Review of KB891711.EXE issue

In order that we might better dissect the obvious problem that is
KB891711.EXE, I'd like to request any and all persons who have
encountered the problems to please do some tests for me and report the
results according to the schema below. My goal here is to collect data
in a standardized and methodical manner for MS techs to use. Trying to
pick through the somewhat haphazard anecdotal evidence that has been
posted thus far would make the task more difficult. Please refrain from
additional discussion of the issue in this thread. I'd like to keep it
clean of speculation, etc. I'm sure that if the techs want more specific
tests done, they'll ask, and I'm sure, also, that they will likely
review other posts to this NG for background.

1. How do you connect to the internet? Dial-up, DSL, cable?

2. Without changing anything, and with your normal background apps
enabled, when and how do errors occur, and what are the exact, verbatim
details of these errors? In the case of non-BSOD errors, include
Registers, please.

3. What, if any, tricks have you discovered that allow you to bypass
errors (other than disabling anything, including KB891711.EXE in
MSCONFIG or otherwise killing processes.)

4. Using your AV settings, disable any real-time or background
functions. Then go into MSCONFIG and disable everything in the Startup
tab *except* KB891711.EXE. Physically disconnect your system from any
internet connection, then restart. Try various programs, most especially
IE or whatever your default browser is. Yes, I know you won't get
anywhere, yet.

5. Whether or not errors occur in step 4, reconnect your system to the
internet and attempt to go online. Report any errors. (You may want to
restart again before this step.) Do not stay online if you actually make
it there. No AV and no Firewall mean you're a ripe target for invasion.
Quit your browser and then immediately disconnect the physical
connection. Go into MSCONFIG and re-enable your firewall, restart and
reconnect to the internet, then test. Next, test with AV enabled. Then
progressively re-enable the rest of the items in MSCONFIG, testing at
each juncture.

If any Windows ME users are lurking and have problems with KB891711.EXE
and want to participate, be sure not to disable items in MSCONFIG
related to System Restore (I *think* that's the ones marked by an
*asterisk, but I'm not certain.)

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

"Gary S. Terhune" wrote in message
...
In order that we might better dissect the obvious problem that is
KB891711.EXE, I'd like to request any and all persons who have
encountered the problems to please do some tests for me and report the
results according to the schema below....

1. How do you connect to the internet? Dial-up, DSL, cable?

Dial-up.

2. Without changing anything, and with your normal background apps
enabled, when and how do errors occur, and what are the exact, verbatim
details of these errors? In the case of non-BSOD errors, include
Registers, please.

Laptop running Windows 98SE. Went to Windows Update and installed the two
latest updates (Q?250 and Q891711), one at a time and in that order.
Everything seemed fine, then my dialup connection terminated during an AVG
virus-definition download. Attempting to reconnect resulted in "no dial tone
detected" errors in DUN, even though the phone line was connected and OK. My
Active Desktop (a local HTML file) then turned into the WSOD; clicking on
"Restore Active Desktop" caused my system to stop responding to the mouse
and keyboard. Ctrl-Alt-Del having no effect, I had to turn the PC off and
back on.

On reboot, everything seemed fine after the obligatory Scandisk until after
the login prompt, when the WSOD desktop appeared and my computer locked up
after some but not all of my background programs had started up. Repeated
the hard reset a couple of times, with the same result.

Finally booted into Safe Mode (F5 is our friend) and removed 891711 from my
system via Add/Remove Programs. Restarted the PC, and everything was fine.
Ran my anti-virus and anti-spyware programs, nothing found.

3. What, if any, tricks have you discovered that allow you to bypass
errors (other than disabling anything, including KB891711.EXE in
MSCONFIG or otherwise killing processes.)

4. Using your AV settings, disable any real-time or background
functions. Then go into MSCONFIG and disable everything in the Startup
tab *except* KB891711.EXE. Physically disconnect your system from any
internet connection, then restart. Try various programs, most especially
IE or whatever your default browser is. Yes, I know you won't get
anywhere, yet.

5. Whether or not errors occur in step 4, reconnect your system to the
internet and attempt to go online. Report any errors. (You may want to
restart again before this step.) Do not stay online if you actually make
it there. No AV and no Firewall mean you're a ripe target for invasion.
Quit your browser and then immediately disconnect the physical
connection. Go into MSCONFIG and re-enable your firewall, restart and
reconnect to the internet, then test. Next, test with AV enabled. Then
progressively re-enable the rest of the items in MSCONFIG, testing at
each juncture.
--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

Gary S. Terhune wrote:
In order that we might better dissect the obvious problem that is
KB891711.EXE, I'd like to request any and all persons who have
encountered the problems to please do some tests for me and report
the
results according to the schema below. My goal here is to collect
data
in a standardized and methodical manner for MS techs to use. Trying
to
pick through the somewhat haphazard anecdotal evidence that has been
posted thus far would make the task more difficult. Please refrain
from
additional discussion of the issue in this thread. I'd like to keep
it
clean of speculation, etc. I'm sure that if the techs want more
specific
tests done, they'll ask, and I'm sure, also, that they will likely
review other posts to this NG for background.

1. How do you connect to the internet? Dial-up, DSL, cable?

2. Without changing anything, and with your normal background apps
enabled, when and how do errors occur, and what are the exact,
verbatim
details of these errors? In the case of non-BSOD errors, include
Registers, please.

3. What, if any, tricks have you discovered that allow you to bypass
errors (other than disabling anything, including KB891711.EXE in
MSCONFIG or otherwise killing processes.)

4. Using your AV settings, disable any real-time or background
functions. Then go into MSCONFIG and disable everything in the
Startup
tab *except* KB891711.EXE. Physically disconnect your system from any
internet connection, then restart. Try various programs, most
especially
IE or whatever your default browser is. Yes, I know you won't get
anywhere, yet.

5. Whether or not errors occur in step 4, reconnect your system to
the
internet and attempt to go online. Report any errors. (You may want
to
restart again before this step.) Do not stay online if you actually
make
it there. No AV and no Firewall mean you're a ripe target for
invasion.
Quit your browser and then immediately disconnect the physical
connection. Go into MSCONFIG and re-enable your firewall, restart and
reconnect to the internet, then test. Next, test with AV enabled.
Then
progressively re-enable the rest of the items in MSCONFIG, testing at
each juncture.

If any Windows ME users are lurking and have problems with
KB891711.EXE
and want to participate, be sure not to disable items in MSCONFIG
related to System Restore (I *think* that's the ones marked by an
*asterisk, but I'm not certain.)

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 07:27:25 -0800, "Gary S. Terhune"
wrote:


1. How do you connect to the internet? Dial-up, DSL, cable?
Dialup
2. Without changing anything, and with your normal background apps
enabled, when and how do errors occur, and what are the exact, verbatim
details of these errors? In the case of non-BSOD errors, include
Registers, please.
no errors because I unchecked KB891711, and I'm afraid to recheck it
3. What, if any, tricks have you discovered
no tricks
4. Using your AV settings, disable any real-time or background
functions. Then go into MSCONFIG and disable everything in the Startup
tab *except* KB891711.EXE. Physically disconnect your system from any
internet connection, then restart. Try various programs, most especially
IE or whatever your default browser is. Yes, I know you won't get
anywhere, yet.
I'm not daring enough to do that
5. Whether or not errors occur in step 4, reconnect your system to the
internet and attempt to go online. Report any errors. (You may want to
restart again before this step.) Do not stay online if you actually make
it there. No AV and no Firewall mean you're a ripe target for invasion.
Quit your browser and then immediately disconnect the physical
connection. Go into MSCONFIG and re-enable your firewall, restart and
reconnect to the internet, then test. Next, test with AV enabled. Then
progressively re-enable the rest of the items in MSCONFIG, testing at
each juncture.
not doing that either because, when IE crashes, I don't just go to the
blue screen. Instead, my whole system freezes and won't do one darned
thing until I flip the switch on the computer, then turn it back on.
I'm not going to continue flipping the switch and make a bad thing
worse.

While many of you find computer problems like this to be intriguing, I
find them frightening.

Beth

It appears that my first reply did not come through, so I'll summarize
my experience. I use cable. After I downloaded KB 891711 and 888113,
when I rebooted as soon as the quick start menu loaded, I got the blue
screen and an error message. Unfortunately, I did not write the error
message down, altho (as will be noted) I got it several times, but I
think it was 0X8007003. Each time I rebooted, I got the same result.
So, I went into Safe Mode and used System Restore to go back before the
download, and everything was OK; however, my download history noted
that the two updates were successfully downloaded. The next day I got
the Update alert and, foolishly, updated them again, with the same
result, and the same remedy. This time my update history noted two
successful downloads.

I checked MSCONFIG for starting programs and neither KB was listed.
I'm confused here. The updates were noted to be successful, but each
time I went back before the updates. Does that mean the downloads were
successful, but they haven't been installed? They are not in my start
menu and a search for them revealed nothing.

I'm not going to do the rest as my puter is working now and I intend to
keep it that way.

Gary,

You said that KB891711 was an "obvious problem" and it sounds like it is for
many users. However, for my computer -- other than the odd fact that it
loads at startup and shows in MSCONFIG -- I have seen no effect of any
kind. I'm a Win98SE user, cable hookup, Firefox browser. Hope my good
fortune holds up!

================================================== ===================
"Gary S. Terhune" wrote in message
...
In order that we might better dissect the obvious problem that is
KB891711.EXE, I'd like to request any and all persons who have
encountered the problems to please do some tests for me and report the
results according to the schema below. My goal here is to collect data
in a standardized and methodical manner for MS techs to use. Trying to
pick through the somewhat haphazard anecdotal evidence that has been
posted thus far would make the task more difficult. Please refrain from
additional discussion of the issue in this thread. I'd like to keep it
clean of speculation, etc. I'm sure that if the techs want more specific
tests done, they'll ask, and I'm sure, also, that they will likely
review other posts to this NG for background.

1. How do you connect to the internet? Dial-up, DSL, cable?

2. Without changing anything, and with your normal background apps
enabled, when and how do errors occur, and what are the exact, verbatim
details of these errors? In the case of non-BSOD errors, include
Registers, please.

3. What, if any, tricks have you discovered that allow you to bypass
errors (other than disabling anything, including KB891711.EXE in
MSCONFIG or otherwise killing processes.)

4. Using your AV settings, disable any real-time or background
functions. Then go into MSCONFIG and disable everything in the Startup
tab *except* KB891711.EXE. Physically disconnect your system from any
internet connection, then restart. Try various programs, most especially
IE or whatever your default browser is. Yes, I know you won't get
anywhere, yet.

5. Whether or not errors occur in step 4, reconnect your system to the
internet and attempt to go online. Report any errors. (You may want to
restart again before this step.) Do not stay online if you actually make
it there. No AV and no Firewall mean you're a ripe target for invasion.
Quit your browser and then immediately disconnect the physical
connection. Go into MSCONFIG and re-enable your firewall, restart and
reconnect to the internet, then test. Next, test with AV enabled. Then
progressively re-enable the rest of the items in MSCONFIG, testing at
each juncture.

If any Windows ME users are lurking and have problems with KB891711.EXE
and want to participate, be sure not to disable items in MSCONFIG
related to System Restore (I *think* that's the ones marked by an
*asterisk, but I'm not certain.)

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

...The next day I got the Update alert

Are you running Win98? Do you have Windows Critical Update Notification
Utility (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/224420) installed?
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-Windows (Shell, IE/OE) & Security

In Memoriam, MVP Alex Nichol (1935-2005)
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/e...ts/nichol.mspx


irvingr5 wrote:
It appears that my first reply did not come through, so I'll summarize
my experience. I use cable. After I downloaded KB 891711 and 888113,
when I rebooted as soon as the quick start menu loaded, I got the blue
screen and an error message. Unfortunately, I did not write the error
message down, altho (as will be noted) I got it several times, but I
think it was 0X8007003. Each time I rebooted, I got the same result.
So, I went into Safe Mode and used System Restore to go back before the
download, and everything was OK; however, my download history noted
that the two updates were successfully downloaded. The next day I got
the Update alert and, foolishly, updated them again, with the same
result, and the same remedy. This time my update history noted two
successful downloads.

I checked MSCONFIG for starting programs and neither KB was listed.
I'm confused here. The updates were noted to be successful, but each
time I went back before the updates. Does that mean the downloads were
successful, but they haven't been installed? They are not in my start
menu and a search for them revealed nothing.

I'm not going to do the rest as my puter is working now and I intend to
keep it that way.

Hello, Gary, et. al.,

WinME machines
The only item in msconfig/Startup related to System Restore under WinME is
the *statemgr, the State Manager responsible for supervising the
launch/execution of both System File Protect and System Restore. Unchecking
*statemgr in msconfig will disable both functions.

There is an extensive discussion of the KB 891711 problem, particularly in
....windowsme.general, where it is yet quite uncertain what the important
contributing cause/s is/are. An earlier suggestion that only early AMD
cpu's of 700 MHz are responsible appears not to be true.
Another suggestion is tentatively implicating certain BIOS's, as seen in an
earlier Win Update problem.
Other less probable causes include the chipset and the video adapter/driver.

We believe we have ruled out NAV and Live Update as the culprit.

HTH,
--
Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS
Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm

http://www.microsoft.com/athome/secu...t/default.aspx
In Memorium: Alex Nichol
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/e...ts/nichol.mspx
Your cooperation is very appreciated.
------
"Gary S. Terhune" wrote in message
...
In order that we might better dissect the obvious problem that is
KB891711.EXE, I'd like to request any and all persons who have
encountered the problems to please do some tests for me and report the
results according to the schema below. My goal here is to collect data
in a standardized and methodical manner for MS techs to use. Trying to
pick through the somewhat haphazard anecdotal evidence that has been
posted thus far would make the task more difficult. Please refrain from
additional discussion of the issue in this thread. I'd like to keep it
clean of speculation, etc. I'm sure that if the techs want more specific
tests done, they'll ask, and I'm sure, also, that they will likely
review other posts to this NG for background.

1. How do you connect to the internet? Dial-up, DSL, cable?

2. Without changing anything, and with your normal background apps
enabled, when and how do errors occur, and what are the exact, verbatim
details of these errors? In the case of non-BSOD errors, include
Registers, please.

3. What, if any, tricks have you discovered that allow you to bypass
errors (other than disabling anything, including KB891711.EXE in
MSCONFIG or otherwise killing processes.)

4. Using your AV settings, disable any real-time or background
functions. Then go into MSCONFIG and disable everything in the Startup
tab *except* KB891711.EXE. Physically disconnect your system from any
internet connection, then restart. Try various programs, most especially
IE or whatever your default browser is. Yes, I know you won't get
anywhere, yet.

5. Whether or not errors occur in step 4, reconnect your system to the
internet and attempt to go online. Report any errors. (You may want to
restart again before this step.) Do not stay online if you actually make
it there. No AV and no Firewall mean you're a ripe target for invasion.
Quit your browser and then immediately disconnect the physical
connection. Go into MSCONFIG and re-enable your firewall, restart and
reconnect to the internet, then test. Next, test with AV enabled. Then
progressively re-enable the rest of the items in MSCONFIG, testing at
each juncture.

If any Windows ME users are lurking and have problems with KB891711.EXE
and want to participate, be sure not to disable items in MSCONFIG
related to System Restore (I *think* that's the ones marked by an
*asterisk, but I'm not certain.)

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

X-Post to WinME General.

Jack, would you and the others please consider pinging your Lead(s) about
this problem? Several of us are trying to 'kick it up a notch' by doing so.
Thanks.
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-Windows (Shell, IE/OE) & Security

In Memoriam, MVP Alex Nichol (1935-2005)
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/e...ts/nichol.mspx

Jack E Martinelli wrote:
Hello, Gary, et. al.,

WinME machines
The only item in msconfig/Startup related to System Restore under WinME is
the *statemgr, the State Manager responsible for supervising the
launch/execution of both System File Protect and System Restore.
Unchecking *statemgr in msconfig will disable both functions.

There is an extensive discussion of the KB 891711 problem, particularly in
...windowsme.general, where it is yet quite uncertain what the important
contributing cause/s is/are. An earlier suggestion that only early AMD
cpu's of 700 MHz are responsible appears not to be true.
Another suggestion is tentatively implicating certain BIOS's, as seen in
an earlier Win Update problem.
Other less probable causes include the chipset and the video
adapter/driver.

We believe we have ruled out NAV and Live Update as the culprit.

Thanks for the report, Jack! Sounds like you guys have it about as well
nailed down as anyone else, g.

Reason I cautioned against disabling *statemgr is that disabling SFP and
SR also deletes the "restore points" (right?)

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

"Jack E Martinelli" wrote in message
...
Hello, Gary, et. al.,

WinME machines
The only item in msconfig/Startup related to System Restore under
WinME is
the *statemgr, the State Manager responsible for supervising the
launch/execution of both System File Protect and System Restore.
Unchecking
*statemgr in msconfig will disable both functions.

There is an extensive discussion of the KB 891711 problem,
particularly in
...windowsme.general, where it is yet quite uncertain what the
important
contributing cause/s is/are. An earlier suggestion that only early
AMD
cpu's of 700 MHz are responsible appears not to be true.
Another suggestion is tentatively implicating certain BIOS's, as seen
in an
earlier Win Update problem.
Other less probable causes include the chipset and the video
adapter/driver.

We believe we have ruled out NAV and Live Update as the culprit.