Win'98SE & IE 6

Well I know that Firefox is not a cure-all panacea but I certainly like that
it will continue to be updated while Microsoft Windows 98 Second Edition
only has critical updates until 30 June 2006 which sometimes has IE
vulnerabilities but they are rated serious to skip 98SE and as Gary Terhune
has pointed out that Microsoft is somewhat stingy in this area because they
even now have a serious category that does not include 98, 98SE or ME
because these operating systems are dated although this user as a dual-boot
of 98SE and XP Pro. finds that he needs both operating systems and would
like both operating systems still fully supported. Without a user of 98SE
getting these updates then they are more vulnerable then ever unless they
use an alternative such as Mozilla Firefox Browser. As a retail worker, I
still get questions to this day from customers about how they can go about
purchasing 98SE. I called volume licensing today and discovered that I can
only get additional licenses for XP Pro./XP Home and Office XP (which
fortunately supports 98SE even though it says XP in title) and Office 2003.
Now come on -- a company with Microsoft's resources should be able to
support a dated code more efficiently although I am thankful that they at
least have critical updates offered.

"Sandi - Microsoft MVP" wrote in message
...
Its scary to see Firefox offered as if its some cure-all panacea.

--
Hyperlinks are used to ensure advice remains current
Visit the Internet Explorer Online Community:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/...y/default.mspx
_______________________________________
Sandi - Microsoft MVP since 1999 (IE/OE)
http://inetexplorer.mvps.org/


"Gary S. Terhune" wrote in message
...
You don't want ActiveX in IE? Turn it off in Security Settings! Wanting
to
be
protected from ActiveX is no reason to use Firefox. There may be others,
but
that ain't one of them.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User

"Dan" wrote in message
...
With support as in the case of updates already becoming a rare thing
from
Microsoft on 98SE, I would have the latest version of IE. You may want
to
consider Mozilla Firefox too since it does not have Active X
vulnerabilities
of IE but you still must be sure to keep IE up to date.

"Eugene Fridman" wrote in message
...
I'm thinking of upgrading Internet Explorer 5.50 to 6 SP1 on my Win
'98SE
system.

Are there any reasons not to?

Please share your experience.

TIA, Eugene

Actually, there's little reason to go beyond IE 5.0 on
a Win98 PC if you're using Firefox. The later versions
of IE are both more exploitible due to more "features"
Microsoft added in, as well as being much bigger
resource hogs. For Win98 I recommend keeping a
minimal version of IE 5 around with its few security
patches installed for use only for Microsoft updates
and the odd, poorly written financial site. There are
some dumbass programs like QuickBooks that
won't work without the latest version of IE being
installed, but that's just due to marketing agreements
with MS.

-BC

I can see that you and Bill in Co. would get along great since he uses an
older version of IE. I am very content with my dual-boot system of 98SE and
XP Pro. that has the 98SE fully up to date with IE 6 sp1 and the latest
DirectX 9.0c even though Microsoft is not certifying graphic and video card
drivers for 98SE anymore and computer hardware manufacturers are slowly
moving away from supporting 98SE through not releasing any newer video or
sound drivers. I know this is the case with Creative and I am concerned
that ATI will soon follow suit if they have not decided to already.

"BC" wrote in message
oups.com...
Actually, there's little reason to go beyond IE 5.0 on
a Win98 PC if you're using Firefox. The later versions
of IE are both more exploitible due to more "features"
Microsoft added in, as well as being much bigger
resource hogs. For Win98 I recommend keeping a
minimal version of IE 5 around with its few security
patches installed for use only for Microsoft updates
and the odd, poorly written financial site. There are
some dumbass programs like QuickBooks that
won't work without the latest version of IE being
installed, but that's just due to marketing agreements
with MS.

-BC

Indeed!

--=20
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
=20
"Sandi - Microsoft MVP" wrote in message =
...
Its scary to see Firefox offered as if its some cure-all panacea.
=20
--=20
Hyperlinks are used to ensure advice remains current
Visit the Internet Explorer Online Community:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/...y/default.mspx
_______________________________________
Sandi - Microsoft MVP since 1999 (IE/OE)
http://inetexplorer.mvps.org/
=20
=20
"Gary S. Terhune" wrote in message=20
...
You don't want ActiveX in IE? Turn it off in Security Settings! =
Wanting to=20
be
protected from ActiveX is no reason to use Firefox. There may be =
others,=20
but
that ain't one of them.

--=20
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User

"Dan" wrote in message
...
With support as in the case of updates already becoming a rare =
thing from
Microsoft on 98SE, I would have the latest version of IE. You may =
want=20
to
consider Mozilla Firefox too since it does not have Active X=20
vulnerabilities
of IE but you still must be sure to keep IE up to date.

"Eugene Fridman" wrote in message
...
I'm thinking of upgrading Internet Explorer 5.50 to 6 SP1 on my =
Win=20
'98SE
system.

Are there any reasons not to?

Please share your experience.

TIA, Eugene




=20

Dan,

You can use Firefox until the cows come home, keep it up to date, and =
never encounter a security problem due to a Firefox vulnerability =
(though that last is a doubtful prospect)---it will not prevent =
vulnerabilities in IE from causing problems. IE *still* has to be kept =
up to date--it's not just a browser, it's an integral part of the =
system. As Win9x systems get left out of the mix, any vulnerabilities =
that are subsequently discovered will not be patched, and the machine =
will be left open to intrusion. I predict a spate of attacks on Win9x =
systems for just that very reason. Win9x systems will come to be used =
only offline, and only for those apps that haven't migrated to XP or for =
other limited purposes for which they are well-suited. But they won't be =
modern apps, and they won't be online apps (except where true geeks are =
involved and able to build in security in ways that do not require being =
up to date or having patches made available.)

--=20
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
=20
"Dan" wrote in message =
...
Well I know that Firefox is not a cure-all panacea but I certainly =
like that
it will continue to be updated while Microsoft Windows 98 Second =
Edition
only has critical updates until 30 June 2006 which sometimes has IE
vulnerabilities but they are rated serious to skip 98SE and as Gary =
Terhune
has pointed out that Microsoft is somewhat stingy in this area because =
they
even now have a serious category that does not include 98, 98SE or ME
because these operating systems are dated although this user as a =
dual-boot
of 98SE and XP Pro. finds that he needs both operating systems and =
would
like both operating systems still fully supported. Without a user of =
98SE
getting these updates then they are more vulnerable then ever unless =
they
use an alternative such as Mozilla Firefox Browser. As a retail =
worker, I
still get questions to this day from customers about how they can go =
about
purchasing 98SE. I called volume licensing today and discovered that =
I can
only get additional licenses for XP Pro./XP Home and Office XP (which
fortunately supports 98SE even though it says XP in title) and Office =
2003.
Now come on -- a company with Microsoft's resources should be able to
support a dated code more efficiently although I am thankful that they =
at
least have critical updates offered.

I can't find a single statement in your post that is true, except the =
one where you "recommend". I suppose that one is true, even if its =
misguided and dangerous to the well-being of anyone who follows your =
advice.

--=20
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
=20
"BC" wrote in message =
oups.com...
Actually, there's little reason to go beyond IE 5.0 on
a Win98 PC if you're using Firefox. The later versions
of IE are both more exploitible due to more "features"
Microsoft added in, as well as being much bigger
resource hogs. For Win98 I recommend keeping a
minimal version of IE 5 around with its few security
patches installed for use only for Microsoft updates
and the odd, poorly written financial site. There are
some dumbass programs like QuickBooks that
won't work without the latest version of IE being
installed, but that's just due to marketing agreements=20
with MS.
=20
-BC

BC wrote:

Actually, there's little reason to go beyond IE 5.0 on
a Win98 PC if you're using Firefox. remainder snipped

That is soooo *not* true. Keep IE updated, certainly read what the
updates are, but security updates, which include new versions of the
browser, need to be kept up with. Even if you only open IE once a week
to check for MS updates, keep it updated.

If you check at the other browser forums, etc., they all will
emphatically tell you exactly that; keep IE updated, and do the same for
their browser.

You certainly have the right to not update your browser/system, but
please don't pass around advice that is so clearly nonsensical.

MM

What's not true, pray tell? Be warned, though,
that I know an awful lot....

-BC

This is patently false and misleading advice IMO. IE is an integral part of
Windows OS and all critical updates should be installed on your machine,
whether you use IE as your browser or not.
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE)

BC wrote:
Actually, there's little reason to go beyond IE 5.0 on
a Win98 PC if you're using Firefox. The later versions
of IE are both more exploitible due to more "features"
Microsoft added in, as well as being much bigger
resource hogs. For Win98 I recommend keeping a
minimal version of IE 5 around with its few security
patches installed for use only for Microsoft updates
and the odd, poorly written financial site. There are
some dumbass programs like QuickBooks that
won't work without the latest version of IE being
installed, but that's just due to marketing agreements
with MS.

-BC

DESPITE all that Terhune has said to you, BC, (viz: "I can't find a
single statement in your post that is true...") I would be GREATLY
SHOCKED to discover IE6/OE6 SP1, fully updated, WERE NOT a great
resource HOG...!...

Low resources can cause out of memory errors. Perhaps put Resource Meter
in your Tray, to see how low they get. A reboot would clear it, but,
obviously, it's better to cleanup your Startup Group. Do you have
"Resource Meter" in START... System Tools? If not, get it from "START,
Settings, Control Panel, Add/Remove Programs, Windows Setup tab, D-Clk
System Tools, check System Resource Meter, OK, Apply, OK". May as well
take "System Monitor", too.

Also, unrelated to resources, the Clipboard can grab up unlimited RAM,
as you do a Cut/Paste. Then, free it, simply by Copying something small
to it, even a single character. The clipboard viewer is
"C:\WINDOWS\CLIPBRD.EXE". You may R-Drag a copy of it from your START
menu at System Tools into the Quick Launch bar. If you can't find it
anywhere, then you need to install it from "Control Panel, Add/Remove
Programs, Windows Setup, System Tools".

For investigative purposes...

(1) WinTop will show as many tasks running as "START, Run, MSInfo32,
Software Environment, Running Tasks", which is twice as many as
Ctrl-Alt-Del. Microsoft's WinTop works in Win98, though written for
Win95. It shows individual CPU & RAM usage figures & updates it's
display every 2 seconds. Get WinTop from
http://www.microsoft.com/windows95/d.../w95kerneltoy/
Download it into a folder of it's own. It's a single executable called
"W95KRNLTOYS.EXE". When you click it, it will unzip and reveal many
applications. All of them are a danger to Win98, except WinTop; delete
them. You will be left with:

W95KRNLTOYS.EXE
WINTOP.INF
WINTOP.TXT
WINTOP.VXD
WINTOP.EXE

You R-Clk WINTOP.INF & select "Install". Click OK to the requestor
stating that a disk is required. Another requestor will appear & allow
you to locate the folder that has the files listed above. WinTop.exe
will be copied to C:\Windows. You may go there, R-Clk it, point to "Send
To" & create a shortcut on the Desktop. Click it to execute. Otherwise,
"START, Run, WinTop".

YIKES, what a RAM hog Explorer is-- & NetZero too! They are eating this
machine alive!

Explorer: 18 threads.
Code Data
Allocated: 15,624K 7,932K
In memory: 5,888K 6,688K
In use 3,522K 3,552K

NetZero: 37 threads.
Code Data
Allocated: 7,624K 16,348K
In memory: 3,272K 9,252K
In use 2,488K 8,252K

NetZero: 3 more threads (icon in tray).
Code Data
Allocated: 3,248K 4,012K
In memory: 876K 1,164K
In use 440K 696K

(2) Do you have "System Monitor" in START... System Tools? If not, get
it from "START, Settings, Control Panel, Add/Remove Programs, Windows
Setup tab, D-Clk System Tools, check System Monitor, OK, Apply, OK". May
as well take "Resource Meter", too. Now, go through the menus and at
least have it display

(a) Swap file in use.
(b) Swap file size.
(c) Swappable memory.
(d) Unused physical memory.
(e) Allocated memory.
(f) Disk cache size.
(g) Locked memory
(h) Other memory
(i) Kernel Processor Usage
(j) Kernel Threads

Hopefully, by the time you have it set up and commence to asking
questions, someone will be around who can answer them.


--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
should things get worse after this,
PCR

"BC" wrote in message
oups.com...
| Actually, there's little reason to go beyond IE 5.0 on
| a Win98 PC if you're using Firefox. The later versions
| of IE are both more exploitible due to more "features"
| Microsoft added in, as well as being much bigger
| resource hogs. For Win98 I recommend keeping a
| minimal version of IE 5 around with its few security
| patches installed for use only for Microsoft updates
| and the odd, poorly written financial site. There are
| some dumbass programs like QuickBooks that
| won't work without the latest version of IE being
| installed, but that's just due to marketing agreements
| with MS.
|
| -BC
|