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#1
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archaeology! MIDI keyboard with joystick interface?
(I'm using Windows 7, but have included the other two 'groups for
reasons that will become evident!) I was explaining about MIDI (musical) keyboards to a friend, when I remembered I had one, that I'd hardly used. I dug it out - it's still in its box, even with its original plastic bag - 3 octaves, mini size keys. "evolution MUSIC WIZARD". However: it has a 15-pin male connector on the end of a lead coming out of it! Looking into things, it would appear that that originally connected to the joystick port on a soundcard. I've had a look around, and I can't find anything to connect this to USB. I've found gameport to MIDI - those seem to consist of four connectors: a male 15 way and a female 15 way, and two five-pin male DIN plugs (the sort that was originally used for [mostly Philips] audio equipment in the 1970s, and early PC keyboards). I _think_ these are just passive cables - no electronics. I've also found USB to MIDI - these I think _do_ have electronics in them; they mostly also end in two male DIN plugs (the electronics in a little lump in the cable), but one or two are a little box with a couple of female DIN sockets. If I have to go that way, can I talk to it by using one of each of these - or, does anyone know of a single adapter (that has 15-way female to USB)? Looking at the excellent http://www.hardwarebook.info/, it looks as if MIDI (http://www.hardwarebook.info/MIDI) is just two wires - a current source and a current sink - plus a shield. http://www.hardwarebook.info/PC_Gameport_with_MIDI seems to support that. And before anyone says - yes, I know I could probably get a second-hand USB MIDI keyboard for less than the price of the two adapters! But I like a challenge. And, whether I get the old keyboard working or buy a new [or second-hand] one, (a) will I need drivers for a MIDI keyboard, or does Windows 7 know about such things intrinsically, and (b) any suggestions for good free MIDI editing/recording software? I rather suspect the software that's with the keyboard won't work with Windows 7, as it says I need at least Windows 3.1 (-: -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf .... and how lovely, warm, funny, and just all-round Victoria Woodish she was. - Richard Osman on Victoria Wood, RT 2017/4/8-14 |
#2
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archaeology! MIDI keyboard with joystick interface?
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
(I'm using Windows 7, but have included the other two 'groups for reasons that will become evident!) I was explaining about MIDI (musical) keyboards to a friend, when I remembered I had one, that I'd hardly used. I dug it out - it's still in its box, even with its original plastic bag - 3 octaves, mini size keys. "evolution MUSIC WIZARD". However: it has a 15-pin male connector on the end of a lead coming out of it! Looking into things, it would appear that that originally connected to the joystick port on a soundcard. I've had a look around, and I can't find anything to connect this to USB. I've found gameport to MIDI - those seem to consist of four connectors: a male 15 way and a female 15 way, and two five-pin male DIN plugs (the sort that was originally used for [mostly Philips] audio equipment in the 1970s, and early PC keyboards). I _think_ these are just passive cables - no electronics. I've also found USB to MIDI - these I think _do_ have electronics in them; they mostly also end in two male DIN plugs (the electronics in a little lump in the cable), but one or two are a little box with a couple of female DIN sockets. If I have to go that way, can I talk to it by using one of each of these - or, does anyone know of a single adapter (that has 15-way female to USB)? Looking at the excellent http://www.hardwarebook.info/, it looks as if MIDI (http://www.hardwarebook.info/MIDI) is just two wires - a current source and a current sink - plus a shield. http://www.hardwarebook.info/PC_Gameport_with_MIDI seems to support that. And before anyone says - yes, I know I could probably get a second-hand USB MIDI keyboard for less than the price of the two adapters! But I like a challenge. And, whether I get the old keyboard working or buy a new [or second-hand] one, (a) will I need drivers for a MIDI keyboard, or does Windows 7 know about such things intrinsically, and (b) any suggestions for good free MIDI editing/recording software? I rather suspect the software that's with the keyboard won't work with Windows 7, as it says I need at least Windows 3.1 (-: This shows an example of buffering (with the 74LS00 uses as a driver to drive the 220 ohm resistor). And there is an optoisolator on the Midi-In side. Implying that perhaps someone is concerned about ground differences in the equipment, eroding the TTL noise margins if the opto wasn't there. http://midi.teragonaudio.com/hardware/pc_intfc.htm In this example, they show a TTL-level serial port running at 31250 bps. https://www.compuphase.com/electronics/midi_rs232.htm So a USB to serial port, with the level shifter removed, would be base materials. You can get USB to TX/RX/GND for wiring up to smartphones, as an example. The article warns though, that not all serial ports can be programmed for 31250. Maybe 38400 would be the closest baud rate. They mention some FTDI chip as being a candidate. You would then search Ebay for a serial port with TTL levels, based on that FTDI chip. Such an adapter comes with a cable, with three wires with the ends stripped, for "soldering to circuits". Typically, people use such adapters for tapping into the serial port on a router board, or the serial port on a hard drive controller board (pins on the outside, in the jumper block, do serial!). The remaining part then would be, how do you convince a serial driver, to be adopted as MIDI I/O. Not a clue... At least you're going to have a hobby... or a research project... Paul |
#3
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archaeology! MIDI keyboard with joystick interface?
On 24/10/2019 23:54, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
(I'm using Windows 7, but have included the other two 'groups for reasons that will become evident!) I was explaining about MIDI (musical) keyboards to a friend, when I remembered I had one, that I'd hardly used. I dug it out - it's still in its box, even with its original plastic bag - 3 octaves, mini size keys. "evolution MUSIC WIZARD". However: it has a 15-pin male connector on the end of a lead coming out of it! Looking into things, it would appear that that originally connected to the joystick port on a soundcard. I've had a look around, and I can't find anything to connect this to USB. I've found gameport to MIDI - those seem to consist of four connectors: a male 15 way and a female 15 way, and two five-pin male DIN plugs (the sort that was originally used for [mostly Philips] audio equipment in the 1970s, and early PC keyboards). I _think_ these are just passive cables - no electronics. I've also found USB to MIDI - these I think _do_ have electronics in them; they mostly also end in two male DIN plugs (the electronics in a little lump in the cable), but one or two are a little box with a couple of female DIN sockets. If I have to go that way, can I talk to it by using one of each of these - or, does anyone know of a single adapter (that has 15-way female to USB)? Looking at the excellent http://www.hardwarebook.info/, it looks as if MIDI (http://www.hardwarebook.info/MIDI) is just two wires - a current source and a current sink - plus a shield. http://www.hardwarebook.info/PC_Gameport_with_MIDI seems to support that. And before anyone says - yes, I know I could probably get a second-hand USB MIDI keyboard for less than the price of the two adapters! But I like a challenge. And, whether I get the old keyboard working or buy a new [or second-hand] one, (a) will I need drivers for a MIDI keyboard, or does Windows 7 know about such things intrinsically, and (b) any suggestions for good free MIDI editing/recording software? I rather suspect the software that's with the keyboard won't work with Windows 7, as it says I need at least Windows 3.1 (-: I assume that the keyboard itself has the usual two 5-pin 180 degree DIN sockets, and that the cable which you have has two DIN plugs at one end and and a 15-pin D connector at the other end? If so, throw that cable away and get one of these: https://www.amazon.co.uk/USB-MIDI-Ca...a-794854502288 It's Plug-n-Play and will load the necessary drivers automatically when you plug it in. You then just need some MIDI sequencing software. I'm still using an old version of Cakewalk Express which was certainly written for an earlier version of Windows - but works perfectly happily on W7 (32-bit or 64-bit) [So it must be a 32-bit rather than 16-bit application, probably dating from W95 or 98, but not W3.1] If you send me a PM, I can probably fix you up with a copy. -- Cheers, Roger ____________ Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom checked. |
#4
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archaeology! MIDI keyboard with joystick interface?
Roger Mills wrote:
On 24/10/2019 23:54, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: (I'm using Windows 7, but have included the other two 'groups for reasons that will become evident!) I was explaining about MIDI (musical) keyboards to a friend, when I remembered I had one, that I'd hardly used. I dug it out - it's still in its box, even with its original plastic bag - 3 octaves, mini size keys. "evolution MUSIC WIZARD". However: it has a 15-pin male connector on the end of a lead coming out of it! Looking into things, it would appear that that originally connected to the joystick port on a soundcard. I've had a look around, and I can't find anything to connect this to USB. I've found gameport to MIDI - those seem to consist of four connectors: a male 15 way and a female 15 way, and two five-pin male DIN plugs (the sort that was originally used for [mostly Philips] audio equipment in the 1970s, and early PC keyboards). I _think_ these are just passive cables - no electronics. I've also found USB to MIDI - these I think _do_ have electronics in them; they mostly also end in two male DIN plugs (the electronics in a little lump in the cable), but one or two are a little box with a couple of female DIN sockets. If I have to go that way, can I talk to it by using one of each of these - or, does anyone know of a single adapter (that has 15-way female to USB)? Looking at the excellent http://www.hardwarebook.info/, it looks as if MIDI (http://www.hardwarebook.info/MIDI) is just two wires - a current source and a current sink - plus a shield. http://www.hardwarebook.info/PC_Gameport_with_MIDI seems to support that. And before anyone says - yes, I know I could probably get a second-hand USB MIDI keyboard for less than the price of the two adapters! But I like a challenge. And, whether I get the old keyboard working or buy a new [or second-hand] one, (a) will I need drivers for a MIDI keyboard, or does Windows 7 know about such things intrinsically, and (b) any suggestions for good free MIDI editing/recording software? I rather suspect the software that's with the keyboard won't work with Windows 7, as it says I need at least Windows 3.1 (-: I assume that the keyboard itself has the usual two 5-pin 180 degree DIN sockets, and that the cable which you have has two DIN plugs at one end and and a 15-pin D connector at the other end? If so, throw that cable away and get one of these: https://www.amazon.co.uk/USB-MIDI-Ca...a-794854502288 It's Plug-n-Play and will load the necessary drivers automatically when you plug it in. You then just need some MIDI sequencing software. I'm still using an old version of Cakewalk Express which was certainly written for an earlier version of Windows - but works perfectly happily on W7 (32-bit or 64-bit) [So it must be a 32-bit rather than 16-bit application, probably dating from W95 or 98, but not W3.1] If you send me a PM, I can probably fix you up with a copy. And there is a Class codepoint for MIDI on USB. https://usb.org/sites/default/files/midi10.pdf Which makes it easier for an in-box driver to work with such an adapter. On something like Win98 of course, YMMV, as there wouldn't be the wealth of Class drivers at that point, that there are today. Paul |
#5
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archaeology! MIDI keyboard with joystick interface?
On 26/10/2019 20:24, Paul wrote:
Roger Mills wrote: On 24/10/2019 23:54, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: (I'm using Windows 7, but have included the other two 'groups for reasons that will become evident!) I was explaining about MIDI (musical) keyboards to a friend, when I remembered I had one, that I'd hardly used. I dug it out - it's still in its box, even with its original plastic bag - 3 octaves, mini size keys. "evolution MUSIC WIZARD". However: it has a 15-pin male connector on the end of a lead coming out of it! Looking into things, it would appear that that originally connected to the joystick port on a soundcard. I've had a look around, and I can't find anything to connect this to USB. I've found gameport to MIDI - those seem to consist of four connectors: a male 15 way and a female 15 way, and two five-pin male DIN plugs (the sort that was originally used for [mostly Philips] audio equipment in the 1970s, and early PC keyboards). I _think_ these are just passive cables - no electronics. I've also found USB to MIDI - these I think _do_ have electronics in them; they mostly also end in two male DIN plugs (the electronics in a little lump in the cable), but one or two are a little box with a couple of female DIN sockets. If I have to go that way, can I talk to it by using one of each of these - or, does anyone know of a single adapter (that has 15-way female to USB)? Looking at the excellent http://www.hardwarebook.info/, it looks as if MIDI (http://www.hardwarebook.info/MIDI) is just two wires - a current source and a current sink - plus a shield. http://www.hardwarebook.info/PC_Gameport_with_MIDI seems to support that. And before anyone says - yes, I know I could probably get a second-hand USB MIDI keyboard for less than the price of the two adapters! But I like a challenge. And, whether I get the old keyboard working or buy a new [or second-hand] one, (a) will I need drivers for a MIDI keyboard, or does Windows 7 know about such things intrinsically, and (b) any suggestions for good free MIDI editing/recording software? I rather suspect the software that's with the keyboard won't work with Windows 7, as it says I need at least Windows 3.1 (-: I assume that the keyboard itself has the usual two 5-pin 180 degree DIN sockets, and that the cable which you have has two DIN plugs at one end and and a 15-pin D connector at the other end? If so, throw that cable away and get one of these: https://www.amazon.co.uk/USB-MIDI-Ca...a-794854502288 It's Plug-n-Play and will load the necessary drivers automatically when you plug it in. You then just need some MIDI sequencing software. I'm still using an old version of Cakewalk Express which was certainly written for an earlier version of Windows - but works perfectly happily on W7 (32-bit or 64-bit) [So it must be a 32-bit rather than 16-bit application, probably dating from W95 or 98, but not W3.1] If you send me a PM, I can probably fix you up with a copy. And there is a Class codepoint for MIDI on USB. https://usb.org/sites/default/files/midi10.pdf Which makes it easier for an in-box driver to work with such an adapter. On something like Win98 of course, YMMV, as there wouldn't be the wealth of Class drivers at that point, that there are today. Paul Indeed. I've got about 3 of these USB to MIDI adapters (not identical to the one I cited, but which do the same job). I bought the first one in Win XP times - and that came with a CD with the necessary drivers on it (AND some MIDI sequencing software). The more recent ones have been Plug-n-Play, and haven't needed external drivers. -- Cheers, Roger ____________ Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom checked. |
#6
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archaeology! MIDI keyboard with joystick interface?
On 26/10/2019 21:03, Roger Mills wrote:
On 26/10/2019 20:24, Paul wrote: Roger Mills wrote: On 24/10/2019 23:54, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: (I'm using Windows 7, but have included the other two 'groups for reasons that will become evident!) I was explaining about MIDI (musical) keyboards to a friend, when I remembered I had one, that I'd hardly used. I dug it out - it's still in its box, even with its original plastic bag - 3 octaves, mini size keys. "evolution MUSIC WIZARD". However: it has a 15-pin male connector on the end of a lead coming out of it! Looking into things, it would appear that that originally connected to the joystick port on a soundcard. I've had a look around, and I can't find anything to connect this to USB. I've found gameport to MIDI - those seem to consist of four connectors: a male 15 way and a female 15 way, and two five-pin male DIN plugs (the sort that was originally used for [mostly Philips] audio equipment in the 1970s, and early PC keyboards). I _think_ these are just passive cables - no electronics. I've also found USB to MIDI - these I think _do_ have electronics in them; they mostly also end in two male DIN plugs (the electronics in a little lump in the cable), but one or two are a little box with a couple of female DIN sockets. If I have to go that way, can I talk to it by using one of each of these - or, does anyone know of a single adapter (that has 15-way female to USB)? Looking at the excellent http://www.hardwarebook.info/, it looks as if MIDI (http://www.hardwarebook.info/MIDI) is just two wires - a current source and a current sink - plus a shield. http://www.hardwarebook.info/PC_Gameport_with_MIDI seems to support that. And before anyone says - yes, I know I could probably get a second-hand USB MIDI keyboard for less than the price of the two adapters! But I like a challenge. And, whether I get the old keyboard working or buy a new [or second-hand] one, (a) will I need drivers for a MIDI keyboard, or does Windows 7 know about such things intrinsically, and (b) any suggestions for good free MIDI editing/recording software? I rather suspect the software that's with the keyboard won't work with Windows 7, as it says I need at least Windows 3.1 (-: I assume that the keyboard itself has the usual two 5-pin 180 degree DIN sockets, and that the cable which you have has two DIN plugs at one end and and a 15-pin D connector at the other end? If so, throw that cable away and get one of these: https://www.amazon.co.uk/USB-MIDI-Ca...a-794854502288 It's Plug-n-Play and will load the necessary drivers automatically when you plug it in. You then just need some MIDI sequencing software. I'm still using an old version of Cakewalk Express which was certainly written for an earlier version of Windows - but works perfectly happily on W7 (32-bit or 64-bit) [So it must be a 32-bit rather than 16-bit application, probably dating from W95 or 98, but not W3.1] If you send me a PM, I can probably fix you up with a copy. And there is a Class codepoint for MIDI on USB. https://usb.org/sites/default/files/midi10.pdf Which makes it easier for an in-box driver to work with such an adapter. On something like Win98 of course, YMMV, as there wouldn't be the wealth of Class drivers at that point, that there are today. Paul Indeed. I've got about 3 of these USB to MIDI adapters (not identical to the one I cited, but which do the same job). I bought the first one in Win XP times - and that came with a CD with the necessary drivers on it (AND some MIDI sequencing software). The more recent ones have been Plug-n-Play, and haven't needed external drivers. Here's an even cheaper one than the one I first cited. No reason why this wouldn't work - it's certainly worth a punt! https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB-To-MI...sAAOSwmSNdKIlI -- Cheers, Roger ____________ Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom checked. |
#7
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archaeology! MIDI keyboard with joystick interface?
In message , Roger Mills
writes: On 26/10/2019 21:03, Roger Mills wrote: [] Roger Mills wrote: [] I assume that the keyboard itself has the usual two 5-pin 180 degree DIN sockets, and that the cable which you have has two DIN plugs at one end and and a 15-pin D connector at the other end? No. The _only_ connection to the outside world it has is a _captive_ cable (i. e. comes out of the keyboard), with the 15-pin D connector on the end of it. It does say on the box that it is definitely MIDI. [] Indeed. I've got about 3 of these USB to MIDI adapters (not identical to the one I cited, but which do the same job). I bought the first one in Win XP times - and that came with a CD with the necessary drivers on it (AND some MIDI sequencing software). The more recent ones have been Plug-n-Play, and haven't needed external drivers. Here's an even cheaper one than the one I first cited. No reason why this wouldn't work - it's certainly worth a punt! https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB-To-MI...-Cable-Adapter -Music-Keyboard-Piano-To-PC-Laptop/372710966766?epid=1542423275&hash=ite m56c74e05ee:g:7osAAOSwmSNdKIlI There are literally hundreds of those on ebay! (Though they all look suspiciously similar.) I have also found ones with _female_ DIN sockets on (like this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STEINBERG...AOSwy~JdrwJ r alias t.ly/d5l3z), and also gameport-to-(male)DIN cables. -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf Only dirty people need wash |
#8
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archaeology! MIDI keyboard with joystick interface?
In message , Roger Mills
writes: [] You then just need some MIDI sequencing software. I'm still using an old version of Cakewalk Express which was certainly written for an earlier version of Windows - but works perfectly happily on W7 (32-bit or 64-bit) [So it must be a 32-bit rather than 16-bit application, probably dating from W95 or 98, but not W3.1] If you send me a PM, I can probably fix you up with a copy. .... Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom checked. I've sent an email - hope that counts as a PM (-: -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf Only dirty people need wash |
#9
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archaeology! MIDI keyboard with joystick interface?
On 27/10/2019 00:32, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Roger Mills writes: [] You then just need some MIDI sequencing software. I'm still using an old version of Cakewalk Express which was certainly written for an earlier version of Windows - but works perfectly happily on W7 (32-bit or 64-bit) [So it must be a 32-bit rather than 16-bit application, probably dating from W95 or 98, but not W3.1] If you send me a PM, I can probably fix you up with a copy. ... Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom checked. I've sent an email - hope that counts as a PM (-: I've replied to your email - but I did that *before* I saw your previous post about the captive cable, so some of it may not apply! -- Cheers, Roger ____________ Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom checked. |
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