Disk Recovery ( Computer Failure )

"BAP" wrote in message
...
|
|
| "MEB" wrote:
|
|
|
| "BAP" wrote in message
| ...
| | The start of this new Post regarding the 'Computer Failure' Post was
| | suggested by "MEB", and rightly so, as the that earlier Post was
creating
| | some confusion.
| |
| | As was discussed in the 'Computer Failure' Post, the Microtime
Computer,
| | that I have been using for several years, has failed and I find it
rather
| | difficult to get it operational, again. There is a Primary Master and
a
| | Secondary Master HD's installed in it. There are folders in both that
have
| | Data that I would like to recover. A more recent Computer, a Sony
VAIO,
| | that I am currently using, appears to have all that I would need to
| connect
| | those HD's and recover the desired Data and back up the same, if
desired,
| | on CD's or Iomega Zip 250 MB Disks. The only obstacle is of possible
| | compatibility issues.

{DELETED MATERIALS CONTAIN VAIO IFORMATION-
(refer to the post containing it for reference

| | Hopefully, this will mean something to you, "MEB" or anyone else able
to
| help.
| | Thank you in advance for any reply!
|
| One issue you failed to mention, which may or will be an issue, is that
the
| other target drive [OS disk} had to be started in the other system by
using
| a boot disk or other work around.
| ****
| ?"MEB", that was not the case. Early on, there was nothing wrong with the
| booting cycle, unless I
| needed or wanted to start with a Boot Disk. If I did that and inserted the
| Boot Disk before
| starting the booting cycle, at the Dos Prompt I would find myself in the
| Primary Slave HD. The
| Master HD would not be available. This surfaced when I replaced the
original
| HD, 10 GB in size,
| with a Maxtor with 40 GB. The MAX-BLAST software, that came with the
Maxtor
| HD, created
| an overlay. As mentioned, in a rather old post, few years back, in order
| to boot from a Boot
| Disk properly, I had to break the progress of booting with a CTRL Key and
| opt to boot from the
| Boot Disk that had to be inserted at that time.
| ***

AAAAAh, thanks for clarifying, the MAXTOR drive contains a drive overlay -
that is the Microtime OS disk which you mentioned in the other postings,
which is not recognized when placed into other computers.

DRIVE OVERLAY programs use the computer's BIOS translation and access
routines when the algorythms are used to create and then use the overlay
with the manufacturer's tools.
This can even affect whether the hidden partition for the overlay
translation is addressed properly. Overlays are not Plug and Play, changing
to meet differring BIOS needs and translations, PARTICULARLY as the drive
adapter chip may interact with the BIOS in a different fashion, such as when
the drive IS supported within the BIOS verses when the overlay was need to
use the drive in an unsupportive BIOS and/or OS.
REMEMBER THIS: A different BIOS on another computer, OR *change within the
original BIOS* related to that hard drive, will likely change how that
overlay addresses the drive.

|
| But we can work from this {BTW, good
| information to work from, thanks}. I had also created a new posting for
your
| VAIO attempt, which outlines what had been found to that point * Sony
| VAIO - WinME - hard drive usage and data recovery *. But we can work
from
| here with this new information, as long as everyone reviews the other
| postings as well so redundant suggestions aren't provided.
|
|
|
| I also created two new posts for your other computers:
| Risys running Win31 - 98SE disk recovery
| Microtime - Win98SE - computer diagnostics and repair
|
| There is a small program which might provide some useful information
| provided by MiTeC:
| http://www.mitec.cz/Downloads/msi.zip - 782K - system information - goto
| Storage Physical Devices for drive identification
| http://www.mitec.cz/ - main page with tools

The above provides lots of information, without the necessity of an
installation of another bloated Windows program.

|
| You can likely go ahead and try to connect the DATA drive to the VAIO
as it
| may already configured as SLAVE *IF* it was on the same cable as the
| other/OS drive in the Microtime. Some info he
|
http://support.gateway.com/support/m...5896/05896.htm
|
| If the drive works, pull the data off.
|
| ****
| ?"MEB", I did that and it worked, although the there was some confusion
| about the ID of the Disks shown by 'My Computer'. Normally, Disk C: is
the
| Partition 0 of the Primary Master - D: Partition 1 - E: DVD - F: CD_ROM -
G:
| Zip Drive.

Did you forget that I had advised of that in the prior post/thread? Let me
repost so its in this discussion:
- - - PRIOR POST - - - -
| MEB:
| Here are potential issues when connecting a drive to the secondary
| connector on IDE0/channel1 - IRQ 14 [use SYSTEM Device Manager Hard
Disk
| Controllers Primary IDE Controller settings and resources to view].:
| *****
| BAP
| Sorry, I can't seem to find my way around to get to that pane.
|
| MEB - you are running ME which will have that in a different area.
|
| ***
|
| MEB:
| 1. The present drive [apparently 60 gig] is partitioned with C {the
primary
| boot partition} as a
| 15.5 gig drive, adding another drive would move the second partition
| presently being seen as the
| 41.6 gig drive D to drive E. The new hard drive would have to be
configured
| as a slave and the
| first hard drive as master with their jumpers or errors and potential disk
| corruption could occur.
| There could also be a hidden partition involved for SONY specific recovery
| or other, so it may be
| larger [an 80 gig drive perhaps, though that won't presently affect what
we
| are discussing], what
| is the actual model and make of that drive?
| There MAY potentially be a hard drive conflict if the drives are not
| compatible. What are the two drive's makes and models?
|
| 2. The two drives on the second channel [CD and DVD] will be moved to
drive
| F and G, but only IF the OS has not had its drives limited to only see
| drives up to drive F: limited by either the driver settings, system
| settings, or something like TweakUI which modified the registry or an
| inclusion in the system.ini or config.sys [lastdrive=*]. If this is the
| case, the lost/un-recognized drive will still cause errors even though it
is
| not listed in Windows, it is still holding memory and CMOS/BIOS addressing
| which Windows may try to assign to other needs, or may cause conflicting
| system device issues..
|
| 3. The Iomega drive adds potential issues to the mix if it has been set to
| always use some specific drive letter or IRQ, and/or if [as sometimes
| happens] it is incompatible with this older drive you are attempting to
| access.
|
| 4. A drive overlay may be part of the issue, but beyond that, we may also
be
| running across a disk or disks which have had Drive Space or Double Space
| [or another drive compressor] used.
|
------ END POST FROM OTHER DISCUSSIONS ^^^

| With the Microtime Primary Slave in place, C: was still Sony's HD Primary
| Master Partition 0 - D: the Microtime's Disk - E: Partition 1 of Sony -
G:
| was showing as the ZIP disk. However, if I inserted a CD in the CD_ROM
drive,
| G became the CD_ROM Disk - F:, showing as removable Disk, was, in effect,
| the ZIP Drive.

This is exactly as I had advised.
This also indicates that the ZIP disk has been *assigned* a drive letter.

| No matter, 'though, as I was able to copy the contents of the Microtime's
| Primary Slave HD.

*STEP 1 - SUCCESS* accomplished: now that AUTO had been set in the BIOS,
the Microtime DATA/storage disk has been recovered.

| All my steps taken, to configure the Microtime's Primary Master and make
it
| a Slave, did not succeed. The configuration shown on the HD about the
jumper
| positions did not work. However, the system detected that HD as a Primary
| Slave.
| This was shown: (besides other info)
| Primary Master Disk: 61492 MB UDMA 5
| Orimary Slave Disk: 30750 MB UDMA 5
| Secondary Master Disk: CD-ROM UDMA 2
| Secondary Slave Disk: CD-ROM UDMA 2

OKAY, let's not get ahead of ourselves here.

The disk is a MAXTOR - WHAT {model/number}?

|
| Without the Microtime's HD connected, this was shown:
| Primary Master Disk: 61492 MB UDMA 5
| Orimary Slave Disk: None
| Secondary Master Disk: CD-ROM UDMA 2
| Secondary Slave Disk: CD-ROM UDMA 2
|
| It was bothersome to see that the size of the Microtime's HD did not
appear
| to have the size that I thought it should have. I will check further into
| that.

PLEASE wait until we can determine how to address the MAXTOR disk in this
new BIOS. Obviously the BIOS has built-in support, so to fudge the disk and
attempt to access properly, we MAY need to attempt to manually set the BIOS
to mimic what the Microtime would have used AND that drive will need some
adjustments to its jumpers {configure as SLAVE} and its MBR/partition table
{its presently configured with a hidden overlay partition AND as a BOOT
disk}.
HOWEVER, finish reading this post before responding.

*IF* there's nothing you need from that drive, then use MAXTOR's [now
SEAGATE] disk tool to remove the overlay and the disk will be usable in ALL
BIOSes which support it natively. DO NOT attempt to use fdisk and format to
remove the overlay and its partition.

*IF* you want to recover that dsk:

1. REMOVE the present SONY VAIO master disk or unhook the ribbon AND power
cabling. Connect the ribbon and power to the Microtime MAXTOR mater/OS disk,
leaving it as MASTER; have the DATA Microtime hard drive configured as
SLAVE, connected to the same ribbon. It would be best to disconnect the ZIP
drive, and the CD and DVD for this part of the recovery attempt, as well, as
they were not part of the prior setup on the Microtime. To disable the CD
and DVD, disconnect their power, and the ribbon from the motherboard {noting
where the color indicator/stripe was in relation to the MB connector}

2. Attempt to boot the computer into SAFE MODE. Do NOT use NORMAL Startup as
that will attempt to reconfigure the Windows system which may not be
successful.
In Safe Mode, the disks will be using DOS compatibility mode, and the MASTER
should have used the Drive Overlay upon initial boot.

3. IF there is a successful SAFE MODE boot, pull any files or data off the
MASTER and put it on the SLAVE. IF the slave has insuficient space, as you
now have that data saved, DELETE the SLAVE drive files, and transfer what
ever files you need to it. Make sure those deleted files aren't taking up
space by being stored in the Recycle Bin.

4. IF you successfully retreive that data or files, you will need to
determine what you intend to use that former Microtime OS disk for in the
future.

5. IF SAFE MODE fails, attempt to start in pure DOS with either a boot
EBD/recovery floppy [preferred] or from the Windows Menu [Command Prompt
Only]. Type - fdisk /status - and post what it found.


| At any rate, 'My Computer' did not show this HD in the list of Disk
Drives.
| I wish there would be a way, but, I am glad that most of my data has been
| recovered.
| Thank you for all the suggestions.
| ***

Look above, and try that to see if that works, if not, we can attempt to
make some modifications to the VAIO BIOS HD settings OR we can use some
other recovery techniques. For that we will need the model number of the
Microtime computer and/or the motherboard make and model/number so we can
see what the BIOS was.

| Checking for that drive shows it is actually a Hitachi drive DeskStar
16GP:
| http://www.hitachigst.com/tech/techl.../Deskstar_16GP
| Check those Hitachi jumpers!
|
| You can also try the drive fitness test, but do use no destructive
tests
| until you recover the data:
| http://www.hgst.com/hdd/support/download.htm#DFT
| http://www.hgst.com/hdd/support/down...2_v412_b01.EXE Windows
| creator, or
| http://www.hgst.com/hdd/support/down...01_install.IMG -
if
| you already have a diskette program like WinImage installed
|

If you intend to continue using that former DATA drive, it would be best to
test it for any potential failures. Use the tool.
ALSO if you recover the files/data off the MAXTOR, it would be best to use
Maxtor's {Seagate's] tools to remove the overlay, "reset" the disk, and
format, and to then test the disk, this time without the drive overlay.

Once we get these two disks recovered OR determine that we can't use the
VAIO with the former Microtime MASTER/OS disk, we can attempt to fix that
DVD and CDROM issue you previously mentioned.

*IF the VAIO fails or you want to try the Risys*, then you can use the above
outlined 5 steps in the Risys - WIN31 system to attempt recovery of the OS
disk. Likely that computer WILL need the overlay, and its older BIOS may
more closely match the Microtime. IF the drive is unsupported, go into the
BIOS, write down its present settings for later re-use with that Win31 hard
drive and any others, and manually set the BIOS hard drive settings to the
correct settings for both the master [Microtime] MAXTOR and the
secondary/slave IBM/HITACHI.

--

MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
_________

BAP wrote:
"dadiOH" wrote:

BAP wrote:

snip all

You are making what you want to do just WAAAYY harder than it is.
All you need do is remove a drive from the old computer, put it in
the new computer, boot and then copy the files you want.

The only thing that makes a drive "master", slave", or "cable
select" is the position of the jumper on the back of the drive.
Different manufacturers may have different positions for the same
thing but there is normally a self explanatory diagram on the back
of the drive; if not, you can determine the correct jumper
position for whatever at the manufacturer's site.

When putting old drive in new machine you can either hook it to the
primary IDE cable or the secondary one. If to the primary, you
would want old drive jumpered as slave as the new, existing drive
is master. If you hook it to the secondary channel, it can be
either master or slave. If it were me, I'd make it master after
unhooking any CD/DVD drives from that channel.

****

I am not quite clear about the one you are referring as the
secondary cable. It sounds that it is the one to which the CD_Rom
and the DVD are connected.

Correct
____________

Are you suggesting for me to remove the
CD or the DVD or both and hook to that cable either the
Microtime's primary Master or the Primary Slave without having to
worry about their configuration....Master or Slave? Thanks, for
your reply! (See my reply to "MEB" with today's Date)

Yes. You said you had two hard drives in the old computer and that
one was primary master, the other secondary master; consequently you
could put either - one at a time - into the new computer on that now
free cable without having to worry about reconfiguring their jumper.
Hook the old drive onto the cable where the CD/DVD were using the same
plug position on that cable as was used in the old computer.


However, you now mention a primary slave in that computer and that
confuses me. Do you have three hard drives in that computer or did
you misspeak whne you said, "There is a Primary Master and a
Secondary Master HD's installed in it."?



--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

dadiOH wrote:
| BAP wrote:
|
| snip all
|
| You are making what you want to do just WAAAYY harder than it is. All
| you need do is remove a drive from the old computer, put it in the new
| computer, boot and then copy the files you want.
|

(1) There could be "geometry" considerations. For instance, the
transferred drive may have a drive overlay that is not needed on the
target machine, or visa versa. Or, BIOS may need to be informed of
geometry settings.

(2) Depending on the number & type of partitions on the existing hard
drive(s) of the target machine & on the hard drive(s) to be added to it,
drive letters may change when it is added...

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=51978
Order in Which MS-DOS and Windows Assign Drive Letters

If all is well, C: will remain C:-- BUT the added partition(s) may end
up inserted between other existing partitions. If so, consideration must
be given to Registry, shortcut & .ini ties (if any) to the displaced
drive number(s).

Therefore, I wouldn't click to run much of anything, but just hurry up &
copy the data. Then, remove the added drive to get back to normal. Or,
try something like...
http://www.pcmag.com/ 's COA2 will help with this. After you move a
file, folder or drive letter, you may use COA2 to change system
references to the new address. It will change references in the current
Registry and all .ini's & shortcuts on all drives. Nothing else,
however, is changed, including Registry (or other) zipped backups,
Autoexec.bat, Config.sys, or anything. And, there was a reference in
Autoexec.bat that I needed to change (for a CD-R/W drive letter). It
also will not change references that are binary, but those are generally
in MRU lists & will auto-adjust in time.

I see BAP has two partitions on a single hard drive in the destination
(Sony VAIO)...

Disk 0, Partition 0, 15.63GB (shown as Local Disk C: in ‘My Computer’})
Disk 0, Partition 1, 41.64GB (shown as Local Disk D

So... the issue will come up! It's first of all important to know
whether that Dartition is a primary or an extended partition. Next,
one must know how many & what type partitions are on the hard drive(s)
to be added to this machine.

| The only thing that makes a drive "master", slave", or "cable select"
| is the position of the jumper on the back of the drive.

There is also a "single" setting for certain Western Digital drives like
mine. It is used when the drive is alone on its cable. And consideration
must be given to whether the Master must be on the end & the Slave on
the middle connector; but that may be (not sure) a consideration for
cable select only.

| Different
| manufacturers may have different positions for the same thing but
| there is normally a self explanatory diagram on the back of the drive;
| if not, you can determine the correct jumper position for whatever at
| the manufacturer's site.
|
| When putting old drive in new machine you can either hook it to the
| primary IDE cable or the secondary one. If to the primary, you would
| want old drive jumpered as slave as the new, existing drive is master.
| If you hook it to the secondary channel, it can be either master or
| slave. If it were me, I'd make it master after unhooking any CD/DVD
| drives from that channel.
|

The CD/DVD gets its letter after all partitions. Replacing it with a
hard drive, could cause displacement to existing drive letters.

|
| --
|
| dadiOH
| ____________________________
|
| dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
| ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
| LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
| Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
Should things get worse after this,
PCR

"MEB" meb@not wrote in message
...
| "BAP" wrote in message
| ...
| | "MEB" wrote:
| | "BAP" wrote in message
| | ...
| | | The start of this new Post regarding the 'Computer Failure' Post was
| | | suggested by "MEB", and rightly so, as the that earlier Post was
| creating
| | | some confusion.

This lower section from the prior post MAY cause confusion, sorry if it
does. See the addendum below it.

|
| If you intend to continue using that former DATA drive, it would be best
to
| test it for any potential failures. Use the tool.
| ALSO if you recover the files/data off the MAXTOR, it would be best to
use
| Maxtor's {Seagate's] tools to remove the overlay, "reset" the disk, and
| format, and to then test the disk, this time without the drive overlay.
|
| Once we get these two disks recovered OR determine that we can't use the
| VAIO with the former Microtime MASTER/OS disk, we can attempt to fix that
| DVD and CDROM issue you previously mentioned.
|
| *IF the VAIO fails or you want to try the Risys*, then you can use the
above
| outlined 5 steps in the Risys - WIN31 system to attempt recovery of the OS
| disk. Likely that computer WILL need the overlay, and its older BIOS may
| more closely match the Microtime. IF the drive is unsupported, go into the
| BIOS, write down its present settings for later re-use with that Win31
hard
| drive and any others, and manually set the BIOS hard drive settings to the
| correct settings for both the master [Microtime] MAXTOR and the
| secondary/slave IBM/HITACHI.
|
| --
|
| MEB

ADDENDUM

When a hard disk setup program installs a hard drive with an overlay, it
also sets the computer BIOS with the settings it wants to use.
To obtain the BIOS settings necessary for using the drive overlaid disk, we
should look at the original Microtime computer's BIOS for the settings that
were set by the MAXTOR disk setup program.
As the Microtime's BIOS is apparently accessible, enter it and write down
what it holds for all the Master drive's settings [unless it was manually
set at sometime, or if you attempted those prior battery checks, and BIOS
reset and flash disk yet?] and transfer those to which ever computer you use
to attempt recovery. Though there may still be a translation issue, this
would give the best shot at recovery.
IF they have been wiped then it may still be possible on the Risys
computer..

--

MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
_________

"dadiOH" wrote:

BAP wrote:
"dadiOH" wrote:

BAP wrote:

snip all

You are making what you want to do just WAAAYY harder than it is.
All you need do is remove a drive from the old computer, put it in
the new computer, boot and then copy the files you want.

The only thing that makes a drive "master", slave", or "cable
select" is the position of the jumper on the back of the drive.
Different manufacturers may have different positions for the same
thing but there is normally a self explanatory diagram on the back
of the drive; if not, you can determine the correct jumper
position for whatever at the manufacturer's site.

When putting old drive in new machine you can either hook it to the
primary IDE cable or the secondary one. If to the primary, you
would want old drive jumpered as slave as the new, existing drive
is master. If you hook it to the secondary channel, it can be
either master or slave. If it were me, I'd make it master after
unhooking any CD/DVD drives from that channel.

****

I am not quite clear about the one you are referring as the
secondary cable. It sounds that it is the one to which the CD_Rom
and the DVD are connected.

Correct
____________

Are you suggesting for me to remove the
CD or the DVD or both and hook to that cable either the
Microtime's primary Master or the Primary Slave without having to
worry about their configuration....Master or Slave? Thanks, for
your reply! (See my reply to "MEB" with today's Date)

Yes. You said you had two hard drives in the old computer and that
one was primary master, the other secondary master; consequently you
could put either - one at a time - into the new computer on that now
free cable without having to worry about reconfiguring their jumper.
Hook the old drive onto the cable where the CD/DVD were using the same
plug position on that cable as was used in the old computer.


However, you now mention a primary slave in that computer and that
confuses me. Do you have three hard drives in that computer or did
you misspeak whne you said, "There is a Primary Master and a
Secondary Master HD's installed in it."?

****
The terminology has been sort of difficult to keep straight in my mind. The
way I have come to believe is that, regarding the Hard Disks, the one with
the OS is the Primary Master and the I use for Data storage is the Primary
Slave. The CD_ROM and the DVD drives are Secondary Master and secondary
Slave, or viceversa, I think. Is that correct?
By now, you might have seen my reply to "MEB" about the fact that I was able
to recover the Data stored in the Primary Slave of the 'failed Computer' and
the failure to get anywhere with its Primary Master. It sounds that the
Overlay created by MAX-BLAST that came with that HD, a Maxtor, my be creating
problems, according to "MEB". Any possibility that things might work out
better if I were to remove the DVD Disk Drive from the Sony and hook that
Master HD to the vacant cable connection?
Thank you!
***


--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

"MEB", I need time to fully understand the available options and see if I
would feel comfortable in taking some steps to follow up on your suggestions.
For now, some new information.

The label on the Microtime’s Primary Master Disk has this information:
Maxtor HD - Diamond Max Plus8 - 30 GB ATA/133 HDD - Date: 4 Jan. 2003
Code NAR 61590 - LAB: 60058656 - ER - 3.5 Series
The jumpers for a Master are shown to occupy adjacent combinations of top
and bottom pins. The first, closest to the IDE(?) cable, was on the second
and bottom pins. However, while in use on the Microtime Computer as Primary
Master, only the first jumper was in place. To make it a slave, the label
showed two adjacent parallel jumpers on the top row of pins. The first was on
the first and second pin, again, toward the IDE cable. I tried in that
fashion and Sony detected it while
booting, but it would not show it ‘My Computer mix. I tried other
combination, even no jumpers, but all ended up similarly. The Everest
software, downloaded and used as suggested by Glee, did not show a Physical
Device option. The MSI, you suggested, did have that option and I was
surprised to see the Maxtor in that listing. This is what was shown:
- Physical Devices:
IBM- DTLA-307060[58644 MB]
MAXTOR 6E030L0 [29325 MB]
- Removable Drives: A: and G:
- Other Drives: C:, D:, E: and F:
- ASPI:
PIONEER DVD-ROM DVD 115-R
SONY CD-RW CRX 140E
IOMEGA ZIP 250
However, the Maxtor is not in view in 'My Computer'.
Thank you!
****


"MEB" wrote:



"MEB" meb@not wrote in message
...
| "BAP" wrote in message
| ...
| | "MEB" wrote:
| | "BAP" wrote in message
| | ...
| | | The start of this new Post regarding the 'Computer Failure' Post was
| | | suggested by "MEB", and rightly so, as the that earlier Post was
| creating
| | | some confusion.

This lower section from the prior post MAY cause confusion, sorry if it
does. See the addendum below it.

|
| If you intend to continue using that former DATA drive, it would be best
to
| test it for any potential failures. Use the tool.
| ALSO if you recover the files/data off the MAXTOR, it would be best to
use
| Maxtor's {Seagate's] tools to remove the overlay, "reset" the disk, and
| format, and to then test the disk, this time without the drive overlay.
|
| Once we get these two disks recovered OR determine that we can't use the
| VAIO with the former Microtime MASTER/OS disk, we can attempt to fix that
| DVD and CDROM issue you previously mentioned.
|
| *IF the VAIO fails or you want to try the Risys*, then you can use the
above
| outlined 5 steps in the Risys - WIN31 system to attempt recovery of the OS
| disk. Likely that computer WILL need the overlay, and its older BIOS may
| more closely match the Microtime. IF the drive is unsupported, go into the
| BIOS, write down its present settings for later re-use with that Win31
hard
| drive and any others, and manually set the BIOS hard drive settings to the
| correct settings for both the master [Microtime] MAXTOR and the
| secondary/slave IBM/HITACHI.
|
| --
|
| MEB

ADDENDUM

When a hard disk setup program installs a hard drive with an overlay, it
also sets the computer BIOS with the settings it wants to use.
To obtain the BIOS settings necessary for using the drive overlaid disk, we
should look at the original Microtime computer's BIOS for the settings that
were set by the MAXTOR disk setup program.
As the Microtime's BIOS is apparently accessible, enter it and write down
what it holds for all the Master drive's settings [unless it was manually
set at sometime, or if you attempted those prior battery checks, and BIOS
reset and flash disk yet?] and transfer those to which ever computer you use
to attempt recovery. Though there may still be a translation issue, this
would give the best shot at recovery.
IF they have been wiped then it may still be possible on the Risys
computer..

--

MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
_________

BAP wrote:
"dadiOH" wrote:

BAP wrote:
"dadiOH" wrote:

BAP wrote:

snip all

You are making what you want to do just WAAAYY harder than it is.
All you need do is remove a drive from the old computer, put it
in the new computer, boot and then copy the files you want.

The only thing that makes a drive "master", slave", or "cable
select" is the position of the jumper on the back of the drive.
Different manufacturers may have different positions for the same
thing but there is normally a self explanatory diagram on the
back of the drive; if not, you can determine the correct jumper
position for whatever at the manufacturer's site.

When putting old drive in new machine you can either hook it to
the primary IDE cable or the secondary one. If to the primary,
you would want old drive jumpered as slave as the new, existing
drive is master. If you hook it to the secondary channel, it can
be either master or slave. If it were me, I'd make it master
after unhooking any CD/DVD drives from that channel.

****

I am not quite clear about the one you are referring as the
secondary cable. It sounds that it is the one to which the CD_Rom
and the DVD are connected.

Correct
____________

Are you suggesting for me to remove the
CD or the DVD or both and hook to that cable either the
Microtime's primary Master or the Primary Slave without having to
worry about their configuration....Master or Slave? Thanks, for
your reply! (See my reply to "MEB" with today's Date)

Yes. You said you had two hard drives in the old computer and that
one was primary master, the other secondary master; consequently
you could put either - one at a time - into the new computer on
that now free cable without having to worry about reconfiguring
their jumper. Hook the old drive onto the cable where the CD/DVD
were using the same plug position on that cable as was used in
the old computer.


However, you now mention a primary slave in that computer and that
confuses me. Do you have three hard drives in that computer or did
you misspeak whne you said, "There is a Primary Master and a
Secondary Master HD's installed in it."?

****
The terminology has been sort of difficult to keep straight in my
mind. The way I have come to believe is that, regarding the Hard
Disks, the one with the OS is the Primary Master and the I use for
Data storage is the Primary Slave. The CD_ROM and the DVD drives
are Secondary Master and secondary Slave, or viceversa, I think. Is
that correct?
By now, you might have seen my reply to "MEB" about the fact that I
was able to recover the Data stored in the Primary Slave of the
'failed Computer' and the failure to get anywhere with its Primary
Master. It sounds that the Overlay created by MAX-BLAST that came
with that HD, a Maxtor, my be creating problems, according to
"MEB". Any possibility that things might work out better if I were
to remove the DVD Disk Drive from the Sony and hook that Master HD
to the vacant cable connection?
Thank you!
***

I would think so, try it. But determine which drive -CD or DVD - is
master and replace whichever is. If you are in doubt about which is
master/slave, SIW will tell you...
http://www.gtopala.com/

If you don't want to add still another program (it's a good one) then
assume the optical drive at the end of the ribbon cable is Master and
replace it.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

dadiOH wrote:
BAP wrote:

Any possibility that things might work out better if I were
to remove the DVD Disk Drive from the Sony and hook that Master HD
to the vacant cable connection?
Thank you!
***

I would think so, try it. But determine which drive -CD or DVD -
is master and replace whichever is. If you are in doubt about
which is master/slave, SIW will tell you...
http://www.gtopala.com/

If you don't want to add still another program (it's a good one)
then assume the optical drive at the end of the ribbon cable is
Master and replace it.

BTW, you need not physically remove the optical drive(s) from the
computer, merely disconnect the ribbon and power cables when the
machine is off. By the same tolen, you do not need to physically
place the hard drive into a drive tray, just connect the power and
ribbon cables after placing the drive wherever the cables can reach.

If you do what I suggest, I have no idea what the drive letter will be
in your setup so use explorer to browse your drives. If for some
reason it does NOT show up in explorer, power down the computer and
attach the drive you want to read to the other terminal on the ribbon
cable.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

PCR wrote:
dadiOH wrote:
BAP wrote:

snip all

You are making what you want to do just WAAAYY harder than it is.
All you need do is remove a drive from the old computer, put it in
the new computer, boot and then copy the files you want.


Jeez, guy...the OP just wants to take an old drive and get the data
off it using another machine.
1. Put old drive - properly jumpered - in new machine (not as the
boot drive)
2. Boot new machine
3. Copy data
_____________

(1) There could be "geometry" considerations. For instance, the
transferred drive may have a drive overlay that is not needed on the
target machine, or visa versa. Or, BIOS may need to be informed of
geometry settings.

What difference would a drive overlay make? He isn't trying to boot
from the old drive, just copy from it.
_____________

(2) Depending on the number & type of partitions on the existing
hard drive(s) of the target machine & on the hard drive(s) to be
added to it, drive letters may change when it is added...

True. So he browses until he finds it.
______________

If all is well, C: will remain C:-- BUT the added partition(s) may
end up inserted between other existing partitions. If so,
consideration must be given to Registry, shortcut & .ini ties (if
any) to the displaced drive number(s).
Therefore, I wouldn't click to run much of anything, but just hurry
up & copy the data.

Well, that's what he *wants* to do - copy, not run programs. I think
by "data" he *means* data. Registry, shortcuts, etc. have zero effect
on that.
________________

Then, remove the added drive to get back to
normal. Or, try something like...
http://www.pcmag.com/ 's COA2 will help with this. After you move a
file, folder or drive letter, you may use COA2 to change system
references to the new address. It will change references in the
current Registry and all .ini's & shortcuts on all drives.

Not needed for what he wants.
________________

The CD/DVD gets its letter after all partitions. Replacing it with a
hard drive, could cause displacement to existing drive letters.

Yes, but what does it matter? After he copies his data, removes the
HD and hooks up the optical drive(s) again, all will be well.
Besides, IMO, it is a good idea to have the optical drive letters set
near the end of the alphabet. YMMV

Really, folks...what the OP wants to do is a pretty simple thing.
Thoroughness is nice and all that but at some point it leads to
obfuscation


--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

"BAP" wrote in message
...
| "MEB", I need time to fully understand the available options and see if I
| would feel comfortable in taking some steps to follow up on your
suggestions.
| For now, some new information.
|
| The label on the Microtime's Primary Master Disk has this information:
| Maxtor HD - Diamond Max Plus8 - 30 GB ATA/133 HDD - Date: 4 Jan. 2003
| Code NAR 61590 - LAB: 60058656 - ER - 3.5 Series
| The jumpers for a Master are shown to occupy adjacent combinations of top
| and bottom pins. The first, closest to the IDE(?) cable, was on the second
| and bottom pins. However, while in use on the Microtime Computer as
Primary
| Master, only the first jumper was in place. To make it a slave, the label
| showed two adjacent parallel jumpers on the top row of pins. The first was
on
| the first and second pin, again, toward the IDE cable. I tried in that
| fashion and Sony detected it while
| booting, but it would not show it 'My Computer mix. I tried other
| combination, even no jumpers, but all ended up similarly. The Everest
| software, downloaded and used as suggested by Glee, did not show a
Physical
| Device option. The MSI, you suggested, did have that option and I was
| surprised to see the Maxtor in that listing. This is what was shown:
| - Physical Devices:
| IBM- DTLA-307060[58644 MB]
| MAXTOR 6E030L0 [29325 MB]
| - Removable Drives: A: and G:
| - Other Drives: C:, D:, E: and F:
| - ASPI:
| PIONEER DVD-ROM DVD 115-R
| SONY CD-RW CRX 140E
| IOMEGA ZIP 250
| However, the Maxtor is not in view in 'My Computer'.
| Thank you!
| ****


Okay, take your time, and proceed CAREFULLY..

As stated and noted in the ADDENDUM, the Risys may be your best option to
use on that Microtime OS {MAXTOR Diamond MAX} disk. It certainly will negate
the need and worry associated with your WORKING on the likely "most used"
VAIO for and during testing.

And I hate to say this, but if anyone continues to attempt to tell you to
just stick an overlaid disk in any computer and it should work, IGNORE
them.They apparently do not fully understand [or have forgotten] how drive
translations are handled when confronted with overlaid drives and BIOS
unsupported drives. The overlay program generally HARD SETS the CHS values
during the setup routine to values found in agreement with its algorithms,
which must NOT be changed or you risk an inaccessible disk or data
corruption.

The reason for *my* suggesting the TRIAL installation was to determine IF
Windows [using Microtime's OS disk 98SE AS MASTER] could BOOT, and if so,
its ability to find the disk, and BIOS handling of the disk using SAFE MODE
(DOS compatibility mode) - NOT Normal Mode [[[ EMPHASIS !!!!!!!]]] or
preferably DOS MODE fdisk /status and other tools [this was a test for any
compatibility that might have been available].

There was little chance of it actually working [both Microtime disks using
the former jumper and ribbon configuration, in the VAIO], and little chance
of damage to any data on the disk, as it likely could not be found [BIOS is
wrong] or by Windows 98; or accessed using your present VAIO Millennium OS
{unless by some strange circumstance the BIOS and overlay happened to match
up [not likely at AUTO], which was the reason for also placing the
Microtime's old data disk in so IF this occurred you could pull the files.};
but its * on hard drive ADAPTER CHIP information * might have been accessed,
unless damaged, using DOS tools.
Okay, not exactly how I suggested but, this has now been found by the MiTeC
MSI - System Information tool, which confirms the disk CAN be accessed at
the *adapter level* [disk chip OK - it accepts AT queries, at least so far],
and taken with your visual inspection; confirms both additional information,
and agreement with the adapter and the drive's own sticker information.
*| Maxtor HD - Diamond Max Plus8 - 30 GB [potential - unformatted] - sticker
*| MAXTOR 6E030L0 [29325 MB] {actual physically usable}- MSI recovered
information
..{different formulas are used by the manufacturers than what is actually
usable - see prior discussions in this group related to this aspect}

** I do have preliminary testing questions for you though, IF you intend to
continue to follow my advise and techniques:

How comfortable are you with using hard disk testing and recovery tools,
such as TESTDISK [preferred] , HDAT2, and MHDD?
Or are you one of those who use BootItNG or PowerQuest?
Or some other tools?
NOT saying you need to use any yet [and don't], just questioning whether
you have ever used one and which one(s), should it become necessary.

IF you intend to continue, then use my prior outlined suggestions for the
Microtime OS disk and its DATA disk [master/slave], *with and on the Risys
computer*, so you don't unintentionally screw-up the VAIO.. If you want, in
this discussion, just re-outline the issue(s) you had with the VAIO CD
DVD {and modify the heading}, so they can be worked on.
BTW: What processor, speed, and memory is the Risys verses the Microtime?
And what motherboard does it have? PUT that information in the Discussion I
previously created for the Risys computer [you found it right?], and we can
continue there.

--

MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
_________
|
|
| "MEB" wrote:
|
|
|
| "MEB" meb@not wrote in message
| ...
| | "BAP" wrote in message
| | ...
| | | "MEB" wrote:
| | | "BAP" wrote in message
| | | ...
| | | | The start of this new Post regarding the 'Computer Failure' Post
was
| | | | suggested by "MEB", and rightly so, as the that earlier Post was
| | creating
| | | | some confusion.
|
| This lower section from the prior post MAY cause confusion, sorry if it
| does. See the addendum below it.
|
| |
| | If you intend to continue using that former DATA drive, it would be
best
| to
| | test it for any potential failures. Use the tool.
| | ALSO if you recover the files/data off the MAXTOR, it would be best
to
| use
| | Maxtor's {Seagate's] tools to remove the overlay, "reset" the disk,
and
| | format, and to then test the disk, this time without the drive
overlay.
| |
| | Once we get these two disks recovered OR determine that we can't use
the
| | VAIO with the former Microtime MASTER/OS disk, we can attempt to fix
that
| | DVD and CDROM issue you previously mentioned.
| |
| | *IF the VAIO fails or you want to try the Risys*, then you can use the
| above
| | outlined 5 steps in the Risys - WIN31 system to attempt recovery of
the OS
| | disk. Likely that computer WILL need the overlay, and its older BIOS
may
| | more closely match the Microtime. IF the drive is unsupported, go into
the
| | BIOS, write down its present settings for later re-use with that Win31
| hard
| | drive and any others, and manually set the BIOS hard drive settings to
the
| | correct settings for both the master [Microtime] MAXTOR and the
| | secondary/slave IBM/HITACHI.
| |
| | --
| |
| | MEB
|
| ADDENDUM
|
| When a hard disk setup program installs a hard drive with an overlay,
it
| also sets the computer BIOS with the settings it wants to use.
| To obtain the BIOS settings necessary for using the drive overlaid disk,
we
| should look at the original Microtime computer's BIOS for the settings
that
| were set by the MAXTOR disk setup program.
| As the Microtime's BIOS is apparently accessible, enter it and write
down
| what it holds for all the Master drive's settings [unless it was
manually
| set at sometime, or if you attempted those prior battery checks, and
BIOS
| reset and flash disk yet?] and transfer those to which ever computer you
use
| to attempt recovery. Though there may still be a translation issue, this
| would give the best shot at recovery.
| IF they have been wiped then it may still be possible on the Risys
| computer..
|
| --
|
| MEB
| http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
| _________
|
|
|