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Scandisk surface scan - how to clear the flag



 
 
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  #21  
Old December 17th 05, 05:29 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.setup
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Default Scandisk surface scan - how to clear the flag

"budgie" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 15:49:43 -0500, "glee" wrote:

"budgie" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 22:57:08 -0500, Bill Watt wrote:


(snip)

Running Scandisk /fix may remove the flag.

I tried a "scandisk /?" in Start-Run and it said:

For information about the command-line parameters supported by ScanDisk for
Windows, look up 'checking for errors, in disks' in the Windows Help index.
Then view the topic 'Checking your disk for errors every time Windows starts'.

Under Windows Help the nearest to that wording was:

To check for disk errors when your computer starts

and it only shows /a, /n and /p as command line switches.


That's because whenever you call scandisk from within Windows, even to check
parameters, it passes off to scandskw, and then you get the message you saw, and

the
params for scandskw

Boot to DOS and check the params for scandisk from there.


Just saw Bill's update - he was referring to Scanreg ;-)

As to your original problem, boot to DOS (not a DOS window in Windows):


(snip instructions)

know that off by heart - do it VERY often.

Then run scandisk from the command prompt, thusly:
scandisk /all /surface

When done it will return you to the command prompt...press Ctrl+Alt+Delete to
restart.

This will often fix the problem you are having.


Why should a surface scan under DOS give a different outcome than under Windows?


"Because it does".... ;-)
I don't know precisely what makes the difference, but it has proven itself
repeatedly, over time. Of course, if you believe the drive is bad, as you mention
in your replies to Noel, then it won't make a difference.....but we aren't yet sure
the drive is bad, so trying my suggestion will hurt nothing and may clarify
something.
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm


  #22  
Old December 17th 05, 06:47 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.setup
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Posts: n/a
Default Scandisk surface scan - how to clear the flag

On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 23:29:50 -0500, "glee" wrote:

"budgie" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 15:49:43 -0500, "glee" wrote:

"budgie" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 22:57:08 -0500, Bill Watt wrote:


(snip)

Running Scandisk /fix may remove the flag.

I tried a "scandisk /?" in Start-Run and it said:

For information about the command-line parameters supported by ScanDisk for
Windows, look up 'checking for errors, in disks' in the Windows Help index.
Then view the topic 'Checking your disk for errors every time Windows starts'.

Under Windows Help the nearest to that wording was:

To check for disk errors when your computer starts

and it only shows /a, /n and /p as command line switches.

That's because whenever you call scandisk from within Windows, even to check
parameters, it passes off to scandskw, and then you get the message you saw, and

the
params for scandskw

Boot to DOS and check the params for scandisk from there.


Just saw Bill's update - he was referring to Scanreg ;-)

As to your original problem, boot to DOS (not a DOS window in Windows):


(snip instructions)

know that off by heart - do it VERY often.

Then run scandisk from the command prompt, thusly:
scandisk /all /surface

When done it will return you to the command prompt...press Ctrl+Alt+Delete to
restart.

This will often fix the problem you are having.


Why should a surface scan under DOS give a different outcome than under Windows?


"Because it does".... ;-)
I don't know precisely what makes the difference, but it has proven itself
repeatedly, over time.


One should never discount any reported "undocumented feature" in MS-ware.

Of course, if you believe the drive is bad, as you mention
in your replies to Noel, then it won't make a difference.....but we aren't yet sure
the drive is bad, so trying my suggestion will hurt nothing and may clarify
something.


I am absolutely certain that it is a drive issue. There are other factors which
point to it - to have included all the "evidence" would have resulted in a very
lengthy post. All I originally sought was a quick pointer to a check-box type
feature - which I found anyway.

Having said that, I have no objection whatsoever to trying Scandisk in true DOS.
(The main reason I stay with 98SE is a number of legacy apps which either don't
perform, or perform badly, under later O/S's. Also some hardware used by these
apps requires direct port I/O.)

On the next occasion I feel able to allocate three+ hours I will give it a
whirl.
  #23  
Old December 17th 05, 06:52 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.setup
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Posts: n/a
Default Scandisk surface scan - how to clear the flag

On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 19:31:31 -0500, Bill Watt wrote:


Reply at end:

On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 18:59:41 +0800, budgie wrote:

On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 10:01:54 -0000, "Noel Paton"
wrote:


"budgie" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 14:43:17 -0000, "Noel Paton"

wrote:

I say again - what makes you think the problem is with the HD - It's very
unlikely that it is!(especially since it passes a 3hr+ thorough scan!!)

You can test the HD, using the PowerMax utility at www.maxtor.com - but if
you won't believe advice, you probably won't believe the results of the
test, either so go out and waste your money on an unnecessary HD, and then
find out it's a £5 fan that started sticking which actually caused the
problem.

It IS the HDD. I can hear it drop - sounds like an olde drive
head-parking
"clunk" and then I hear it spin up again. On one occasion I was fast
enough to
hear the "drop" and get several finger ontgo the underside of the drive,
and
felt the effect of reapplication of power to the motor.

The case is open, and I can see the processor fan. Processor temp is
reported
at typically 38C - currently days here are in the 20's.

S.M.A.R.T. is enabled and I have run extensive testing with PowerMax.
Neither
reports any problem.

In that case, you need to check the power supply - it may be that that's
overheating!


Nope, it's absolutely loafing too.

If PowerMax says there's nothing wrong with the drive, there's very little
chance that there is anything wrong with the drive.


The "clunk" from the drive, the subsequent spin-up, and Windows reaction all
tell me otherwise.

When it's going, it's going fine. Hence the clean diagnostics. Then it has the
hiccups which it smartly recovers from. I'm assuming that the SMART doesn't
report a problem because the drive is "out of it" for that moment.

But thanks for your input.


I'm aware that Scandisk and a Surface Scan show no errors when you
run them. Here is some info I ran into:

The file system also detects when Windows 98 shuts down improperly.
If Windows 98 is shut down without going through the standard
shutdown sequence, real mode Scandisk will be executed at the next
startup. The purpose of running Scandisk is to correct potential
errors in the file allocation table (FAT) before continuing the boot
process.

In the event that a Disk read/write error is encountered during
normal Windows 98 operation, a flag will also be set to run real
mode Scandisk with Surface Scan.

The flag is set in the FAT. ( File Allocation Table ) =======

Completing a Surface Scan is supposed to remove the Flag but
apparently that isn't happening for you.

Look in the Scandisk.ini file in the Windows\Command folder. Look at
this section:
[CUSTOM]
DriveSummary = Off ; Auto, On, Off
AllSummary = Off ; Auto, On, Off
Surface = Never ; Never, Always, Prompt ==========
CheckHost = Always ; Never, Always, Prompt
SaveLog = Append ; Off, Append, Overwrite
Undo = Never ; Prompt, Never

Check Surface= yours may be set to Always. Change it to Never or
Prompt. A setting of Always would explain your problem. The
semi-colons ( ; ) make the following text only a remark.


Currently all six are set as per your example. But bear in mind that a day or
two back in this saga, I found the check-box in MSCONFIG for "disable scandisk
after bad shutdown" and it is checked.
  #24  
Old December 17th 05, 07:15 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.setup
external usenet poster
 
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Default Scandisk surface scan - how to clear the flag

Look at the MSDOS.SYS file and in the Options section stick this in the

AutoScan=0

John

budgie wrote:

I have a 40G Maxtor C: drive which *very* occasionally seems to power down and
restart spontaneously. This is maybe once a month. A flag is obviously set, as
Scandisk (98SE) is invoked at the next boot and not only does the quick scan but
wants to do the full surface scan.

Every time I have let it do the full scan (200+ minutes BTW) it has come up
clean as a whistle. Absolutely nothing found. If I exit the surface scan, the
flag remains set until I eventually relent. The problem is the three and a
half hours of delay.

Without wanting a lecture on why "Windows knows best" and "one day, ..." can
someone tell me if there is a way to prevent Windows wanting to do a surface
scan on these - or other - occasions?

  #25  
Old December 17th 05, 07:59 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.setup
external usenet poster
 
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Default Scandisk surface scan - how to clear the flag

On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 13:52:43 +0800, budgie wrote:

SNIP

I'm aware that Scandisk and a Surface Scan show no errors when you
run them. Here is some info I ran into:

The file system also detects when Windows 98 shuts down improperly.
If Windows 98 is shut down without going through the standard
shutdown sequence, real mode Scandisk will be executed at the next
startup. The purpose of running Scandisk is to correct potential
errors in the file allocation table (FAT) before continuing the boot
process.

In the event that a Disk read/write error is encountered during
normal Windows 98 operation, a flag will also be set to run real
mode Scandisk with Surface Scan.

The flag is set in the FAT. ( File Allocation Table ) =======

Completing a Surface Scan is supposed to remove the Flag but
apparently that isn't happening for you.

Look in the Scandisk.ini file in the Windows\Command folder. Look at
this section:
[CUSTOM]
DriveSummary = Off ; Auto, On, Off
AllSummary = Off ; Auto, On, Off
Surface = Never ; Never, Always, Prompt ==========
CheckHost = Always ; Never, Always, Prompt
SaveLog = Append ; Off, Append, Overwrite
Undo = Never ; Prompt, Never

Check Surface= yours may be set to Always. Change it to Never or
Prompt. A setting of Always would explain your problem. The
semi-colons ( ; ) make the following text only a remark.


Currently all six are set as per your example. But bear in mind that a day or
two back in this saga, I found the check-box in MSCONFIG for "disable scandisk
after bad shutdown" and it is checked.


That probably changed AutoScan=1 to AutoScan=0 (zero) in the
Msdos.sys file in the root. The default is 1, zero does not run it
after a bad shutdown.

The best situation would be to enable Scandisk after a bad shutdown
to protect your data but not run the Surface Scan automatically,
only prompt you if there is a need. Like bad read/writes.

Maybe uncheck the option in Msconfig and try Surface = Prompt in
the Scandisk.ini file.

BTW Win.com checks the FAT for any Scandisk or Surface Scan flags
at boot.

Anyway, Good Luck,

Regards,

Bill Watt
Computer Help and Information http://home.ptd.net/~bwatt/

  #26  
Old December 17th 05, 01:13 PM posted to microsoft.public.win98.setup
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Default Scandisk surface scan - how to clear the flag

"budgie" wrote in message
...
snip
Having said that, I have no objection whatsoever to trying Scandisk in true DOS.
snip
On the next occasion I feel able to allocate three+ hours I will give it a
whirl.


:-)
Yes, the time required to complete a surface scan on a large drive can really limit
the windows of opportunity.
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm


  #27  
Old December 19th 05, 07:38 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.setup
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Posts: n/a
Default Scandisk surface scan - how to clear the flag

On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 11:02:53 +0800, budgie put finger
to keyboard and composed:

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 14:43:17 -0000, "Noel Paton"
wrote:

I say again - what makes you think the problem is with the HD - It's very
unlikely that it is!(especially since it passes a 3hr+ thorough scan!!)

You can test the HD, using the PowerMax utility at www.maxtor.com - but if
you won't believe advice, you probably won't believe the results of the
test, either so go out and waste your money on an unnecessary HD, and then
find out it's a £5 fan that started sticking which actually caused the
problem.


It IS the HDD. I can hear it drop - sounds like an olde drive head-parking
"clunk" and then I hear it spin up again. On one occasion I was fast enough to
hear the "drop" and get several finger ontgo the underside of the drive, and
felt the effect of reapplication of power to the motor.


I once had a problem like this. It turned out to be a fatigued pin in
the PS connector. Can you get your HD to spin down by wiggling the
connector or by tugging on the harness?

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
  #28  
Old December 19th 05, 08:31 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.setup
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Scandisk surface scan - how to clear the flag

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 17:38:03 +1100, Franc Zabkar
wrote:

On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 11:02:53 +0800, budgie put finger
to keyboard and composed:

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 14:43:17 -0000, "Noel Paton"
wrote:

I say again - what makes you think the problem is with the HD - It's very
unlikely that it is!(especially since it passes a 3hr+ thorough scan!!)

You can test the HD, using the PowerMax utility at www.maxtor.com - but if
you won't believe advice, you probably won't believe the results of the
test, either so go out and waste your money on an unnecessary HD, and then
find out it's a £5 fan that started sticking which actually caused the
problem.


It IS the HDD. I can hear it drop - sounds like an olde drive head-parking
"clunk" and then I hear it spin up again. On one occasion I was fast enough to
hear the "drop" and get several finger ontgo the underside of the drive, and
felt the effect of reapplication of power to the motor.


I once had a problem like this. It turned out to be a fatigued pin in
the PS connector. Can you get your HD to spin down by wiggling the
connector or by tugging on the harness?


Interesting parallel, but I have checked that and the power connector is not the
cause. See your email.
 




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