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#61
October 14th 05, 07:50 AM
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On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 02:36:10 -0700, "Gary S. Terhune"
put finger to keyboard and composed: wrote in message roups.com... Except regarding his belief that my modem has no driver, but only an .INF File. I'm not going to get into that one. It's more a matter of semantics, like most of this discussion has been. At the risk of appearing pedantic, I'll endeavour to explain why I consider the difference to be significant. There are three types of internal modems, "soft", controllerless, and "hard" (controller based). Softmodems have a DAA (telephone line interface), controllerless modems have a DAA and DSP (digital signal processor), and "hard" modems have a DAA, DSP, and controller. Among other things, a modem's controller handles AT command parsing, UART emulation, data compression and error correction. The DSP handles all the CPU intensive tasks. Examples of softmodem chipsets are PCtel HSP, Motorola SM56, Smartlink, and Conexant HSF. Controllerless examples include Conexant HCF, Intel HaM, Lucent Win Modem, and USR Winmodem. This is a block diagram of the modem's functional parts: PCI/ --- PnP --- UART/ --- controller --- DSP --- DAA - phone line ISA logic COM port bus logic A full hardware modem will have all the above parts and will appear to the OS like a standard COM port. Therefore it will require no drivers other than those normally associated with a serial port. Such a modem will be visible to DOS, if its resources have been assigned. A controllerless modem, OTOH, has no COM port and no controller. It therefore requires drivers to emulate these missing components. A softmodem requires additional drivers to add DSP functionality. The reason that a modem requires an INF file is that this text file contains a list of commands and responses supported by the modem's firmware or drivers. Because each modem's command set is peculiar to its chipset, software applications require APIs to communicate transparently with the modem. For example, if an app needs to place the modem in voice answer mode, then it consults the following registry key: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Servic es\Class\Modem\000n\VoiceAnswer In my case this key has 7 AT commands that perform the requested function. Other modems will have different commands for the same thing. The complete set of commands and responses are to be found in the INF file. The installation process for a "hard" modem primarily involves adding the INF file's data to this registry key: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Servic es\Class\Modem\000n where 000n is the number of the modem, if you have more than one. -- Franc Zabkar Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email. 
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#62
October 14th 05, 09:02 AM
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This is not about the topic directly except to say I finally have the =
opportunity to thank someone YOU. I have over the years learned so much = from your posts. I only read newsgroups occasionally in the past (too = busy). But I always found an answer about those slow modems, tweaks and = I used one you wrote for a PCTel. Also you had answers when I searched = about anything hardwire related and a lot of other stuff far above my = comprehension. So thanks for sharing your knowledge which has helped me = tremendously. -- mae "Franc Zabkar" wrote in message = ... | On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 02:36:10 -0700, "Gary S. Terhune" | put finger to keyboard and composed: |=20 | wrote in message | roups.com... |=20 --snip-
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#63
October 14th 05, 09:52 AM
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I agree with Mae. Franc, you have helped me a great deal and I
appreciate it very much! Several others on this site have helped me as well. Since my PC works well now without the modem, and since I don't need a modem anymore, it's not really worthwhile for me to go back and determine with absolute certainty what the cause of the Safe Mode bootup was. At the very least, I have more knowledge about my PC now, so that if this kind of problem ever occurs again, I will be able to troubleshoot it much more effectively. That being said, I propose ending this thread now and moving on to others. Once again, thanks to everybody for their generous input. Patrick
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#64
October 14th 05, 04:46 PM
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#65
October 14th 05, 08:26 PM
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"Gary S. Terhune" wrote in message
... Thank you, Franc. Always appreciated. Now, can you explain to me why, if has a hardware modem that does not require any drivers (as he claims) and only uses the serial port, why there would be an IRQ assigned to the modem? The IRQs are assigned to the Serial Ports. Internal modems are treated just like serial ports. Ergo, ipso facto, et cetera.......
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#66
October 14th 05, 09:10 PM
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"Hugh Candlin" wrote in message ... "Gary S. Terhune" wrote in message ... Thank you, Franc. Always appreciated. Now, can you explain to me why, if has a hardware modem that does not require any drivers (as he claims) and only uses the serial port, why there would be an IRQ assigned to the modem? The IRQs are assigned to the Serial Ports. Internal modems are treated just like serial ports. Ergo, ipso facto, et cetera....... Exactly! So if one is to claim that an external modem requires no drivers, because it uses a serial port (or parallel or USB), that also holds true for the IRQ. There is no IRQ assigned to the modem, only to the port it's using. Can't have it both ways. Which is why this thread has been so confusing. If, in fact, it *was* both ways, then either the modem has drivers or the IRQ assignment to the modem was in fact unnecessary. -- Gary S. Terhune MS MVP Shell/User
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#67
October 14th 05, 09:55 PM
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Gary S. Terhune wrote: can you explain to me why, if has a hardware modem that does not require any drivers (as he claims) and only uses the serial port, why there would be an IRQ assigned to the modem? First of all: I was trusting Franc's expertise when I said the modem has no drivers. I originally thought it did, but Franc said otherwise, so I went with what he said (as you can see by reading the thread carefully). Secondly: It is an internal modem, you know. So an IRQ is assigned to it. If it were external, it would use the serial port's IRQ. Perhaps we should put an end to the thread now? It's gone on for quite some time. -- Gary S. Terhune MS MVP Shell/User "Franc Zabkar" wrote in message ... On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 02:36:10 -0700, "Gary S. Terhune" put finger to keyboard and composed: wrote in message roups.com... Except regarding his belief that my modem has no driver, but only an .INF File. I'm not going to get into that one. It's more a matter of semantics, like most of this discussion has been. At the risk of appearing pedantic, I'll endeavour to explain why I consider the difference to be significant. There are three types of internal modems, "soft", controllerless, and "hard" (controller based). Softmodems have a DAA (telephone line interface), controllerless modems have a DAA and DSP (digital signal processor), and "hard" modems have a DAA, DSP, and controller. Among other things, a modem's controller handles AT command parsing, UART emulation, data compression and error correction. The DSP handles all the CPU intensive tasks. Examples of softmodem chipsets are PCtel HSP, Motorola SM56, Smartlink, and Conexant HSF. Controllerless examples include Conexant HCF, Intel HaM, Lucent Win Modem, and USR Winmodem. This is a block diagram of the modem's functional parts: PCI/ --- PnP --- UART/ --- controller --- DSP --- DAA - phone line ISA logic COM port bus logic A full hardware modem will have all the above parts and will appear to the OS like a standard COM port. Therefore it will require no drivers other than those normally associated with a serial port. Such a modem will be visible to DOS, if its resources have been assigned. A controllerless modem, OTOH, has no COM port and no controller. It therefore requires drivers to emulate these missing components. A softmodem requires additional drivers to add DSP functionality. The reason that a modem requires an INF file is that this text file contains a list of commands and responses supported by the modem's firmware or drivers. Because each modem's command set is peculiar to its chipset, software applications require APIs to communicate transparently with the modem. For example, if an app needs to place the modem in voice answer mode, then it consults the following registry key: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Servic es\Class\Modem\000n\VoiceA nswer In my case this key has 7 AT commands that perform the requested function. Other modems will have different commands for the same thing. The complete set of commands and responses are to be found in the INF file. The installation process for a "hard" modem primarily involves adding the INF file's data to this registry key: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Servic es\Class\Modem\000n where 000n is the number of the modem, if you have more than one. -- Franc Zabkar Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
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#68
October 14th 05, 10:27 PM
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Long threads are no big deal. This particular datum is integral to the
confusion that developed here. But first, I was mistaken (I think) when I restricted my previous description to an "external" modem. It could also be an internal pure-hardware ISA modem. *If* that were the case, there would be no drivers, but there would also be no IRQ assigned. Here's the paragraph Franc wrote on that. "If this is an ISA "hardware" non-PnP modem, then it would most likely have occupied IRQ 3 or IRQ 4 and would have appeared as a standard COM port in DM." Note the starting "If". You appear to have read that as saying that you had such a modem and therefore had no drivers. Which isn't what Franc was saying. Many ISA modems are not "pure-hardware" modems and require both IRQ and other Resources to be assigned to them. They also need Windows drivers. -- Gary S. Terhune MS MVP Shell/User wrote in message oups.com... Gary S. Terhune wrote: can you explain to me why, if has a hardware modem that does not require any drivers (as he claims) and only uses the serial port, why there would be an IRQ assigned to the modem? First of all: I was trusting Franc's expertise when I said the modem has no drivers. I originally thought it did, but Franc said otherwise, so I went with what he said (as you can see by reading the thread carefully). Secondly: It is an internal modem, you know. So an IRQ is assigned to it. If it were external, it would use the serial port's IRQ. Perhaps we should put an end to the thread now? It's gone on for quite some time. -- Gary S. Terhune MS MVP Shell/User "Franc Zabkar" wrote in message ... On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 02:36:10 -0700, "Gary S. Terhune" put finger to keyboard and composed: wrote in message roups.com... Except regarding his belief that my modem has no driver, but only an .INF File. I'm not going to get into that one. It's more a matter of semantics, like most of this discussion has been. At the risk of appearing pedantic, I'll endeavour to explain why I consider the difference to be significant. There are three types of internal modems, "soft", controllerless, and "hard" (controller based). Softmodems have a DAA (telephone line interface), controllerless modems have a DAA and DSP (digital signal processor), and "hard" modems have a DAA, DSP, and controller. Among other things, a modem's controller handles AT command parsing, UART emulation, data compression and error correction. The DSP handles all the CPU intensive tasks. Examples of softmodem chipsets are PCtel HSP, Motorola SM56, Smartlink, and Conexant HSF. Controllerless examples include Conexant HCF, Intel HaM, Lucent Win Modem, and USR Winmodem. This is a block diagram of the modem's functional parts: PCI/ --- PnP --- UART/ --- controller --- DSP --- DAA - phone line ISA logic COM port bus logic A full hardware modem will have all the above parts and will appear to the OS like a standard COM port. Therefore it will require no drivers other than those normally associated with a serial port. Such a modem will be visible to DOS, if its resources have been assigned. A controllerless modem, OTOH, has no COM port and no controller. It therefore requires drivers to emulate these missing components. A softmodem requires additional drivers to add DSP functionality. The reason that a modem requires an INF file is that this text file contains a list of commands and responses supported by the modem's firmware or drivers. Because each modem's command set is peculiar to its chipset, software applications require APIs to communicate transparently with the modem. For example, if an app needs to place the modem in voice answer mode, then it consults the following registry key: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Servic es\Class\Modem\000n\VoiceA nswer In my case this key has 7 AT commands that perform the requested function. Other modems will have different commands for the same thing. The complete set of commands and responses are to be found in the INF file. The installation process for a "hard" modem primarily involves adding the INF file's data to this registry key: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Servic es\Class\Modem\000n where 000n is the number of the modem, if you have more than one. -- Franc Zabkar Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
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#69
October 15th 05, 02:43 AM
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Gary S. Terhune wrote: Here's the paragraph Franc wrote on that. "If this is an ISA "hardware" non-PnP modem, then it would most likely have occupied IRQ 3 or IRQ 4 and would have appeared as a standard COM port in DM." Note the starting "If". You appear to have read that as saying that you had such a modem and therefore had no drivers. Which isn't what Franc was saying. Many ISA modems are not "pure-hardware" modems and require both IRQ and other Resources to be assigned to them. They also need Windows drivers. No, I didn't read it as saying that I HAVE such a modem. I knew Franc was saying simply that ISA "hardware" non-PnP modems don't have drivers. But it does look like I misunderstood what he meant by the term "hardware" modem. Franc didn't define the term and, based on what you just wrote, it looks like the term has a more technical definition than I thought. That looks like the root of the problem. Perhaps you can fill in the details and explain precisely what is the difference between "hardware" and "soft" modems. BTW, my modem is a US Robotics Sportster 56K FaxModem. Based on that information, perhaps you can tell me what category it fits into. Thanks.
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#70
October 15th 05, 03:06 AM
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I don't think I can do better than Franc did, 8 posts back up this
sub-thread, at explaining the technical differences. I *believe* the Sportster is a WinModem chipset. But you should look at it carefully and figure out exactly what model it is, perhaps using this page to help you identify it: http://www.usr.com/support/s-main-menu.asp If it's a WinModem, it's not controllerless, but it doesn't have all signal-processing abilities built in. Some of that is done by Windows. FWIW, here's how I think of them, though I'm not sure,. and in fact I very much doubt, that this is a totally accurate and reliable rule-of-thumb: When your modem is what I called a "pure-hardware" modem, you won't necessarily see it listed in DM. Or if you do see it, it has no resources assigned other than those that are assigned to the COM or parallel or USB port it's connected to. When it's a "WinModem" type, you will see the modem listed as a separate device, complete with its own resources. When it's a softmodem, there will be an entry for the modem *and* an entry for the controller. I forget how they deal with resources. (I don't happen to have a machine running with a modem installed at this moment.) -- Gary S. Terhune MS MVP Shell/User wrote in message oups.com... Gary S. Terhune wrote: Here's the paragraph Franc wrote on that. "If this is an ISA "hardware" non-PnP modem, then it would most likely have occupied IRQ 3 or IRQ 4 and would have appeared as a standard COM port in DM." Note the starting "If". You appear to have read that as saying that you had such a modem and therefore had no drivers. Which isn't what Franc was saying. Many ISA modems are not "pure-hardware" modems and require both IRQ and other Resources to be assigned to them. They also need Windows drivers. No, I didn't read it as saying that I HAVE such a modem. I knew Franc was saying simply that ISA "hardware" non-PnP modems don't have drivers. But it does look like I misunderstood what he meant by the term "hardware" modem. Franc didn't define the term and, based on what you just wrote, it looks like the term has a more technical definition than I thought. That looks like the root of the problem. Perhaps you can fill in the details and explain precisely what is the difference between "hardware" and "soft" modems. BTW, my modem is a US Robotics Sportster 56K FaxModem. Based on that information, perhaps you can tell me what category it fits into. Thanks.
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