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Ping: Gary Terhune W98SE online security



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 29th 04, 01:51 PM
ms
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ping: Gary Terhune W98SE online security

Home user. Since original install, I only installed 5-6 MS patches, never used OE,
seldom used IE 5 (default in W98SE). I always used Netscape with normally
Javascript, images and cookies disabled. I uninstalled OE and never installed
Word or Office. I do a cold boot each day. Since MS changed policy, there have
been no patches for the W98SE/IE 5.01/5.5 combination.

DUN, online for about 8 years, don't (AFAIK) go to "risky" websites. I use
antivirus, adware scanners, they never show much. I use a munged address. *And* I
don't use a firewall.

I keep reading about hackers using a home computer as a spam server. If someone
did that with mine, seems my hard drive activity light would come on, it doesn't.

Question: Haven't had online problems so far. Not using a firewall, am I at
serious risk?

TIA
  #2  
Old December 29th 04, 05:38 PM
ms
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

ms wrote:
Home user. Since original install, I only installed 5-6 MS patches,
never used OE, seldom used IE 5 (default in W98SE). I always used
Netscape with normally Javascript, images and cookies disabled. I
uninstalled OE and never installed Word or Office. I do a cold boot each
day. Since MS changed policy, there have been no patches for the
W98SE/IE 5.01/5.5 combination.

DUN, online for about 8 years, don't (AFAIK) go to "risky" websites. I
use antivirus, adware scanners, they never show much. I use a munged
address. *And* I don't use a firewall.

I keep reading about hackers using a home computer as a spam server. If
someone did that with mine, seems my hard drive activity light would
come on, it doesn't.

Question: Haven't had online problems so far. Not using a firewall, am I
at serious risk?

TIA

Forgot to add: I have been using Firefox and Firebird before that, after Netscape,
all of them disabled as noted above, all fairly safe browsers.
  #3  
Old December 29th 04, 08:30 PM
Gary S. Terhune
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Why do you think the hard drive would engage just to broadcast a few =
puny bytes? Can all be done from memory.

--=20
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
=20
"ms" wrote in message =
...
Home user. Since original install, I only installed 5-6 MS patches, =

never used OE,=20
seldom used IE 5 (default in W98SE). I always used Netscape with =

normally=20
Javascript, images and cookies disabled. I uninstalled OE and never =

installed=20
Word or Office. I do a cold boot each day. Since MS changed policy, =

there have=20
been no patches for the W98SE/IE 5.01/5.5 combination.


In your place, I would want to update IE to the latest. I would want all =
Critical Updates installed.

I'm also curious as to what you use for email client--if it renders HTML =
emails, that is another vulnerable spot. You may not be visiting risky =
sites, but risky sites may very well be visiting you.

You seem to think *only* MS products are at serious risk. Why? Because =
MS is the only one that ever announces such issues and distributes =
patches? That's fallacious logic, as I've explained before.

=20
DUN, online for about 8 years, don't (AFAIK) go to "risky" websites. I =

use=20
antivirus, adware scanners, they never show much. I use a munged =

address. *And* I=20
don't use a firewall.


In your place, I would want a firewall

=20
I keep reading about hackers using a home computer as a spam server. =

If someone=20
did that with mine, seems my hard drive activity light would come on, =

it doesn't.

Why do you think the hard drive would engage just to broadcast a few =
puny bytes? Can all be done from memory.
=20
Question: Haven't had online problems so far.=20


Not sure what you mean by that. How do you know? What, for you, =
constitutes an "online problem"?

Not using a firewall, am I at serious risk?
=20
TIA


The best answer I can give is a qualified, "Yes--you are at serious =
risk." Qualified because you are also mitigating that risk substantially =
with your habits.

--=20
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User

  #4  
Old December 29th 04, 09:07 PM
Dan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I would update fully through Windows Update to the latest components.
You are more at risk if you have a broadband connection (DSL/Cable) and
no firewall then a narrowband (dial-up) connection and no firewall. I
would also use anti-spyware + anti-adware applications such as Adaware SE
and Spybot -- Search and Destroy.

"ms" wrote in message
...
ms wrote:
Home user. Since original install, I only installed 5-6 MS patches,
never used OE, seldom used IE 5 (default in W98SE). I always used
Netscape with normally Javascript, images and cookies disabled. I
uninstalled OE and never installed Word or Office. I do a cold boot

each
day. Since MS changed policy, there have been no patches for the
W98SE/IE 5.01/5.5 combination.

DUN, online for about 8 years, don't (AFAIK) go to "risky" websites.

I
use antivirus, adware scanners, they never show much. I use a munged
address. *And* I don't use a firewall.

I keep reading about hackers using a home computer as a spam server.

If
someone did that with mine, seems my hard drive activity light would
come on, it doesn't.

Question: Haven't had online problems so far. Not using a firewall,

am I
at serious risk?

TIA

Forgot to add: I have been using Firefox and Firebird before that,

after Netscape,
all of them disabled as noted above, all fairly safe browsers.


  #5  
Old December 30th 04, 03:42 AM
Jeff Richards
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Unfortunately, you are pretty much at the same risk whether using dial-up or
broadband. Hackers aren't too concerned about the connection speed of a
machine they take over. A typical machine on dial up will be probed within a
few minutes of logging on, especially if you use a popular ISP.

I would strongly recommend a good firewall and installing all Windows
updates.
--
Jeff Richards
MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
"ms" wrote in message ...
Home user. Since original install, I only installed 5-6 MS patches, never
used OE, seldom used IE 5 (default in W98SE). I always used Netscape with
normally Javascript, images and cookies disabled. I uninstalled OE and
never installed Word or Office. I do a cold boot each day. Since MS
changed policy, there have been no patches for the W98SE/IE 5.01/5.5
combination.

DUN, online for about 8 years, don't (AFAIK) go to "risky" websites. I use
antivirus, adware scanners, they never show much. I use a munged address.
*And* I don't use a firewall.

I keep reading about hackers using a home computer as a spam server. If
someone did that with mine, seems my hard drive activity light would come
on, it doesn't.

Question: Haven't had online problems so far. Not using a firewall, am I
at serious risk?

TIA



  #6  
Old December 30th 04, 08:53 AM
Dan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Please clear this up for me I thought dial-up users were more safe
because they have a different ip address each time they log on as opposed
to a static ip address for broadband users.

"Jeff Richards" wrote in message
...
Unfortunately, you are pretty much at the same risk whether using

dial-up or
broadband. Hackers aren't too concerned about the connection speed of a
machine they take over. A typical machine on dial up will be probed

within a
few minutes of logging on, especially if you use a popular ISP.

I would strongly recommend a good firewall and installing all Windows
updates.
--
Jeff Richards
MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
"ms" wrote in message

...
Home user. Since original install, I only installed 5-6 MS patches,

never
used OE, seldom used IE 5 (default in W98SE). I always used Netscape

with
normally Javascript, images and cookies disabled. I uninstalled OE

and
never installed Word or Office. I do a cold boot each day. Since MS
changed policy, there have been no patches for the W98SE/IE 5.01/5.5
combination.

DUN, online for about 8 years, don't (AFAIK) go to "risky" websites.

I use
antivirus, adware scanners, they never show much. I use a munged

address.
*And* I don't use a firewall.

I keep reading about hackers using a home computer as a spam server.

If
someone did that with mine, seems my hard drive activity light would

come
on, it doesn't.

Question: Haven't had online problems so far. Not using a firewall,

am I
at serious risk?

TIA




  #7  
Old December 30th 04, 09:22 AM
Gary S. Terhune
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

This is simply no longer the case. Intrusion techniques have gotten much faster.
Intrusion programs have become more widely seeded throughout the internet
wherever unprotected systems have become infected. Dial-up networks have become
much more centralized. Altogether, static vs. dynamic IP addressing is no longer
a huge issue for hackers.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User

"Dan" wrote in message
...
Please clear this up for me I thought dial-up users were more safe
because they have a different ip address each time they log on as opposed
to a static ip address for broadband users.

"Jeff Richards" wrote in message
...
Unfortunately, you are pretty much at the same risk whether using

dial-up or
broadband. Hackers aren't too concerned about the connection speed of a
machine they take over. A typical machine on dial up will be probed

within a
few minutes of logging on, especially if you use a popular ISP.

I would strongly recommend a good firewall and installing all Windows
updates.
--
Jeff Richards
MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
"ms" wrote in message

...
Home user. Since original install, I only installed 5-6 MS patches,

never
used OE, seldom used IE 5 (default in W98SE). I always used Netscape

with
normally Javascript, images and cookies disabled. I uninstalled OE

and
never installed Word or Office. I do a cold boot each day. Since MS
changed policy, there have been no patches for the W98SE/IE 5.01/5.5
combination.

DUN, online for about 8 years, don't (AFAIK) go to "risky" websites.

I use
antivirus, adware scanners, they never show much. I use a munged

address.
*And* I don't use a firewall.

I keep reading about hackers using a home computer as a spam server.

If
someone did that with mine, seems my hard drive activity light would

come
on, it doesn't.

Question: Haven't had online problems so far. Not using a firewall,

am I
at serious risk?

TIA





  #8  
Old December 30th 04, 02:08 PM
ms
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Gary S. Terhune wrote:
Why do you think the hard drive would engage just to broadcast a few puny bytes? Can all be done from memory.

Thanks, Gary, very informative. To answer your question, Thunderbird is my mail
client. I will get into firewalls.

BTW, your posts are set some way (as seen in Thunderbird) so in my reply, they
clip most of the original post automatically. Never saw that before. How do you do
it?

The only point you mentioned that I would differ is one I've seen many times
before- install all the patches.

Years ago, I did install:
--------
11/2/04
Windows 98 Q245729 Update en
4.10.0.2222
Windows 98 Q249973 Update en
4.10.0.2222
Windows 98 Q823559 Update en
4.10.0.2222
Windows 98 Second Edition en
4,10,2222,0
Windows 98 Second Edition Q238453 Update en
4.10.0.2222
Windows 98 Second Edition Q242975 Update en
4.10.0.2222
Windows 98 Second Edition Q259728 Update en
4.10.0.2222
Windows 98 TELNET Update en
4.10.0.2222
Windows 98 Year 2000 Update en
4,10,0,2000
Windows Script version 5.1

I did these because at the time they were considered mandatory for security.

I didn't do any more because my machine appears to work fine and:
1. Fred Langa and Scott Finnie advised many times that any patch has some risks,
some that MS said were mandatory are not, some are definitely buggy. Only install
if you recognize the risks.
2. Many stories online of patches causing problems on some systems.
3. People that use IE/OE/Word do have to keep patched as they are popular targets.
I don't use them for that reason.
4. My old P166 continues to work OK (again, AFAIK). If it's not broke (appears so,
anyway) don't fix it.

To install all the patches is a serious risk of crashes, possible reinstall. For
me, that's not easy to fix.

Comment?
  #9  
Old December 30th 04, 08:41 PM
Gary S. Terhune
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I have no idea why your Thunderbird is clipping automatically. I sometimes use
MIME Quoted Printable encoding, but I doubt that's it.

As for the rest, I can only suggest that you install *all* security-related
patches that are offered at Windows Update. You *do* have Internet Explorer
installed, and you *must* keep it up to date if you want to be safe. Doesn't
matter whether you use it to browse or not. It is an integral part of Windows.
When you update/upgrade IE, you are updating Windows. The incidence of problems
relating to updates is relatively low, or in some cases, the "bug" is a
necessary trade-off for security. But of course, you only hear about the bugs,
not about the millions of machines that have no problems with the patches. With
regard to Windows 9x, these bugs have been worked out long ago. You are mistaken
and or misguided when you say that, "To install all the patches is a serious
risk of crashes, possible reinstall. For me, that's not easy to fix." The risk
is only just significant. It's there, yes, but it's not a "serious" risk,
certainly not compared to the risk you expose yourself to by *not* installing
the patches. And I'm sorry, but if your system and backup habits are such that
having to reinstall Windows or otherwise recover from a glitch is a disastrous
possibility, then you're already skating on thin ice. I'd be looking to remedy
*that* situation, too.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User

"ms" wrote in message ...
Gary S. Terhune wrote:
Why do you think the hard drive would engage just to broadcast a few puny

bytes? Can all be done from memory.

Thanks, Gary, very informative. To answer your question, Thunderbird is my

mail
client. I will get into firewalls.

BTW, your posts are set some way (as seen in Thunderbird) so in my reply, they
clip most of the original post automatically. Never saw that before. How do

you do
it?

The only point you mentioned that I would differ is one I've seen many times
before- install all the patches.

Years ago, I did install:
--------
11/2/04
Windows 98 Q245729 Update en
4.10.0.2222
Windows 98 Q249973 Update en
4.10.0.2222
Windows 98 Q823559 Update en
4.10.0.2222
Windows 98 Second Edition en
4,10,2222,0
Windows 98 Second Edition Q238453 Update en
4.10.0.2222
Windows 98 Second Edition Q242975 Update en
4.10.0.2222
Windows 98 Second Edition Q259728 Update en
4.10.0.2222
Windows 98 TELNET Update en
4.10.0.2222
Windows 98 Year 2000 Update en
4,10,0,2000
Windows Script version 5.1

I did these because at the time they were considered mandatory for security.

I didn't do any more because my machine appears to work fine and:
1. Fred Langa and Scott Finnie advised many times that any patch has some

risks,
some that MS said were mandatory are not, some are definitely buggy. Only

install
if you recognize the risks.
2. Many stories online of patches causing problems on some systems.
3. People that use IE/OE/Word do have to keep patched as they are popular

targets.
I don't use them for that reason.
4. My old P166 continues to work OK (again, AFAIK). If it's not broke (appears

so,
anyway) don't fix it.

To install all the patches is a serious risk of crashes, possible reinstall.

For
me, that's not easy to fix.

Comment?


  #10  
Old December 31st 04, 01:49 AM
ms
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Gary S. Terhune wrote:
I have no idea why your Thunderbird is clipping automatically. I sometimes use
MIME Quoted Printable encoding, but I doubt that's it.

As for the rest, I can only suggest that you install *all* security-related
patches that are offered at Windows Update. You *do* have Internet Explorer
installed, and you *must* keep it up to date if you want to be safe. Doesn't
matter whether you use it to browse or not. It is an integral part of Windows.
When you update/upgrade IE, you are updating Windows. The incidence of problems
relating to updates is relatively low, or in some cases, the "bug" is a
necessary trade-off for security. But of course, you only hear about the bugs,
not about the millions of machines that have no problems with the patches. With
regard to Windows 9x, these bugs have been worked out long ago. You are mistaken
and or misguided when you say that, "To install all the patches is a serious
risk of crashes, possible reinstall. For me, that's not easy to fix." The risk
is only just significant. It's there, yes, but it's not a "serious" risk,
certainly not compared to the risk you expose yourself to by *not* installing
the patches. And I'm sorry, but if your system and backup habits are such that
having to reinstall Windows or otherwise recover from a glitch is a disastrous
possibility, then you're already skating on thin ice. I'd be looking to remedy
*that* situation, too.

I have a custom computer of separate bits and pieces. It plays fine after 7 years,
but in a reformat, nothing finds anything, and with age/medical issues, I get help
for it. I went for the choice of good hardware, but reformat is a bear. I have
reformatted a factory computer, that's easy.

You've given me good advice, a lot to "digest".
 




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