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KB891711.EXE



 
 
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  #91  
Old March 17th 05, 04:37 PM
Earl
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I think you were referring to his post on comparing identical HP Pavillion
machines, which I read with interest. While the only "apparent" difference
was the inclusion of an anti-virus program on the offending machine, I view
that as a trigger for what he calls the "lame-patch", rather than the root
cause. I had a web-game on one system which triggered the instant-reboot,
but again, the game was not the issue, rather 891711 was the culprit.

Frankly, I am shocked that Microsoft would release this patch to the ME
community given it's nearly 2-month adverse history on Win2k machines (my
date said 1/25/05, but another poster said it was released earlier in
January). ME machines have nowhere near the inherent stability of a Win2k
system as it is, and so to unleash a psuedo-virus into that community when
they were aware of existing problems with 891711 approaches
irresponsibility. I don't say this just to blast Microsoft, as I develop
with their tools, use their products extensively, and have had excellent
support from some of their personnel. But in this case, the ball was dropped
badly.

"Jack E Martinelli" wrote in message
...
Thank you, Earl. Jim can get it to the right people.
And see Norman Miller's very helpful recent posts about this issue.

I believe we have several reports of trouble on Celeron machines now.
Most problematic machines seem to be older, slower boxes, running Win9X or
W2K.

And we must keep in mind that there may be more than one cause.

Probable date for a new patch is April 12, if past WU history is any
guide.
--
Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS
Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm

http://www.microsoft.com/athome/secu...t/default.aspx
In Memorium: Alex Nichol
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/e...ts/nichol.mspx
Your cooperation is very appreciated.
------
"Earl" wrote in message
...
Jack,

I did copy the body of my most recent post on this subject to Jim.

I've not yet seen this issue arise on any Intel machines, yet as I

indicated
in my post, I've not seen any evidence to indicate this was an absolute
exclusion. But I've also not seen any posts that convince me that this

patch
is affecting Intel machines. Some issues that folks are attributing to
891711 are simply unrelated to this patch (I would certainly not apply

this
patch to a system that already had issues!). However, given the diversity

of
hardware that Intel has created over the years, it would not totally
surprise me. Yet the instruction sets in the processors differ more

between
Intel and non-Intel than across various generations of Intel chips. It's
been a number of years, but if I recall correctly, the interrupts are

wired
differently also on non-Intel CPUs. Whether or not that is the issue, I
doubt we'll ever hear. I suspect Microsoft will simply release an updated
patch at some point.

"Jack E Martinelli" wrote in message
...
Thank you very much, Earl.

I urge you to copy this post to Jim Eshelman using the Feedback tool at
his
website:
www.aumha.org
He has much better connections with MS than I do.

The 891711 problem is now clearly NOT confined to AMD cpu's.
I am not aware of any reported extensive correlations with the video
adapter
or its driver yet, just some vague murmerings. We should explore this
possibility.
--
Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS
Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm

http://www.microsoft.com/athome/secu...t/default.aspx
In Memorium: Alex Nichol
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/e...ts/nichol.mspx
Your cooperation is very appreciated.
------
"Earl" wrote in message
...
Jack,

The problem absolutely affects Win2k as well as WinME (see my threads
from
last month in the microsoft.public.win2000.windows_update forum).
Apparently
everyone was still oblivious to this issue in February, as not one

person
responded to any of my threads. In any event ...

Once 891711 has been installed, the problem seems to arise due to a
problem
with the hardware and or drivers not being able to process graphics
properly. It appears that 891711 is intercepting some of the graphic

data
and "re-handling" it.

Intel systems appear to be nearly, if not completely unaffected by the
problem, which tells me that the patch was most likely tested on Intel
machines only.

Non-Intel hardware appears to be solely or mostly affected by this
problem.
In particular, older AMD systems are universally afflicted. I can only
speculate that this has something to do with the way interrupts are
handled
at the processor. In any event, further testing on this patch with
non-Intel
systems needs to be done.

This is not a software issue, although many deceptive symptoms make it
appear so. Exiting game software, running your cursor over hot-links,
anti-virus activity, changing windows, stacking windows, etc. -- any
number
of graphic related events will cause the reboot or "BSOD". In many

cases,
an
891711-afflicted system will apparently reboot itself for no reason at
all.

Hopefully you can send that information "upstairs".


"Jack E Martinelli" wrote in message
...
Ditto, Bill. Thank you.
-------
May I report that I've just heard from Jim Eshelman about the

KB891711
problem.
He is unable to offer anything new to our discussion.
His recommendation is to disable or uninstall the update until MS
offers
a
new fix.
He seems to think the problem is restricted to Win9X machines, but I
think
some W2K boxes have been hit, too.
I have no idea yet what the cause may be, despite several earlier
promising suggestions.
--
Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS
Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm

http://www.microsoft.com/athome/secu...t/default.aspx
In Memorium: Alex Nichol
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/e...ts/nichol.mspx
Your cooperation is very appreciated.
------

SNIP








  #92  
Old March 21st 05, 01:07 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I'm running w98 on a P3 3000, and I have the problem. So it's not just
with slower chips

Bill Leary wrote:
"Lester Stiefel" wrote in message
...
You've struck paydirt. Older processors are not compatible
with that fix. Only Athlon 700mhz up and newer Intel
processors are compatible. Its not the OS, Its the chip.


Where did you come by this information, please?

It looks like I'll have to have my son disable KB891711, since he's

got a 400MHz
AMD in his system and *is* having problems. The two machines here

have 1700 and
1900 AMDs and are having no problems.

- Bill


  #94  
Old March 21st 05, 12:42 PM
E. Barry Bruyea
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 00:16:10 -0000, "Mike M"
wrote:

wrote:

I'm running w98 on a P3 3000, and I have the problem. So it's not
just with slower chips


The problem with the 891711 hotfix isn't with the cpu chip but instead
seems to be with the video card and driver version which is why some users
are having problems and others not.
--
Mike Maltby MS-MVP



I'm running a NVIDIA GeForce 4 MX440 with their latest driver on an
AMD K7 1.9 gig system, so I tend to agree with you, as that 'HotFix'
really screwed up my computer.


  #95  
Old March 21st 05, 02:34 PM
Jack E Martinelli
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Are you willing to consider replacing the MX440 with a modern, more powerful
card to see if that resolves the KB891711 problem?

--
Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS
Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm

http://www.microsoft.com/athome/secu...t/default.aspx
In Memorium: Alex Nichol
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/e...ts/nichol.mspx
Your cooperation is very appreciated.
------
"E. Barry Bruyea" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 00:16:10 -0000, "Mike M"
wrote:

wrote:

I'm running w98 on a P3 3000, and I have the problem. So it's not
just with slower chips


The problem with the 891711 hotfix isn't with the cpu chip but instead
seems to be with the video card and driver version which is why some

users
are having problems and others not.
--
Mike Maltby MS-MVP



I'm running a NVIDIA GeForce 4 MX440 with their latest driver on an
AMD K7 1.9 gig system, so I tend to agree with you, as that 'HotFix'
really screwed up my computer.




  #96  
Old March 22nd 05, 01:09 AM
E. Barry Bruyea
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 08:34:33 -0500, "Jack E Martinelli"
wrote:

Are you willing to consider replacing the MX440 with a modern, more powerful
card to see if that resolves the KB891711 problem?


This video card (at least up until now) has been bullet proof since
installed and has suited my needs (I'm not a gamer), so I hesitate to
change. What is the implication of not using this update?


  #97  
Old March 22nd 05, 03:51 AM
Jack E Martinelli
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I understand. I suggested the change as a test of the video driver
interaction with KB891711.

The implications of the possible exploit are spelled out in the MS notice.
One must navigate to a bad actor website using the exploit. The potential
problem is that such an intender can hack into some web host server farm and
infect many unsuspecting author's sites long before it is discovered. Each
possible mal-acting icon, etc., poses an additional item in the AV signature
files, a huge task. The far better solution is to plug the loophole in the
OS, as XP SP2 has already done.
--
Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS
Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm

http://www.microsoft.com/athome/secu...t/default.aspx
In Memorium: Alex Nichol
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/e...ts/nichol.mspx
Your cooperation is very appreciated.
------
"E. Barry Bruyea" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 08:34:33 -0500, "Jack E Martinelli"
wrote:

Are you willing to consider replacing the MX440 with a modern, more

powerful
card to see if that resolves the KB891711 problem?


This video card (at least up until now) has been bullet proof since
installed and has suited my needs (I'm not a gamer), so I hesitate to
change. What is the implication of not using this update?



  #98  
Old March 25th 05, 06:36 PM
Jack E Martinelli
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I've received a request from the team that's working on the
KB891711 issue. They would like everyone in the USA who has had problems
with KB891711 to call 1-866-PCSafety (1-866-727-2338). If you can help
them with some info, they say they're close to reproducing the
problem--first step toward solving it. I have asked for, though not yet
received, assurances that callers will be taken more seriously than has
been reported thus far.

(According to at least a couple of people, when they called PSS they
were told that KB891711 wasn't a critical problem on Win98 and to just
uninstall it. KB891711 deals with a very *serious* vulnerability,
affecting pretty much all Windows systems, and anyone who can't get
patched decently should don at *least* a dozen condoms before journeying
out onto the internet.)

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm


--
Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS
Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm

http://www.microsoft.com/athome/secu...t/default.aspx
In Memorium: Alex Nichol
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/e...ts/nichol.mspx
Your cooperation is very appreciated.
------
"Chris" wrote in message
news
Gentlemen, I was browsing and all of a sudden my browser freezes and

nothing
could get me out. I had to shut down and reboot. Since I had Dr. Watson

on,
by opening it I get the following message: Windows KB891711 component has
altered Windows system files.

Module Name: KB891711.EXE
Description: Windows KB891711 component
Version: 4.10.2222
Product: Microsoft(R) Windows(R) Operating System
Manufacturer: Microsoft Corporation

Any idea what the heck this thing is?

Dr. Watson also has been reporting for a while that : If the Taskbar is
behaving strangely, try exiting Multimedia background task support module.

Module Name: mmtask.tsk
Description: Multimedia background task support module
Version: 4.90.3000
Product: Microsoft Windows
Manufacturer: Microsoft Corporation

Appreciate a response!



  #99  
Old March 27th 05, 04:27 AM
wr4fsu
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

You are correct: DO NOT INSTALL THE UPDATE. It has nothing to do with NAV.
We are running Zone Alarm Security Suite and now we have the (dreaded)
KB891711.exe issue, whatever the issue is. We have NO NORTON products either
but still got this error. We are working now to remove files from the hard
drive and put XP on it....or maybe I will go back to 98SE!!

"heirloom" wrote:

I'm still reluctant to apply the patch, even though I am no longer running
any Norton products. As with other updates, this one DOES create a restore
point (for those that fail to do so manually), doesn't it?
Heirloom, old and EZ AV is working for me


"Noel Paton" wrote in message
...
(OK, I'll say it - blame Norton!! They've managed to f^&* up everything
else in ME, so why should this patch be any different??)



--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2005, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.btinternet.com/~winnoel/millsrpch.htm
http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to NG's

"Galen" wrote in message
...
In ,
heirloom had this to say:

My reply is at the bottom of your sent message:

I am seeing a lot of references to this particular update causing
problems with a common denominator of NAV (or related Symantec
product). When installing this update, does it not create a restore
point? And, yes, due to the nature of NAV, it would be necessary to
reinstall after a System Restore. Has anyone pinned this on the use
of Symantec products??....or is there still a chance it is browser
related?? Heirloom, old and holding off on this one

No one has had the gaul to blame NAV yet though I've been leaning

towards
it. My biggest problem is taking it out on a single company when there

are
too many variables. I'd absolutely hate to be the person who caused a
large group of people to switch to more effective solutions. Well, okay,

I
would... But I do try to examine ALL potentials before jumping out and
saying it's NAV. However this does seem to be the one constant among

most
of the posts... I think, my good sir, that Heirloom shall be the bearer

of
bad news on this one See also the number of threads in the 98 group.
The update is specifically about this:

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/Sec.../ms05-002.mspx

It's only available via the updates site itself for 9x/ME. Some have
trouble, some do not... Methinks if I were more carefully oriented I

could
go back and cite examples to SUPPORT your NAV claim my good sir. Indeed

it
seems likely as I browse through my answers which are highlighted and
flagged to appear on top. However, I'm not tellin' all of 'em! They'll
lynch me! I'm only 31 and have a wife and 2 kids! Besides, I'm a coward

:P
You tell 'em...

Galen
--
Signature changed for a moment of silence.
Rest well Alex and we'll see you on the other side.






  #100  
Old March 27th 05, 07:51 AM
Noel Paton
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

You only need to prevent the patch from running - that fixes the problem!!

To do so, either uninstall it from Add/Remove Programs, or use MSCONFIG to
prevent the launch at boot (in the Startup tab)

could you please run Everest Home Edition (www.lavalys.com on the PC
*Before* upgrading to XP (if you decide that's the way to go), and send me
the resulting report file? - my email is valid.

Thanks

--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2005, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.btinternet.com/~winnoel/millsrpch.htm

In fond memory of one of life's Gentlemen - Alex Nichol
http://www.aumha.org/alex.htm

Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to NG's

"wr4fsu" wrote in message
...
You are correct: DO NOT INSTALL THE UPDATE. It has nothing to do with
NAV.
We are running Zone Alarm Security Suite and now we have the (dreaded)
KB891711.exe issue, whatever the issue is. We have NO NORTON products
either
but still got this error. We are working now to remove files from the
hard
drive and put XP on it....or maybe I will go back to 98SE!!

"heirloom" wrote:

I'm still reluctant to apply the patch, even though I am no longer
running
any Norton products. As with other updates, this one DOES create a
restore
point (for those that fail to do so manually), doesn't it?
Heirloom, old and EZ AV is working for me


"Noel Paton" wrote in message
...
(OK, I'll say it - blame Norton!! They've managed to f^&* up
everything
else in ME, so why should this patch be any different??)



--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2005, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.btinternet.com/~winnoel/millsrpch.htm
http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to
NG's

"Galen" wrote in message
...
In ,
heirloom had this to say:

My reply is at the bottom of your sent message:

I am seeing a lot of references to this particular update causing
problems with a common denominator of NAV (or related Symantec
product). When installing this update, does it not create a restore
point? And, yes, due to the nature of NAV, it would be necessary to
reinstall after a System Restore. Has anyone pinned this on the
use
of Symantec products??....or is there still a chance it is browser
related?? Heirloom, old and holding off on this
one

No one has had the gaul to blame NAV yet though I've been leaning

towards
it. My biggest problem is taking it out on a single company when
there

are
too many variables. I'd absolutely hate to be the person who caused a
large group of people to switch to more effective solutions. Well,
okay,

I
would... But I do try to examine ALL potentials before jumping out
and
saying it's NAV. However this does seem to be the one constant among

most
of the posts... I think, my good sir, that Heirloom shall be the
bearer

of
bad news on this one See also the number of threads in the 98
group.
The update is specifically about this:

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/Sec.../ms05-002.mspx

It's only available via the updates site itself for 9x/ME. Some have
trouble, some do not... Methinks if I were more carefully oriented I

could
go back and cite examples to SUPPORT your NAV claim my good sir.
Indeed

it
seems likely as I browse through my answers which are highlighted and
flagged to appear on top. However, I'm not tellin' all of 'em!
They'll
lynch me! I'm only 31 and have a wife and 2 kids! Besides, I'm a
coward

:P
You tell 'em...

Galen
--
Signature changed for a moment of silence.
Rest well Alex and we'll see you on the other side.








 




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