trying to install Win 98 onto flash drive, but problems

Well the drives I get probably won't be used in a timely manner to begin with so not much news about them is likely to be coming from me. I'm quite confident that the NOS china drives are new and will work fine though, they are too big for my first 98 box and don't fit well with the 500 gig used on the XP dual boot box either. I may use them for Atari 8 bit system even so when any of that may come about is doubtful at best. I need other toys like IDE to SCSI bridge that are rare as hen's teeth today unless you have a bottomless wallet.
And I don't.

So 'plop' is certainly a stumbling point, you'll always have to boot from a CD containing plop which may be an issue in 98 install at second or third boot. I do say may, not sure there at all. Issue in my mind is getting plop to live on a standard 98 install CD such that plop gets used before DOS gets to load it's drive tables from partition info which is very early in the boot process. If the USB drive isn't present at that moment we have danger, will robinson, danger. Or Houston, we have a problem depending on just when you grew up. And yes, there might be better USB drivers than plop offers, could very will be the entire issue.

I know in other projects using other formatting tools, one USB drive will show an option for FAT16 and the next drive won't. And I have no idea exactly why. Can't help but think that there can be a fundamental difference in the hardware of USB drives from different sources, one installs a driver that is capable of FAT16 and the other installs a driver that overlooks that old junk as not useful. Doesn't seem to be an issue as reported anyway, I also got some 2 gig pen drives coming as mine seem to vanish too.

I do think that 98 would love to live on that laptop however, it's specs are just right for it and that's a very rare situation when you think about it. I would quickly abandon the USB approach once the NOS china drives arrive, that's for sure. 98 on USB drive is an interesting thing to play around with is all it will ever amount to here, and I have a good deal of other computer projects that are more pressing for me for the foreseeable future too. All the best.

Lee

On Fri, 20 Jan 2017 10:49:57 -0500, Dobbins etc
wrote:

I am trying to install Win98 onto a flash drive (in my case 8 GB flash)
as detailed he

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Qd7cDbtwj4

I get as far as the "Microsoft ScanDisk" screen during installation of
'98 onto the flash drive, but then I keep getting hanging during the
"directory structure" scan. Any ideas would be welcome.

I should mention that I did encounter one issue during set up detailed
in the video: where it says to reformat the flash drive as FAT, I was
presented with only FAT32 and NTFS options. I went with FAT32 after at
least one person said they had success (and I wasn't sure how to
reformat to FAT if I didn't have the option presented).

Thank you

Fat 32 works fine with Win98. I have 98 installed on my HDD, which is
Fat 32. I also have Windows 2000 on the same machine (dual booted).
The computer was made and came with Win2000, but I use 98 a lot more.
I'd probably change Win2000 to XP, but I dont thing the computer would
have enough power to run XP properly. I have XP on another newer
computer anyhow. Anyhow, I have two 120gb drives on this machine. Six
partitions (All Fat 32), with Win98 on C: and Win2000 on D: (I think
Win2000 could use NTFS, I sort of forget, but I just have it on Fat32).
But Win98 was never made to use NTFS.

I have to ask WHY you want to install Win98 on a flash drive? Just
install it on a HDD and dual boot if you want.

One problem I see, is that Win98 was not built with any real USB
support. That might be your problem. There are some aftermarket progs
you can install for better USB sipport, but that is NOT in your
installation from the 98 CD. And most of that aftermarket stuff still
dont work the greatest in 98. For example, I can use some 2 or 4 GB
flash drives, but it wont accept any bigger ones. Thats the main reason
I have Win2000 installed. W2000 has a lot better USB support. I can plug
in my 500gb portable HDD and copy all my data to it, which is not only a
backup but also allowed me to access all my data on my XP machine.

One other thing. I still use some actual Dos programs. I dont want them
running in a Dos window, I want actual dos. Close Win98 using the
"Restart on MS-DOS mode", and when you restart you have true dos. I
always have it set that way. If I want to use Dos, it's loaded, if I
want Win98, I just type "WIN", and it loads.

So, I actually have THREE operating systems available on one
machine.....

Dobbins etc wrote:

Ah - you were trying to install win-98 on the thumb drive, not
*from* the thumb drive.

Correct.

So my next question is - what OS is currently on the Toshiba's
internal hard drive?

Right now, it has Win Me.

Running any OS from a thumb drive, even if you have USB-2 ports, is a
really dumb idea.

It would be VERY slow.

And if your temp files, cache files, virtual ram files are also being
written to the thumb drive, not only is is slow, you will eventually
burn out the thumb drive. Flash-ram doesn't have a lot of read/write
cycles.

If the computer has only USB-1 ports, then it's a _really_ dumb idea.

My next question is:

Why didn't you simply do a dual-boot Win ME/Win-98 on the existing hard
drive?

wrote:

Fat 32 works fine with Win98.

That is hardly a "news flash" for anyone here. FAT32 is the standard
file-system for Win-98 and I think one of the versions of Win-95 as
well.

On a few Win-XP machines I putz with, I also use FAT32 for those (at
least on the drives where the OS is installed on).

(I think Win2000 could use NTFS, I sort of forget, but I just have
it on Fat32).

All NT-based OS's (NT, 2K, XP, etc) have built-in NTFS support and will
default to that file system when preparing new drives or during
installation.

One problem I see, is that Win98 was not built with any real USB
support. That might be your problem. There are some aftermarket
progs you can install for better USB sipport, but that is NOT in
your installation from the 98 CD. And most of that aftermarket
stuff still dont work the greatest in 98.

NUSB 3.6 is what you want. Gives win-98 a very high degree of
compatibility with practically all USB thumb drives.

For example, I can use some 2 or 4 GB flash drives, but it wont
accept any bigger ones.

When it comes to SD-ram cards (those small, square ram cards, about the
size of a postage stamp that are commonly found in digital cameras) the
USB readers for those cards (frequently the readers come in the form of
a "9-in-1" 3.5" drive-bay slide-in unit) were limited to reading up
either 2 or 4 gb up. It was a hardware limitation in the reader. If
you have a SD-card reader newer than about 4 years old then it should be
compatible with SD-cards up to 128 or 256 gb.

I have one of those newer readers in my win-98 system, and have been
able to read and write to SD cards up to the largest I've had - 64 gb.
Note that the SD-card must be formatted as FAT32, not ExFAT. Some
cameras will use ExFAT when you format the card in the camera. Win-98
can't read or write to ExFAT volumes, and neigher can XP (but there is
an ExFAT driver available for XP that you must go and seek out and
install yourself).

When it comes to USB thumb drives, the largest that I buy are 32 gb -
which work fine on my win-98 system, but because my system is USB-2,
getting larger thumb drives isin't useful because I tend not to move
large files or a lot of small files on thumb drives because even with
USB-2 it's too slow for my liking. If I need to move anywhere from 1 to
several dozen GB worth of files I will just attach a SATA drive directly
to my win-98 computer and copy the files to the attached drive. I've
never connected a hard drive through a USB port on any computer I own
and never intend to and have never wanted to.

Thats the main reason I have Win2000 installed. W2000 has
a lot better USB support. I can plug in my 500gb portable HDD
and copy all my data to it, which is not only a backup but
also allowed me to access all my data on my XP machine.

Win 2K is a buggy piece of ****.
USB-connected hard drives are a piece of ****.

If you know what you're doing, and it isin't that hard really, you just
connect a spare drive to an available IDE or SATA port and copy your
files. Or use a thumb drive (32 gb capacity is usually more than
enough).

No reason to go to 2K just for better thumb drive support.

And my win-98 system currently has a pair of 1 TB sata drives connected
to it, fully supported with 32-bit drivers. Both drives formatted as
FAT32 and fully accessible to win-98.

On 01/23/2017 10:12 AM, 98 Guy wrote:

Running any OS from a thumb drive, even if you have USB-2 ports, is a
really dumb idea.


Although I've never tried it, it probably isn't the greatest idea, at
least as far as for Win OS. On the other hand, supposedly Linux based
OS's tend to make the job much easier. I am using my Ubuntu based
laptop now as I write. Problem is that it doesn't seem that nearly any
Linux distro was far enough along yet at the same time as Win 98 and all
current ones are for better machines.


.....you will eventually
burn out the thumb drive. Flash-ram doesn't have a lot of read/write
cycles.

I already surmised that, thanks. I use flash thumb drives on a regular
basis with all of my Win/Linux systems and I have had them burn out or
become unreadable on occasion. I finally learned to keep regular back
ups of each flash on a couple of master hard drives. I use probably in
the neighbourhood of 20 flash drives for different purposes.


Why didn't you simply do a dual-boot Win ME/Win-98 on the existing hard
drive?

Well, the laptop I'm on right now is configured that way as I can boot
into either Ubuntu or Win7 at start up. It just wasn't worth the
trouble with the very old laptop with ME. Besides, it seems like anyone
who tried what I had attempted to do with ME instead of 98 couldn't get
it to install. I've had a 98 CD around here for years, so knew I could
try to install exactly as per the video.

On 01/23/2017 07:04 AM, wrote:

I have to ask WHY you want to install Win98 on a flash drive? Just
install it on a HDD and dual boot if you want.

Well, before I saw 60 GB hard drives at a decent price, since the
laptop's original HD burned out, I have it currently configured with a
compact flash to IDE adapter and Win ME is installed and running fine
with the CF card as primary HD. Problem is, as someone else said, we
know flash drives have limited read/write cycles but so does CF. As a
workaround, I was just going to put 98 onto a cheap flash and use it as
a hard drive thereby limiting useage of the CF in the laptop. Now that
the supposedly new 60 GB hard drive is on the way, I no longer have the
CF concerns.


One problem I see, is that Win98 was not built with any real USB
support. That might be your problem.

Quite true and even that laptop's BIOS didn't have a selectable USB boot
option, so I had to use "Plop" on a CD to get bootable USB support.
Further research on my part showed that the "Plop" USB driver might have
been at fault too.

So, I actually have THREE operating systems available on one
machine.....

I actually have a bunch of OS's set up as VM's under Virtualbox on my XP
desktop. That was what helped me decide which Linux distro I was going
to use for the Internet. I probably could have preset a new VM using
the same RAM and CPU as the laptop in question, but it still wouldn't
have been as accurate of a test as the actual set up.

No longer any need to try though, now that my replacement HD is on the
way. I can use the CF lightly until then.

Dobbins etc wrote:
On 01/23/2017 10:12 AM, 98 Guy wrote:

Running any OS from a thumb drive, even if you have USB-2 ports, is a
really dumb idea.


Although I've never tried it, it probably isn't the greatest idea, at
least as far as for Win OS. On the other hand, supposedly Linux based
OS's tend to make the job much easier. I am using my Ubuntu based
laptop now as I write. Problem is that it doesn't seem that nearly any
Linux distro was far enough along yet at the same time as Win 98 and all
current ones are for better machines.

There's a Linux distro called Damn Small Linux (DSL) that was designed
to work well with Win98 era hardware. It can also be installed to flash
devices in a way that prevents wearing them out by running completely
in RAM, and thereby not performing all the small writes caused by
running an OS on the flash drive itself.

Unfortunately development has ceased and much of the software
available is rather out of date, but it is about as usable as Win98.

http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/

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On 01/23/2017 04:18 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:


There's a Linux distro called Damn Small Linux (DSL) that was designed
to work well with Win98 era hardware. It can also be installed to flash
devices in a way that prevents wearing them out by running completely
in RAM, and thereby not performing all the small writes caused by
running an OS on the flash drive itself.

Unfortunately development has ceased and much of the software
available is rather out of date, but it is about as usable as Win98.

http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/


Yes, I tried a live CD of it last week after the old laptop's hd failed.
It was the only distro I found that would work. The laptop only has
64 MB RAM, so that automatically disqualified most OS software running
RAM. However, I could see some possible issues on the horizon such as
USB support (or lack thereof) and whether or not I'd ever be able to get
a 98 era webcam functional with it.

Dobbins etc wrote:
On 01/23/2017 04:18 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:


There's a Linux distro called Damn Small Linux (DSL) that was designed
to work well with Win98 era hardware. It can also be installed to flash
devices in a way that prevents wearing them out by running completely
in RAM, and thereby not performing all the small writes caused by
running an OS on the flash drive itself.

Unfortunately development has ceased and much of the software
available is rather out of date, but it is about as usable as Win98.

http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/

Yes, I tried a live CD of it last week after the old laptop's hd failed.
It was the only distro I found that would work. The laptop only has
64 MB RAM, so that automatically disqualified most OS software running
RAM. However, I could see some possible issues on the horizon such as
USB support (or lack thereof) and whether or not I'd ever be able to get
a 98 era webcam functional with it.

USB usually works with DSL, I guess you might have had a driver
problem.

The webcam would indeed be an issue though. I don't think they're
very well supported in Linux even at the best of times.

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Just for the record, I actually got this to work with my Dell Inspiron
1545. Of course, a *much* different animal than the "primitive" Toshiba
PII laptop, but I think the main reason for the no-go on the Toshiba was
limited USB support. At least I know the method works, however, given
the right machine.