destorying the hard drive

Mike Y wrote:

"John John" wrote in message
...

Lee wrote:


Best advice yet is correct, but your advice on zero filled data is
totally incorrect.

No, his advice is totally correct! I challenge you, or anyone reading
these groups, to offer concrete proof that they can recover zero
written/wiped files or to give us the names of data recovery firms who
can do it.

It cannot be done, it has never been done, no one has ever been able to
do it and no one has ever been able to offer a shred of evidence that
they have successfully recovered files on securely wiped disks.

John



Special hardware can could overwritten data. Either with an analog
analysis or looking for bit shifts. Don't get confused in thinking that
digital is digital, it's still an analog media...

That is not true, there is no such magical machine available at any cost
that can recover data on securely wiped (zero filed) drives. No one can
recover data on properly wiped drives, the notion that it can be done is
nothing more than a myth.

John

Take them to a metal scrapyard where they load ore cars with I-beams and other
metal using a large magnet.

--


Brian A. Sesko { MS MVP_Windows Desktop User Experience }
Conflicts start where information lacks.
http://basconotw.mvps.org/

Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375


"Gary S. Terhune" none wrote in message
...
I was being factual: I don't know who the girl is worried about, what the
information is worth, and thus can't tell just how much money they might be willing
to spend. We don't know what the recycler does with the HDs. Probably melts them,
but what do I know? Throw a HD into the morning trash and it's very likely to never
see the light of day again, to undergo the same melting when the landfill pile is
mass recycled -- unless someone is stalking you. Then you got problems. I'm
paranoid, so I do zero-wipes on dead HDs but am also developing a pile in the corner
of the shed and am in the market for a mass-destructor magnet.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
www.grystmill.com

"Davej" wrote in message
...
On Mar 20, 5:36 pm, "Gary S. Terhune" none wrote:
Not even smashing the thing with a sledge hammer will destroy the data.


If the disk is bent the data is unrecoverable by anyone without a full-
blown laboratory and a big budget. That is good enough, but reusing
the drive in another machine makes more sense.

Use to be just plain "format" (sans adjectives)

dadiOH
_____________

Gary S. Terhune wrote:
What you describe is a "low-level" format, not a "full" format.


"dadiOH" wrote in message
...
Bill in Co. wrote:
Even as I said, if you do a Full format, I think you'll be hard
pressed to recover much, despite what Gary said. But I think
Gary was thinking of the Quick Format (and I don't consider that a
real format).

There is no longer such a thing as a true "full format" of a hard
drive except the one done by the manufacturer originally.
Certainly, not one by Windows...a full format of even a smallish
hard drive would take many hours during which time the drive
geometry - cylinders, tracks - is laid out, tracks are numbered,
the entire drive is written with a byte pattern and verified.

If the OP wants to destroy everything on the drive - including all
intersector bytes - passing a magnet over it should do it.
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

What did?

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
www.grystmill.com

"dadiOH" wrote in message
...
Use to be just plain "format" (sans adjectives)

dadiOH
_____________

Gary S. Terhune wrote:
What you describe is a "low-level" format, not a "full" format.


"dadiOH" wrote in message
...
Bill in Co. wrote:
Even as I said, if you do a Full format, I think you'll be hard
pressed to recover much, despite what Gary said. But I think
Gary was thinking of the Quick Format (and I don't consider that a
real format).

There is no longer such a thing as a true "full format" of a hard
drive except the one done by the manufacturer originally.
Certainly, not one by Windows...a full format of even a smallish
hard drive would take many hours during which time the drive
geometry - cylinders, tracks - is laid out, tracks are numbered,
the entire drive is written with a byte pattern and verified.

If the OP wants to destroy everything on the drive - including all
intersector bytes - passing a magnet over it should do it.
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

"Lee" wrote in message
...
On Mar 20, 6:05 pm, "philo" wrote:
"Franc Zabkar" wrote in message

...



On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 16:48:40 -0600, Jim Madsen put
finger to keyboard and composed:

My daughter has an old Gateway computer running Windows 98. She says no
one wants it because it is slow and obsolete and she wants to turn it
into the local recycling place.

She is worried about (personal) data on the hard drive. I wonder if
reformatting the HD will destroy all the data? My old W95 computer, I
took the HD out and smashed it with a sledge hammer, but she doesn't
want to do that.

She took it to a computer store, and they offered to "hose" the HD and
dispose of the computer for $50.00.

Any suggestions?

Jim

Use a "zero fill" utility, eg ...

http://www.seagate.com/ww/v/index.js...c970ce010VgnVC...



- Franc Zabkar

This is the best advice yet.

If the drive is zero filled...not only is the data gone...
it cannot be recovered.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Best advice yet is correct, but your advice on zero filled data is
totally incorrect. Gary's cheap tools can recover this data even if
zero filled multiple times.


Nope that's a total myth.
No drive zero-wiped to government standards has even had any data recovered
from it.
The only reason the government destroys drives is due to the human error
element
VIZ: There is the possibility that the person who wipes the drive failed to
do so
or run it until completion.

No one has *EVERY* given evidence of retrieving data from a properly
zero-wiped drive.
Here is the definitive answer:

http://searchwincomputing.techtarget...246592,00.html


For the average guy, zero filling is about as far as one needs to go.
Bart's free Disktool will do this and also overwrite the disk with
test patterns over and over just to be double sure the average guy is
not going to be able to recover your credit card number for example -
but it can still be done by those with the more expensive tools.
http://www.nu2.nu/utils/

That's it, for a hard drive??? OK, then I stand corrected. Must be only
for floppies that it can do the whole shebang.

I had thought, though, in the past, when I did a format c:/s, for preping a
hard drive for Win9x, it was overwriting all the hard disk, as it took
awhile (at least as I recall). Guess not.

Gary S. Terhune wrote:
You're wrong. Full format has no effect on the data. Full format is Quick
format followed by a cluster integrity check, no more.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
www.grystmill.com

"Bill in Co." wrote in message
...
Even as I said, if you do a Full format, I think you'll be hard pressed
to
recover much, despite what Gary said. But I think Gary was thinking of
the Quick Format (and I don't consider that a real format).

John John wrote:
Lee wrote:

Best advice yet is correct, but your advice on zero filled data is
totally incorrect.

No, his advice is totally correct! I challenge you, or anyone reading
these groups, to offer concrete proof that they can recover zero
written/wiped files or to give us the names of data recovery firms who
can do it.

It cannot be done, it has never been done, no one has ever been able to
do it and no one has ever been able to offer a shred of evidence that
they have successfully recovered files on securely wiped disks.

John

dadiOH wrote:
Bill in Co. wrote:
Even as I said, if you do a Full format, I think you'll be hard
pressed to recover much, despite what Gary said. But I think
Gary was thinking of the Quick Format (and I don't consider that a
real format).

There is no longer such a thing as a true "full format" of a hard
drive except the one done by the manufacturer originally. Certainly,
not one by Windows...a full format of even a smallish hard drive would
take many hours during which time the drive geometry - cylinders,
tracks - is laid out, tracks are numbered, the entire drive is written
with a byte pattern and verified.

OK, then I stand corrected.

If the OP wants to destroy everything on the drive - including all
intersector bytes - passing a magnet over it should do it.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

FORMAT C: takes a while because the default action is a Thorough scan by
Scandisk after formatting. To avoid this, use the /q (quick) switch.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
www.grystmill.com

"Bill in Co." wrote in message
...
That's it, for a hard drive??? OK, then I stand corrected. Must be
only for floppies that it can do the whole shebang.

I had thought, though, in the past, when I did a format c:/s, for preping
a hard drive for Win9x, it was overwriting all the hard disk, as it took
awhile (at least as I recall). Guess not.

Gary S. Terhune wrote:
You're wrong. Full format has no effect on the data. Full format is Quick
format followed by a cluster integrity check, no more.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
www.grystmill.com

"Bill in Co." wrote in message
...
Even as I said, if you do a Full format, I think you'll be hard pressed
to
recover much, despite what Gary said. But I think Gary was thinking
of
the Quick Format (and I don't consider that a real format).

John John wrote:
Lee wrote:

Best advice yet is correct, but your advice on zero filled data is
totally incorrect.

No, his advice is totally correct! I challenge you, or anyone reading
these groups, to offer concrete proof that they can recover zero
written/wiped files or to give us the names of data recovery firms who
can do it.

It cannot be done, it has never been done, no one has ever been able to
do it and no one has ever been able to offer a shred of evidence that
they have successfully recovered files on securely wiped disks.

John

OK, but I apparently stand corrected in assuming that it was as "thorough"
on a hard disk as it was on a floppy - overwriting everything on the disk
(or at least I'm pretty sure that assumption is still true for a floppy
using full format).

Hmmm. Perhaps I should have known better in at least one way, because I
once tried one of those disk overwriting programs and it seemed it took
forever.

Gary S. Terhune wrote:
FORMAT C: takes a while because the default action is a Thorough scan by
Scandisk after formatting. To avoid this, use the /q (quick) switch.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
www.grystmill.com

"Bill in Co." wrote in message
...
That's it, for a hard drive??? OK, then I stand corrected. Must be
only for floppies that it can do the whole shebang.

I had thought, though, in the past, when I did a format c:/s, for preping
a hard drive for Win9x, it was overwriting all the hard disk, as it took
awhile (at least as I recall). Guess not.

Gary S. Terhune wrote:
You're wrong. Full format has no effect on the data. Full format is
Quick
format followed by a cluster integrity check, no more.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
www.grystmill.com

"Bill in Co." wrote in message
...
Even as I said, if you do a Full format, I think you'll be hard pressed
to
recover much, despite what Gary said. But I think Gary was thinking
of
the Quick Format (and I don't consider that a real format).

John John wrote:
Lee wrote:

Best advice yet is correct, but your advice on zero filled data is
totally incorrect.

No, his advice is totally correct! I challenge you, or anyone reading
these groups, to offer concrete proof that they can recover zero
written/wiped files or to give us the names of data recovery firms who
can do it.

It cannot be done, it has never been done, no one has ever been able
to
do it and no one has ever been able to offer a shred of evidence that
they have successfully recovered files on securely wiped disks.

John

On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 05:32:07 -0700, "Gary S. Terhune" none put
finger to keyboard and composed:

You're wrong. Full format has no effect on the data. Full format is Quick
format followed by a cluster integrity check, no more.

I think you're right. Maybe the confusion, at least in my case, is due
to the different way the Format command appears to treat floppy
diskettes as opposed to hard drives.

Anyway, after "full" formatting a 320GB USB HD from within Explorer, I
used a disc editor to view the HD and found that all the data appeared
to be intact. I suspect that a "format /u" from within DOS would
produce the same result but I don't have a spare HD to reliably test
this (my USB HD stalls at 0%).

OTOH, a full format of a floppy diskette writes F6 bytes to every
sector in the data area. The same thing happens when I type ...

format a: /u

.... at a DOS prompt.

A "quick" GUI format or a plain DOS format both leave the diskette's
data area intact.

Here are two of the FD images:
http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/frmt_img.zip (4.2KB)

I suspect that the difference in the treatment of FDs and HDs may be
due to the fact that diskettes can be magnetically blank, ie they may
have no prerecorded sector IDs, in which case they need to be low
level formatted. HDs, OTOH, are already low level formatted at the
factory.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.