98SE: Endless boot up - no icons

inline, below....

"Eugene F." wrote in message
oups.com...
Glen,

Thank you very much for the response.

After I updated some of the programs

What programs exactly, and what updates? We need specific information.

To the best of my recallection: I've updates Ad-Aware SE Personal from
1.05 to 1.06 and SpyBot from 1.3 to 1.4.

If that is all you updated, it is not too likely that they were involved in the
problem, unless you scanned with both of them and "fixed" something that should not
have been "fixed". Did yo run scans with thos apps prior to the problem, or did you
just upgrade them?


my Windows 98SE system can never
boot up successfully. It goes through the usual routine but at the end
when it already switches to the desktop color and resolution - all I
see is the pointer with an hourglass and it stays forever. I can move
the pointer - so the system is not frozen.

Clarify: you get the desktop background (wallpaper) and the mouse pointer with
hourglass, but no Taskbar or desktop icons?

This is correct. Hourglass also changes to a smaller size due to
increased resolution.

snip
Press Ctrl+Alt+Delete only once, to bring up the "Close Program" box. What if
anything is listed there when this problem occurs?

Well. In most cases single "three key salute" does not bring any dialog
boxes at all.

That's not very helpful for you, is it :-\ The box *may* not be appearing
because the system is too busy.


Booting in the Safe Mode works fine but does not change the situation.

If it works fine, how is the situation not changed? When you start in Safe
Mode,
does the desktop complete loading?

Yes. In Safe Mode I seem to see the complete desktop.

OK, then you *can* actually navigate in Windows when you start in Safe Mode? If so,
follow Gary's suggestion from his reply:
"In Safe Mode, run MSCONFIG. Choose "Selective Startup", then uncheck
every item below that *except* the Win.ini and System.ini items. Click
OK, restart when prompted (let it try to start in Normal Mode.) Any
change?"

I see from you latest reply that you *may* have also done a "LiveUpdate" for a
Symantec NIS 2003. It is quite possible that is the problem, though since I do not
use any of their cra..., uh, software, I cannot tell you much about how to reverse
any damage that may have been done that way. PattyL's suggestion to restore a
previous registry may be one way around that.

("alt" groups not replied to)

Why not? Is it just your client can not post to different news servers
or do you have a reason to specifically avoid "alt" groups? Just
curios...

My client can post to whatever is available...I prefer not to cross-post, and when I
do I keep it to the msnews server. I find some of the alt groups have more than
their share of trolls, and the added posts tend to make solving the issue that much
harder. In general, cross-posting is something I and most others avoid. However, I
see you added the alt groups back when replying, thereby forcing me to cross-post to
them. If you insist on doing that, I will likely make this my last reply.
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

Enable half the items that you disabled in the startup group, click OK and restart.
If the problem returns, it is one of the items in that enabled group. If the
problem does not return, it is an item in the half you have not yet enabled. Choose
whichever half the problem entry is in, and enable only half of that half, click OK
and restart in normal mode, and continue with the "rule of halves" until you narrow
it down to the one that causes the problem; then post back with which it is.
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm


"Eugene" wrote in message
oups.com...
Gary,

Thank you for the reply.

In Safe Mode, run MSCONFIG. Choose "Selective Startup", then uncheck
every item below that *except* the Win.ini and System.ini items. Click
OK, restart when prompted (let it try to start in Normal Mode.) Any
change?

Yes. With just Win.INI and System.INI it loaded fine. I went a little
bit further and added Config.SYS and Autoexec.BAT - still fine.
And only when I added back the Startup group the problem reappears.

How do I zero in on the exact offender?

I also created BOOTLOG.TXT during one of the full unsuccessfull boot
ups. Is there a guide somewhere how to analyze it, what to look for?

TIA, Eugene

sigh That update was re-released quite some time ago, and the problems it caused
on some systems no longer occur with the new version.
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm


"Eugene" wrote in message
oups.com...
Anne,

In Safe Mode, Uninstall KB891711 from Control Panel -- this MS
"update" will produce the problem you are having as well as other
problems.

I unistalled this one a while ago when I was having problems with my
wireless Internet.

ROFL!

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

"glee" wrote in message
...
Oh, crap.......
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

"Eugene" wrote in message
ups.com...
I could've also "live updated" NIS (Norton Internet Security) 2003.

Just a small note for the OP: Each tab of System Configuration Utility
corresponds to one of those items in Selective Startup. On the tabs, you
can enable/disable individual items. Glen's talking about the Startup
tab.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

"glee" wrote in message
...
Enable half the items that you disabled in the startup group, click OK
and restart.
If the problem returns, it is one of the items in that enabled group.
If the
problem does not return, it is an item in the half you have not yet
enabled. Choose
whichever half the problem entry is in, and enable only half of that
half, click OK
and restart in normal mode, and continue with the "rule of halves"
until you narrow
it down to the one that causes the problem; then post back with which
it is.
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm


"Eugene" wrote in message
oups.com...
Gary,

Thank you for the reply.

In Safe Mode, run MSCONFIG. Choose "Selective Startup", then
uncheck
every item below that *except* the Win.ini and System.ini items.
Click
OK, restart when prompted (let it try to start in Normal Mode.) Any
change?

Yes. With just Win.INI and System.INI it loaded fine. I went a little
bit further and added Config.SYS and Autoexec.BAT - still fine.
And only when I added back the Startup group the problem reappears.

How do I zero in on the exact offender?

I also created BOOTLOG.TXT during one of the full unsuccessfull boot
ups. Is there a guide somewhere how to analyze it, what to look for?

TIA, Eugene

Glen,

I think you're right. I removed Norton/Symantec stuff from the Startup
list and can boot-up now.

My next step is to figure out how to uninstall NIS 2003 either in Safe
Mode or with limited number of Startup items. Since I enabled Parental
Controls I need "Supervisor" privileges to uninstall. Both Safe Mode
and No-Startup boot-ups do not allow me to select "supervisor" user.

I looked at Symantec Support site and, though it gives different
scenarios for uninstalling, did not find my case.

Eugene

Oops! yes, I should have mentioned that.
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

"Gary S. Terhune" wrote in message
...
Just a small note for the OP: Each tab of System Configuration Utility
corresponds to one of those items in Selective Startup. On the tabs, you
can enable/disable individual items. Glen's talking about the Startup
tab.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

"glee" wrote in message
...
Enable half the items that you disabled in the startup group, click OK
and restart.
If the problem returns, it is one of the items in that enabled group.
If the
problem does not return, it is an item in the half you have not yet
enabled. Choose
whichever half the problem entry is in, and enable only half of that
half, click OK
and restart in normal mode, and continue with the "rule of halves"
until you narrow
it down to the one that causes the problem; then post back with which
it is.
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm


"Eugene" wrote in message
oups.com...
Gary,

Thank you for the reply.

In Safe Mode, run MSCONFIG. Choose "Selective Startup", then
uncheck
every item below that *except* the Win.ini and System.ini items.
Click
OK, restart when prompted (let it try to start in Normal Mode.) Any
change?

Yes. With just Win.INI and System.INI it loaded fine. I went a little
bit further and added Config.SYS and Autoexec.BAT - still fine.
And only when I added back the Startup group the problem reappears.

How do I zero in on the exact offender?

I also created BOOTLOG.TXT during one of the full unsuccessfull boot
ups. Is there a guide somewhere how to analyze it, what to look for?

TIA, Eugene

If you cannot log in as the Supervisor using the info he
Error: "A Norton Internet Security account with Supervisor access must be logged in.
.. ." when uninstalling Norton Internet Security:
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT...sv=&osv_ lvl=

....then follow the instructions here to manually remove it with the RnisUPG utility:
Uninstalling Norton Internet Security or Personal Firewall 2003 or earlier using the
RnisUPG.exe removal utility:
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT...sv=&osv_ lvl=

--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm


"Eugene F." wrote in message
oups.com...
Glen,

I think you're right. I removed Norton/Symantec stuff from the Startup
list and can boot-up now.

My next step is to figure out how to uninstall NIS 2003 either in Safe
Mode or with limited number of Startup items. Since I enabled Parental
Controls I need "Supervisor" privileges to uninstall. Both Safe Mode
and No-Startup boot-ups do not allow me to select "supervisor" user.

I looked at Symantec Support site and, though it gives different
scenarios for uninstalling, did not find my case.

Eugene

On 30 Jul 2005 18:28:56 -0700, "Eugene" wrote:

Gary,

Thank you for the reply.

In Safe Mode, run MSCONFIG. Choose "Selective Startup", then uncheck
every item below that *except* the Win.ini and System.ini items. Click
OK, restart when prompted (let it try to start in Normal Mode.) Any
change?

Yes. With just Win.INI and System.INI it loaded fine. I went a little
bit further and added Config.SYS and Autoexec.BAT - still fine.
And only when I added back the Startup group the problem reappears.

How do I zero in on the exact offender?
Progressively enable each member of the Startup group.


I also created BOOTLOG.TXT during one of the full unsuccessfull boot
ups. Is there a guide somewhere how to analyze it, what to look for?

TIA, Eugene