A Windows 98 & ME forum. Win98banter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » Win98banter forum » Windows 98 » General
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

BIOS upgrades - reflashing the BIOS



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old March 12th 08, 06:02 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
Bill in Co.
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 1,335
Default BIOS upgrades - reflashing the BIOS

Just spent an "interesting" (to put it mildly!) weekend on this project to
enable a microprocessor upgrade. I wouldn't recommend it for the
faint-hearted, suffice it to say, or you might end up with a paperweight.
:-)

You know, it wouldn't be quite so bad, except that in some cases, there is
no reverse path available (i..e, it's a one way trip) - which seems
unforgiveable, on their part!

My question is: why do these BIOS manufacturers sometimes make it so damn
difficult to upgrade/downgrade or go back to a previous version (especially
when going from one manufacturer to one its subsidiaries, or vice versa
(like Dell and Intel)?

And not only that, but even block certain upgrades with certain chips, just
out of self-centered arrogance on their part (and not due to real chip
limitations)?


  #2  
Old March 12th 08, 07:59 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
MEB[_2_]
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 1,626
Default BIOS upgrades - reflashing the BIOS


"Bill in Co." wrote in message
...
| Just spent an "interesting" (to put it mildly!) weekend on this project to
| enable a microprocessor upgrade. I wouldn't recommend it for the
| faint-hearted, suffice it to say, or you might end up with a paperweight.
| :-)
|
| You know, it wouldn't be quite so bad, except that in some cases, there is
| no reverse path available (i..e, it's a one way trip) - which seems
| unforgiveable, on their part!
|
| My question is: why do these BIOS manufacturers sometimes make it so damn
| difficult to upgrade/downgrade or go back to a previous version
(especially
| when going from one manufacturer to one its subsidiaries, or vice versa
| (like Dell and Intel)?
|
| And not only that, but even block certain upgrades with certain chips,
just
| out of self-centered arrogance on their part (and not due to real chip
| limitations)?

I can definitely relate to that type of experience. Made a few
paper-weights in the early days, a couple my fault [like flashing with the
wrong BIOS or leaving the flash disk in the wrong computer and rebooting],
some the flash tool or a badly created upgrade.

Generally, the preliminaries are always to set the BIOS back to defaults
prior to any flash [unless you're over-clocking].
Regarding the flash, if not BIOS instituted {newer boards}, the separate
flash tool/file usually has a switch to save the present BIOS to a bin or
other file. Sadly many make that information hard to find.
If this is done, then one can roll-back to the older IF you also over-write
the Boot code.

--

MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
_________


  #3  
Old March 12th 08, 09:03 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
Bill in Co.
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 1,335
Default BIOS upgrades - reflashing the BIOS

MEB wrote:
"Bill in Co." wrote in message
...
Just spent an "interesting" (to put it mildly!) weekend on this project
to
enable a microprocessor upgrade. I wouldn't recommend it for the
faint-hearted, suffice it to say, or you might end up with a paperweight.
:-)

You know, it wouldn't be quite so bad, except that in some cases, there
is
no reverse path available (i..e, it's a one way trip) - which seems
unforgiveable, on their part!

My question is: why do these BIOS manufacturers sometimes make it so
damn
difficult to upgrade/downgrade or go back to a previous version
(especially
when going from one manufacturer to one its subsidiaries, or vice versa
(like Dell and Intel)?

And not only that, but even block certain upgrades with certain chips,
just
out of self-centered arrogance on their part (and not due to real chip
limitations)?


I can definitely relate to that type of experience. Made a few
paper-weights in the early days, a couple my fault [like flashing with the
wrong BIOS or leaving the flash disk in the wrong computer and rebooting],
some the flash tool or a badly created upgrade.


I bet that was *quite* annoying, too.

Generally, the preliminaries are always to set the BIOS back to defaults
prior to any flash [unless you're over-clocking].


Also, sometimes it appears that *after* a flash is done, one may have to
first load its defaults BEFORE trying to reconfigure it for your system.
Learned that the hard way, but at least I didn't end up with a paperweight
(but it was a close call, at some points).

Actually, at a later point in time, it wouldn't boot into Windows, so I had
created a DOS-only machine at that point. (Nice, really nice).
Still, it was better than being locked out of even being able to get in and
set up the BIOS for the system (it demanded a password at that point).

Finally got this all resolved. (Sigh of relief). What a weekend,
though. It can be a bit hair-raising, to say the least, since you really
are treading on the razor's edge in this territory. :-).

Regarding the flash, if not BIOS instituted {newer boards}, the separate
flash tool/file usually has a switch to save the present BIOS to a bin or
other file. Sadly many make that information hard to find.
If this is done, then one can roll-back to the older IF you also
over-write
the Boot code.


Never found that specific documentation, but I sure looked around a bit. I
don't think its an option for all of them, though. Of course, I am dealing
with an older board here, circa 2000.


  #4  
Old March 12th 08, 05:24 PM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
MEB[_2_]
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 1,626
Default BIOS upgrades - reflashing the BIOS




"Bill in Co." wrote in message
...
| MEB wrote:
| "Bill in Co." wrote in message
| ...
| Just spent an "interesting" (to put it mildly!) weekend on this project
| to
| enable a microprocessor upgrade. I wouldn't recommend it for the
| faint-hearted, suffice it to say, or you might end up with a
paperweight.
| :-)
|
| You know, it wouldn't be quite so bad, except that in some cases, there
| is
| no reverse path available (i..e, it's a one way trip) - which seems
| unforgiveable, on their part!
|
| My question is: why do these BIOS manufacturers sometimes make it so
| damn
| difficult to upgrade/downgrade or go back to a previous version
| (especially
| when going from one manufacturer to one its subsidiaries, or vice versa
| (like Dell and Intel)?
|
| And not only that, but even block certain upgrades with certain chips,
| just
| out of self-centered arrogance on their part (and not due to real chip
| limitations)?
|
| I can definitely relate to that type of experience. Made a few
| paper-weights in the early days, a couple my fault [like flashing with
the
| wrong BIOS or leaving the flash disk in the wrong computer and
rebooting],
| some the flash tool or a badly created upgrade.
|
| I bet that was *quite* annoying, too.

More than annoying, my mistakes were costly, but getting the manufacturers
to admit that THEY had screwed up was a study in $technical war$.

|
| Generally, the preliminaries are always to set the BIOS back to defaults
| prior to any flash [unless you're over-clocking].
|
| Also, sometimes it appears that *after* a flash is done, one may have to
| first load its defaults BEFORE trying to reconfigure it for your system.
| Learned that the hard way, but at least I didn't end up with a paperweight
| (but it was a close call, at some points).

Right, don't set ANYTHING after that first reboot, but SAVE the CMOS
settings, reboot, then carefully walk through the prior specialty
settings.ONE AT A TIME. And this because, these may also have been modified
OR changed.

|
| Actually, at a later point in time, it wouldn't boot into Windows, so I
had
| created a DOS-only machine at that point. (Nice, really nice).
| Still, it was better than being locked out of even being able to get in
and
| set up the BIOS for the system (it demanded a password at that point).

Oh now that's interesting, a defaulted PASSWORD,,, so what BIOS/motherboard
was this?

|
| Finally got this all resolved. (Sigh of relief). What a weekend,
| though. It can be a bit hair-raising, to say the least, since you really
| are treading on the razor's edge in this territory. :-).
|
| Regarding the flash, if not BIOS instituted {newer boards}, the separate
| flash tool/file usually has a switch to save the present BIOS to a bin
or
| other file. Sadly many make that information hard to find.
| If this is done, then one can roll-back to the older IF you also
| over-write
| the Boot code.
|
| Never found that specific documentation, but I sure looked around a bit.
I
| don't think its an option for all of them, though. Of course, I am
dealing
| with an older board here, circa 2000.
|

Sounds like an old Phoenix or AMI BIOS.

--

MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
_________


  #5  
Old March 12th 08, 08:42 PM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
Franc Zabkar
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 1,702
Default BIOS upgrades - reflashing the BIOS

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 02:03:27 -0600, "Bill in Co."
put finger to keyboard and composed:

Also, sometimes it appears that *after* a flash is done, one may have to
first load its defaults BEFORE trying to reconfigure it for your system.


The "extended" CMOS RAM (byte 65 and above) contains various chipset
register settings, eg memory timings, FSB settings, peripheral
configuration info, etc. Any RAM location can have any function as
defined by the BIOS code. For example, there is no guarantee that BIOS
version 2 will store the SDRAM memory timings at the same CMOS RAM
location as BIOS version 1, so one could expect a black screen during
the first POST after a BIOS flash. Clearing the CMOS RAM and reverting
to defaults circumvents this potential problem.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
  #6  
Old March 12th 08, 08:50 PM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
Bill in Co.
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 1,335
Default BIOS upgrades - reflashing the BIOS

MEB wrote:
"Bill in Co." wrote in message
...
MEB wrote:
"Bill in Co." wrote in message
...
Just spent an "interesting" (to put it mildly!) weekend on this project
to
enable a microprocessor upgrade. I wouldn't recommend it for the
faint-hearted, suffice it to say, or you might end up with a
paperweight.
:-)

You know, it wouldn't be quite so bad, except that in some cases, there
is
no reverse path available (i..e, it's a one way trip) - which seems
unforgiveable, on their part!

My question is: why do these BIOS manufacturers sometimes make it so
damn
difficult to upgrade/downgrade or go back to a previous version
(especially
when going from one manufacturer to one its subsidiaries, or vice versa
(like Dell and Intel)?

And not only that, but even block certain upgrades with certain chips,
just out of self-centered arrogance on their part (and not due to real
chip
limitations)?

I can definitely relate to that type of experience. Made a few
paper-weights in the early days, a couple my fault [like flashing with
the
wrong BIOS or leaving the flash disk in the wrong computer and
rebooting],
some the flash tool or a badly created upgrade.


I bet that was *quite* annoying, too.


More than annoying, my mistakes were costly, but getting the manufacturers
to admit that THEY had screwed up was a study in $technical war$.


Generally, the preliminaries are always to set the BIOS back to defaults
prior to any flash [unless you're over-clocking].


Also, sometimes it appears that *after* a flash is done, one may have to
first load its defaults BEFORE trying to reconfigure it for your system.
Learned that the hard way, but at least I didn't end up with a
paperweight
(but it was a close call, at some points).


Right, don't set ANYTHING after that first reboot, but SAVE the CMOS
settings, reboot, then carefully walk through the prior specialty
settings.ONE AT A TIME. And this because, these may also have been
modified
OR changed.


Actually, at a later point in time, it wouldn't boot into Windows, so I
had
created a DOS-only machine at that point. (Nice, really nice).
Still, it was better than being locked out of even being able to get in
and
set up the BIOS for the system (it demanded a password at that point).


Oh now that's interesting, a defaulted PASSWORD,,, so what
BIOS/motherboard
was this?


(This is for my Dell 4100 computer, with Windows98SE (circa year 2000 or
so):

The BIOS upgrade was Intel P10 (actually EA81510A.86A.0046.P10), and the
motherboard is (Dell) Intel D815EEA.

But the problem was apparently created because when I first flashed the BIOS
and then booted up, I did NOT initially select the option to load the
Defaults (but I did try changing some of the settings in there anyway).
Big mistake. After I rebooted, and tried get into BIOS to fix things up, it
asked me for a password (real nice, I'll tell ya!! And I tried a few
entries including just CR, and nothing worked).

Finally, I found the way out of this hole by temporarily moving the BIOS
jumper on the motherboard to the recovery or maintenance mode position, so
that when I rebooted, I *was* finally able to get into BIOS, and change the
settings to the proper values, and no password was required.

Now the microprocessor upgrade (PowerLeap) works great, and the only problem
I have is that I cannot select Ultra DMA Mode 5 in the BIOS, as Mode 4 is as
high as it goes in the list. Bummer.

Whether or not that means I am really locked into Ultra Mode 4, or just that
the BIOS can't tell what is actually available for my system (and Mode 5
was, in the previous Dell BIOS), I don't know for sure. But I'm hoping I
am running in Ultra Mode 5 (despite what the BIOS setting says).

I probably should look for some utility that actually can report the truth
(and not just what the BIOS screen allows me to select there), as my system
IS capable of running in Ultra Mode 5. (And the newer P11 Intel BIOS
recognizes that, but it is incompatible with this microprocessor upgrade -
already BTDT).


Finally got this all resolved. (Sigh of relief). What a weekend,
though. It can be a bit hair-raising, to say the least, since you
really
are treading on the razor's edge in this territory. :-).

Regarding the flash, if not BIOS instituted {newer boards}, the separate
flash tool/file usually has a switch to save the present BIOS to a bin
or
other file. Sadly many make that information hard to find.
If this is done, then one can roll-back to the older IF you also
over-write
the Boot code.


Never found that specific documentation, but I sure looked around a bit.
I
don't think its an option for all of them, though. Of course, I am
dealing
with an older board here, circa 2000.


Sounds like an old Phoenix or AMI BIOS.


per above...


  #7  
Old March 12th 08, 09:19 PM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
Bill in Co.
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 1,335
Default BIOS upgrades - reflashing the BIOS

Franc Zabkar wrote:
On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 02:03:27 -0600, "Bill in Co."
put finger to keyboard and composed:

Also, sometimes it appears that *after* a flash is done, one may have to
first load its defaults BEFORE trying to reconfigure it for your system.


The "extended" CMOS RAM (byte 65 and above) contains various chipset
register settings, eg memory timings, FSB settings, peripheral
configuration info, etc. Any RAM location can have any function as
defined by the BIOS code. For example, there is no guarantee that BIOS
version 2 will store the SDRAM memory timings at the same CMOS RAM
location as BIOS version 1, so one could expect a black screen during
the first POST after a BIOS flash. Clearing the CMOS RAM and reverting
to defaults circumvents this potential problem.

- Franc Zabkar


Thanks for that info, Frank. I think I should take a look into it a bit
more.

And I also need to figure out how to get back to Ultra DMA Mode 5, since
that option wasn't available in this current BIOS. (Ultra DMA Mode 4 was as
high as it goes, or at least as it shows up in its config list). I'm not
sure if that means I'm stuck in Ultra Mode 4, or just that the BIOS doesn't
know any better, since I *do* know I was able to get it in the other BIOS
(i.e., the HD's support it). But this is the only BIOS version I can use,
for this specific microprocessor upgrade.


  #8  
Old March 12th 08, 10:52 PM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
Franc Zabkar
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 1,702
Default BIOS upgrades - reflashing the BIOS

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 13:50:46 -0600, "Bill in Co."
put finger to keyboard and composed:

I probably should look for some utility that actually can report the truth
(and not just what the BIOS screen allows me to select there), as my system
IS capable of running in Ultra Mode 5. (And the newer P11 Intel BIOS
recognizes that, but it is incompatible with this microprocessor upgrade -
already BTDT).


How about SmartUDM? It's a DOS application, so it should tell you how
the drive is configured after the POST.

Here are some example reports from my PCs:

http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/SmartUDM/120GB.RPT

HDD 1 Model: ST3120026A (Athlon XP 2500 CPU)

PIO Mode Support: 4
SW DMA Mode Support: None
MW DMA Mode Support: 2, Active: None
UDMA Mode Support: 5 (UltraDMA/100), Active: 5

http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/SmartUDM/13GB.RPT

HDD 1 Model: ST313021A (socket 7 motherboard)

PIO Mode Support: 4
SW DMA Mode Support: None
MW DMA Mode Support: 2, Active: None
UDMA Mode Support: 4 (UltraDMA/66), Active: 2

http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/SmartUDM/6GB.RPT

HDD 2 Model: FUJITSU MPE3064AT (Athlon XP 2500, IIRC)

PIO Mode Support: 4
SW DMA Mode Support: None
MW DMA Mode Support: 2, Active: None
UDMA Mode Support: 4 (UltraDMA/66), Active: 4

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
  #9  
Old March 12th 08, 11:14 PM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
Franc Zabkar
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 1,702
Default BIOS upgrades - reflashing the BIOS

On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 08:52:10 +1100, Franc Zabkar
put finger to keyboard and composed:

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 13:50:46 -0600, "Bill in Co."
put finger to keyboard and composed:

I probably should look for some utility that actually can report the truth
(and not just what the BIOS screen allows me to select there), as my system
IS capable of running in Ultra Mode 5. (And the newer P11 Intel BIOS
recognizes that, but it is incompatible with this microprocessor upgrade -
already BTDT).


How about SmartUDM? It's a DOS application, so it should tell you how
the drive is configured after the POST.


Everest Home Edition (for Windows) produces the following report for a
Fujitsu MPF3204AT in a socket 7 box:

Max. PIO Transfer Mode PIO 4
Max. UDMA Transfer Mode UDMA 4 (ATA-66)
Active UDMA Transfer Mode UDMA 2 (ATA-33)

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
  #10  
Old March 13th 08, 04:53 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
Bill in Co.
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 1,335
Default BIOS upgrades - reflashing the BIOS

Franc Zabkar wrote:
On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 08:52:10 +1100, Franc Zabkar
put finger to keyboard and composed:

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 13:50:46 -0600, "Bill in Co."
put finger to keyboard and composed:

I probably should look for some utility that actually can report the
truth
(and not just what the BIOS screen allows me to select there), as my
system
IS capable of running in Ultra Mode 5. (And the newer P11 Intel BIOS
recognizes that, but it is incompatible with this microprocessor
upgrade -
already BTDT).


How about SmartUDM? It's a DOS application, so it should tell you how
the drive is configured after the POST.


Everest Home Edition (for Windows) produces the following report for a
Fujitsu MPF3204AT in a socket 7 box:

Max. PIO Transfer Mode PIO 4
Max. UDMA Transfer Mode UDMA 4 (ATA-66)
Active UDMA Transfer Mode UDMA 2 (ATA-33)

- Franc Zabkar


Thanks, Frank. I'll look into both of them (and I already have an older
freebie version of Everest (1.51)

Hmmm. ...let's see...
OK, found it in Everest, under the "Storage, ATA" tab, I get:

Max. PIO Transfer Mode: PIO 4
Max. UDMA Transfer Mode: UDMA 5 (ATA-100)
Active UDMA Transfer Mode: UDMA 5 (ATA-100)

....which sounds encouraging. I think it's this high because I'm using
the 80 conductor cables, and my WD EIDE drives support it, and, as I recall,
I installed some Intel software update at one point in time (but NOT that
infamous one, which trashed my system on another date (and there was one of
those, shown as a recommended update, on the MS site, but they later removed
it).

So I'm wondering why yours is a bit lower above, and I expect it's due to
some condition mentioned above not being met (or perhaps a really old BIOS)?

But at any rate, evidently this BIOS doesn't show Ultra Mode 5 (because it
is too dated), but apparently the system IS running with Ultra Mode 5
capability.

I should probably try out the DOS version to really confirm this, too.

Thanks.


 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Win.me can't get to BIOS (F1 key) [email protected] General 1 June 12th 06 01:24 AM
EZ-BIOS SS General 5 December 22nd 04 06:10 PM
bios help elocm General 4 November 12th 04 10:26 PM
Bios upgrades Mikep Improving Performance 8 September 30th 04 08:29 PM
AMI BIOS Doughy General 1 July 31st 04 09:38 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 Win98banter.
The comments are property of their posters.