2K log-in loop
now with the recovery console accessible; possibly a properly parsed
fixmbr instruction. Perhaps I'm even in a position to use regedt32
from the console?

Don't think fixboot is needed, as there is no issue booting into
either OS, except for the W2K log-in glup.

Will make prep for editing the registry drive letter from DOS, but
will hold off until your advice here.

RL

On 11/6/2010 10:59, legg wrote:
On Sat, 06 Nov 2010 10:03:58 -0400, Bill Blanton
wrote:

I've copied and saved your instructions, but have some progress to
report.

I've managed to regain accress to the recovery console, following the
list of steps listed below:

W2K in pri master - jumpered master
pri slave vacant
W2K CD in optical sec master
W98 boot disk startup
fdisk /mbr
boot rewrite permission Y

removed floppy
boot from W2K cd
boot rewrite permission Y
allowed log-in to recovery console (good)
did nothing - exited

returned W2K to pri slave jumpered slave
returned source W98 to pri master
rebooted to W2K CD
allowed log-in to recovery console (still good)
did nothing - exited

reboot to W2K HDD
still looped at log-in

reboot to W98 HDD
boot rewrite permission Y
normal, all drives listed

reboot to W2K CD
allowed log-in to recovery console (still good)
did nothing - exited

reboot to W98 HDD
normal all drives listed

So, I think I'm looking for some way of correcting the W2K log-in loop
now with the recovery console accessible; possibly a properly parsed
fixmbr instruction. Perhaps I'm even in a position to use regedt32
from the console?

Fixmbr only writes the boot code to the MBR. The only difference from an
fdsik /mbr is that it doesn't overwrite the NT disk signature. I'm not
aware of any way of running regedit32 from recovery console.


Don't think fixboot is needed, as there is no issue booting into
either OS, except for the W2K log-in glup.

Right. The boot sectors are apparently ok.


Will make prep for editing the registry drive letter from DOS, but
will hold off until your advice here.

I'd try savepart. That should be the easiest way. The only other way to
access the 2K registry is going to be from another NT install. Which you
do have if necessary.

On Sat, 06 Nov 2010 11:41:06 -0400, Bill Blanton
wrote:



I'd try savepart. That should be the easiest way. The only other way to
access the 2K registry is going to be from another NT install. Which you
do have if necessary.

I repeated the savepart exercise twice, to check the numbers, but did
not make any changes. First with a DOS boot disc, then with a W98 boot
disc, as there was some ambiguity there - no difference save what got
deleted to fit new files.

The problem was that there appeared to be no difference between the
new disk ID number and the old one - a difference was expected.

savepart 1011061130 report window info follows:

disk identifier 07df957a offset 32256

id sig offset Raw
C: 07df957a 32256 7a 95 df 07 00 7e 00 00 00 00 00 00
D: 07df957a 18877017600 7a 95 df 07 00 6e 28 65 04 00 00 00
E: 07df957a 49285877760 7a 95 df 07 00 d0 aa 79 0b 00 00 00
F: 6bfe95be 49285877760 8e 95 fe 6b 00 d0 aa 79 0b 00 00 00
H: e497e497 32256 97 e4 97 e4 00 7e 00 00 00 00 00 00

no selection - exited program

- The new sig is the same as intended D: but the offset differs.
- The offset of F: shouldn't be the same as E:, should it (data
partitions)
- The H: partition is unanticipated - there's no partition after data,
just unpartitioned space.

The W2K partition is ~ 18G
The data partitions are both the same size ~ 28G
on this 80G drive.

RL

On 11/6/2010 13:04, legg wrote:
On Sat, 06 Nov 2010 11:41:06 -0400, Bill Blanton
wrote:



I'd try savepart. That should be the easiest way. The only other way to
access the 2K registry is going to be from another NT install. Which you
do have if necessary.

I repeated the savepart exercise twice, to check the numbers, but did
not make any changes. First with a DOS boot disc, then with a W98 boot
disc, as there was some ambiguity there - no difference save what got
deleted to fit new files.

The problem was that there appeared to be no difference between the
new disk ID number and the old one - a difference was expected.

savepart 1011061130 report window info follows:

disk identifier 07df957a offset 32256

id sig offset Raw
C: 07df957a 32256 7a 95 df 07 00 7e 00 00 00 00 00 00
D: 07df957a 18877017600 7a 95 df 07 00 6e 28 65 04 00 00 00
E: 07df957a 49285877760 7a 95 df 07 00 d0 aa 79 0b 00 00 00
F: 6bfe95be 49285877760 8e 95 fe 6b 00 d0 aa 79 0b 00 00 00
H: e497e497 32256 97 e4 97 e4 00 7e 00 00 00 00 00 00

no selection - exited program

- The new sig is the same as intended D: but the offset differs.

Ack

- The offset of F: shouldn't be the same as E:, should it (data
partitions)

These are "remembered" drive letters in the 2k registry, not a
representation of what is on disk. 6bfe95be may or may not be the old
signature.

- The H: partition is unanticipated - there's no partition after data,
just unpartitioned space.

That's probably the Win98 clone remembered letter.

What's troubling is that the C: sig should be a different disk ID. Do
you have a partition preceding the 2K partition? Or perhaps, C: is what
2k assigned to its own volume and that's the problem as it can't find
anything.

byte offset 32256 is sector 63, where most first partitions are located.
32256/512 = 63

What's the layout of that disk?