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#11
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gotta say.. so long ME
"webster72n" wrote..
To echo Mike, sorry to see you leave. Suppose we'll find you at "nntp.aioe.org" under "alt.os.linux.ubuntu"? Myself I plan to keep ME and run ubuntu as dual boot, if that's possible. There's no reson for me to "trash" WinME, since it's running quite nicely. I envy your experience with ME. For the most part, I was able to tame ME to the point where it actually seemed like a reliable OS. However, eversince I added more ram and a new AGP (DVI-capable) video card, ME has not been so reliable anymore. But I refuse to regress with less ram and no DVI support. I want to continue to upgrade my pc box with a few more things when required - maybe even Firewire. An LCD monitor with DVI inputs is a next priority. Funny you should mention aioe.org. A few days prior I discovered that fine server! I'll be spending a lot more time in Linux ng's or forums of all kinds, that's for sure. |
#12
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gotta say.. so long ME
"webster72n" wrote..
Just one more question before you leave, Ogg: Did you install Ubuntu (and I assume that's what you did) all by itself, or in combination with another OS? I still plan to be subscribed to this ng, but I don't envision lurking here that often anymore. I believe that I have exhausted all I can out of my ME pc over the last 7 years. Regarding Ubuntu.. sofar I have only used it via Live CD boot on my upgraded ME pc. I have, however, made a full install of it over my old 40gig hdd which had my original ME system. That's the hdd that ME eventually scandisk'd almost at every boot, and that also had an occasional clunking sound. But, with Ubuntu, that hdd is operating absolutely fine! Maybe that has something to do with the way Windows causes fragmentation? Looking forward to saying goodbye to Windows scandisk and constant defragmentation maintenance. |
#13
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gotta say.. so long ME
Ogg wrote:
"webster72n" wrote.. Just one more question before you leave, Ogg: Did you install Ubuntu (and I assume that's what you did) all by itself, or in combination with another OS? I still plan to be subscribed to this ng, but I don't envision lurking here that often anymore. I believe that I have exhausted all I can out of my ME pc over the last 7 years. Regarding Ubuntu.. sofar I have only used it via Live CD boot on my upgraded ME pc. I have, however, made a full install of it over my old 40gig hdd which had my original ME system. That's the hdd that ME eventually scandisk'd almost at every boot, and that also had an occasional clunking sound. But, with Ubuntu, that hdd is operating absolutely fine! Maybe that has something to do with the way Windows causes fragmentation? Looking forward to saying goodbye to Windows scandisk and constant defragmentation maintenance. What til you see Beryl ;-) nVidia cards are more Linux friendly than ATI, btw. The difference between Vista Aero and Beryl on Ubuntu: http://youtube.com/watch?v=xC5uEe5OzNQ Alias |
#14
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gotta say.. so long ME
Thanks for the feedback, Ogg.
Have a nice journey Harry. "Ogg" wrote in message ... "webster72n" wrote.. Just one more question before you leave, Ogg: Did you install Ubuntu (and I assume that's what you did) all by itself, or in combination with another OS? I still plan to be subscribed to this ng, but I don't envision lurking here that often anymore. I believe that I have exhausted all I can out of my ME pc over the last 7 years. Regarding Ubuntu.. sofar I have only used it via Live CD boot on my upgraded ME pc. I have, however, made a full install of it over my old 40gig hdd which had my original ME system. That's the hdd that ME eventually scandisk'd almost at every boot, and that also had an occasional clunking sound. But, with Ubuntu, that hdd is operating absolutely fine! Maybe that has something to do with the way Windows causes fragmentation? Looking forward to saying goodbye to Windows scandisk and constant defragmentation maintenance. |
#15
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gotta say.. so long ME
Ogg wrote :-
.... fragmentation? Looking forward to saying goodbye to Windows scandisk and constant defragmentation maintenance. Hmm .. Not *strictly* true - but I can sure see its appeal. See :- http://www.linux-sxs.org/housekeeping/frag.html I've only tried running Ubuntu from the CD (not yet committed [installed] it to HDD) on four different machines and it is certainly 'different'. The jury is still out here, but was pleasantly surprised (and impressed) to see that it recognised quite a bit of my hardware - and especially USB stuff (inc. router) and my (laptop) PCMCIA WiFi card which gave (almost - just needed to input my WEP code) instant access to the net. However, I'm not yet ready to abandon WinMe. Suspect much more testing needs to be done first - esp. locating drivers for 'older' hardware. Roll-on the long winter nights - OTOH, I might just get myself a life g Mart "Ogg" wrote in message ... "webster72n" wrote.. Just one more question before you leave, Ogg: Did you install Ubuntu (and I assume that's what you did) all by itself, or in combination with another OS? I still plan to be subscribed to this ng, but I don't envision lurking here that often anymore. I believe that I have exhausted all I can out of my ME pc over the last 7 years. Regarding Ubuntu.. sofar I have only used it via Live CD boot on my upgraded ME pc. I have, however, made a full install of it over my old 40gig hdd which had my original ME system. That's the hdd that ME eventually scandisk'd almost at every boot, and that also had an occasional clunking sound. But, with Ubuntu, that hdd is operating absolutely fine! Maybe that has something to do with the way Windows causes fragmentation? Looking forward to saying goodbye to Windows scandisk and constant defragmentation maintenance. |
#16
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gotta say.. so long ME
Hi Mart,
I've only tried running Ubuntu from the CD (not yet committed [installed] it to HDD) on four different machines and it is certainly 'different'. The jury is still out here, but was pleasantly surprised (and impressed) to see that it recognised quite a bit of my hardware - and especially USB stuff (inc. router) and my (laptop) PCMCIA WiFi card which gave (almost - just needed to input my WEP code) instant access to the net. I've always found relatively recent Linux distros recognise the hardware in every case. But setting up the modem is usually something else! I was trying each version of Mandrake (now Mandriva) as released, but now it has so much cutesy-prissy stuff - obviously trying to emulate the appeal of Windows - that I can't stand the bloody thing anymore - plus you require three or four cds to install it, of course. Right now I've got Ubuntu, Santa Fe, Fedora 7 and one from a cover cd called Pioneer (or maybe its Pie in Ear?) that turns out to be a version of Ubuntu called Kubuntu! And has the same poxy animated busy cursor as Mandriva that makes me want to kick things in the goolies! All live cds, btw. One thing about Linux that without, it wouldn't really be Linux anymore, is corporate-style security. It makes sense, unfortunately, that users should be prevented from doing most of what you and I want to do as a matter of course and in Linux you have to log off and log back on as 'root' to do most of what you don't give a second thought to in Win9x. WinXP, of course, has the potential to be set up almost as securely, such as your voluntarily doing your surfing in a Limited account rather than as an Administrator, but even I don't want to behave that way! Just like much of so-called social etiquette, it's really just how a small section of neurotics want things to be, like the ex-Colonel who thinks civillian life should be as disciplined as military life. Most of us didn't voluntarily join the forces, did we! It isn't lax and irresponsible to not want to have to worry about security like you're a company sysadmin! Linux is, really, a corporate OS. Note that Alias, the main Ubuntu advocate here, used to (choose to) use (possibly still does) Win 2k. Last night I thought - as I do! - of a way to describe Linux advocates: they're like model aircraft enthusiasts who don't understand that they're a minority group. They think everyone would go out flying model aircraft if the right model could be found! Like they think the reason the rest of us don't do it is because we don't want model Beechcraft or Spitfires, we want a 737 so's we can relive last year's holiday on the Costa Del Sol! Try to tell this modeller that most people just have no interest in flying model aircraft and he'll just dismiss you as an ignoramus and get back to work on the Boeing that's going to get the whole world twiddling their knobs in a field of a weekend! There, is that an insane take on the situation? And just for the record, I feel I have to play Devil's Advocate as regards Linux. Not least because there have always been crazies posting to whichever computer-related newsgroup over the years. Linux trolls. More trolls than genuine stable enthusiasts. But as the climate shifts - largely thanks to M$ and the anti-piracy/DRM B$ - more people are looking Linux-wards and almost no-one anymore is critical of them. But imagine Alias is not saying we should use Ubuntu, but that we should use Windows 2000. That puts it in a clearer perspective. Though LBreakout2 - an excellent arcade game written for Linux then ported to Windows - shows it does have potential. Shane |
#17
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gotta say.. so long ME
"Shane" wrote in message
I've always found relatively recent Linux distros recognise the hardware in every case. But setting up the modem is usually something else!.. ... ...same version of Ubuntu called Kubuntu! And has the same poxy animated busy cursor as Mandriva that makes me want to kick things in the goolies! All live cds, btw. Sofar my experience with the *buntu's has been that they recognize all the hardware on my old ME pc just fine. I don't like the dancing "wait" cursor in Kubuntu either, but I believe that can be changed as desired. One thing about Linux that without, it wouldn't really be Linux anymore, is corporate-style security. It makes sense, unfortunately, that users should be prevented from doing most of what you and I want to do.. ...but even I don't want to behave that way! Then you're far better off with WinXX if you don't like the security and have the pleasure of (or have someone else without your knowledge) changing something haphazardly which would require a complete reinstall. Last night I thought - as I do! - of a way to describe Linux advocates: they're like model aircraft enthusiasts who don't understand that they're a minority group... ....the rest of us want a 737 so's we can relive last year's holiday on the Costa Del Sol! Try to tell this modeller that most people just have no interest in flying model aircraft and he'll just dismiss you as an ignoramus and get back to work on the Boeing that's going to get the whole world twiddling their knobs in a field of a weekend! There, is that an insane take on the situation? Frankly, yes! g I think your analogy is reversed. Linux = 737, WinXX = paper aiplane. With 737's there are lot more controls and "sysadmin" stuff that you don't like. WinXX is the paper airplane that goes this way and that, the way it wants, and we learn to accept it. ...more people are looking Linux-wards and almost no-one anymore is critical of them. But imagine Alias is not saying we should use Ubuntu, but that we should use Windows 2000. That puts it in a clearer perspective. Though LBreakout2 - an excellent arcade game written for Linux then ported to Windows - shows it does have potential. I'd would have considered trying W2K if I had that handy. I've heard better things about it over ME. I would have preferred to maintain using many of my old winapps. But you mention games! That is probably what separates you and me in this whole discussion. I don't use my pc for games - none. I use it for actual work. Well.. I sort of have softspot for Myst, but I started playing it in OS/2; the last incarnations of require XP, but I do have a couple of other PCs that came with XP pre-installed - Myst can live there. Bottom line.. I want my "main" pc to be reliable. ME had a 7-year test. Worked reasonably well for the first 5 years (still the usual re-boot required every now and then). But lately, Me doesn't cooperate with my latest hardware upgrades. Re-boots are required more often. Very annoying. If I were playing a game - so what. But if I'm in the middle of writing a report or an invoice or building a catalog, then a failure is not acceptible. You say you don't like sysadmin stuff.. well, attending to Windows defrag, scandisk, anti-virus, spamware, etc.. sound quite sysadmin-ish to me! But I won't miss those when I ultimately move to Linux. |
#18
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gotta say.. so long ME
Very interesting reply Shane, I've snipped it for brevity (others can look
at previous post if they need to) but you asked "... is that an insane take on the situation?" Not at all - or at least not as far as I am concerned g However, as I've spent the past almost 20 years or so attempting to get to grips with MS's OS's - (well, DOS thru' XP) not to mention the earlier ZX and BBC stuff, I think I'm getting just a little bit 'long-in-the-tooth' to have to start over with yet a new (to me) OS. I'm beginning to side with the Honda - and now Ubuntu - slogan " It just works!" and so long as it does (and XP 'seems' to) then I'm happy. I, for one have had a very interesting and educational experience with MS (especially WinMe) over those years and do not particularly relish now jumping into Linux (family) at this 'late stage' of its development. Hence my earlier comment regarding getting myself a life. My (very limited) experience with Vista and Ubuntu reminds me - do I really NEED them? But being logical, if/when my current WinMe/XP kit(s) wear out, only then will I need to make a decision as to which direction to go. The days of needing to try (install) every piece of software I could get my hands on (ring any bells Harry?) are well over. Other than a handful of popular 'favourites' including Office suite are all that I need. So I guess it could be the Linux route. Beginning to get a little disillusioned with the overpriced bloatware from MS (as perhaps others are too, if the take-up of retail Vista seem to indicate) - but wouldn't have missed the experience for the world. You never know, my winter evenings might be free after all g BTW - Whatever happened to Lotus? - That was good stuff 'til MS knocked them off their perch. Mart |
#19
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gotta say.. so long ME
Ogg wrote:
"Shane" wrote in message I've always found relatively recent Linux distros recognise the hardware in every case. But setting up the modem is usually something else!.. .. ...same version of Ubuntu called Kubuntu! And has the same poxy animated busy cursor as Mandriva that makes me want to kick things in the goolies! All live cds, btw. Sofar my experience with the *buntu's has been that they recognize all the hardware on my old ME pc just fine. I don't like the dancing "wait" cursor in Kubuntu either, but I believe that can be changed as desired. One thing about Linux that without, it wouldn't really be Linux anymore, is corporate-style security. It makes sense, unfortunately, that users should be prevented from doing most of what you and I want to do.. ...but even I don't want to behave that way! Then you're far better off with WinXX if you don't like the security and have the pleasure of (or have someone else without your knowledge) changing something haphazardly which would require a complete reinstall. Last night I thought - as I do! - of a way to describe Linux advocates: they're like model aircraft enthusiasts who don't understand that they're a minority group... ....the rest of us want a 737 so's we can relive last year's holiday on the Costa Del Sol! Try to tell this modeller that most people just have no interest in flying model aircraft and he'll just dismiss you as an ignoramus and get back to work on the Boeing that's going to get the whole world twiddling their knobs in a field of a weekend! There, is that an insane take on the situation? Frankly, yes! g I think your analogy is reversed. Linux = 737, WinXX = paper aiplane. With 737's there are lot more controls and "sysadmin" stuff that you don't like. WinXX is the paper airplane that goes this way and that, the way it wants, and we learn to accept it. ...more people are looking Linux-wards and almost no-one anymore is critical of them. But imagine Alias is not saying we should use Ubuntu, but that we should use Windows 2000. That puts it in a clearer perspective. Though LBreakout2 - an excellent arcade game written for Linux then ported to Windows - shows it does have potential. I'd would have considered trying W2K if I had that handy. I've heard better things about it over ME. I would have preferred to maintain using many of my old winapps. But you mention games! That is probably what separates you and me in this whole discussion. I don't use my pc for games - none. I use it for actual work. Well.. I sort of have softspot for Myst, but I started playing it in OS/2; the last incarnations of require XP, but I do have a couple of other PCs that came with XP pre-installed - Myst can live there. Bottom line.. I want my "main" pc to be reliable. ME had a 7-year test. Worked reasonably well for the first 5 years (still the usual re-boot required every now and then). But lately, Me doesn't cooperate with my latest hardware upgrades. Re-boots are required more often. Very annoying. If I were playing a game - so what. But if I'm in the middle of writing a report or an invoice or building a catalog, then a failure is not acceptible. You say you don't like sysadmin stuff.. well, attending to Windows defrag, scandisk, anti-virus, spamware, etc.. sound quite sysadmin-ish to me! But I won't miss those when I ultimately move to Linux. Ogg, essentially you misunderstand everything I said - and clearly don't know me. I don't use PCs for games and I do little *but* Sysadmin stuff. The point I try to make, over and over - have done for years now - is that to be a viable alternative to Windows it does have to be like Windows. All Linux-as-serious-competition-with-Windows advocates absolutely have to stop thinking that because it satisfys them, it fulfils the requirements! And okay, so you'd be happy with Win2k - in some respects so would I - but it isn't for Windows Millennium users and if you would rather have Win2k than WinME, then you made a mistake getting Millennium. I mean, certainly - and I'm sure you'll agree - anyone who bought it for business was either mistaken or misled. The only ones with Millennium should be the ones who want the multimedia stuff. So trying to convince ME users that Win2k is better can only be to assume that they all made a mistake getting it in the first place. Which apart from being obviously wildly wrong, isn't very generous either. The vast majority would *not* be happy or better off with Win2k, so the opinion of people who would, as to whether *buntu is a serious alternative to Windows, is not worth much. After all, in business it is already known that *nix is the better choice. The ones who have to want it and the ones you have to convince *with the truth* are *not* the ones who would rather have Win2k than WinME! I don't like being called a 'guru' (I know you're not calling me one! So that's alright then) - but, you know, for the first time in years I'm not running multiple OSes (though I'm in the process of doing a third XP install - seeing how easily I can add the Via RAID drivers to an XP disc - since this machine doesn't have a floppy - and have them seen by Setup. There! You talk about WinME balking increasingly at modern hardware - buy an XP SP2 cd today and you'll find it *still* requires you to add special drivers by floppy, and it won't accept anything else *despite* the fact for years - since before SP2 - machines without floppies have been produced! You see, another thing I have to keep stressing, as people read what I say and assume I'm pro-Windows, anti-Linux - oh, how I *long* for the day I'd rather run the latter! Where was I? Oh yes. I gave up on NT4.0 - at long last - and 98SE. Both of which I was installing to virtual drives. I did have a WinME partition/XP partition virtual hard drive and two more XP ones but - the reason I'm trying to get round the lack of floppy - I'm setting up a dedicated host drive - on the RAID0 system - and have fitted a 40G PATA disk (as an emergency partial-backup location and...) as a physically seperate drive to run the virtual machines from (I just burnt an XP disc booting with floppy emulation and a floppy image including the RAID drivers, to see if, when running Setup via WINNT, I can install the drivers from the virtual and read-only A: drive). So, I've got a 4G FAT32 XP drive solely for maintenance (which dual boots with MS-DOS 8.00, ie from WinME) and will shortly have an NTFS 3G XP drive just for installing Virtual PC to (and downloaded Virtual Server yesterday) and the main NTFS XP installation, plus Documents, Softlib and Backup partitions running on the mirror array. On the drive I'll be running the virtual disks from I will continue to run WinME, along with at least one alternative configuration XP disk and space for one or two test virtual disks and quite possibly I'll install a distro there too (as opposed to only run from cd). You talk about Scandisk and Defrag as being something of a pita. Well - not that I've ever mentioned it before - but you'll see my name in the history file of ScanDefrag (basically a footnote - except not at the foot - from an exchange with my old mate Koldbear that actually I'm quite proud of - that is, that he thought to mention me). The point being that, just as I was involved in testing it from the very beginning, I have always recommended it and there isn't much reason to resent the effort of running those tools when ScanDefrag exists and, once configured, you can run them all from a single click (or as a Scheduled Task). Not that it makes a lot of difference to you - but when you use those chores as examples of why one is justified in ditching WinME... Also relevent - that I do recognise the chores and that what I do is try to 'fix' them: http://website.lineone.net/~shanebeatson/ And yes, I use XP - like most of us here. I use genuinely next-to-impossible to crack passwords. No-one else gets to operate this machine as an Administrator. But I sure as hell do not care for having to log into a different account just to run one command. To wait, type that password, run that command, go back to the account I can surf the 'net from, then remember I forgot a command, log off, wait, type a 20-odd character password again (make a typo and have to do it again! Twice!) blah blah blah. Not interested. Just because you and a handful of others think it's sensible! Do you know what the odds are against someone like *me* being hacked while online? No, nor do I - but I don't get malware. Like a number of genuinely sensible users, I just don't get malware. But I do have an ever increasing no. of anti rootkit tools, just in case. Why in god's name should *I* surf from a Limited account that I can't install what I just downloaded, from? Shane |
#20
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gotta say.. so long ME
Mart wrote:
Very interesting reply Shane, I've snipped it for brevity (others can look at previous post if they need to) but you asked "... is that an insane take on the situation?" Not at all - or at least not as far as I am concerned g However, as I've spent the past almost 20 years or so attempting to get to grips with MS's OS's - (well, DOS thru' XP) not to mention the earlier ZX and BBC stuff, I think I'm getting just a little bit 'long-in-the-tooth' to have to start over with yet a new (to me) OS. I'm beginning to side with the Honda - and now Ubuntu - slogan " It just works!" and so long as it does (and XP 'seems' to) then I'm happy. I, for one have had a very interesting and educational experience with MS (especially WinMe) over those years and do not particularly relish now jumping into Linux (family) at this 'late stage' of its development. Hence my earlier comment regarding getting myself a life. My (very limited) experience with Vista and Ubuntu reminds me - do I really NEED them? But being logical, if/when my current WinMe/XP kit(s) wear out, only then will I need to make a decision as to which direction to go. The days of needing to try (install) every piece of software I could get my hands on (ring any bells Harry?) are well over. Other than a handful of popular 'favourites' including Office suite are all that I need. So I guess it could be the Linux route. Beginning to get a little disillusioned with the overpriced bloatware from MS (as perhaps others are too, if the take-up of retail Vista seem to indicate) - but wouldn't have missed the experience for the world. You never know, my winter evenings might be free after all g BTW - Whatever happened to Lotus? - That was good stuff 'til MS knocked them off their perch. Yeah, funny that, when I was looking at new computers recently - settling for Lenovo , ie IBM - I saw that the models that came with the likes of an Office suite bundled, not only was it Lotus Smartsuite - it was Smartsuite Millennium! Which came bundled with the machine I got in 2000! Not that there's anything wrong with that. Though maybe the lack of anything more recent suggests development stopped? I gave my copy to my sister but it was never used. I'd bet donuts to dollars (I'd rather have the donuts!) she still has it. Maybe I should retrieve it. Reading your above, I found myself thinking 'yeah, essentially I agree - but for different reasons'. Then it turns out its essentially the same reason after all! So, Vista bombing? I do hope so! And I hope it has at least a little to do with charging us extra just because they can! I'd be proud to call myself British if we're giving M$ a communal V-sign (of course, they'd think it meant 'Victory!' g). I would like to try Vista. But then, that's what I do, isn't it. It would be predictable that I'd want to try it, but I wouldn't give them my money if I was on fire and it came with a free glass of water! Shane |
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