Strange memory problem

"????? ????? (Igor Leyko)" wrote in message
...
"Walter Clayton" wrote in message
...
"????? ????? (Igor Leyko)" wrote in message
...
"Walter Clayton" wrote in message
...
To repeat the cause:

The issue is how 9x manages ring 0 and what drivers, especially
non-MS supplied drivers expect to see. It's not unusual that those
drivers are overflowing memory counters thus causing a false SOS
condition. One of the weaknesses of 9x kernel is that when a driver
requests memory the kernel can not fail the memory request. Either
the getmem is honored or the system goes down.

Drivers are loaded much earlier than you're assuming. ;-)

Yes, at this moment they are loaded but not running yet. Just loaded. So
no memory requests by getmem can be done.

You may want to start he
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/arc...t1/wrkc05.mspx
--and--
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/arc...t6/wrkc28.mspx

Great idea. I started from the similar document in an early 1995. It
was a preliminary version of ResKit on beta CD. Unfortunately ResKit has
very few information about "insuffisient memory for initialization"
problem and can not exlpain why VCACHE cause a crash or blue screen.

It takes drivers running in real mode to initiate bootstrap. Part of that
process is loading and initializing VMM32.vxd which does have to allocate
memory for drivers. There is a lot of stuff happening prior to and
"concurrent" with VMM32.vxd being loaded.

VMM - Virtual Machine Manager (sorry, I'm speaking about VMM, not about
VMM32.vxd which is a set of modules) displays "insufficient memory" if it
cannot start initialization. I suppose this is clear, isn't it?
--
????? ????? (Igor Leyko) MS MVP Windows - Shell/User


VMM is initialized much latter in the boot sequence and very much dependant
on not only real mode, but protected mode drivers as well that are issuing
demands on memory.

You're still circling around the central issue. It's ring 0 and the drivers,
including vcache, that reside there that are miscounting real free space.
;-)

To put it another way, if you're looking for 100 free blocks, you only
expect a value between 1 and 999 on a query of free resources and the return
is 1001 then you're going to throw an error since you're going to truncate
to a value of 1; which is significantly smaller than 100.

I say again - Windows runs happily without the existence of the SMARTDRV.exe
on the disk

--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2006, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.crashfixpc.com

http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to NG's
"????? ????? (Igor Leyko)" wrote in message
...
It is not a separate file. Smartdrv.exe is both DOS and Windows program.
The Windows programs have a small DOS part often called "stub". When a
program is started from DOS, DOS runs only stub which dispays "This
program require Windows" or similar text. Windows recognize a main part of
a program and runs it ignoring a stub. In Smartdrv.exe DOS part is not a
stub but a useful program. Its size is ~90% of file. The last 10 % is a
Windows driver which cannot be started from DOS but can be loaded into
Windows. Its internal name is SD.VXD and you may see it in suitable file
viewer.
This VXD really does nothing more then displaing a message "A serious
error occurs..." and allow to retry operation or crash Windows to prevent
additional errors. Windows 3.1 users remember such window I suppose.
I have no ideas when this driver can work in Win9x.

I don't know what is smartvsd.vxd, I rhink I never had it on my computers.

--
????? ????? (Igor Leyko) MS MVP Windows - Shell/User


"PCR" wrote in message
...
I can't find a SmartDRV.vxd anywhere I've looked, including inside
VMM32.VXD. I do find a SmartVSD.vxd, but the lines in my own Bootlog.txt
do say...

[0017B703] Loading Vxd = C:\Windows\SMARTDRV.EXE
[0017B704] LoadSuccess = C:\Windows\SMARTDRV.EXE

..., same as Zhilin's. But it isn't currently loaded (looking in
DrWatson's tabs & DOS's MEM). It does seem that SmartVSD.vxd is loaded &
remains loaded...

[0017B757] Dynamic load device C:\Windows\system\IOSUBSYS\smartvsd.vxd
[0017B758] Dynamic load success C:\Windows\system\IOSUBSYS\smartvsd.vxd


--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
should things get worse after this,
PCR

"????? ????? (Igor Leyko)" wrote in message
...
| "Mikhail Zhilin" wrote in message
| ...
| So I suppose it is using (if isn't deleted manually) only at the first
| stage
| of the boot process, as the accelerating engine. This part of my reply
was
| only to attract the attention, that not all is so simple like it
seems...
|
|
| Well, waiting a comments not to me and my knowledge but the subject and
my
| article statements I can tell something about SmartDrivet.
| Windows loads not smartdrv.exe but smartdrv.vxd, Windows driver stored
in
| smartdrv.exe since its appearing in MS-DOS 6.
| This driver communicates with DOS part of smartdrv. If a serious error
| occures the driver displays error message. It was required in Windows
3.1
| which did nit have its own disk cashe. It was required in WfW 3.11
because
| it's VCACHE could not cache floppies.
| I believe there is no real need in this driver in Windows 95 and upper
but
| it was not removed due to compatibility issues and because developers
do
| not like the radical changes in code and algorithms.
|
| --
| ????? ????? (Igor Leyko) MS MVP Windows - Shell/User
|
|
|

Well, now I've clicked SmartDrv.exe in Explorer, & a DOS box opened to say...

"You cannot load SMARTDrive when a shell program (such as
MS-DOS shell) or Windows is running. Quit Windows or the
shell program, and then load SMARTDrive."

....It will only run in a separately pre-opened DOS box, by typing it's name...

C:\SmartDrv /?

Installs and configures the SMARTDrive disk-caching utility.

SMARTDRV [/X] [[drive[+|-]]...] [/u] [/C | /R] [/F | /N] [/L] [/V | /Q | /S]
[InitCacheSize [WinCacheSize]] [/E:ElementSize] [/B:BufferSize]

/X Disables write-behind caching for all drives.
drive Sets caching options on specific drive(s). The specified
drive(s) will have write-caching disabled unless you add +.
+ Enables write-behind caching for the specified drive.
- Disables all caching for the specified drive.
/U Do not load CD-ROM caching module.
/C Writes all information currently in write-cache to hard disk.
/R Clears the cache and restarts SMARTDrive.
/F Writes cached data before command prompt returns (default).
/N Doesn't write cached data before command prompt returns.
/L Prevents SMARTDrive from loading itself into upper memory.
/V Displays SMARTDrive status messages when loading.
/Q Does not display status information.
/S Displays additional information about SMARTDrive's status.
InitCacheSize Specifies XMS memory (KB) for the cache.
WinCacheSize Specifies XMS memory (KB) for the cache with Windows.
/E:ElementSize Specifies how many bytes of information to move at one time.
/B:BufferSize Specifies the size of the read-ahead buffer.

| I don't know what is smartvsd.vxd, I rhink I never had it on my computers.

You've got to have it! It's a genuine Win98 file! However, it is something else altogether.


--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
should things get worse after this,
PCR

"????? ????? (Igor Leyko)" wrote in message ...
| It is not a separate file. Smartdrv.exe is both DOS and Windows program. The
| Windows programs have a small DOS part often called "stub". When a program
| is started from DOS, DOS runs only stub which dispays "This program require
| Windows" or similar text. Windows recognize a main part of a program and
| runs it ignoring a stub. In Smartdrv.exe DOS part is not a stub but a useful
| program. Its size is ~90% of file. The last 10 % is a Windows driver which
| cannot be started from DOS but can be loaded into Windows. Its internal name
| is SD.VXD and you may see it in suitable file viewer.
| This VXD really does nothing more then displaing a message "A serious error
| occurs..." and allow to retry operation or crash Windows to prevent
| additional errors. Windows 3.1 users remember such window I suppose.
| I have no ideas when this driver can work in Win9x.
|
| I don't know what is smartvsd.vxd, I rhink I never had it on my computers.
|
| --
| ????? ????? (Igor Leyko) MS MVP Windows - Shell/User
|
|
| "PCR" wrote in message
| ...
| I can't find a SmartDRV.vxd anywhere I've looked, including inside
| VMM32.VXD. I do find a SmartVSD.vxd, but the lines in my own Bootlog.txt do
| say...
|
| [0017B703] Loading Vxd = C:\Windows\SMARTDRV.EXE
| [0017B704] LoadSuccess = C:\Windows\SMARTDRV.EXE
|
| ..., same as Zhilin's. But it isn't currently loaded (looking in DrWatson's
| tabs & DOS's MEM). It does seem that SmartVSD.vxd is loaded & remains
| loaded...
|
| [0017B757] Dynamic load device C:\Windows\system\IOSUBSYS\smartvsd.vxd
| [0017B758] Dynamic load success C:\Windows\system\IOSUBSYS\smartvsd.vxd
|
|
| --
| Thanks or Good Luck,
| There may be humor in this post, and,
| Naturally, you will not sue,
| should things get worse after this,
| PCR
|
| "????? ????? (Igor Leyko)" wrote in message
| ...
| | "Mikhail Zhilin" wrote in message
| | ...
| | So I suppose it is using (if isn't deleted manually) only at the first
| | stage
| | of the boot process, as the accelerating engine. This part of my reply
| was
| | only to attract the attention, that not all is so simple like it
| seems...
| |
| |
| | Well, waiting a comments not to me and my knowledge but the subject and my
| | article statements I can tell something about SmartDrivet.
| | Windows loads not smartdrv.exe but smartdrv.vxd, Windows driver stored in
| | smartdrv.exe since its appearing in MS-DOS 6.
| | This driver communicates with DOS part of smartdrv. If a serious error
| | occures the driver displays error message. It was required in Windows 3.1
| | which did nit have its own disk cashe. It was required in WfW 3.11 because
| | it's VCACHE could not cache floppies.
| | I believe there is no real need in this driver in Windows 95 and upper but
| | it was not removed due to compatibility issues and because developers do
| | not like the radical changes in code and algorithms.
| |
| | --
| | ????? ????? (Igor Leyko) MS MVP Windows - Shell/User
| |
| |
| |
|
|

I can't find a SmartDRV.vxd anywhere I've looked, including inside
VMM32.VXD. I do find a SmartVSD.vxd, but the lines in my own Bootlog.txt do
say...

[0017B703] Loading Vxd = C:\Windows\SMARTDRV.EXE
[0017B704] LoadSuccess = C:\Windows\SMARTDRV.EXE
------------

My bootlog has the same, except the address allocation is totally different,
is there a simple explanation for this?

[000AF4AB] Loading Vxd = C:\WINDOWS\SMARTDRV.EXE
[000AF4AB] LoadSuccess = C:\WINDOWS\SMARTDRV.EXE

These entries are 10th & 11th on the bootlog.txt list.
Gekko

"Noel Paton" wrote in message
...
I say again - Windows runs happily without the existence of the
SMARTDRV.exe on the disk

Yes, I agree.
I never told it is nesessary - neither for Windows no for DOS.
--
????? ????? (Igor Leyko) MS MVP Windows - Shell/User

"Walter Clayton" wrote in message
...
The issue is how 9x manages ring 0 and what drivers, especially
non-MS supplied drivers expect to see. It's not unusual that those
drivers are overflowing memory counters thus causing a false SOS
condition. One of the weaknesses of 9x kernel is that when a driver
requests memory the kernel can not fail the memory request. Either
the getmem is honored or the system goes down.

Drivers are loaded much earlier than you're assuming. ;-)

Yes, at this moment they are loaded but not running yet. Just loaded.
So no memory requests by getmem can be done.

You may want to start he
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/arc...t1/wrkc05.mspx
--and--
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/arc...t6/wrkc28.mspx

Great idea. I started from the similar document in an early 1995. It
was a preliminary version of ResKit on beta CD. Unfortunately ResKit has
very few information about "insuffisient memory for initialization"
problem and can not exlpain why VCACHE cause a crash or blue screen.

It takes drivers running in real mode to initiate bootstrap. Part of
that process is loading and initializing VMM32.vxd which does have to
allocate memory for drivers. There is a lot of stuff happening prior to
and "concurrent" with VMM32.vxd being loaded.

VMM - Virtual Machine Manager (sorry, I'm speaking about VMM, not about
VMM32.vxd which is a set of modules) displays "insufficient memory" if it
cannot start initialization. I suppose this is clear, isn't it?

VMM is initialized much latter in the boot sequence and very much
dependant on not only real mode, but protected mode drivers as well that
are issuing demands on memory.

Did you tried to detect an exact step when error occur?
It is very easy - just look into bootlog.txt. You may see - initialazation
do not occur but error appears.

You're still circling around the central issue. It's ring 0 and the
drivers, including vcache, that reside there that are miscounting real
free space. ;-)

Can you point to any information source? Yes, of course, it's ring 0 - it it
a core initialization process.
If it is just a bad driver problem why MS did not fix it in 98SE or Me?

--
????? ????? (Igor Leyko) MS MVP Windows - Shell/User

My Windows 98 CD does not have smartvsd.vxd.
--
????? ????? (Igor Leyko) MS MVP Windows - Shell/User


"PCR" wrote in message
...
Well, now I've clicked SmartDrv.exe in Explorer, & a DOS box opened to
say...

"You cannot load SMARTDrive when a shell program (such as
MS-DOS shell) or Windows is running. Quit Windows or the
shell program, and then load SMARTDrive."

....It will only run in a separately pre-opened DOS box, by typing it's
name...

C:\SmartDrv /?

Installs and configures the SMARTDrive disk-caching utility.

SMARTDRV [/X] [[drive[+|-]]...] [/u] [/C | /R] [/F | /N] [/L] [/V | /Q | /S]
[InitCacheSize [WinCacheSize]] [/E:ElementSize] [/B:BufferSize]

/X Disables write-behind caching for all drives.
drive Sets caching options on specific drive(s). The specified
drive(s) will have write-caching disabled unless you add +.
+ Enables write-behind caching for the specified drive.
- Disables all caching for the specified drive.
/U Do not load CD-ROM caching module.
/C Writes all information currently in write-cache to hard
disk.
/R Clears the cache and restarts SMARTDrive.
/F Writes cached data before command prompt returns (default).
/N Doesn't write cached data before command prompt returns.
/L Prevents SMARTDrive from loading itself into upper memory.
/V Displays SMARTDrive status messages when loading.
/Q Does not display status information.
/S Displays additional information about SMARTDrive's status.
InitCacheSize Specifies XMS memory (KB) for the cache.
WinCacheSize Specifies XMS memory (KB) for the cache with Windows.
/E:ElementSize Specifies how many bytes of information to move at one time.
/B:BufferSize Specifies the size of the read-ahead buffer.

| I don't know what is smartvsd.vxd, I rhink I never had it on my computers.

You've got to have it! It's a genuine Win98 file! However, it is something
else altogether.


--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
should things get worse after this,
PCR

"????? ????? (Igor Leyko)" wrote in message
...
| It is not a separate file. Smartdrv.exe is both DOS and Windows program.
The
| Windows programs have a small DOS part often called "stub". When a program
| is started from DOS, DOS runs only stub which dispays "This program
require
| Windows" or similar text. Windows recognize a main part of a program and
| runs it ignoring a stub. In Smartdrv.exe DOS part is not a stub but a
useful
| program. Its size is ~90% of file. The last 10 % is a Windows driver which
| cannot be started from DOS but can be loaded into Windows. Its internal
name
| is SD.VXD and you may see it in suitable file viewer.
| This VXD really does nothing more then displaing a message "A serious
error
| occurs..." and allow to retry operation or crash Windows to prevent
| additional errors. Windows 3.1 users remember such window I suppose.
| I have no ideas when this driver can work in Win9x.
|
| I don't know what is smartvsd.vxd, I rhink I never had it on my computers.
|
| --
| ????? ????? (Igor Leyko) MS MVP Windows - Shell/User
|
|
| "PCR" wrote in message
| ...
| I can't find a SmartDRV.vxd anywhere I've looked, including inside
| VMM32.VXD. I do find a SmartVSD.vxd, but the lines in my own Bootlog.txt
do
| say...
|
| [0017B703] Loading Vxd = C:\Windows\SMARTDRV.EXE
| [0017B704] LoadSuccess = C:\Windows\SMARTDRV.EXE
|
| ..., same as Zhilin's. But it isn't currently loaded (looking in
DrWatson's
| tabs & DOS's MEM). It does seem that SmartVSD.vxd is loaded & remains
| loaded...
|
| [0017B757] Dynamic load device C:\Windows\system\IOSUBSYS\smartvsd.vxd
| [0017B758] Dynamic load success C:\Windows\system\IOSUBSYS\smartvsd.vxd
|
|
| --
| Thanks or Good Luck,
| There may be humor in this post, and,
| Naturally, you will not sue,
| should things get worse after this,
| PCR
|
| "????? ????? (Igor Leyko)" wrote in message
| ...
| | "Mikhail Zhilin" wrote in message
| | ...
| | So I suppose it is using (if isn't deleted manually) only at the first
| | stage
| | of the boot process, as the accelerating engine. This part of my reply
| was
| | only to attract the attention, that not all is so simple like it
| seems...
| |
| |
| | Well, waiting a comments not to me and my knowledge but the subject and
my
| | article statements I can tell something about SmartDrivet.
| | Windows loads not smartdrv.exe but smartdrv.vxd, Windows driver stored
in
| | smartdrv.exe since its appearing in MS-DOS 6.
| | This driver communicates with DOS part of smartdrv. If a serious error
| | occures the driver displays error message. It was required in Windows
3.1
| | which did nit have its own disk cashe. It was required in WfW 3.11
because
| | it's VCACHE could not cache floppies.
| | I believe there is no real need in this driver in Windows 95 and upper
but
| | it was not removed due to compatibility issues and because developers
do
| | not like the radical changes in code and algorithms.
| |
| | --
| | ????? ????? (Igor Leyko) MS MVP Windows - Shell/User
| |
| |
| |
|
|

On Sun, 9 Jul 2006 13:09:01 +0930, "Gekko" wrote:


I can't find a SmartDRV.vxd anywhere I've looked, including inside
VMM32.VXD. I do find a SmartVSD.vxd, but the lines in my own Bootlog.txt do
say...

[0017B703] Loading Vxd = C:\Windows\SMARTDRV.EXE
[0017B704] LoadSuccess = C:\Windows\SMARTDRV.EXE
------------

My bootlog has the same, except the address allocation is totally different,
is there a simple explanation for this?

[000AF4AB] Loading Vxd = C:\WINDOWS\SMARTDRV.EXE
[000AF4AB] LoadSuccess = C:\WINDOWS\SMARTDRV.EXE

These entries are 10th & 11th on the bootlog.txt list.

These numbers are not address allocation. Each number is the time, in
hexadecimal form (in milliseconds, if I recall correct), when the event
occurred after beginning of the boot process,.

These numbers are useful to troubleshoot the boot process, and are using by
some diagnostic programs like BootLog Analyzer BLA32.

--
Mikhail Zhilin
MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
http://www.aha.ru/~mwz
Sorry, no technical support by e-mail.
Please reply to the newsgroups only.
======

"Andrea" wrote in message
om...
I've a client with windows 98 installed. All was working fine since I've
installed the antivirus and now a pc with 1GB of ram is unable to open the
DOS shell since memory is finished.

I really don't know ... Any idea? I don't think that the cause could be
the antivirus, because on another client with 256MB of ram, the pc open
and close the dos windows withouth any problems.

Thanks for any reply




This worked for 98SE via msconfig's correction by limiting RAM use in
system.ini file.
[386Enh]
MaxPhysPage=1FFFF

Also works in ME on same PC. Same PC has 1GB of RAM.

Same PC also has XP. Runs fine on all 1GB of RAM.

Same PC works fine when booting from a msdos 7.0 floppy, or 98SE startup
floppy diskette.
--
Jonny

"Jonny" wrote in message
...
"Andrea" wrote in message
om...
I've a client with windows 98 installed. All was working fine since I've
installed the antivirus and now a pc with 1GB of ram is unable to open
the DOS shell since memory is finished.

I really don't know ... Any idea? I don't think that the cause could be
the antivirus, because on another client with 256MB of ram, the pc open
and close the dos windows withouth any problems.

Thanks for any reply




This worked for 98SE via msconfig's correction by limiting RAM use in
system.ini file.
[386Enh]
MaxPhysPage=1FFFF

Also works in ME on same PC. Same PC has 1GB of RAM.

Same PC also has XP. Runs fine on all 1GB of RAM.

Same PC works fine when booting from a msdos 7.0 floppy, or 98SE startup
floppy diskette.


Not surprising - it limits the RAM available to Windows to less than 512MB

--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2006, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.crashfixpc.com

http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to NG's