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Windows95, 98 and 2000 will BANNED on March 1, 2012 - Violators will be Prosecuted



 
 
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  #11  
Old February 21st 12, 09:44 PM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion,microsoft.public.win2000.general,alt.windows95
J. P. Gilliver (John)
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 1,554
Default Windows95, 98 and 2000 will BANNED on March 1, 2012 - Violators will be Prosecuted

In message , MotoFox
confucius-say@enlightenment!to!him!lead!it!for!bangpath!foll ow!man!wise.
UUCP writes:
[]
BW, your ASCII art signature has alternating blank lines-is that
intentional? It doesn't always.


Definitely not intentional; sounds like you're not using a wide-enough
viewport (text area.) The sigblock is written to fit a 72-column
viewport, no less. If the following two lines wrap, your viewport's not
wide enough:
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
1234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789 01234567890123456789012

Nope, I see those fine. I've noticed this in general: some of your posts
come out (with the signature) fine, some come out (with it) double
spaced. The post I'm replying to this time, for example, "Date: 2012
February 21 10:10:41", had a non-spaced .sig; the one I was replying to,
"Date: 2012 February 18 20:11:12", had a spaced one (all the lines are
there, there are just blank lines between them). I just checked, and
both posts are still as I describe.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Nothing fixes a thing so intensely in the memory as the wish to forget it.
-Michel de Montaigne, essayist (1533-1592)
  #12  
Old February 21st 12, 10:46 PM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion,microsoft.public.win2000.general,alt.windows95
Lostgallifreyan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,562
Default Windows95, 98 and 2000 will BANNED on March 1, 2012 - Violators will be Prosecuted

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in
:

In message , MotoFox
confucius-say@enlightenment!to!him!lead!it!for!bangpath!foll ow!man!wise.
UUCP writes:
[]
BW, your ASCII art signature has alternating blank lines-is that
intentional? It doesn't always.


Definitely not intentional; sounds like you're not using a wide-enough
viewport (text area.) The sigblock is written to fit a 72-column
viewport, no less. If the following two lines wrap, your viewport's not
wide enough:
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678 901234567890123456789012

Nope, I see those fine. I've noticed this in general: some of your posts
come out (with the signature) fine, some come out (with it) double
spaced. The post I'm replying to this time, for example, "Date: 2012
February 21 10:10:41", had a non-spaced .sig; the one I was replying to,
"Date: 2012 February 18 20:11:12", had a spaced one (all the lines are
there, there are just blank lines between them). I just checked, and
both posts are still as I describe.


That might result from passing through a system that sees CRLF (which is
required for email systems and likely others) but fails to handle it as one
newline. If it assumes that either CR or LF are ok as newlines, but isn't
coded a bit smarter, the result is double-spacing.

There is a way that all systems could handle this, to prevent it happening:
(The means 'convert', scanning whole file or segment of stream for each
attmpt to convert.)

CRLF LF
LFCR LF
CR LF
(If Unix format file, save now and return.)
LF CRLF
(If Windows save now and return, else if Mac, CRLF CR then save and
return.)

This way each outputs what is appropiate locally, but it still works if sent
INappropriately to any remote system, assuming they do this too.

-------------

Another possibility exists: word wrap borking it AT the line end, effectively
displacing the newline itself to a new line, then that newline creats the
second apparent empty line. If this is the case, sigs maybe need to be TWO
characters shorter than standard span in case both CR and LF get counted as
part of the length. The may even be cases where a C-code string's null
terminator is erronously counted but anythign that does that when it
shouldn't might be obviously broken in other ways. I don't think this is
what's happening in the post-sig case though, if you see it happen on shorter
lines too.
  #13  
Old February 22nd 12, 12:15 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion,microsoft.public.win2000.general,alt.windows95
J. P. Gilliver (John)
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 1,554
Default Windows95, 98 and 2000 will BANNED on March 1, 2012 - Violators will be Prosecuted

In message ,
Lostgallifreyan writes:
[]
That might result from passing through a system that sees CRLF (which is

[much clever stuff deleted]

I suppose you could have the answer, _if_ Motofox's posts are reaching
the newsserver I use (eternal-september, for MPWG_D which is the one of
the three I take) by two or more routes with different rules. I'm
looking at both posts with the same client.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Freedom of the press is limited to those who have one.
  #14  
Old February 22nd 12, 01:11 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion,microsoft.public.win2000.general,alt.windows95
Lostgallifreyan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,562
Default Windows95, 98 and 2000 will BANNED on March 1, 2012 - Violators will be Prosecuted

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in
:

In message ,
Lostgallifreyan writes:
[]
That might result from passing through a system that sees CRLF (which is

[much clever stuff deleted]

I suppose you could have the answer, _if_ Motofox's posts are reaching
the newsserver I use (eternal-september, for MPWG_D which is the one of
the three I take) by two or more routes with different rules. I'm
looking at both posts with the same client.


Just giving it my best shot. I have no way to prove it.. It seems likely
to me given that theere are different ways to do newlines. I get mails from
one of my sisters that only have CR in them, and I saw the same in something
I got from a mailing list yesterday. All it takes is some limited treatment
for this to act wrongly on something it didn't expect. Could happen
anywhere...
  #15  
Old February 22nd 12, 09:13 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion,microsoft.public.win2000.general,alt.windows95
J. P. Gilliver (John)
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 1,554
Default Windows95, 98 and 2000 will BANNED on March 1, 2012 - Violators will be Prosecuted

In message , MotoFox
confucius-say@enlightenment!to!him!lead!it!for!bangpath!foll ow!man!wise.
UUCP writes:
[]
~Tell me how the sigblock shows up in this post, J.P.G. We're both on
eternal-september using basically the same paths, and on reading back my
own posts I've never seen the "broken" sigblock that you describe except
in the few very rare cases where I've had to use G??gl? Groups. (But
that's to be expected.) So we can probably rule out e-s' server software
(currently "InterNetNews NNRP server INN 2.6.0 [20120124 snapshot]")
misinterpreting CR/LF. If I had to guess, I'd say it's probably an issue
with the way your particular newsreader (User-Agent: Turnpike/6.07-M)
handles these characters.

It was fine in that post. It wasn't in one near the beginning of the
thread, and then was in another one - I gave you the timestamps in my
last post. I can't see how my Turnpike could be causing variable parsing
- especially since the same post always comes out the same, so I'm
assuming it's en route corruption.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

.... so cracking a joke would be like farting in the Sistine Chapel. - Alison
Graham, Radio Times 29 January-4 February 2011
  #16  
Old February 22nd 12, 01:35 PM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion,microsoft.public.win2000.general,alt.windows95
Lostgallifreyan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,562
Default Windows95, 98 and 2000 will BANNED on March 1, 2012 - Violators will be Prosecuted

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in
:

It was fine in that post. It wasn't in one near the beginning of the
thread, and then was in another one - I gave you the timestamps in my
last post. I can't see how my Turnpike could be causing variable parsing
- especially since the same post always comes out the same, so I'm
assuming it's en route corruption.


I didn't notice it before, but it has doublespacing for me too, the first
Motofox post in this thread. Copying from either form and pasting in a hex
editor just shows 0D 0A for each newline. Assuming one newline started out
that way, something is replacing CR and LF separately with CRLF, rather than
just passing the data as it gets it. It rules out simple packet routing as
source of error, but someone in the chain is trying to 'fix' something and
failing. Maybe some Unix type who hates 'Windoze' without realising that CR
LF isn't a Windows thing at all, but is required by many comms systems long
before Windows existed, as well as now.
  #18  
Old February 22nd 12, 09:38 PM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion,microsoft.public.win2000.general,alt.windows95
J. P. Gilliver (John)
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 1,554
Default Windows95, 98 and 2000 will BANNED on March 1, 2012 - Violators will be Prosecuted

In message ,
Lostgallifreyan writes:
MotoFox confucius-
say@enlightenment!to!him!lead!it!for!bangpath!fol low!man!wise.UUCP
wrote in :

Makes me
glad I don't have a Window$ machine on the network!

--
_ _ ______________ ___________ __

/ \/ \/ __ _ _ __ \/ __ __ \/ / Originator of the word

/ /\/\ /_/ // // /_/ / __// /_/ /\ \ "enubulous"

/_/ \____//_/ \______/ \____//_/\_\ !i84w!exit210!304senye!motofox


Hmmm Although likely NOT the cause of that doublespacing, or it
would be consistent.

But as I see the doublespace too, and as it affects the sig and not the
main post text, it must be something that thinks it know about sigs.


Interesting: good point! Only his .sig was doublespaced, not his message
text. (At least, I don't think so.)

And it must be something at source.


I don't think so, if you mean something at Motofox; I've seen posts from
him that both do and don't have the doublespaced .sig.

--
Sigtest here
More sigtest
(Not sure that two dashes and a space is all it takes to indicate a sig, but
here goes...)


Oh, it is. Newline dash dash space newline - i. e. dash dash space on a
line by itself - is indeed a .sig separator, according to some RFC. (I
had to override my news software to get it to quote the above; normally
it'd have snipped it.)

And neither your text above nor below the delimiter is appearing
doublespaced ...
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible,
he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is
very probably wrong." - Arthur C. Clarke
  #19  
Old February 22nd 12, 11:07 PM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion,microsoft.public.win2000.general,alt.windows95
Lostgallifreyan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,562
Default Windows95, 98 and 2000 will BANNED on March 1, 2012 - Violators will be Prosecuted

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in
:

And it must be something at source.


I don't think so, if you mean something at Motofox; I've seen posts from
him that both do and don't have the doublespaced .sig.


Well, maybe not.. I just meant that (Occam's Razor being what it is) that if
we both see the double-spaces, and it's limited to sigs, it implies some
small chaneg somewhere in the originating software. Add to that that Motofox
clearly likes to tweak a good sig, and it seeme likely. But I haven't
ruled out somethign in the transmission chain, because I have no idea what
that might be, other that it beign safe to assume that no direct packet-
passer is going to do somethign this weirdly specific without borking plenty
more.

(I checked my earlier post, saw the sig-test, it definitely looked ok. I
guess the invisible trailing space after the two dashes makes it unlikely to
fall foul of ASCII art schematics and such, so it's a neat idea. I wonder
if some parsing quirk in Motofox's software is causing the double-spaces,
given that it has to make decisions about this stuff anyway).
  #20  
Old February 25th 12, 07:10 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion,microsoft.public.win2000.general,alt.windows95
000-222-000[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13
Default Windows95, 98 and 2000 will BANNED on March 1, 2012 - Violators will be Prosecuted

"Peter Foldes" wrote in message ...
HT

You are answering a Troll post.


Will Peter it hard to keep up
with all the Troll at microsoft.public .....



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