Problem with latest Millennium Edition MS Security Updates.

This morning I installed the newest MS Security Updates on my system. In
particular, the following:

__________________________________________________ ___
Security Update for Windows Me (KB888113)
Download size: 177 KB, 1 minute
A security issue has been identified that could allow an attacker to
compromise your Windows-based system and gain control over it. You can
help protect your computer by installing this update from Microsoft.
After you install this item, you may have to restart your computer. Read
more...

This item has been selected.AddRemove
Security Update for Windows Me (KB891711)
Download size: 144 KB, 1 minute
A security issue has been identified that could allow an attacker to
compromise your Windows-based system and gain control over it. You can
help protect your computer by installing this update from Microsoft.
After you install this item, you may have to restart your computer. Read
more...
__________________________________________________ ___

The first update modifies the way Windows handles HTML links and the
second one modifies the way icons and cursors behave. After I did this,
when I ran Mozilla and did a search in Google, then clicked on ANY link,
my computer did a total, black screen of death crash. Rebooting required
that I run scandisk on ALL of my hard drives and partitions, and it
always found four file fragments which it deleted. After I ran System
Restore and then verified that the updates had been totally removed,
clicking on links no longer crashed my computer.

Your mileage may vary of course, but this is what happened to me. I
would be very interested in knowing if anybody else using Mozilla or
Firefox has similar problems with these updates.

--
Regards from John Corliss

The problems you are seeing appear to be being caused by the 891711 hotfix
with some users having major problems such as you are seeing and others,
myself included, having none. The cause of the problems and BSODs seem to
be related to the video chip and version of the driver on the box rather
than the browser or other software installed.

Out of curiosity what video card do you have installed in the affected box
and what version driver is it using?
--
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/e...ts/nichol.mspx
In memory of a very dear friend, Windows MVP Alex Nichol

Mike Maltby MS-MVP



John Corliss wrote:

This morning I installed the newest MS Security Updates on my system.
In particular, the following:

__________________________________________________ ___
Security Update for Windows Me (KB888113)
Download size: 177 KB, 1 minute
A security issue has been identified that could allow an attacker to
compromise your Windows-based system and gain control over it. You can
help protect your computer by installing this update from Microsoft.
After you install this item, you may have to restart your computer.
Read more...

This item has been selected.AddRemove
Security Update for Windows Me (KB891711)
Download size: 144 KB, 1 minute
A security issue has been identified that could allow an attacker to
compromise your Windows-based system and gain control over it. You can
help protect your computer by installing this update from Microsoft.
After you install this item, you may have to restart your computer.
Read more...
__________________________________________________ ___

The first update modifies the way Windows handles HTML links and the
second one modifies the way icons and cursors behave. After I did
this, when I ran Mozilla and did a search in Google, then clicked on
ANY link, my computer did a total, black screen of death crash.
Rebooting required that I run scandisk on ALL of my hard drives and
partitions, and it always found four file fragments which it deleted.
After I ran System Restore and then verified that the updates had
been totally removed, clicking on links no longer crashed my computer.

Your mileage may vary of course, but this is what happened to me. I
would be very interested in knowing if anybody else using Mozilla or
Firefox has similar problems with these updates.

Mike M wrote:
The problems you are seeing appear to be being caused by the 891711
hotfix with some users having major problems such as you are seeing and
others, myself included, having none. The cause of the problems and
BSODs seem to be related to the video chip and version of the driver on
the box rather than the browser or other software installed.

Out of curiosity what video card do you have installed in the affected
box and what version driver is it using?

It's a Leadtek WinFast(R) A280LE with an nVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4200 chip
running in an AGP8X slot. Driver is from nVIDIA, is dated 07/03/2002 and
the version is 4.13.01.3100.

--
Regards from John Corliss

John Corliss wrote:

It's a Leadtek WinFast(R) A280LE with an nVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4200 chip
running in an AGP8X slot. Driver is from nVIDIA, is dated 07/03/2002
and the version is 4.13.01.3100.

Thanks. Is there any chance that you could try changing or updating the
driver and see if that resolves the problem?
--
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/e...ts/nichol.mspx
In memory of a very dear friend, Windows MVP Alex Nichol

Mike Maltby MS-MVP

Mike M wrote:
John Corliss wrote:

It's a Leadtek WinFast(R) A280LE with an nVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4200 chip
running in an AGP8X slot. Driver is from nVIDIA, is dated 07/03/2002
and the version is 4.13.01.3100.

Thanks. Is there any chance that you could try changing or updating the
driver and see if that resolves the problem?

Sorry Mike, I'm too afraid of making a change to my system that will
mess things up even more. There are two reasons that a vendor comes out
with a new version of a driver:

1. To make a newer piece of hardware perform better.
2. To make an older piece of hardware (like my graphics card) perform
worse, so as to convince an end user to get their latest product.

My system works now and I want to keep it that way. Maybe the next time
I do a total system reinstall, just before I do it I'll try the newer
driver version.

--
Regards from John Corliss

Whilst I can't disagree with your sentiment not to possibly wreck an
otherwise well performing system I feel you are nevertheless being unduly
cynical about manufacturer's motives in updating drivers. I have yet to
see evidence of your scenario 2 and as for your scenario 1. I feel that
should be restated to read 1. To make a piece of hardware perform better.

It is also possible that you have forgotten one of the benefits of running
Win Me, that is system restore, which is designed for just this sort of
thing, that is create a checkpoint, install a new driver. If all is well
continue, if not then roll back to the checkpoint created before the
driver update.

Regards,

--
Mike Maltby MS-MVP



John Corliss wrote:

Sorry Mike, I'm too afraid of making a change to my system that will
mess things up even more. There are two reasons that a vendor comes
out with a new version of a driver:

1. To make a newer piece of hardware perform better.
2. To make an older piece of hardware (like my graphics card) perform
worse, so as to convince an end user to get their latest product.

My system works now and I want to keep it that way. Maybe the next
time I do a total system reinstall, just before I do it I'll try the
newer driver version.

And one can often roll back a driver update by using the feature in Device
Manager.

IMO, testing a new hardware driver is not a crisis in WinME.
--
Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS
Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm

http://www.microsoft.com/athome/secu...t/default.aspx
In Memorium: Alex Nichol
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/e...ts/nichol.mspx
Your cooperation is very appreciated.
------
"Mike M" wrote in message
...
Whilst I can't disagree with your sentiment not to possibly wreck an
otherwise well performing system I feel you are nevertheless being unduly
cynical about manufacturer's motives in updating drivers. I have yet to
see evidence of your scenario 2 and as for your scenario 1. I feel that
should be restated to read 1. To make a piece of hardware perform better.

It is also possible that you have forgotten one of the benefits of running
Win Me, that is system restore, which is designed for just this sort of
thing, that is create a checkpoint, install a new driver. If all is well
continue, if not then roll back to the checkpoint created before the
driver update.

Regards,

--
Mike Maltby MS-MVP



John Corliss wrote:

Sorry Mike, I'm too afraid of making a change to my system that will
mess things up even more. There are two reasons that a vendor comes
out with a new version of a driver:

1. To make a newer piece of hardware perform better.
2. To make an older piece of hardware (like my graphics card) perform
worse, so as to convince an end user to get their latest product.

My system works now and I want to keep it that way. Maybe the next
time I do a total system reinstall, just before I do it I'll try the
newer driver version.

Mike M wrote:
John Corliss wrote:

Sorry Mike, I'm too afraid of making a change to my system that will
mess things up even more. There are two reasons that a vendor comes
out with a new version of a driver:

1. To make a newer piece of hardware perform better.
2. To make an older piece of hardware (like my graphics card) perform
worse, so as to convince an end user to get their latest product.

My system works now and I want to keep it that way. Maybe the next
time I do a total system reinstall, just before I do it I'll try the
newer driver version.

Whilst I can't disagree with your sentiment not to possibly wreck an
otherwise well performing system I feel you are nevertheless being
unduly cynical about manufacturer's motives in updating drivers. I have
yet to see evidence of your scenario 2 and as for your scenario 1. I
feel that should be restated to read 1. To make a piece of hardware
perform better.

It is also possible that you have forgotten one of the benefits of
running Win Me, that is system restore, which is designed for just this
sort of thing, that is create a checkpoint, install a new driver. If
all is well continue, if not then roll back to the checkpoint created
before the driver update.

Mike,
The most direct example of motivation number two that I've personally
observed was when I got this computer and hooked my old Hewlett Packard
855C printer up to it. When I used the default device driver for it that
came with Millennium Edition, the output from the printer looked like it
was coming from a dot matrix printer, no matter what the settings. Not
only that, but many of the features and options I had grown used to in
the old driver were now gone. To correct the problem, I removed the
printer in Device Manager and then installed the old Windows 95 driver
for it. After I did that, the 855C's output once again appeared normal
and access to the old features and options was restored.

It's hard for me to believe that there was any other reason for this
problem than the second one. In fact, if I'd allowed ABS to send me this
computer with XP Home (I would have gone with Windows 98 had it been
available, but had to settle for ME instead) like they wanted
originally, I would most likely not have been able to install the old 16
bit driver for the printer at all.

A lot of people tend to get new printers, scanners, etc. when they
upgrade their computer. I, however, paid a lot of money for my 855C
(about as much as one would pay for, say, a good clothes drier) and I
fully intend to get my money's worth of printing from it. In fact, it
still works perfectly and I have no intention of getting a new printer
just because this old one doesn't work as well with updated drivers.

It may seem cynical to attribute the motivation of greed to vendors, but
IMO it's simply being realistic. Greed is part of human nature and (no
offense) to believe that hardware manufacturers aren't motivated by it
like everybody else is being naive.

--
Regards from John Corliss

There may be alot of reasons why that happened, including f'rinstance a
really good driver writer leaving the company.


Rick


John Corliss wrote:
Mike M wrote:

John Corliss wrote:

Sorry Mike, I'm too afraid of making a change to my system that will
mess things up even more. There are two reasons that a vendor comes
out with a new version of a driver:

1. To make a newer piece of hardware perform better.
2. To make an older piece of hardware (like my graphics card) perform
worse, so as to convince an end user to get their latest product.

My system works now and I want to keep it that way. Maybe the next
time I do a total system reinstall, just before I do it I'll try the
newer driver version.



Whilst I can't disagree with your sentiment not to possibly wreck an
otherwise well performing system I feel you are nevertheless being
unduly cynical about manufacturer's motives in updating drivers. I
have yet to see evidence of your scenario 2 and as for your scenario
1. I feel that should be restated to read 1. To make a piece of
hardware perform better.

It is also possible that you have forgotten one of the benefits of
running Win Me, that is system restore, which is designed for just
this sort of thing, that is create a checkpoint, install a new
driver. If all is well continue, if not then roll back to the
checkpoint created before the driver update.


Mike,
The most direct example of motivation number two that I've personally
observed was when I got this computer and hooked my old Hewlett Packard
855C printer up to it. When I used the default device driver for it that
came with Millennium Edition, the output from the printer looked like it
was coming from a dot matrix printer, no matter what the settings. Not
only that, but many of the features and options I had grown used to in
the old driver were now gone. To correct the problem, I removed the
printer in Device Manager and then installed the old Windows 95 driver
for it. After I did that, the 855C's output once again appeared normal
and access to the old features and options was restored.

It's hard for me to believe that there was any other reason for this
problem than the second one. In fact, if I'd allowed ABS to send me this
computer with XP Home (I would have gone with Windows 98 had it been
available, but had to settle for ME instead) like they wanted
originally, I would most likely not have been able to install the old 16
bit driver for the printer at all.

A lot of people tend to get new printers, scanners, etc. when they
upgrade their computer. I, however, paid a lot of money for my 855C
(about as much as one would pay for, say, a good clothes drier) and I
fully intend to get my money's worth of printing from it. In fact, it
still works perfectly and I have no intention of getting a new printer
just because this old one doesn't work as well with updated drivers.

It may seem cynical to attribute the motivation of greed to vendors, but
IMO it's simply being realistic. Greed is part of human nature and (no
offense) to believe that hardware manufacturers aren't motivated by it
like everybody else is being naive.

Rick T wrote:
There may be alot of reasons why that happened, including f'rinstance a
really good driver writer leaving the company.

That indeed may have been the case. On the other hand, it still could
have been reason number two. Still, as I said, it may seem cynical to
attribute the motivation of greed to vendors, but IMO it's simply being
realistic. Greed is part of human nature and (no offense) to believe
that hardware manufacturers aren't motivated by it like everybody else
is being naive.

--
Regards from John Corliss