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#51
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New PC, ME with old BIOS
Mart wrote:
Mike wrote :- ... One thing it isn't is overheating! (see e-mail). g Not surprised when you added :- I woke this morning to see snow flakes 5cm (2") across! Environmentally friendly, 'green' cooling? - but not inside the house, I hope bg Well I have now succumbed and put the heating on. :-) It looks as if the problems on the other box are with a large RAID5 array. I was able to access its log from BING and there's no errors reported. When I first rebooted after the crash chkdsk ran on that array and found a couple of "small" problems but I fear its far worse. I couldn't get beyond a partial desktop in either Safe or Normal Mode before the box locked up. Has just happened again but this time got to a full desktop and was accessing the Event Logs when it locked again. Am going to let it run for a while in case it unlocks as the previous times this has happened I simply shut down. With 4x320GB drives making up the array (896GB) I might have lost up to 800GB of data. Grrrrrr. I think I may have to pull the box apart and start testing the individual drives making up the array. Mike |
#52
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New PC, ME with old BIOS
Well the box with the RAID5 is now back up and running and I am currently
verifying the RAID. I'll know in about 2½ hours whether it is damaged or not. By the time I managed to get the box up and running I'd lost all except the previous few minutes of entries in the system event log and have no record of what the earlier chkdsk might have done other than what I remember flashed by on the screen. Two of the four or five files mentioned are in a found.000 folder (both text files) and two of the others seem to be present but whether they are correct and usable I have yet to discover. I'm now trying to rake up 1TB of storage so I can pull off all the data on the RAID and perhaps rebuild but I'm hoping it won't come to that. Mike Mike M wrote: Well I have now succumbed and put the heating on. :-) It looks as if the problems on the other box are with a large RAID5 array. I was able to access its log from BING and there's no errors reported. When I first rebooted after the crash chkdsk ran on that array and found a couple of "small" problems but I fear its far worse. I couldn't get beyond a partial desktop in either Safe or Normal Mode before the box locked up. Has just happened again but this time got to a full desktop and was accessing the Event Logs when it locked again. Am going to let it run for a while in case it unlocks as the previous times this has happened I simply shut down. With 4x320GB drives making up the array (896GB) I might have lost up to 800GB of data. Grrrrrr. I think I may have to pull the box apart and start testing the individual drives making up the array. |
#53
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New PC, ME with old BIOS
Mart (and Mike):
You fellows have gone far beyond the call of duty and I appreciate it and don't want to impose too much farther. Let me be specific: My 98 CD came to me with a PC which was custom made by an 'authorized' assembler of some sort. It's a genuine Microsoft CD and on it is the legend "For distribution with a new PC only", which it was. My ME upgrade CD was given to me by some computer shop some 8-odd years ago, and is obviously a copy, not an original. However, I have not too long ago installed 98 in a VPC under my XP main system, and it accepts the codes. I didn't go on to ME, however. In the past, when I tried to install ME direct from the CD, it told me at the start that it could only be used to upgrade a 98 system. The scientist in me says "Keep on plugging away, find the missing .CAB and files, and make it work". The practical engineer in me says "You've spent too many man-hours, your own and other people's, when you have what is most likely a viable Plan B." I intend to have my guru with the nimble fingers disconnect the main HDD in my PC (because I want to install 98+ME in a safe manner) and unless you two think I'm too much of a coward, I intend to start with a "clean" 98+ME and will see if it takes. Mart wrote: Hi Bill, With further reference to your 5 missing files (which I'd only just spotted - sorry!), I've just been in contact with Mike and concluded that :- depending on how you set-up your original WinMe on the 'old' HDD (can't remember if you said you [over] installed it [a MS or OEM version?] onto an existing OEM [HP?] version of Win98) then the Folder (CABS or Install) MAY NOT EXIST - or be in a completely different location! From a very recent Clean installation I've just done of (MS not OEM) WinMe, where the installation files were copied to the HDD before actually installing WinMe from the HDD itself (The CD-ROM was 'faulty') I have found that WinMe doesn't copy the complete set of installation files to the CABS or Install folder at all, as it would if was installed from the CD. Always said that you learn something new every day on these WinMe NG's!! Is your WinMe CD an MS or OEM version? I take it your 98 CD is OEM. If WinMe CD is MS, and your 98 is a 'special' (compressed) OEM version, then WinMe might not accept the OEM CD as a proof of authenticity and therefore you may have to go down the Plan B (version A) route, i.e. fresh install 98 then attempt the WinMe update. Far too many variables keep creeping in to this 'simple issue' g Mart "Mart" wrote in message ... First of all, note Mikes reply (timed at 12:32 BST today) regarding the much simpler method of a clean install of WinMe - should you need to go down that route. But I don't think we've completely exhausted 'Plan A' - YET!! So I'll address the next items in-line :- Mart, thanks for coming back in. First let me jump down to the USB question. That was a memory slip; the monitor is on its own big multi-connector cable. Phew! - thank goodness for that g I've graduated to where my latest attempts have been with *NO* USB cables connected. Consider it as having only the essential cabling; I even unplugged the Ethernet connector. Indeed, ALL items *MUST* be disconnected. In Safe Mode, there are no errors and no conflicts. There are 4 entries for IDE controllers which I am unable to delete, and Mike says not to fret. Mike's quite correct and on hindsight, perhaps we should have warned you earlier. I didn't answer your query about display adapters and monitors because I think it was prompted by my incorrect association of USB with the monitor. Fair enough. The new PC came with one HDD, containing XP/Home in one partition, and HP's own maintenance and repair software in its "D" partition. I have never removed either of those partitions (nor would I). The way I run or attempt to run WinME is to interrupt the boot process and boot to the Slave drive (which is left over from my erstwhile PC). OK, thanks for that info. For now - assuming it has been physically removed and your WinMe HDD is the only one fitted, it won't be causing any issues. If you read Mike's posts, you'll see that, in shutting down ME, now, I always get an error window about MSGSRV32 where it hangs. OK, for the moment, that's to be expected and probably not too relevant. And in attempting to boot it always complains about 5 files that it can't find, that should be in C:\Windows\Options\CABS. Exactly what files can't it find? Please list all five. Mike had me check Registry to verify that that is where it's directed, and I verified that. It's not the Registry but rather the 'Path' which we are considering here. You need to search (in Safe Mode) for " *.CABS " and (hopefully) find a Folder containing about 20 or so .CAB files (e.g. WIN_15.CAB). Assuming those files can be found, we are (or should be) still in business. However, if you can't find them, then you are up the creek .. as Mike explained earlier and it is definately over to 'Plan B' (but do remember Mikes tip, no need to install 98) I'm pretty well convinced that HP has somehow made it impossible to use the OS on the old HDD even though it boots every time in Safe Mode. I'm about to consider taking another HDD and install Win98 clean on it, from Microsoft's own installation CD, and then upgrade it to ME with my ME-upgrade CD. I can copy back from the questionable HDD those files that I have on it. I don't like giving up on what you and Mike and I have spent so much time on, but maybe it *is* time to move on to "Plan B". See my previous paragraph. Mart snipped |
#54
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New PC, ME with old BIOS
snipped for brevity
Bill wrote :- I intend to start with a "clean" 98+ME and will see if it takes. Under the present circumstances, probably the best - certainly the quickest - option. If (hopefully) successful, don't forget to do the WinMe updates as soon as you are able (internet connection required) otherwise SR won't work. Further, as you intend to do this on yet another HDD, you can always re-visit the 'old' disk at your convenience. Good luck and keep us posted. Mart "William B. Lurie" wrote in message ... Mart (and Mike): You fellows have gone far beyond the call of duty and I appreciate it and don't want to impose too much farther. Let me be specific: My 98 CD came to me with a PC which was custom made by an 'authorized' assembler of some sort. It's a genuine Microsoft CD and on it is the legend "For distribution with a new PC only", which it was. My ME upgrade CD was given to me by some computer shop some 8-odd years ago, and is obviously a copy, not an original. However, I have not too long ago installed 98 in a VPC under my XP main system, and it accepts the codes. I didn't go on to ME, however. In the past, when I tried to install ME direct from the CD, it told me at the start that it could only be used to upgrade a 98 system. The scientist in me says "Keep on plugging away, find the missing .CAB and files, and make it work". The practical engineer in me says "You've spent too many man-hours, your own and other people's, when you have what is most likely a viable Plan B." I intend to have my guru with the nimble fingers disconnect the main HDD in my PC (because I want to install 98+ME in a safe manner) and unless you two think I'm too much of a coward, I intend to start with a "clean" 98+ME and will see if it takes. Mart wrote: Hi Bill, With further reference to your 5 missing files (which I'd only just spotted - sorry!), I've just been in contact with Mike and concluded that :- depending on how you set-up your original WinMe on the 'old' HDD (can't remember if you said you [over] installed it [a MS or OEM version?] onto an existing OEM [HP?] version of Win98) then the Folder (CABS or Install) MAY NOT EXIST - or be in a completely different location! From a very recent Clean installation I've just done of (MS not OEM) WinMe, where the installation files were copied to the HDD before actually installing WinMe from the HDD itself (The CD-ROM was 'faulty') I have found that WinMe doesn't copy the complete set of installation files to the CABS or Install folder at all, as it would if was installed from the CD. Always said that you learn something new every day on these WinMe NG's!! Is your WinMe CD an MS or OEM version? I take it your 98 CD is OEM. If WinMe CD is MS, and your 98 is a 'special' (compressed) OEM version, then WinMe might not accept the OEM CD as a proof of authenticity and therefore you may have to go down the Plan B (version A) route, i.e. fresh install 98 then attempt the WinMe update. Far too many variables keep creeping in to this 'simple issue' g Mart "Mart" wrote in message ... First of all, note Mikes reply (timed at 12:32 BST today) regarding the much simpler method of a clean install of WinMe - should you need to go down that route. But I don't think we've completely exhausted 'Plan A' - YET!! So I'll address the next items in-line :- Mart, thanks for coming back in. First let me jump down to the USB question. That was a memory slip; the monitor is on its own big multi-connector cable. Phew! - thank goodness for that g I've graduated to where my latest attempts have been with *NO* USB cables connected. Consider it as having only the essential cabling; I even unplugged the Ethernet connector. Indeed, ALL items *MUST* be disconnected. In Safe Mode, there are no errors and no conflicts. There are 4 entries for IDE controllers which I am unable to delete, and Mike says not to fret. Mike's quite correct and on hindsight, perhaps we should have warned you earlier. I didn't answer your query about display adapters and monitors because I think it was prompted by my incorrect association of USB with the monitor. Fair enough. The new PC came with one HDD, containing XP/Home in one partition, and HP's own maintenance and repair software in its "D" partition. I have never removed either of those partitions (nor would I). The way I run or attempt to run WinME is to interrupt the boot process and boot to the Slave drive (which is left over from my erstwhile PC). OK, thanks for that info. For now - assuming it has been physically removed and your WinMe HDD is the only one fitted, it won't be causing any issues. If you read Mike's posts, you'll see that, in shutting down ME, now, I always get an error window about MSGSRV32 where it hangs. OK, for the moment, that's to be expected and probably not too relevant. And in attempting to boot it always complains about 5 files that it can't find, that should be in C:\Windows\Options\CABS. Exactly what files can't it find? Please list all five. Mike had me check Registry to verify that that is where it's directed, and I verified that. It's not the Registry but rather the 'Path' which we are considering here. You need to search (in Safe Mode) for " *.CABS " and (hopefully) find a Folder containing about 20 or so .CAB files (e.g. WIN_15.CAB). Assuming those files can be found, we are (or should be) still in business. However, if you can't find them, then you are up the creek .. as Mike explained earlier and it is definately over to 'Plan B' (but do remember Mikes tip, no need to install 98) I'm pretty well convinced that HP has somehow made it impossible to use the OS on the old HDD even though it boots every time in Safe Mode. I'm about to consider taking another HDD and install Win98 clean on it, from Microsoft's own installation CD, and then upgrade it to ME with my ME-upgrade CD. I can copy back from the questionable HDD those files that I have on it. I don't like giving up on what you and Mike and I have spent so much time on, but maybe it *is* time to move on to "Plan B". See my previous paragraph. Mart snipped |
#55
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New PC, ME with old BIOS
Mike,
Not trying to tempt anything - but lock-ups couldn't be due to RAM issues by any chance? 2 1/2 Hrs almost due - good luck. Mart "Mike M" wrote in message ... Well the box with the RAID5 is now back up and running and I am currently verifying the RAID. I'll know in about 2½ hours whether it is damaged or not. By the time I managed to get the box up and running I'd lost all except the previous few minutes of entries in the system event log and have no record of what the earlier chkdsk might have done other than what I remember flashed by on the screen. Two of the four or five files mentioned are in a found.000 folder (both text files) and two of the others seem to be present but whether they are correct and usable I have yet to discover. I'm now trying to rake up 1TB of storage so I can pull off all the data on the RAID and perhaps rebuild but I'm hoping it won't come to that. Mike Mike M wrote: Well I have now succumbed and put the heating on. :-) It looks as if the problems on the other box are with a large RAID5 array. I was able to access its log from BING and there's no errors reported. When I first rebooted after the crash chkdsk ran on that array and found a couple of "small" problems but I fear its far worse. I couldn't get beyond a partial desktop in either Safe or Normal Mode before the box locked up. Has just happened again but this time got to a full desktop and was accessing the Event Logs when it locked again. Am going to let it run for a while in case it unlocks as the previous times this has happened I simply shut down. With 4x320GB drives making up the array (896GB) I might have lost up to 800GB of data. Grrrrrr. I think I may have to pull the box apart and start testing the individual drives making up the array. |
#56
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New PC, ME with old BIOS
Mart wrote:
Not trying to tempt anything - but lock-ups couldn't be due to RAM issues by any chance? 2 1/2 Hrs almost due - good luck. Mart, Sorry about hijacking a branch of this thread. I don't think the problem is with the RAID array, the errors I saw were, I think, simply collateral damage following the crash. I don't think the problem is RAM either as I have since had the box crash (many times) and once got to see a BSOD which suggested the error is related to nvatabus.sys (the box uses an nForce4 chipset) and this driver is used by both the PATA and SATA controllers. The drives on the box are as follows: IDE Primary channel 0 - 80GB PATA drive. Two partitions only visible when running, Temp (8GB, E:\) and a small Data (30GB, F:\). IDE Primary channel 1 - nothing IDE Secondary channel 1 - DVD/W IDE Secondary channel 2 - CDR/W SATA Two SATA 1 drives configured as RAID 0 (drives C:\, D:\ and G:\) There is also a HighPoint PCIe RocketRAID controller running as RAID5 with 4x320GB drives (H:\). The problem seems to be around the IDE area. "Hiding" E:\ and F:\ (I use BING as a boot manager and this allows me to hide individual partitions) I can boot the system and chkdsk runs clean on C:\, D;\, G:\ and H:\. but the system can hang. Disabling the IDE/PATA channels in the bios allows the system to boot and I don't think it hangs. So where's the problem? The chipset/motherboard or the drives? That's the mystery. Running Seagate's SeaTools from DOS gives the 80GB PATA drive a clean bill of health but attempting to run chkdsk on F:\ with the drive visible hangs the system. So is the problem one of the optical devices? The answer is I simply don't know and don't think I will until I open the case and start pulling out bits. :-( Fortunately E:\ is what is says, Temp, and contains nothing of value, just a couple of files pulled down today. F:\ isn't that critical either containing little although what it has includes the Desktop and a few other system objects (Videos, Pictures and Music) but those I think are empty. Its main content are some data intensive programs such as MapPoint (Europe and n.America), TechNet (a year old copy at that) that I prefer not to have on C:\ al of which can be fairly easily reinstalled if necessary. I just wish I knew what the root cause of the problem is but it looks as if the problem isn't going to cause me the loss of much if any data. Mike |
#57
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New PC, ME with old BIOS
Mike wrote :-
Sorry about hijacking a branch of this thread. Yes, my fault too g I don't think the problem is with the RAID array, .. etc., Not sure about RAID, never been there ... but do wish you the best of luck with it. I'm sure you'll get there - eventually! Better let the hijackers hijack out of it g Mart snipped |
#58
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New PC, ME with old BIOS
Mart wrote:
Mike wrote :- Sorry about hijacking a branch of this thread. Yes, my fault too g I don't think the problem is with the RAID array, .. etc., Not sure about RAID, never been there ... but do wish you the best of luck with it. I'm sure you'll get there - eventually! Better let the hijackers hijack out of it g Mart Hey, fellows, a little bit of personal chit-chat between friends doesn't do any harm and personalizes the medium. I'm all for it....and, BTW, I intend to try "Plan B" as soon as I can spare the time, possibly even today. |
#59
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New PC, ME with old BIOS
William B. Lurie wrote:
Mart (and Mike): You fellows have gone far beyond the call of duty and I appreciate it and don't want to impose too much farther. Let me be specific: My 98 CD came to me with a PC which was custom made by an 'authorized' assembler of some sort. It's a genuine Microsoft CD and on it is the legend "For distribution with a new PC only", which it was. My ME upgrade CD was given to me by some computer shop some 8-odd years ago, and is obviously a copy, not an original. However, I have not too long ago installed 98 in a VPC under my XP main system, and it accepts the codes. I didn't go on to ME, however. In the past, when I tried to install ME direct from the CD, it told me at the start that it could only be used to upgrade a 98 system. The scientist in me says "Keep on plugging away, find the missing .CAB and files, and make it work". The practical engineer in me says "You've spent too many man-hours, your own and other people's, when you have what is most likely a viable Plan B." I intend to have my guru with the nimble fingers disconnect the main HDD in my PC (because I want to install 98+ME in a safe manner) and unless you two think I'm too much of a coward, I intend to start with a "clean" 98+ME and will see if it takes. Mart wrote: Hi Bill, With further reference to your 5 missing files (which I'd only just spotted - sorry!), I've just been in contact with Mike and concluded that :- depending on how you set-up your original WinMe on the 'old' HDD (can't remember if you said you [over] installed it [a MS or OEM version?] onto an existing OEM [HP?] version of Win98) then the Folder (CABS or Install) MAY NOT EXIST - or be in a completely different location! From a very recent Clean installation I've just done of (MS not OEM) WinMe, where the installation files were copied to the HDD before actually installing WinMe from the HDD itself (The CD-ROM was 'faulty') I have found that WinMe doesn't copy the complete set of installation files to the CABS or Install folder at all, as it would if was installed from the CD. Always said that you learn something new every day on these WinMe NG's!! Is your WinMe CD an MS or OEM version? I take it your 98 CD is OEM. If WinMe CD is MS, and your 98 is a 'special' (compressed) OEM version, then WinMe might not accept the OEM CD as a proof of authenticity and therefore you may have to go down the Plan B (version A) route, i.e. fresh install 98 then attempt the WinMe update. Far too many variables keep creeping in to this 'simple issue' g Mart "Mart" wrote in message ... First of all, note Mikes reply (timed at 12:32 BST today) regarding the much simpler method of a clean install of WinMe - should you need to go down that route. But I don't think we've completely exhausted 'Plan A' - YET!! So I'll address the next items in-line :- Mart, thanks for coming back in. First let me jump down to the USB question. That was a memory slip; the monitor is on its own big multi-connector cable. Phew! - thank goodness for that g I've graduated to where my latest attempts have been with *NO* USB cables connected. Consider it as having only the essential cabling; I even unplugged the Ethernet connector. Indeed, ALL items *MUST* be disconnected. In Safe Mode, there are no errors and no conflicts. There are 4 entries for IDE controllers which I am unable to delete, and Mike says not to fret. Mike's quite correct and on hindsight, perhaps we should have warned you earlier. I didn't answer your query about display adapters and monitors because I think it was prompted by my incorrect association of USB with the monitor. Fair enough. The new PC came with one HDD, containing XP/Home in one partition, and HP's own maintenance and repair software in its "D" partition. I have never removed either of those partitions (nor would I). The way I run or attempt to run WinME is to interrupt the boot process and boot to the Slave drive (which is left over from my erstwhile PC). OK, thanks for that info. For now - assuming it has been physically removed and your WinMe HDD is the only one fitted, it won't be causing any issues. If you read Mike's posts, you'll see that, in shutting down ME, now, I always get an error window about MSGSRV32 where it hangs. OK, for the moment, that's to be expected and probably not too relevant. And in attempting to boot it always complains about 5 files that it can't find, that should be in C:\Windows\Options\CABS. Exactly what files can't it find? Please list all five. Mike had me check Registry to verify that that is where it's directed, and I verified that. It's not the Registry but rather the 'Path' which we are considering here. You need to search (in Safe Mode) for " *.CABS " and (hopefully) find a Folder containing about 20 or so .CAB files (e.g. WIN_15.CAB). Assuming those files can be found, we are (or should be) still in business. However, if you can't find them, then you are up the creek .. as Mike explained earlier and it is definately over to 'Plan B' (but do remember Mikes tip, no need to install 98) I'm pretty well convinced that HP has somehow made it impossible to use the OS on the old HDD even though it boots every time in Safe Mode. I'm about to consider taking another HDD and install Win98 clean on it, from Microsoft's own installation CD, and then upgrade it to ME with my ME-upgrade CD. I can copy back from the questionable HDD those files that I have on it. I don't like giving up on what you and Mike and I have spent so much time on, but maybe it *is* time to move on to "Plan B". See my previous paragraph. Mart snipped Okay, Mike and Mart, I asked about the SATA connectors, spread the cabling to get my arthritic fingers in there, pulled the main HDD power connector, connected the Slave, and started to install 98 from CD. I then had only the blank 7.5 GB drive powered up. It first formatted the 7.5 GB drive, and proceeded to load the files, everything looked good, and it got to 21 minutes to go, and it said it had to restart. Okay, I expected that, and I expected the prompt about "Hard Disk or CD" and from experience, I knew that if I said CD Rom, it would go back to load all the files again. So I selected Boot from Hard Disk, and it clunked and mumbled and came up with "Sorry, you don't have enough memory" (I think), "Go back and take some stuff out of your autoexec". Sorry to bother you with such an elementary question, but I have 1.5 GB of RAM and this "new" HDD is 7.5GB, has *nothing* on it, and........ how do I get out of this CATCH-22? |
#60
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New PC, ME with old BIOS
Your problem is 1.5GB of RAM.
In truth no Win 9x operating system is suited to your system since I now see you mention that it has sata drives for which you will have to try and find Win Me compatible drivers or rather Win 9x compatible chipset drivers for your motherboard. Turning to your RAM, the error message you mention is to be expected. Win Me, like all Win 9x operating systems, can support and use up to 2GB of memory although there are a number of caveats and exceptions to that details of which are contained in the following Microsoft Knowledge Base articles with the first essential reading where more than 512MB of memory is installed. For more details see: MS KB 253912 - ""Out of Memory" Error Messages with Large Amounts of RAM Installed" (http://support.microsoft.com?kbid=253912). The reason is that allocating more than 512MB of RAM to vcache will exhaust all available upper memory addresses and thus prevent them being used for other purposes. This problem is easily fixed as follows: To limit vcache, open system.ini and add the lines [VCache] MaxFileCache=512000 Note that this will still mean that all memory is available to applications but is simply limiting the amount used as virtual cache memory. MS KB 296773 - "Computer May Not Hibernate with More Than 192 MB of Memory" (http://support.microsoft.com?kbid=296773). This makes reference to an updated file vmm.vxd. Unfortunately due to Win Me being out of support this file can no longer be obtained from Microsoft. MS KB 304943 - "Computer May Reboot Continuously with More Than 1.5 GB of RAM" (http://support.microsoft.com?kbid=304943). -- Mike Maltby William B. Lurie wrote: Okay, Mike and Mart, I asked about the SATA connectors, spread the cabling to get my arthritic fingers in there, pulled the main HDD power connector, connected the Slave, and started to install 98 from CD. I then had only the blank 7.5 GB drive powered up. It first formatted the 7.5 GB drive, and proceeded to load the files, everything looked good, and it got to 21 minutes to go, and it said it had to restart. Okay, I expected that, and I expected the prompt about "Hard Disk or CD" and from experience, I knew that if I said CD Rom, it would go back to load all the files again. So I selected Boot from Hard Disk, and it clunked and mumbled and came up with "Sorry, you don't have enough memory" (I think), "Go back and take some stuff out of your autoexec". Sorry to bother you with such an elementary question, but I have 1.5 GB of RAM and this "new" HDD is 7.5GB, has *nothing* on it, and........ how do I get out of this CATCH-22? |
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