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Is there any browser left for Win98se?



 
 
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  #21  
Old February 18th 13, 11:54 PM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion,alt.windows98
98 Guy
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 2,951
Default Is there any browser left for Win98se?

Bill in Co wrote:

I thought I made it clear in my last post that you can't install
any version of FF 3.x without having Kex.


Then he must have KernelEx installed.


If he did, then he could have tried Firefox 10.0.2 (at least). Instead
all he claimed was 3.5.

By "too limited", I meant the bigger picture, not necessarily the
"inherent" limitations of the OS:


Win-98 is inherently a WIN32 OS. What it lacks are the API functions
that have been added to the NT line, and many of the more useful ones
are being replicated by KernelEx, with new ones being added via "stubs".

I can't even install several good (and even older) fundamental
audio and video restoration apps


Heck, even something as good as the near oldest version of Adobe
Audition (which improved on Cool Edit Pro) can't be used,


I've just spent about 15 minutes trying to locate old versions of Adobe
Audition for download - which I can't find.

What I can find are various versions of CoolEdit Pro:

http://www.oldversion.com/windows/cool-edit-pro/

I downloaded "Cool Edit Pro 2000 1.1" and installed it, then I installed
the "Cool Edit Pro 2000 Audio Cleanup plug-in 1.1".

After installing the plugin and running CoolEdit, it opens and loads the
wav file "solace.wav" (from the movie "The Sting" ?) - a 10 second piano
clip that contains pops. I fool around with the Transform - Noise
Reduction - Click/Pop eliminator, and I remove the pops, and when I
play the clip I can't hear them.

So at this point I've satisfied myself that I can perform some basic
level of audio restoration. What else you do, and what this version of
Cool Edit can or can't do, I don't know.

I could spend a couple of hours downloading this:

Adobe Audition CS6 v5.0.2 build 7 LS7

http://avaxhome.ws/software/software...g/edi3212.html

From he

http://depositfiles.com/folders/IOOO7XHN9

And then follow the instructions to get the hack/crack working, but
that's too much work just to (possibly) prove to you that I can run the
latest version of Audition under win-98.

My cursory searching for the earliest versions of Audition (released in
August 2003) indicates that it was compatible with Windows 98. And even
if it wasn't, it would almost certainly be able to run under Win-98 with
Kex using "win-2000 compatibility" mode.

and there is nothing available that is installable on W98 that
can do all it can do.


Have you tried to install what you have (presumably some version of
Adobe Audition) on a win-98 system with Kex?

The other thing I don't miss about W98 was the (much) more frequent
blue screens (I mean, with all my varous software installations and
customizations), which I rarely see with XP.


Blue screens are the result of trying to run win-98 on ancient hardware
with buggy drivers with 32 mb of ram.

If you've ever installed and run win-98 on any hardware circa 2004 and
later (with 2 ghz P4 CPU with at least 256 mb of ram and a decent Nvidia
or ATI video card) you too would experience trouble-free operation.

I've stated here MANY TIMES that win-9x/me got a bad rap because it was
pushed out to consumers at a time when computing hardware was in a
horrible state. Hard drives did not auto-correct for errors, the new
AGP bus was still being worked out, video card drivers were buggy - and
on and on. By the time XP came out for the general consumer, the
hardware standards were raised far beyond what Microsoft called for with
Win-98.

Far too many games played with user accounts, rights, ownerships
and permissions. I enjoy not having to deal with that **** on
Win-98.


I have Administrator access to everything as the sole user,
so that seems to be a non issue for me


Try to edit the hosts file on a win-7 computer. It's an agonizing
process - even if you ARE the administrator.

And the limited USB and SATA support.


I notice that you had nothing to say about my comments about USB and
SATA support...
  #22  
Old February 19th 13, 12:03 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion,alt.windows98
98 Guy
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 2,951
Default Is there any browser left for Win98se?

Stanley Daniel de Liver wrote:

He already ruled that out. I doubt there's any HTML5 browsers being
written for W98, and even if there was one, I suspect that hardware
from that era would struggle.


There's no reason to be running win-98 on "hardware from that era".

Heck, even I never ran windows-98 on anything less than an 800 mhz P3
with 256 mb ram and 64 mb AGP video card.

My current win-98 systems are based on socket 478 P4 (2.8 ghz) and
socket 775 Celeron D (3.46 ghz) with 1.5 TB sata hard drives.
  #23  
Old February 19th 13, 12:18 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion,alt.windows98
J. P. Gilliver (John)
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 1,554
Default Is there any browser left for Win98se?

In message , 98 Guy writes:
Stanley Daniel de Liver wrote:

He already ruled that out. I doubt there's any HTML5 browsers being
written for W98, and even if there was one, I suspect that hardware
from that era would struggle.


There's no reason to be running win-98 on "hardware from that era".

Heck, even I never ran windows-98 on anything less than an 800 mhz P3
with 256 mb ram and 64 mb AGP video card.

My current win-98 systems are based on socket 478 P4 (2.8 ghz) and
socket 775 Celeron D (3.46 ghz) with 1.5 TB sata hard drives.


My 98SElite system has a 400 MHz processor and 128M RAM; for the very
restricted uses I have for it, it runs fine. (That use is mainly
downloading, so it does go online; it has Firefox 2.x [not KernelEx,
though I have played with that].)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"... four Oscars, and two further nominations ... On these criteria, he's
Britain's most successful film director." Powell or Pressburger? no; Richard
Attenborough? no; Nick Park!
  #24  
Old February 19th 13, 04:22 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion,alt.windows98
Bill in Co
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 701
Default Is there any browser left for Win98se?

98 Guy wrote:
Bill in Co wrote:

I thought I made it clear in my last post that you can't install
any version of FF 3.x without having Kex.


Then he must have KernelEx installed.


If he did, then he could have tried Firefox 10.0.2 (at least). Instead
all he claimed was 3.5.

By "too limited", I meant the bigger picture, not necessarily the
"inherent" limitations of the OS:


Win-98 is inherently a WIN32 OS. What it lacks are the API functions
that have been added to the NT line, and many of the more useful ones
are being replicated by KernelEx, with new ones being added via "stubs".

I can't even install several good (and even older) fundamental
audio and video restoration apps


Heck, even something as good as the near oldest version of Adobe
Audition (which improved on Cool Edit Pro) can't be used,


I've just spent about 15 minutes trying to locate old versions of Adobe
Audition for download - which I can't find.


It can be a challenge, but can reward those who persevere. (Note: 15
minutes doesn't qualify as perseverance :-). But you may be able to find a
cheap OEM version online, if you were so inclined. But if you're not into
audio that much, it probably isn't worth it.

What I can find are various versions of CoolEdit Pro:

http://www.oldversion.com/windows/cool-edit-pro/

I downloaded "Cool Edit Pro 2000 1.1" and installed it, then I installed
the "Cool Edit Pro 2000 Audio Cleanup plug-in 1.1".

After installing the plugin and running CoolEdit, it opens and loads the
wav file "solace.wav" (from the movie "The Sting" ?) - a 10 second piano
clip that contains pops. I fool around with the Transform - Noise
Reduction - Click/Pop eliminator, and I remove the pops, and when I
play the clip I can't hear them.


And it does a fair job at that. But CEP also lacks FSE (frequency space
editing), as I've already mentioned. But its click and pop removal tools
are just fair - there are much better dedicated ones (but not for W98).

So at this point I've satisfied myself that I can perform some basic
level of audio restoration. What else you do, and what this version of
Cool Edit can or can't do, I don't know.


Frequency space editing, and a much better job at removing noise and clicks
and pops (with some other software, and some special restoration plug-ins
for the newer versions of Sound Forge, et al, that won't install on W98).

I could spend a couple of hours downloading this:

Adobe Audition CS6 v5.0.2 build 7 LS7


I wouldn't bother with that bloatware.
Besides which, you'd waste your time, as you've never get it to install on
W98. The newer versions of Adobe Audition are truly bloatware.

http://avaxhome.ws/software/software...g/edi3212.html

From he

http://depositfiles.com/folders/IOOO7XHN9

And then follow the instructions to get the hack/crack working, but
that's too much work just to (possibly) prove to you that I can run the
latest version of Audition under win-98.


And you can't, anyway. You won't even be able to get Adobe Audition 1.5 to
install. (BTDT, even with your vaunted KernelEx). It's a "no go".

My cursory searching for the earliest versions of Audition (released in
August 2003) indicates that it was compatible with Windows 98.


Adobe Audition 1.0, possibly; Adobe Audition 1.5 and above, no way.
Even with your much touted KernelEx, the installer balks, no matter what
compatibility mode or options you select. BTDT.

And even
if it wasn't, it would almost certainly be able to run under Win-98 with
Kex using "win-2000 compatibility" mode.


No BTDT, too. (Who said anything about these apps even being compatible
with Win2000? These apps are too new for both OSs.

and there is nothing available that is installable on W98 that
can do all it can do.


Have you tried to install what you have (presumably some version of
Adobe Audition) on a win-98 system with Kex?


As per above, yes. BTDT.

The other thing I don't miss about W98 was the (much) more frequent
blue screens (I mean, with all my varous software installations and
customizations), which I rarely see with XP.


Blue screens are the result of trying to run win-98 on ancient hardware
with buggy drivers with 32 mb of ram.


I don't think my computer AND the software apps I was playing with at that
time were ancient. They were all of the same vintage. So that's not it.

I did a LOT of experimentation in Win98, if you recall from the newsgroups,
including helping to track down that infamous Win98 windows explorer
"hanging" problem (when deleting a large number of files), which I resolved
by using two IE55 browse DLLs in place of the IE6 versions, if you recall).

If you've ever installed and run win-98 on any hardware circa 2004 and
later (with 2 ghz P4 CPU with at least 256 mb of ram and a decent Nvidia
or ATI video card) you too would experience trouble-free operation.

I've stated here MANY TIMES that win-9x/me got a bad rap because it was
pushed out to consumers at a time when computing hardware was in a
horrible state. Hard drives did not auto-correct for errors, the new
AGP bus was still being worked out, video card drivers were buggy - and
on and on. By the time XP came out for the general consumer, the
hardware standards were raised far beyond what Microsoft called for with
Win-98.

Far too many games played with user accounts, rights, ownerships
and permissions. I enjoy not having to deal with that **** on
Win-98.


I have Administrator access to everything as the sole user,
so that seems to be a non issue for me


Try to edit the hosts file on a win-7 computer. It's an agonizing
process - even if you ARE the administrator.


I can edit the HOSTS file with ease on my XP computer. (Who was talking
about Win7? ICK)

And the limited USB and SATA support.


I notice that you had nothing to say about my comments about USB and
SATA support...


But none of that is as transparent and readily available as it is with
WinXP. Nothing much to add the if you want to spend a bunch of time
and energy trying to get it all to work well in W98, that's your call. I'd
rather have it ALL available at the outset, as I've got enough other things
to pursue. And I sure don't need ANY additional cards or other software or
hardware support gimmicks to get it. And no add ons.


  #25  
Old February 19th 13, 04:24 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion,alt.windows98
Bill in Co
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 701
Default Is there any browser left for Win98se?

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , 98 Guy writes:
Stanley Daniel de Liver wrote:

He already ruled that out. I doubt there's any HTML5 browsers being
written for W98, and even if there was one, I suspect that hardware
from that era would struggle.


There's no reason to be running win-98 on "hardware from that era".

Heck, even I never ran windows-98 on anything less than an 800 mhz P3
with 256 mb ram and 64 mb AGP video card.

My current win-98 systems are based on socket 478 P4 (2.8 ghz) and
socket 775 Celeron D (3.46 ghz) with 1.5 TB sata hard drives.


My 98SElite system has a 400 MHz processor and 128M RAM; for the very
restricted uses I have for it, it runs fine. (That use is mainly
downloading, so it does go online; it has Firefox 2.x [not KernelEx,
though I have played with that].)


I guess for email, that will work just fine. And maybe using EDLIN. :-)


  #26  
Old February 19th 13, 07:30 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion,alt.windows98
Computer Nerd Kev
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10
Default Is there any browser left for Win98se?

On 19 Feb 2013, Stanley Daniel de Liver wrote:

At the moment I'm running XP on a 1GHz machine with 512MB
RAM

[]
Though on the other hand, I've been at work killing bits
of XP I don't like. Most notably (and memorably) I
replaced Explorer with "LiteStep" for window management
and "Gyula's Navigator" for file management. I run the
JayOS Skin for LiteStep which is much more 98ish than the
XP "Classic" theme and _far_ more customisable as well. I
ended up doing the same thing to one of my W98 machines
too.

Thanks for those pointers.

Just what's bad about the explorer? My PC (1G RAM I admit)
running taskmanager shows the explorer task as using 16M.
Not much compared with 65M for Iron (a de-googled version
of Chrome).


Well as I look now, LiteStep is using 11.5MB RAM. I just fired
up explorer (been a long time since I did that last) and after
opening a file manager window and closing it a couple of times
it was sitting hapilly at ~39MB. Mind you as I said before, I
was having quite a bit of trouble with Explorer (I think it
would suddenly go to 100% CPU usage or something like that),
so it may not be the healthiest example.

Perhaps I'm a bit overly sensitive to RAM use, but I like a
minimal background resource usage so that I leave as much
power as possible for the programs I want to use. Of course XP
makes a mess of this philosophy from the beginning, which is
why I use older Windows or Linux on the other machines I use.
I sometimes even go as far as DOS.

--
__ __
#_ |\| | _#
  #27  
Old February 19th 13, 08:07 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion,alt.windows98
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 23
Default Is there any browser left for Win98se?

On Sun, 17 Feb 2013 09:16:53 -0500, 98 Guy wrote:


Why do I not see Firefox 2.0.0.20 in that list?


I have Firefox 3.x installed. It works best of all the browsers I use,
but it's always been the slowest browser to load. K-Meleon always
loaded almost instantly, and had a few features that FF lacks, which I
liked. I still use K-Meleon for weather maps and sites that I know work
on it.


I suggest that you obtain and install a Win-98 API-extender /
compatibility layer developed by a group of enthusiasts called
"KernelEx". This allows Win-98 to run many applications that require
Win-2k or XP, such as many recent versions of Firefox and Opera, as
well as the most recent versions of VLC media player, Java JRE 6, and
Adobe Flash player.

KernelEx can be downloaded from he


I have used KernelEx for at least 3 years!

  #28  
Old February 19th 13, 08:31 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion,alt.windows98
[email protected]
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Posts: 23
Default Is there any browser left for Win98se?

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 09:03:52 -0500, 98 Guy wrote:

Which is only true if you don't have Kex.


Perhaps.


No, it's true.

The last version of Opera that was fully supported on Windows 98/ME is
9.64 (March 2009). The 10.xx versions are generally stable without
KernelEX, except 10.5x and 10.60 (those versions have a bug). The bug
was fixed with version 10.61. You can't install / run version 11 and
higher without Kex.


I used Opera back when I was running Windows 3.x, installed versions
such as 4, 5 and 8 over the years in win95 and 98, and recently
installed ver 10.63, which is the last one that will work on Win98 wiht
KEX, from what I read. Over the years, I have never liked Opera. I
dont like the way it looks, and worse it has always had problems
rendering pages corectly, as well as crashing more often than other
browsers. I only installed the ver 10.63 recently thinking that maybe
they had changed it. I found it was the same thing I disliked years
ago. Even if I was to upgrade my OS, I wont use Opera again. As much
as I dislike IE, Opera was always far worse, and I'd rate it as the
worst browser available. Maybe it's just a personal thing, but the
problems with it exist.

On top of that, there seems to be little support for it. In a rating
website, where they rate browser preferences, Opera came in at the
bottom, (for the more popular browsers). The less popular were grouped
together in a category called "Other". That grouping was rated about
the same as Opera. (below)

I recall when Firefox was the most used browser. They sure have
dropped. Probably because they upgrade it far too fast and keep making
it more and more bloated. Not to mention not supporting older OSs. I
dont know what their last version was that would work on XP, but I bet
their latest dont. I hate bloat!

Here is the link
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_browser_engine
Dated: September 2012
Web browser usage.

Chrome 29.03%
IE 22.54%
Firefox 19.26%
Safari 15.59% (only for Apple computers)
Android 4.59%
Opera 4.53%
other 4.46%


  #29  
Old February 19th 13, 08:42 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion,alt.windows98
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 23
Default Is there any browser left for Win98se?

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 17:54:07 -0500, 98 Guy wrote:

Blue screens are the result of trying to run win-98 on ancient hardware
with buggy drivers with 32 mb of ram.

If you've ever installed and run win-98 on any hardware circa 2004 and
later (with 2 ghz P4 CPU with at least 256 mb of ram and a decent Nvidia
or ATI video card) you too would experience trouble-free operation.


I cant remember the last time I got a blue screen. My hardware is from
2000. It's a 1ghz proc with 512m RAM. What I do get on occasion is a
problem where Explorer crashes when I start moving files around in large
numbers. But that dont shut down the computer. I can still copy, paste
and move files. What also happens on occasion is that if I open too
many things, I get a major system slow-down, icons turn black, and my
memory/system useage goes way down. But this requires about 20 open
webpages, and a dozen other apps. I just need to shut down soem stuff
and everything is fine.
 




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