How to install WIN98 and WIN98SE on the same hardrive

I want to end up having my final operating system be WIN98SE. I do not have
the WIN98SE upgrade version I have the full WIN98SE version. When I try to
install SE on my hardrive a message occurs saying it recognizes WIN98 and to
install the SE upgrade edition which I do not have. I would like to have the
option upon boot up to choose which OS I want to load, ie; WIN98 or WIN98SE.
I want to do this so if I have some problems with SE and drivers etc., I can
still use WIN98 without interuption. My daughter needs to have computers for
college papers and do not want the computer to be out of service. I want to
install SE so I can install an external HD to my computer. Once I get the
bugs worked out of SE, I will then remove the WIN98 OS from my computer. Can
someone tell me how to set this up. Thank you in advance for your help.

My goodness, such a problem, if only the world had the same dilemma.

Friend, ..... Fdisk your hard-drive, Format it, Put in your Win98SE
disk and install it.
Do not even give a mere thought to win98, count your blessings that you
have win98SE at your fingertips.
There is no gain in having a dual-boot twixt the two, because the latter
is 'king' of both.


"mrbigbry" wrote in message
...
I want to end up having my final operating system be WIN98SE. I do not
have
the WIN98SE upgrade version I have the full WIN98SE version. When I try
to
install SE on my hardrive a message occurs saying it recognizes WIN98 and
to
install the SE upgrade edition which I do not have. I would like to have
the
option upon boot up to choose which OS I want to load, ie; WIN98 or
WIN98SE.
I want to do this so if I have some problems with SE and drivers etc., I
can
still use WIN98 without interuption. My daughter needs to have computers
for
college papers and do not want the computer to be out of service. I want
to
install SE so I can install an external HD to my computer. Once I get the
bugs worked out of SE, I will then remove the WIN98 OS from my computer.
Can
someone tell me how to set this up. Thank you in advance for your help.

I agree with one exception. The Fdisk should not be done until it's verified that all required
drivers are available on media other than the hard drive. This includes the MotherBoard drivers,
Graphics card, Sound card, etc.

Galen

"jez" wrote in message ...
My goodness, such a problem, if only the world had the same dilemma.

Friend, ..... Fdisk your hard-drive, Format it, Put in your Win98SE
disk and install it.
Do not even give a mere thought to win98, count your blessings that you
have win98SE at your fingertips.
There is no gain in having a dual-boot twixt the two, because the latter
is 'king' of both.


"mrbigbry" wrote in message
...
I want to end up having my final operating system be WIN98SE. I do not
have
the WIN98SE upgrade version I have the full WIN98SE version. When I try
to
install SE on my hardrive a message occurs saying it recognizes WIN98 and
to
install the SE upgrade edition which I do not have. I would like to have
the
option upon boot up to choose which OS I want to load, ie; WIN98 or
WIN98SE.
I want to do this so if I have some problems with SE and drivers etc., I
can
still use WIN98 without interuption. My daughter needs to have computers
for
college papers and do not want the computer to be out of service. I want
to
install SE so I can install an external HD to my computer. Once I get the
bugs worked out of SE, I will then remove the WIN98 OS from my computer.
Can
someone tell me how to set this up. Thank you in advance for your help.

"mrbigbry" wrote in message
...
I want to end up having my final operating system be WIN98SE. I do not
have
the WIN98SE upgrade version I have the full WIN98SE version. When I try
to
install SE on my hardrive a message occurs saying it recognizes WIN98
and
to
install the SE upgrade edition which I do not have. I would like to
have
the
option upon boot up to choose which OS I want to load, ie; WIN98 or
WIN98SE.
I want to do this so if I have some problems with SE and drivers etc.,
I
can
still use WIN98 without interuption. . . . I wannnt
install SE so I can install an external HD to my computer.

1. Do not follow instructions to FDISK or
FORMAT your hard drive before assessing
what material you want to preserve, e.g.
non-standard drivers etc.

2. For homework, read material on (re)installing
the OS on the web site:
http://home.satx.rr.com/badour/html/w98_restore.html

3. (Re)installation may be done from a DOS boot
(from floppy) or else through Windows (some upgrades.)
Since you "have the full WIN98SE version" download
the appropriate floppy from www.bootdisk.com (download
one EXEtable file, then run it to write mulltiple files to a
formatted floppy), then verify that your boot floppy
enables the CD drive, then run SETUP.EXE from the CD.

If this does not launch an installation process that
completes itself fullly (after reboots) post
back here. Some OS CDs dislike finding any
C:\Windows on the hard drive but can be fooled
by renaming it something else (via DOS to override
Windows protections.) On the other hand, an ancient
hard drive may behave better if you FDISK and
reFORMAT.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

Please bear with me. We need to know for sure just what you want to do. See
if I have it right. You now have a Windows 98 "Gold" system and you want to
upgrade to Windows 98SE. You want to do this slowly and carefully but you
don't want to deprive your daughter of the computer when she needs it. Thus
you want to install Win98SE to a separate partition and leave the existing
system intact.

In order to boot to two or more operating systems, you need a boot manager.
Otherwise, to switch from one OS to the other you'd need to first restart
with a Windows Startup floppy disk, use FDISK to change the Active
partition, then restart. A boot manager allows you to choose which OS to use
during startup.

You'll also need to rearrange your existing partitions to make room for the
new one. That requires resizing the existing, perhaps moving it/them around,
etc. The best app I know of that does both of these things is BootIt NG
(BING), www.bootitng.com. It's free for thirty days, $35 if you want to
install it and use it more than 30 days.

Questions:

1. How large is the hard drive and how much free space is there (look in My
Computer.)

2. Is there perhaps a hidden partition? There is often a backup of your
original system hidden on the hard drive. To find out if this is the case,
run FDISK in Windows from the Start.Run box. Enable Large Disk Support, then
choose option 4. What does it say your disk contains? (We are talking about
a system with only one hard drive, right?)

While it's on my mind, you should make sure you have the existing Product
Key for your installed Win98 system, in case you want to install it again
some day. Get the script from here to do that: http://billsway.com/vbspage/
(the Product Key Saver is the last one on the page.)

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
http://grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

"mrbigbry" wrote in message
...
I want to end up having my final operating system be WIN98SE. I do not
have
the WIN98SE upgrade version I have the full WIN98SE version. When I try
to
install SE on my hardrive a message occurs saying it recognizes WIN98 and
to
install the SE upgrade edition which I do not have. I would like to have
the
option upon boot up to choose which OS I want to load, ie; WIN98 or
WIN98SE.
I want to do this so if I have some problems with SE and drivers etc., I
can
still use WIN98 without interuption. My daughter needs to have computers
for
college papers and do not want the computer to be out of service. I want
to
install SE so I can install an external HD to my computer. Once I get the
bugs worked out of SE, I will then remove the WIN98 OS from my computer.
Can
someone tell me how to set this up. Thank you in advance for your help.

AH yes, I was hoping you would respond to my question Gary. I have worked
with you many times before and I trust your judgement. Now I can get more
specific as to why and what I am trying to do. In every case to date, I have
been able to successfully find drivers and or software patches for anything I
have ran/used on my WIN98 OS computer. I can even run an IPOD software
program and a 1gb USB drive "Data Traveler" using WIN98 when everyone told me
I could not, that it required WINXP for the IPOD and WIN98SE for the USB
Drive. I am now running low on disk space on my WIN98 computer (I can make
room on my portable USB drive however) and I have Purchased a 160gb external
hard drive for backing up important files and using for all my various OS and
computers. The problem is that I pretty much have confirmed if I want to use
the EXT hard drive on my WIN98 computer, I need at least a WIN98SE OS, as
there is no patch or driver out there for a WIN98OS, unless you know of one.
I consider myself a good computer programmer(but not great). People
sometimes call me the "missing link" because I can pretty much understand the
"tech" people but can also explain or teach the novice user as well. I
remember about 8 years back or so, when I had a computer with WIN3.11 and
when new software started requiring WIN95 a tech friend of mine (he has since
left town) rigged my computer so while it was still loading in DOS, a menu
with 4 or 5 options would pop up and I would have to choose between 1. WIN95
2. WIN3.11 3. more EXT memory 4.more EXP memory 5. Safe Mode 6. DOS. If
I wanted to switch, I would have to reboot my computer of course. It was
pretty slick, depending what I was running, I would hit the appropriate menu
number in DOS, and away I would go. Because of the good possibility that I
may have some "driver/hardware" problems once I put on WIN98SE (I have the
full version, not the "Upgrade version"), I wanted to have the option to go
to my "WINDOWSS" 98 OS (notice I currently have an extra "s" in the
description), so I was planning on installing 98SE as "WINDOWS" 98SE OS. If
I do have problems, I can simply chose at the DOS menu and go to a
functioning WIN98 rather than a problematic WIN98SE, so my daughter can do
her college papers etc. Once I get all the bugs worked out of WIN98SE, then
then the WIN98 would become unnecessary. I would also like this
configuration because sometimes when I have problems and I want to be in
"Safe Mode", I have a tough time getting there via holding down the "Control"
or "F5" button as its very touchy. In answering you questions, there are no
hidden partitions on my solo hard drive and yes I do have my product code for
WIN98. Based on the additional information that I have provided to you, does
it change anything you have told me. Thanks

"Gary S. Terhune" wrote:

Please bear with me. We need to know for sure just what you want to do. See
if I have it right. You now have a Windows 98 "Gold" system and you want to
upgrade to Windows 98SE. You want to do this slowly and carefully but you
don't want to deprive your daughter of the computer when she needs it. Thus
you want to install Win98SE to a separate partition and leave the existing
system intact.

In order to boot to two or more operating systems, you need a boot manager.
Otherwise, to switch from one OS to the other you'd need to first restart
with a Windows Startup floppy disk, use FDISK to change the Active
partition, then restart. A boot manager allows you to choose which OS to use
during startup.

You'll also need to rearrange your existing partitions to make room for the
new one. That requires resizing the existing, perhaps moving it/them around,
etc. The best app I know of that does both of these things is BootIt NG
(BING), www.bootitng.com. It's free for thirty days, $35 if you want to
install it and use it more than 30 days.

Questions:

1. How large is the hard drive and how much free space is there (look in My
Computer.)

2. Is there perhaps a hidden partition? There is often a backup of your
original system hidden on the hard drive. To find out if this is the case,
run FDISK in Windows from the Start.Run box. Enable Large Disk Support, then
choose option 4. What does it say your disk contains? (We are talking about
a system with only one hard drive, right?)

While it's on my mind, you should make sure you have the existing Product
Key for your installed Win98 system, in case you want to install it again
some day. Get the script from here to do that: http://billsway.com/vbspage/
(the Product Key Saver is the last one on the page.)

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
http://grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

"mrbigbry" wrote in message
...
I want to end up having my final operating system be WIN98SE. I do not
have
the WIN98SE upgrade version I have the full WIN98SE version. When I try
to
install SE on my hardrive a message occurs saying it recognizes WIN98 and
to
install the SE upgrade edition which I do not have. I would like to have
the
option upon boot up to choose which OS I want to load, ie; WIN98 or
WIN98SE.
I want to do this so if I have some problems with SE and drivers etc., I
can
still use WIN98 without interuption. My daughter needs to have computers
for
college papers and do not want the computer to be out of service. I want
to
install SE so I can install an external HD to my computer. Once I get the
bugs worked out of SE, I will then remove the WIN98 OS from my computer.
Can
someone tell me how to set this up. Thank you in advance for your help.

That method your friend used to "multi-boot" Win95/3.11, etc., won't work in
this case. I don't really want to go into the details right now, but that's
just the way it is.

What you need to do is to create enough space on the HDD to accommodate
another partition for Win98SE. You can't just install to a separate folder,
as that will take over and disappear your old Win98. In fact, with the OEM
CD you have for Win98SE, I don't think you can even do that.

So, more specifics. How big is the drive, and how much free space does it
have? 1.5 GB is sufficient for your current purposes, but that doesn't
include the amount of free space you'll need to leave behind for the old
Win98. Figure you'll need at least 2 GB free (and with that, you'll be very
constrained in your use of the two installations.) Do you have that much?
before checking, be sure to get rid of all the crap you can. TIFs, TEMP
files, etc.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
http://grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

"mrbigbry" wrote in message
...
AH yes, I was hoping you would respond to my question Gary. I have worked
with you many times before and I trust your judgement. Now I can get more
specific as to why and what I am trying to do. In every case to date, I
have
been able to successfully find drivers and or software patches for
anything I
have ran/used on my WIN98 OS computer. I can even run an IPOD software
program and a 1gb USB drive "Data Traveler" using WIN98 when everyone told
me
I could not, that it required WINXP for the IPOD and WIN98SE for the USB
Drive. I am now running low on disk space on my WIN98 computer (I can
make
room on my portable USB drive however) and I have Purchased a 160gb
external
hard drive for backing up important files and using for all my various OS
and
computers. The problem is that I pretty much have confirmed if I want to
use
the EXT hard drive on my WIN98 computer, I need at least a WIN98SE OS, as
there is no patch or driver out there for a WIN98OS, unless you know of
one.
I consider myself a good computer programmer(but not great). People
sometimes call me the "missing link" because I can pretty much understand
the
"tech" people but can also explain or teach the novice user as well. I
remember about 8 years back or so, when I had a computer with WIN3.11 and
when new software started requiring WIN95 a tech friend of mine (he has
since
left town) rigged my computer so while it was still loading in DOS, a menu
with 4 or 5 options would pop up and I would have to choose between 1.
WIN95
2. WIN3.11 3. more EXT memory 4.more EXP memory 5. Safe Mode 6. DOS.
If
I wanted to switch, I would have to reboot my computer of course. It was
pretty slick, depending what I was running, I would hit the appropriate
menu
number in DOS, and away I would go. Because of the good possibility that
I
may have some "driver/hardware" problems once I put on WIN98SE (I have the
full version, not the "Upgrade version"), I wanted to have the option to
go
to my "WINDOWSS" 98 OS (notice I currently have an extra "s" in the
description), so I was planning on installing 98SE as "WINDOWS" 98SE OS.
If
I do have problems, I can simply chose at the DOS menu and go to a
functioning WIN98 rather than a problematic WIN98SE, so my daughter can
do
her college papers etc. Once I get all the bugs worked out of WIN98SE,
then
then the WIN98 would become unnecessary. I would also like this
configuration because sometimes when I have problems and I want to be in
"Safe Mode", I have a tough time getting there via holding down the
"Control"
or "F5" button as its very touchy. In answering you questions, there are
no
hidden partitions on my solo hard drive and yes I do have my product code
for
WIN98. Based on the additional information that I have provided to you,
does
it change anything you have told me. Thanks

"Gary S. Terhune" wrote:

Please bear with me. We need to know for sure just what you want to do.
See
if I have it right. You now have a Windows 98 "Gold" system and you want
to
upgrade to Windows 98SE. You want to do this slowly and carefully but
you
don't want to deprive your daughter of the computer when she needs it.
Thus
you want to install Win98SE to a separate partition and leave the
existing
system intact.

In order to boot to two or more operating systems, you need a boot
manager.
Otherwise, to switch from one OS to the other you'd need to first
restart
with a Windows Startup floppy disk, use FDISK to change the Active
partition, then restart. A boot manager allows you to choose which OS to
use
during startup.

You'll also need to rearrange your existing partitions to make room for
the
new one. That requires resizing the existing, perhaps moving it/them
around,
etc. The best app I know of that does both of these things is BootIt NG
(BING), www.bootitng.com. It's free for thirty days, $35 if you want to
install it and use it more than 30 days.

Questions:

1. How large is the hard drive and how much free space is there (look in
My
Computer.)

2. Is there perhaps a hidden partition? There is often a backup of your
original system hidden on the hard drive. To find out if this is the
case,
run FDISK in Windows from the Start.Run box. Enable Large Disk Support,
then
choose option 4. What does it say your disk contains? (We are talking
about
a system with only one hard drive, right?)

While it's on my mind, you should make sure you have the existing
Product
Key for your installed Win98 system, in case you want to install it
again
some day. Get the script from here to do that:
http://billsway.com/vbspage/
(the Product Key Saver is the last one on the page.)

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
http://grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

"mrbigbry" wrote in message
...
I want to end up having my final operating system be WIN98SE. I do
not
have
the WIN98SE upgrade version I have the full WIN98SE version. When I
try
to
install SE on my hardrive a message occurs saying it recognizes WIN98
and
to
install the SE upgrade edition which I do not have. I would like to
have
the
option upon boot up to choose which OS I want to load, ie; WIN98 or
WIN98SE.
I want to do this so if I have some problems with SE and drivers etc.,
I
can
still use WIN98 without interuption. My daughter needs to have
computers
for
college papers and do not want the computer to be out of service. I
want
to
install SE so I can install an external HD to my computer. Once I get
the
bugs worked out of SE, I will then remove the WIN98 OS from my
computer.
Can
someone tell me how to set this up. Thank you in advance for your
help.

Hey Gary thanks for getting back with me. You're right I do not want to know
why I cannot do the old way. I think I understand what you are telling me.
My Hd is 16.069 GB. I will need to clear to leave only 14GB of space for my
current stuff, which will be no problem. I will then use FDisk(following the
inst. you gave to me earlier) to partition 2GB worth of space so that I can
install WIN98SE to that portion of the disk. Once I do that, the only way I
will be able to access these portions is through the "BING" software that you
recommended, or through a WIN98 or WIN98SE floppy disk to boot to the
appropriate OS correct? Yes you are right about the full version of WIN98SE
when loading if it detects you have WIN98 on the same portion of the hard
drive, it will not let you do it ie: it tells you to use the WIN98 upgrade
version software.

"Gary S. Terhune" wrote:

That method your friend used to "multi-boot" Win95/3.11, etc., won't work in
this case. I don't really want to go into the details right now, but that's
just the way it is.

What you need to do is to create enough space on the HDD to accommodate
another partition for Win98SE. You can't just install to a separate folder,
as that will take over and disappear your old Win98. In fact, with the OEM
CD you have for Win98SE, I don't think you can even do that.

So, more specifics. How big is the drive, and how much free space does it
have? 1.5 GB is sufficient for your current purposes, but that doesn't
include the amount of free space you'll need to leave behind for the old
Win98. Figure you'll need at least 2 GB free (and with that, you'll be very
constrained in your use of the two installations.) Do you have that much?
before checking, be sure to get rid of all the crap you can. TIFs, TEMP
files, etc.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
http://grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

"mrbigbry" wrote in message
...
AH yes, I was hoping you would respond to my question Gary. I have worked
with you many times before and I trust your judgement. Now I can get more
specific as to why and what I am trying to do. In every case to date, I
have
been able to successfully find drivers and or software patches for
anything I
have ran/used on my WIN98 OS computer. I can even run an IPOD software
program and a 1gb USB drive "Data Traveler" using WIN98 when everyone told
me
I could not, that it required WINXP for the IPOD and WIN98SE for the USB
Drive. I am now running low on disk space on my WIN98 computer (I can
make
room on my portable USB drive however) and I have Purchased a 160gb
external
hard drive for backing up important files and using for all my various OS
and
computers. The problem is that I pretty much have confirmed if I want to
use
the EXT hard drive on my WIN98 computer, I need at least a WIN98SE OS, as
there is no patch or driver out there for a WIN98OS, unless you know of
one.
I consider myself a good computer programmer(but not great). People
sometimes call me the "missing link" because I can pretty much understand
the
"tech" people but can also explain or teach the novice user as well. I
remember about 8 years back or so, when I had a computer with WIN3.11 and
when new software started requiring WIN95 a tech friend of mine (he has
since
left town) rigged my computer so while it was still loading in DOS, a menu
with 4 or 5 options would pop up and I would have to choose between 1.
WIN95
2. WIN3.11 3. more EXT memory 4.more EXP memory 5. Safe Mode 6. DOS.
If
I wanted to switch, I would have to reboot my computer of course. It was
pretty slick, depending what I was running, I would hit the appropriate
menu
number in DOS, and away I would go. Because of the good possibility that
I
may have some "driver/hardware" problems once I put on WIN98SE (I have the
full version, not the "Upgrade version"), I wanted to have the option to
go
to my "WINDOWSS" 98 OS (notice I currently have an extra "s" in the
description), so I was planning on installing 98SE as "WINDOWS" 98SE OS.
If
I do have problems, I can simply chose at the DOS menu and go to a
functioning WIN98 rather than a problematic WIN98SE, so my daughter can
do
her college papers etc. Once I get all the bugs worked out of WIN98SE,
then
then the WIN98 would become unnecessary. I would also like this
configuration because sometimes when I have problems and I want to be in
"Safe Mode", I have a tough time getting there via holding down the
"Control"
or "F5" button as its very touchy. In answering you questions, there are
no
hidden partitions on my solo hard drive and yes I do have my product code
for
WIN98. Based on the additional information that I have provided to you,
does
it change anything you have told me. Thanks

"Gary S. Terhune" wrote:

Please bear with me. We need to know for sure just what you want to do.
See
if I have it right. You now have a Windows 98 "Gold" system and you want
to
upgrade to Windows 98SE. You want to do this slowly and carefully but
you
don't want to deprive your daughter of the computer when she needs it.
Thus
you want to install Win98SE to a separate partition and leave the
existing
system intact.

In order to boot to two or more operating systems, you need a boot
manager.
Otherwise, to switch from one OS to the other you'd need to first
restart
with a Windows Startup floppy disk, use FDISK to change the Active
partition, then restart. A boot manager allows you to choose which OS to
use
during startup.

You'll also need to rearrange your existing partitions to make room for
the
new one. That requires resizing the existing, perhaps moving it/them
around,
etc. The best app I know of that does both of these things is BootIt NG
(BING), www.bootitng.com. It's free for thirty days, $35 if you want to
install it and use it more than 30 days.

Questions:

1. How large is the hard drive and how much free space is there (look in
My
Computer.)

2. Is there perhaps a hidden partition? There is often a backup of your
original system hidden on the hard drive. To find out if this is the
case,
run FDISK in Windows from the Start.Run box. Enable Large Disk Support,
then
choose option 4. What does it say your disk contains? (We are talking
about
a system with only one hard drive, right?)

While it's on my mind, you should make sure you have the existing
Product
Key for your installed Win98 system, in case you want to install it
again
some day. Get the script from here to do that:
http://billsway.com/vbspage/
(the Product Key Saver is the last one on the page.)

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
http://grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

"mrbigbry" wrote in message
...
I want to end up having my final operating system be WIN98SE. I do
not
have
the WIN98SE upgrade version I have the full WIN98SE version. When I
try
to
install SE on my hardrive a message occurs saying it recognizes WIN98
and
to
install the SE upgrade edition which I do not have. I would like to
have
the
option upon boot up to choose which OS I want to load, ie; WIN98 or
WIN98SE.
I want to do this so if I have some problems with SE and drivers etc.,
I
can
still use WIN98 without interuption. My daughter needs to have
computers
for
college papers and do not want the computer to be out of service. I
want
to
install SE so I can install an external HD to my computer. Once I get
the
bugs worked out of SE, I will then remove the WIN98 OS from my
computer.
Can
someone tell me how to set this up. Thank you in advance for your
help.

You can't use FDISK for this procedure. FDISK can only create or destroy
partitions. It can't resize them, which is what you need to do first. You
need to use BING for this job. And yes, you have it right. In order to
multi-boot, you have to have something at the beginning that does the chores
necessary to effect the switch -- to change Active Partition, primarily,
but with decent boot managers you can also pre-determine which partitions
are visible to the OS and several other options similar to the ones your DOS
routine offered (but much more sophisticated.)

If you can, free up maybe another GB. The numbers I gave you are really
minimal. This also assumes you aren't going to install any major
applications on the SE side until you've made more room for it somehow. IOW,
if you can free up 4 or 5 GB, that would be even better, but I understand
that the very reason you're doing this is to offload personal files, so I
gave you an absolute minimum when I said 2GB.

I'll come back and give you step-by-step instructions after I've done a few
more dishes, had a cuppa, etc.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
http://grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

"mrbigbry" wrote in message
...
Hey Gary thanks for getting back with me. You're right I do not want to
know
why I cannot do the old way. I think I understand what you are telling
me.
My Hd is 16.069 GB. I will need to clear to leave only 14GB of space for
my
current stuff, which will be no problem. I will then use FDisk(following
the
inst. you gave to me earlier) to partition 2GB worth of space so that I
can
install WIN98SE to that portion of the disk. Once I do that, the only way
I
will be able to access these portions is through the "BING" software that
you
recommended, or through a WIN98 or WIN98SE floppy disk to boot to the
appropriate OS correct? Yes you are right about the full version of
WIN98SE
when loading if it detects you have WIN98 on the same portion of the hard
drive, it will not let you do it ie: it tells you to use the WIN98 upgrade
version software.

"Gary S. Terhune" wrote:

That method your friend used to "multi-boot" Win95/3.11, etc., won't
work in
this case. I don't really want to go into the details right now, but
that's
just the way it is.

What you need to do is to create enough space on the HDD to accommodate
another partition for Win98SE. You can't just install to a separate
folder,
as that will take over and disappear your old Win98. In fact, with the
OEM
CD you have for Win98SE, I don't think you can even do that.

So, more specifics. How big is the drive, and how much free space does
it
have? 1.5 GB is sufficient for your current purposes, but that doesn't
include the amount of free space you'll need to leave behind for the old
Win98. Figure you'll need at least 2 GB free (and with that, you'll be
very
constrained in your use of the two installations.) Do you have that
much?
before checking, be sure to get rid of all the crap you can. TIFs, TEMP
files, etc.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
http://grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

"mrbigbry" wrote in message
...
AH yes, I was hoping you would respond to my question Gary. I have
worked
with you many times before and I trust your judgement. Now I can get
more
specific as to why and what I am trying to do. In every case to date,
I
have
been able to successfully find drivers and or software patches for
anything I
have ran/used on my WIN98 OS computer. I can even run an IPOD
software
program and a 1gb USB drive "Data Traveler" using WIN98 when everyone
told
me
I could not, that it required WINXP for the IPOD and WIN98SE for the
USB
Drive. I am now running low on disk space on my WIN98 computer (I can
make
room on my portable USB drive however) and I have Purchased a 160gb
external
hard drive for backing up important files and using for all my various
OS
and
computers. The problem is that I pretty much have confirmed if I want
to
use
the EXT hard drive on my WIN98 computer, I need at least a WIN98SE OS,
as
there is no patch or driver out there for a WIN98OS, unless you know
of
one.
I consider myself a good computer programmer(but not great). People
sometimes call me the "missing link" because I can pretty much
understand
the
"tech" people but can also explain or teach the novice user as well.
I
remember about 8 years back or so, when I had a computer with WIN3.11
and
when new software started requiring WIN95 a tech friend of mine (he
has
since
left town) rigged my computer so while it was still loading in DOS, a
menu
with 4 or 5 options would pop up and I would have to choose between 1.
WIN95
2. WIN3.11 3. more EXT memory 4.more EXP memory 5. Safe Mode 6.
DOS.
If
I wanted to switch, I would have to reboot my computer of course. It
was
pretty slick, depending what I was running, I would hit the
appropriate
menu
number in DOS, and away I would go. Because of the good possibility
that
I
may have some "driver/hardware" problems once I put on WIN98SE (I have
the
full version, not the "Upgrade version"), I wanted to have the option
to
go
to my "WINDOWSS" 98 OS (notice I currently have an extra "s" in the
description), so I was planning on installing 98SE as "WINDOWS" 98SE
OS.
If
I do have problems, I can simply chose at the DOS menu and go to a
functioning WIN98 rather than a problematic WIN98SE, so my daughter
can
do
her college papers etc. Once I get all the bugs worked out of WIN98SE,
then
then the WIN98 would become unnecessary. I would also like this
configuration because sometimes when I have problems and I want to be
in
"Safe Mode", I have a tough time getting there via holding down the
"Control"
or "F5" button as its very touchy. In answering you questions, there
are
no
hidden partitions on my solo hard drive and yes I do have my product
code
for
WIN98. Based on the additional information that I have provided to
you,
does
it change anything you have told me. Thanks

"Gary S. Terhune" wrote:

Please bear with me. We need to know for sure just what you want to
do.
See
if I have it right. You now have a Windows 98 "Gold" system and you
want
to
upgrade to Windows 98SE. You want to do this slowly and carefully
but
you
don't want to deprive your daughter of the computer when she needs
it.
Thus
you want to install Win98SE to a separate partition and leave the
existing
system intact.

In order to boot to two or more operating systems, you need a boot
manager.
Otherwise, to switch from one OS to the other you'd need to first
restart
with a Windows Startup floppy disk, use FDISK to change the Active
partition, then restart. A boot manager allows you to choose which
OS to
use
during startup.

You'll also need to rearrange your existing partitions to make room
for
the
new one. That requires resizing the existing, perhaps moving it/them
around,
etc. The best app I know of that does both of these things is BootIt
NG
(BING), www.bootitng.com. It's free for thirty days, $35 if you want
to
install it and use it more than 30 days.

Questions:

1. How large is the hard drive and how much free space is there
(look in
My
Computer.)

2. Is there perhaps a hidden partition? There is often a backup of
your
original system hidden on the hard drive. To find out if this is the
case,
run FDISK in Windows from the Start.Run box. Enable Large Disk
Support,
then
choose option 4. What does it say your disk contains? (We are
talking
about
a system with only one hard drive, right?)

While it's on my mind, you should make sure you have the existing
Product
Key for your installed Win98 system, in case you want to install it
again
some day. Get the script from here to do that:
http://billsway.com/vbspage/
(the Product Key Saver is the last one on the page.)

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
http://grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

"mrbigbry" wrote in message
...
I want to end up having my final operating system be WIN98SE. I
do
not
have
the WIN98SE upgrade version I have the full WIN98SE version. When
I
try
to
install SE on my hardrive a message occurs saying it recognizes
WIN98
and
to
install the SE upgrade edition which I do not have. I would like
to
have
the
option upon boot up to choose which OS I want to load, ie; WIN98
or
WIN98SE.
I want to do this so if I have some problems with SE and drivers
etc.,
I
can
still use WIN98 without interuption. My daughter needs to have
computers
for
college papers and do not want the computer to be out of service.
I
want
to
install SE so I can install an external HD to my computer. Once I
get
the
bugs worked out of SE, I will then remove the WIN98 OS from my
computer.
Can
someone tell me how to set this up. Thank you in advance for your
help.

Using BootIt NG (BING) to repartition an existing OS drive in order to
install a second.

Assumptions in this case are that the total available free disk space is
2GB, the existing OS is Win98 "Gold", and the new OS will be Win98SE, to be
used for data transfer over USB2 to External Drive. This configuration will
allow for little heavy work to be done on either side, and it is recommended
that you come up with another GB at least, to be split evenly between the
two partitions. That *should* allow sufficient space for temp stuff, page
file, etc. But be very conservative in your usage, clean out Recycle Bin,
temp files, etc., religiously. Max space really useful to the second OS
until you get to the point of converting to using it for your main system is
2GB.

1. Download BING from http://bootitng.com/bootitng.html. Unzip the files to
a new folder, then run bootitng.exe. You'll need a fresh floppy for this.
Once the floppy is created, restart the machine.

2. Presuming that your boot sequence is "normal", the machine will boot to
the floppy. When prompted to install BING, click Cancel. This will drop you
into Maintenance Mode where you'll choose Partition Work.

3. Look at the middle pane. Do you see your existing Windows partition? Does
it occupy the entire drive or is there another one that was hidden from
Windows? One that might contain a backup installation, put there by the
builder? If so, then you need to consider whether you want to keep that
backup or reclaim that space. Note that there may be unused space at the
beginning or end of the drive. That's not unusual.

4. After resolving any questions that arise from Step 3., click on the
existing Windows partition and then on the Resize button. Wait for the error
check to finish, then look for the figure that tells you how small you can
make it. Add 1024 MB to that figure and enter that number. Then click OK or
whatever the prompt is to begin.

5. When the resize is finished, click on the Free Space and then Create
button. Make the size the most possible, less 8MB. (You'll want to install
BING to that remaining 8MB.) You want either 11h or 12h structure, whichever
is offered. Both are FAT32.

6. Close out of Partition Work and restart the system. Leave the floppy in.
When you get the prompt to install BING, do so. Say no to more than 4
primaries, accept its suggestion to install BING to a separate partition,
and allow BING to choose that partition. When it finishes, do as prompted
and restart the machine, this time without the floppy inserted. When BING
comes up, choose Maintenance.

7. Click on Boot Menu. One item will already exist. Leave that one alone.
Click Add, name it Windows 98 SE, then add the new partition as the boot
partition (just a bit below where you name it there's a drop-down menu
listing the partitions. It is blank to start with.) Now put a check in
Floppy Drive and click OK.

8. Put in your Windows Startup floppy disk, then click Resume (NOT Restart!)
Select the Windows 98 SE item and then click Boot. The Windows Startup disk
should crank up and from there it's a normal install. Windows Setup
overrides and deactivates BING so you don't have to worry about that getting
in the way.

When the installation is finished, and you want your boot manager back so
you can get to the other OS, put the BING floppy back in and restart. You'll
be prompted to reactivate BING. Note that it starts restricting what you can
do with it after 30 days if you don't purchase a license.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
http://grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

"Gary S. Terhune" wrote in message
...
You can't use FDISK for this procedure. FDISK can only create or destroy
partitions. It can't resize them, which is what you need to do first. You
need to use BING for this job. And yes, you have it right. In order to
multi-boot, you have to have something at the beginning that does the
chores
necessary to effect the switch -- to change Active Partition, primarily,
but with decent boot managers you can also pre-determine which partitions
are visible to the OS and several other options similar to the ones your
DOS
routine offered (but much more sophisticated.)

If you can, free up maybe another GB. The numbers I gave you are really
minimal. This also assumes you aren't going to install any major
applications on the SE side until you've made more room for it somehow.
IOW,
if you can free up 4 or 5 GB, that would be even better, but I understand
that the very reason you're doing this is to offload personal files, so I
gave you an absolute minimum when I said 2GB.

I'll come back and give you step-by-step instructions after I've done a
few
more dishes, had a cuppa, etc.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
http://grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

"mrbigbry" wrote in message
...
Hey Gary thanks for getting back with me. You're right I do not want to
know
why I cannot do the old way. I think I understand what you are telling
me.
My Hd is 16.069 GB. I will need to clear to leave only 14GB of space
for
my
current stuff, which will be no problem. I will then use
FDisk(following
the
inst. you gave to me earlier) to partition 2GB worth of space so that I
can
install WIN98SE to that portion of the disk. Once I do that, the only
way
I
will be able to access these portions is through the "BING" software
that
you
recommended, or through a WIN98 or WIN98SE floppy disk to boot to the
appropriate OS correct? Yes you are right about the full version of
WIN98SE
when loading if it detects you have WIN98 on the same portion of the
hard
drive, it will not let you do it ie: it tells you to use the WIN98
upgrade
version software.

"Gary S. Terhune" wrote:

That method your friend used to "multi-boot" Win95/3.11, etc., won't
work in
this case. I don't really want to go into the details right now, but
that's
just the way it is.

What you need to do is to create enough space on the HDD to
accommodate
another partition for Win98SE. You can't just install to a separate
folder,
as that will take over and disappear your old Win98. In fact, with the
OEM
CD you have for Win98SE, I don't think you can even do that.

So, more specifics. How big is the drive, and how much free space does
it
have? 1.5 GB is sufficient for your current purposes, but that doesn't
include the amount of free space you'll need to leave behind for the
old
Win98. Figure you'll need at least 2 GB free (and with that, you'll be
very
constrained in your use of the two installations.) Do you have that
much?
before checking, be sure to get rid of all the crap you can. TIFs,
TEMP
files, etc.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
http://grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

"mrbigbry" wrote in message
...
AH yes, I was hoping you would respond to my question Gary. I have
worked
with you many times before and I trust your judgement. Now I can
get
more
specific as to why and what I am trying to do. In every case to
date,
I
have
been able to successfully find drivers and or software patches for
anything I
have ran/used on my WIN98 OS computer. I can even run an IPOD
software
program and a 1gb USB drive "Data Traveler" using WIN98 when
everyone
told
me
I could not, that it required WINXP for the IPOD and WIN98SE for the
USB
Drive. I am now running low on disk space on my WIN98 computer (I
can
make
room on my portable USB drive however) and I have Purchased a 160gb
external
hard drive for backing up important files and using for all my
various
OS
and
computers. The problem is that I pretty much have confirmed if I
want
to
use
the EXT hard drive on my WIN98 computer, I need at least a WIN98SE
OS,
as
there is no patch or driver out there for a WIN98OS, unless you know
of
one.
I consider myself a good computer programmer(but not great). People
sometimes call me the "missing link" because I can pretty much
understand
the
"tech" people but can also explain or teach the novice user as well.
I
remember about 8 years back or so, when I had a computer with
WIN3.11
and
when new software started requiring WIN95 a tech friend of mine (he
has
since
left town) rigged my computer so while it was still loading in DOS,
a
menu
with 4 or 5 options would pop up and I would have to choose between
1.
WIN95
2. WIN3.11 3. more EXT memory 4.more EXP memory 5. Safe Mode 6.
DOS.
If
I wanted to switch, I would have to reboot my computer of course.
It
was
pretty slick, depending what I was running, I would hit the
appropriate
menu
number in DOS, and away I would go. Because of the good possibility
that
I
may have some "driver/hardware" problems once I put on WIN98SE (I
have
the
full version, not the "Upgrade version"), I wanted to have the
option
to
go
to my "WINDOWSS" 98 OS (notice I currently have an extra "s" in the
description), so I was planning on installing 98SE as "WINDOWS" 98SE
OS.
If
I do have problems, I can simply chose at the DOS menu and go to a
functioning WIN98 rather than a problematic WIN98SE, so my daughter
can
do
her college papers etc. Once I get all the bugs worked out of
WIN98SE,
then
then the WIN98 would become unnecessary. I would also like this
configuration because sometimes when I have problems and I want to
be
in
"Safe Mode", I have a tough time getting there via holding down the
"Control"
or "F5" button as its very touchy. In answering you questions, there
are
no
hidden partitions on my solo hard drive and yes I do have my product
code
for
WIN98. Based on the additional information that I have provided to
you,
does
it change anything you have told me. Thanks

"Gary S. Terhune" wrote:

Please bear with me. We need to know for sure just what you want
to
do.
See
if I have it right. You now have a Windows 98 "Gold" system and
you
want
to
upgrade to Windows 98SE. You want to do this slowly and carefully
but
you
don't want to deprive your daughter of the computer when she needs
it.
Thus
you want to install Win98SE to a separate partition and leave the
existing
system intact.

In order to boot to two or more operating systems, you need a boot
manager.
Otherwise, to switch from one OS to the other you'd need to first
restart
with a Windows Startup floppy disk, use FDISK to change the Active
partition, then restart. A boot manager allows you to choose which
OS to
use
during startup.

You'll also need to rearrange your existing partitions to make
room
for
the
new one. That requires resizing the existing, perhaps moving
it/them
around,
etc. The best app I know of that does both of these things is
BootIt
NG
(BING), www.bootitng.com. It's free for thirty days, $35 if you
want
to
install it and use it more than 30 days.

Questions:

1. How large is the hard drive and how much free space is there
(look in
My
Computer.)

2. Is there perhaps a hidden partition? There is often a backup of
your
original system hidden on the hard drive. To find out if this is
the
case,
run FDISK in Windows from the Start.Run box. Enable Large Disk
Support,
then
choose option 4. What does it say your disk contains? (We are
talking
about
a system with only one hard drive, right?)

While it's on my mind, you should make sure you have the existing
Product
Key for your installed Win98 system, in case you want to install
it
again
some day. Get the script from here to do that:
http://billsway.com/vbspage/
(the Product Key Saver is the last one on the page.)

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
http://grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

"mrbigbry" wrote in message
...
I want to end up having my final operating system be WIN98SE. I
do
not
have
the WIN98SE upgrade version I have the full WIN98SE version.
When
I
try
to
install SE on my hardrive a message occurs saying it recognizes
WIN98
and
to
install the SE upgrade edition which I do not have. I would
like
to
have
the
option upon boot up to choose which OS I want to load, ie; WIN98
or
WIN98SE.
I want to do this so if I have some problems with SE and drivers
etc.,
I
can
still use WIN98 without interuption. My daughter needs to have
computers
for
college papers and do not want the computer to be out of
service.
I
want
to
install SE so I can install an external HD to my computer. Once
I
get
the
bugs worked out of SE, I will then remove the WIN98 OS from my
computer.
Can
someone tell me how to set this up. Thank you in advance for
your
help.