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Max performace settings (swap/cache) with 256/512 mb ram?



 
 
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  #21  
Old October 24th 04, 10:55 PM
Jeff Richards
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A machine that is running Widows 98 is often at least 4 or more years old,
so it is often not practical to have that much RAM. RAM modules for that
machine will typically be smaller, and some machines have only limited
capacity for RAM modules. Larger capacity modules of this type are often
expensive, and adding more RAM may require discarding existing, perfectly
good, modules. Because Windows 98 does such a good job of managing memory,
and because the total system load may include a lot of memory that is
accessed very infrequently, it is often not advisable to make that extra
investment, because you won't get any noticeable system performance
improvement from it.

If the machine can cope with that much RAM, if you are using very large and
very dynamic software, and if you don't mind spending the cash, then by all
means go for it.

If Windows really isn't using the swap file then whether you tell it to use
it or not becomes irrelevant. However, disabling swapping will create
problems if, for some unexpected reason, the system suddenly requires that
extra space. And that reason can be as accidental as double-clicking a
large number of files.
--
Jeff Richards
MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
"98 Guy" wrote in message ...
Bert Kinney wrote:

Hi 98 Guy,


Ron Martell MS-MVP has an article that will answer most of
you questions concerning memory management.
http://onlinehelp.bc.ca/tips.htm#virtual


Quoting from that article:

"While the "total system load" is a realistic measure of total system
memory requirements it is often not practicable or even advisable to
have that much physical RAM installed in the computer"

I don't know when that article was written, but clearly it IS
practical these days to have a Win-98 machine with 256 or 512 mb of
ram, so he is wrong about that. As for the "advisable" part, he gives
no reason why having "that much" ram is not advised.

The premise of the article is based on the idea that there can never
be as much physical memory as the OS needs given the sum of the "total
system load". This premise is clearly no longer valid.

While the article claims that Windows 98 with 1 and 1.5 gb of ram is
possible (with the appropriate settings), it does not explain the need
to still have a swap file or virtual memory in that case.

So - can you tell Win-98 not to use a swap file and not to create
virtual memory?



  #22  
Old October 24th 04, 11:04 PM
Jeff Richards
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Any software produced in recent years should already be properly aligned and
does not need to be aligned after installation. The effect of unaligned
software is probably not detectable if there is ample RAM available. You can
still use winalign (not walign) if you want - if there's no alignment to be
done then nothing will happen. Note, however, that your anti-virus software
may detect that the EXE has been modified, and the program itself might stop
working in some case. Overall, it's not worth the bother.
--
Jeff Richards
MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
"98 Guy" wrote in message ...
Buffalo wrote:

1) In your System.ini file put in MaxFileCache= 70% of physical
ram under the [vcache] header.
ie: 256MB x 70% = 179200 so MaxFileCache=179200
ie: 512MB x 70% = 469763 so MaxFileCache=469763


Vcache - this is a hard drive virtual cache - right?

Which means data that is written to or read from the drive is cached
transiently by Vcache.

Tell me - is the single largest cache-able item the swap file?

If you were limited to caching only 1 item - would the swap file be
it?

What is the purpose of the swap file anyways? Is the swap file the
place where virtual memory is stored?

If so, then if I have 512 mb of ram, why on earth do I STILL want
virtual memory? Don't I have enough freeking REAL memory?

And if I DON'T need or want virtual memory, then I don't have so much
hammering of the Vcache because (presumably) there is NO swap file
(?!).

Again, back in the "old days" when I might have had a PC with 32 mb of
ram (maybe 4 of that used by vcache?) and maybe 128 mb virtual memory
(all of which is stored _AS_ the swap file - yes?) then, what - I
theoretically have a PC with 32+128=160 mb of memory?

So now if I have 512 mb of REAL memory, then why on earth do I still
need virtual memory (and the swap file that goes with it) ???

Wouldn't win-98 run faster if it didn't have to manage virtual memory
and the swap file???

The other items you mentioned are not even modified unless you
run pure DOS games or pure DOS programs.
Windows98 does not need an AutoExec.bat or Config.sys file to
run Windows.


But doesn't win-98 still load (or need) himem.sys even if you don't
have an actual config.sys?

What about emm386?

My current emm386 line is:

DEVICE=C:\WIN98\EMM386.exe NOEMS D=64 A=15 VERBOSE

Are you saying that EMM386 is irrelavent to the operation of Windows
98, regardless of the command-line options used?

PS:

What about the use of WinAlign to "align" all executable code
(microsoft and non-microsoft) that can be aligned safely as a way to
increase performance? I don't hear too much about that. Is there a
master list of third-party software that has been shown to be
"align-able"?



  #23  
Old October 25th 04, 12:00 AM
Shepİ
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On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 19:34:33 GMT There I was minding my own business
and then Ron Martell wrote :

"Anorack Ted" wrote:

Check out :- http://www.outertech.com/index.php?_charisma_page=index


Cacheman is pure unadulterated crapware that is totally incapable of
performing any beneficial function for any computer under any
circumstances.


Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada


Ron Martini is pure un adult postware ;-)



--
Free Windows/PC help,
http://www.geocities.com/sheppola/trouble.html
remove obvious to reply
email
Free original songs to download and,"BURN" :O)
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/8/nomessiahsmusic.htm
  #24  
Old October 25th 04, 12:33 AM
Ron Martell
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Shepİ wrote:


Click here,
http://www.geocities.com/sheppola/easy.html

HTH


This sentence from this page is pure hokum:

"Also if you have around 128 meg or more of RAM then enable the
"Conservative Swap File"option in Cacheman to force windows to use all
your RAM before swapping out."

Windows will always repeat always use RAM before writing to the swap
file.

What that "conservative swap file usage" option does is to basically
set Windows 98 memory management back to the less efficient Windows 95
memory management. Specifically what it does is to eliminate the
pre-emptive writing of active memory content to the swap file.

What Windows 98 does, during periods when the system is basically
idle, is to scan the memory content and determine which items it would
choose to move from RAM to the swap file should it be necessary to do
so. It will then write those items to the swap file, but will also
still leave them in RAM. Then if subsequently there is an actual
need to move items to the swap file it can check those items that were
pre-emptively written to the swap file and if they are still eligible
to be moved they can be instantaneously dropped from RAM and their
location remapped to the already existing content in the swap file.
This can be a distinct performance advantage.

And see my comments earlier in this thread regarding Cacheman.


Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
--
Microsoft MVP
On-Line Help Computer Service
http://onlinehelp.bc.ca

"The reason computer chips are so small is computers don't eat much."
  #25  
Old October 25th 04, 01:28 AM
98 Guy
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Jeff Richards wrote:

A machine that is running Widows 98 is often at least 4 or more
years old, so it is often not practical to have that much RAM.


I'm replacing about 1/2 dozen office PC's (each being a P-3, 600 to
850 mhz, 128 mb ram each) to 2.6 ghz Celeron's with 512 mb ram, DVD-rw
(LG 8x) and CD-rw drives, 80 gb Seagate Barracuda drives (very quite),
Zalman copper CPU heatsink AND zalman 400 watt power supply. Very
fast, very quite machines.

They're getting Win 98 (1 master drive is being cloned with Ghost).
Full install of Microsoft office 2000 premium, and all sorts of other
goodies from the MSDN (map point, etc). DVD burning / copying
software (DVD decrypt, DVD shrink, etc).

So based on everything I've read so far, a machine with 512 mb (or
more) of real, honest to goodness RAM will never realistically need to
use virtual memory so it will get turned off.

What's a good setting for vcache? 64 mb? 128?
  #26  
Old October 25th 04, 01:30 AM
Shepİ
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Default

On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 23:33:46 GMT There I was minding my own business
and then Ron Martell wrote :

Shepİ wrote:


Click here,
http://www.geocities.com/sheppola/easy.html

HTH


This sentence from this page is pure hokum:

"Also if you have around 128 meg or more of RAM then enable the
"Conservative Swap File"option in Cacheman to force windows to use all
your RAM before swapping out."



Windows will always repeat always use RAM before writing to the swap
file.

Grow up sunshine.There's over 78,000 documented bugs in the original
win95 most of which have never been addressed in the later O/S by BG
not including the deliberate,"None Compatibility Code" he wrote
in.He's not,"Budda" you know.
He ripped off an O/S/Made money,conned a lot of people.History will
prove the truth.
Sorry to burst yer bubble but it's not as important as you make
yourself out to be.
People buy Pcs from,"K-mart" and,"Toys-R-Us".They don't care about
your corporate handed down knowledge about stolen code.
You are redundant for all intents and purposes.
Find a new hobby M8



--
Free Windows/PC help,
http://www.geocities.com/sheppola/trouble.html
remove obvious to reply
email
Free original songs to download and,"BURN" :O)
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/8/nomessiahsmusic.htm
  #27  
Old October 25th 04, 02:25 AM
Buffalo
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Posts: n/a
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"98 Guy" wrote in message ...
Jeff Richards wrote:

A machine that is running Widows 98 is often at least 4 or more
years old, so it is often not practical to have that much RAM.


I'm replacing about 1/2 dozen office PC's (each being a P-3, 600 to
850 mhz, 128 mb ram each) to 2.6 ghz Celeron's with 512 mb ram, DVD-rw
(LG 8x) and CD-rw drives, 80 gb Seagate Barracuda drives (very quite),
Zalman copper CPU heatsink AND zalman 400 watt power supply. Very
fast, very quite machines.

They're getting Win 98 (1 master drive is being cloned with Ghost).
Full install of Microsoft office 2000 premium, and all sorts of other
goodies from the MSDN (map point, etc). DVD burning / copying
software (DVD decrypt, DVD shrink, etc).

So based on everything I've read so far, a machine with 512 mb (or
more) of real, honest to goodness RAM will never realistically need to
use virtual memory so it will get turned off.

What's a good setting for vcache? 64 mb? 128?


With your limited knowledge, you shouldn't be in charge of the project you are
doong.
Go ahead and shut off the 'Virtual Memory' function.
Don't come back and cry, if you get 'burned' real bad.
You were given many good sites to look at and learn from.
If you want to argue without putting the time in to learn properly, that's your
problem.
LOL
Buffalo


  #28  
Old October 25th 04, 04:06 AM
98 Guy
external usenet poster
 
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Default

Buffalo wrote:

With your limited knowledge, you shouldn't be in charge of
the project you are doong.


Everything I've read points to one thing:

Real memory + Virtual memory = total available memory (TAM).

None of the documents that have been posted so far have said that TAM
ever needs to be more than a few hundred mb.

If TAM = 512 mb, and if Real Memory = 512 mb, then Virtual Memory = 0.

I'll run some Sandra tests with and without virtual memory turned on
and see if it makes a difference.

But I think many of you out there are just plain in the habbit of
keeping virtual memory turned because "it's always been that way". If
you've got 128mb ram, yea, ok, you probably need virtual memory turned
on. But if you've got 256? 512? no way. Win-98 is hardly ever,
perhaps never used as a server. So you can't tell me it's memory
needs are significant once you've given it 256 mb of real RAM.

Don't come back and cry, if you get 'burned' real bad.


And just how would I get "burned real bad" if I run a pc with Virtual
memory turned off?

Don't load a heap of FUD on me. Give me information - not FUD.
  #29  
Old October 25th 04, 04:54 AM
Bert Kinney
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Default

I don't know who "Ron Martini" is and considering you responded
to Ron Martell's response, I suggest you pay more attention to his
article than you did to the spelling of his name. And then you may
have a better understanding of memory management in MS Windows.

--
Regards,
Bert Kinney [MS-MVP DTS]
http://dts-l.org/
How to Configure Outlook Express for Internet News:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=171164

"Shepİ" wrote
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 19:34:33 GMT There I was minding my own business
and then Ron Martell wrote :

"Anorack Ted" wrote:

Check out :- http://www.outertech.com/index.php?_charisma_page=index


Cacheman is pure unadulterated crapware that is totally incapable of
performing any beneficial function for any computer under any
circumstances.


Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada


Ron Martini is pure un adult postware ;-)



--
Free Windows/PC help,
http://www.geocities.com/sheppola/trouble.html
remove obvious to reply
email
Free original songs to download and,"BURN" :O)
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/8/nomessiahsmusic.htm



  #30  
Old October 25th 04, 05:05 AM
SFB - KB3MM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

It might be worthwhile for him to download and install TaskInfo 2003 so he
can see the allocations for code and dat for each program runing in the
system and the actual memory being used by those sections.

"Buffalo" wrote in message
news:kCYed.523561$8_6.170112@attbi_s04...

"98 Guy" wrote in message ...
Jeff Richards wrote:

A machine that is running Widows 98 is often at least 4 or more
years old, so it is often not practical to have that much RAM.


I'm replacing about 1/2 dozen office PC's (each being a P-3, 600 to
850 mhz, 128 mb ram each) to 2.6 ghz Celeron's with 512 mb ram, DVD-rw
(LG 8x) and CD-rw drives, 80 gb Seagate Barracuda drives (very quite),
Zalman copper CPU heatsink AND zalman 400 watt power supply. Very
fast, very quite machines.

They're getting Win 98 (1 master drive is being cloned with Ghost).
Full install of Microsoft office 2000 premium, and all sorts of other
goodies from the MSDN (map point, etc). DVD burning / copying
software (DVD decrypt, DVD shrink, etc).

So based on everything I've read so far, a machine with 512 mb (or
more) of real, honest to goodness RAM will never realistically need to
use virtual memory so it will get turned off.

What's a good setting for vcache? 64 mb? 128?


With your limited knowledge, you shouldn't be in charge of the project you

are
doong.
Go ahead and shut off the 'Virtual Memory' function.
Don't come back and cry, if you get 'burned' real bad.
You were given many good sites to look at and learn from.
If you want to argue without putting the time in to learn properly, that's

your
problem.
LOL
Buffalo



 




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